Navigation Lights

[commanderpete]

Punch out the plastic bottom of the socket. You might be able to pry some of the old brass socket out of the bronze housing, but its probably fused in there. Have to grind it out.

I found some grinding attachments at the Dollar Store to use in a drill.

Or else they might have a dremel attachment of the right size, maybe something like this

[Sprite]

Commander Pete

Fortunately I have the tool which you attached.

To everyone, I have found that if you go to Perko or West Marine for LEDs you will pay top dollar speaking in hundreds for the unit. and forty to seventy for special bayonet bulbs. 8 dollars at superbright. and guys I got it from Boat Works.

John

I thought we were trying to keep things on the cheap!!!!

[Hull376]

Gang, I've been absent from posting. Sorry.

I replaced the bulbs in my Running Lights with double contact bayonett LED bulbs purchased online from www.Superbrightleds.com (see previous posts) I have the original Bronze / Chrome hardware that is pictured way up in the front of this thread. Some tips for those of you contemplating this:

I found that although the Superbright LED #1142 wide angle bulbs fit just fine within the glass colored lenses, they could not be depressed quite far enough into the socket bases to allow me to twist them and lock them in place. So, I had to buy new bulb base inserts, remove the old ones, and install the new ones inserted slightly farther into the fittings. The old bases were soldered into place too low in the sleeve-- ok for a GE-90 bulb, but the collar on the 1142 LEDs bottomed out too soon when pushing them in.

I found that the easiest way to get the old bulb base sockets out of the fitting was to soften the solder, heat up the fitting on the gas range (please hold with pliers or something) until toasty, then put the fitting on the vice and hit the edge of the bulb socket from the inside with a flat blade screwdriver (move around the bulb base edge from the inside). All other methods I tried just wasted time. The stern light was fused together and it still parted fairly easily after the heat treat. Heat is the ultimate. I polished the inside of the fittings after taking the old bases out to make it easy to insert the new ones and allow me to adjust them. And BTW, the old silicone gooped on these fittings was still soft. That stuff will outlast any dinosaur fossil.

I used a little Gorilla glue to hold the new bases in place at the right position (Double contact bases don't need electrical contact from the base itself). Make sure that when the bulb is inserted that you can still put the lens cap in place all the way until it seats with the gasket, that you can still depress the bulb and twist it into place, and that you can still access the two set screws in the bulb base that hold the wires in place.

These lights are very bright and cost $6-$9 depending on the type. Worth it if you need to conserve power and do a lot of sailing at night. Otherwise, buy a subscription to a good sailing magazine and stick with the GE-90s for a buck apiece.

[commanderpete]

Excellent Kent. I'm going to go this route. Those incandescent bulbs are a terrible drain on the battery. What bulb sockets did you end up using?

Anybody have an idea for gasket material? I need something for under the globe. Also under the stern light fixture itself (I notice the steaming light has a gasket under it).

[ebb]

Major marine catalogs think that real sailors don't need to make their own gaskets.
Auto supply has only engine related gasket sheet.
If you invent a company name for yourself (SV Bluenose, eg) I bet you can order from McMasterCarr. They have miles of foam and rubber sheet in all kinds of thickness in synthetic and natural rubber, much of it potential gasket material.
Much you can get in one foot squares, sometimes you have to get a square yard. Some of it is pricey, some very cheap.
High strength Weather Resist 40A (relatively compressible) EPDM rubber 12" X 12", $5.24. might be useful.
EPDM is an inexpensive outdoor rubber. It does not come closedcell foam by itself, but blended with other rubber.
Blends of neoprene,SBR, EPDM is the most common commercial closed cell gasket material with moderate resistance to fuels and weather. EPDM holds up better outside than neoprene (door gasket) but should not be in direct sunlight.

ECH, epichlorohydrin, is a closed cell rubber that will do moderately well with fuel and has excellent resistance to sunlight, heat, oxidation, weather, ozone. Gets my vote for all-round versatility.


Ionomer foam sheet reads good. Doesn't come thinner than 3/16" and they make buoys out of it. You want weather (Ozone, UV) resistant. Closed cell foam would give a firm more compressible gasket. But you have to get rubber that is rated for compression recovery. In other words, material that won't easily take a set and get tired while sealing a fitting. Don't want to compress any foam gasket more than 20% to 30%. MCMCarr has good charts and a bit disappointing explanations of uses.
And its a trip. You can start it on Page 3316!

HYLOMAR UNIVERSAL BLUE is a polyester-urethane gasket dressing that is a NON-SETTING compound you can use around the boat for other things you need to take apart later, and galvanic separation.
Idea is to fill the mini imperfections between the gasket and the fiberglass and/or metal surface. Better leak insurance than just depending on tightening up a dry gasket joint.

Believe it's distributed by Permatex and available in Permatex displays at the auto supply.
It's good for water and fuel and is NOT SILICONE based.

Don't have to scrape this dressing to get it off - easily removed with acetone.
As I see it, while synthetic gasket rubbers are getting longer lived, they still have to be replaced once in a while, especially electric fittings - so why not make it easy on ourselves.

Cut out thinner gaskets with X-acto knife and cardboard patterns. For round gaskets I just got a General gasket cutting tool that does inside and outside diameters at the same time. Some rubber like EPDM slithers around under pressure. You will notice in the online McMCarr catalog that some sheet is textured - this obviously is to create some tooth and to hold gasket dressing better for watertightness.
Foam stays put better for a seal. Dressing helps. You can get some dressing that acts like an adhesive and keeps the gasket from moving. May be necessary on freestanding fittings that capture the gasket only with fastening holes. Want the flange of the fitting to create a groove in the gasket, so some set is needed, that's why I lean toward closedcell foam material.

[Hull376]

Pete,

I used the generic WM bases---- might have been anchor. Try inserting the LED before replacing the bases--- you may get lucky with one being in the right position. Be sure to use a red and a green bulb / port stb, not white. Finally, LEDs are doped semiconductors "P and N" doping material, the electrons jump only one way to product the light. This means that it matters which way the wires are hooked up. Put the LED bulb into the base, then test the wires to see which way will light up the bulb. Switch the wires if it doesn't light. It won't hurt the LED if you get it wrong first try. And be carful you don't drop anything taking things apart---- those little screws will easily find their way into the drink.

[Rico]

Hey all:
I have ordered a selection of different LED replacement lightbulbs from 'Mastlight.com'. Their LED bulbs are 12v DC making them simply 'Plug & play' in most of our basic systems. No need to modify wriring or add gizmos.

I will be trying some different bulb types for the original Pearson factory navigation lights as well as interior lighting and steaming light. (My mast mounted steaming light is not an original fixture.)


I will post the results of my fit test and recommendations based on my results here once I receive the LEDs and try them out. I've been looking for this sort of product to complete my recently re-plated original nav light installation, so I am looking forward to getting these bulbs.

If there is interest in a group buy, let me know and I'll look into this. I had a nice chat with the guy that runs the shop and discussed the possibility of adding a custom page on his web site for Members of the Pearson Ariel/Commander association in order to make the search and purchase simpler & easier.



If you want to look around the website is: http://www.mastlight.com

The website is nicely set-up to search for the type of bulbs needed, and it also lists many replacement bulbs for the most common nav light fixtures out there.

Most importantly, this vendor has insight into the boating and has taken the specific marine use of his LEDs into account (including the right height for the typical fixtures' lens, and degree of visibility) something that most other LED vendors take for granted. (most are set-up to cater to the gaudy show-car/motorcycle, etc. markets...)

In the past, I've asked a few current commercial LED marine nav light manufacturers for help in my desire to retrofit my original fittings with an LED. Several of them stated that it was just impossible, and that I would be non-compliant with the Coast Guard and recommended that I buy their fancy fixtures... (most of which would look silly on a Commander!) even though the acknowledged the market demand for a simple replacement bulb...



Some FYI:

Are LED Bulbs approved by the USCG ?
Following the existing regulations, only the light housing (Fixture assembliess) are subject to an official approval (it must have the right color, be tinted in the mass and resist to ageing). Luminous sources must not get an agreement. However, lights must conform to the International Regulations of the IMO, which specifies the visibility distance of navigation lights.

- Since our lights' degrees-of-visibility are determined by actually blocking out the light from view, (note the wings on the stern light fixture for example) I think that the use of LEDs is perfectly fine in the case of our (or similar) fixtures. If a nav light relies on lens refraction for its precise degrees of visibility, then you might have a issue with the actual location of the light source. Not the case with our fixtures.

- It is recommended that you use COLORED LED bulbs as required for nav lights.(i.e. LEDs that emit RED / GREEN light as opposed to white light)

The reason that the colored LED bulbs are better is that the colored light emitted by the LED is more closely compatible with the tint of the glass /plastic filter thereby allowing MORE of the LED's available light to pass through the filters. (i.e. - they seem BRIGHTER).


As it turns out the original bulbs (incandecent) are: #90 Bulb bayonet type with opposing pins and two terminals on the bottom. Overall length 1-3/8 (Pictured below).
One Mfr number is: 90 12v 6CP - if you want to buy the incandecent version replacements.

[ebb]

Thanks RICO - great info.

Here on the ranch LEDs are going in everywhere. Even had some 120/120s overheating their cans in the kitchen ceiling that were changed out with LED 'bulbs' of equal intensity. Often had to change burnouts, now have lights that essentially will outlast ME.

Have the sneakin suspicion that designed in obsolescence is comming soon.
Manufacturers will have to factor out the 'forever' in LEDs to sell more product.
Maybe NOW is the time to make the change to LED.


Want to have total LED on littlegull. Including navigation.
Have read that under 65 footers are limited to 2 mile lights. I think cruising warrents at least three mile. I'm pretty sure that brighter lights are safer and not exactly measurable. Guess we'll find out.

Thanks for the site to explore.
The Orca $400 LCD TriAnchor Light with Photodiode & Strobe that I last looked at is WAY too pricey - so a incandescent change out in an old style fitting looked pretty good. Have to find out.
Believe that while the LED will last forever it is the wiring and connections that still is un gran problema.
I understand that motoring requires lights at deck level PLUS an all white up top???. Can that be the anchor light?
The Orca site doesn't make clear whether their masthead is compose with white LEDS or colored. Makes sense that a red light should be a red LED, etc.

Check out the Fiji based
www.bebi-electronics.com/reflections.html
They have an innovation on an allround white for the AquaSignal Series 40.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________


Has anybody here converted an AquaSignal 40 series masthead to LED?

Does the BebiElectronics allround white addition seem appropriated to you?

How have you wired it?

Can some sort of strobe function be added to the anchor white light?

[Tim D.]

I have been seeing more and more satisfied Bebi customers. Most have been getting the "Owl" anchor light. When I get to that point, that is the way I plan to go.
I am going to replace the bulb in my masthead (steaming) light with LED

[carl291]

I bought a couple of great nav. lights on EBAY from a company in Sydney, NSW for a pittance really about 20 bucks with shipping. This is for the complete light with the housing and wiring. Painted housing (plastic) stainless was about $45.00
Jag Trading Online was the supplier.
I'll bag a photo if anyone is interested, I think it's a nice looking light.

[Commander 147]

Carl do you have a website link?

[carl291]

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/merchant/jagtradingonline_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_ipg Z

They have a pair ending in 4 hrs. $9 plus shipping, they also have the stainless on auction. The shipping time seemed less than a package from CA to GA.

Hope this helps. Carl

[Commander 147]

Thanks Carl

[carl291]

I just got a EM from Jamestown Distributors about nav. lights on sale,
The Perko lights very similiar to the ones on Pearson boats are $71.97. I don't think they are LED.

[Westgate]

Just wanted to say that we are into our second Orca Marine masthead light (first one went toe to toe with a lightning bolt and lost) and I can't say enough about them. They are very well made and provide a very, very bright light. Arthur's anchor light outshines every other anchor light that we have seen. My wife and I always note after a row ashore if there is a brighter light in the anchorage.....to date we have not seen one. The power draw is minimal and they are simple to install (if your mast is down!).

Yes they are not cheap but I think the old saying about getting what you pay for applies here. I would not hesitate to buy another although I'm hoping that that will never be the case!

I also plan to upgrade the lower steaming lights to LEDS as well. I can run for days using the masthead and not notice a ding in the batteries.

Andrew