Its not even the middle of October!!
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Its not even the middle of October!!
We have 87 degrees with a high predicted over 90 and 70% humidity. Just came back from my grandsons football game where we melted in the stands from the heat. You send us some cold and we will send you some heat and we will both be better off!!!
I'm feeling a little ripped off. First we have the 7th coldest summer on record, and now we're getting December weather in October.
I WANT MY INDIAN SUMMER!!!!
Its only 1700 mile to Belize as the crow flies, I could drive the first third in two days.... how long to sail across the gulf?
World Trade Foundation???:confused:
I feel your pain, disgust, anger, frustration, rage, animosity, resentment, ire, did we leave anything out, Mike? This surely put a big wrinkle in your work plans for this fall! I keep telling myself, just two more winters....but it's hard this early in October, isn't it?
With regards to Belize. Just talked to my friend yesturday and Key Caulker is somewhere you'd wanna strike from your plans this year. San Pedro on Ambergris is a little better but they're hurting too. Anyone not from there has a target on 'em. Reminiscent of the late 80's... Bummer, cuz we wanted to go back this spring. St. John come March? St. Patrick's Day is a hoot I hear.
Hang tough, brother.
What was the size of the your shaft log (g-10 tubing)? I need to order one for my boat and it looks like the outside diameter of your tubing is about the largest you can fit in the boat. thanks mike
Mike,
Sorry for the slow reply. I have not been on the board lately.
I used 1 3/4" G10 with 1/4" wall thickness. McMaster-Carr # 86555K474
I opted for this because;
1, The outside diameter matched that of my shaft log so the rubber tube that connects them seals well.
2, the cutlass bearing (I believe I used a Blackfish) pressed into the I.D. tight enough where no mechanical fasteners or retainers were needed.
I hope this helps, your probably done with the job by now.
Mike
C227
Hooray for me...hooray for The Princess!!!
Boo and I spent our Easter cleaning up The Princess. I got the freeboard and Boo (my wife, the real Princess) scrubbed up the insides. We figured we'd do the decks once she was in the water. we splashed her, then figured we'd bend the sails before we scrubbed the decks. well, so there we were in the water with the sails bent. It was sunny and 60 degees, blowing around 10 knots and no one else was on the lake. ya think the decks ever got scrubbed? We had a wonderful Easter sail. It must be the earliest I've ever been out.
The Princess is riding a strong inch higher after the removal of the compensator ballast. It did not effect the trim at all, you can see she still rides her lines very well.
The dilemma around bow pulpits and stern rails is ongoing for me. I have a bow pulpit on Cup O' Tea IV and it's staying there. But the stern....hmmm.
Sometimes when I'm hanging out over the lazarette fussing with the enginge or rigging or something else and the boat is bucking like a bronco on these Long Island Sound waves - it sure does seem desirable.
At 6'3", guidelines are, for me, something to grab pretty late in the game. Probably on the way overboard and too late to do much good. Practically have to bend in half to reach them. That said, for kid sailors they sure do seem desirable.
So I went online in search of a pushpit. Found one fairly quickly from those boys up in Maine. But...I just can't pull the trigger. There's something about that clean, open Commander stern that just screams Alberg without the extra hardware putting a period on an otherwise never ending sentence.
Ariels, on the other hand, seem more "established" and welcome the extra chromeware.
Just my 2 cents...
Scott
If you have lifelines, you either have to terminate them on the deck at the stern or at a pushpit. The pushpit gives you wraparound coverage.
But, I like easy access at the back of the boat if you dock stern-to The boat has roll on/roll off capabilities. Landlubber guests don't have to climb over the pushpit. Getting on and off the boat is usually the most dangerous part of the voyage for them
If you have an engine on a bracket off the stern then a pushpit would be valuable. And you can mount stuff on it
I like that you could potentially use the pushpit for hanging storage, but I MUCH prefer the pulpit only look (NO push-pit).
As far as the lifelines; I feel that on Commanders / Ariels the lifelines only serve to put you into the water head-first... or to make it more painful to go in!
They somewhat limit your mobility; I typically swing on the outside of the rigging when heading to the bow. This is not so easy with lifelines in the way...
Aesthetically; I think the lifelines detract from the look of these great looking little yachts...
If you have kids it might be different... but I take kids out now and then and they are either happy to stay in the cockpit, or they venture out to explore the bow. In a blow they are confined to the cockpit. In nice weather, I think that a dunking in the water might be a good character builder!
I'm also in the crowd that thinks the Commander shouldn't have to have lifelines or the rear pulpit for day sailing.
But if everyone on board is wearing a life jacket, then even the kids should be taught what the D-ring is for.
It wouldn't take much to get everybody to accept that.
I was just with a bunch of older types on a Triton learning how to set up the spinnaker.
I'm sure that hooking onto a jack line if it had been rigged would have seemed ridiculous or sissy since there already were too many lines to get correct and too many turns to make on the foredeck.
But imco some sort of drill that involved the simple act of clipping on to the jack strap, and unclipping it to a new position should have been included.
There is the argument that falling overboard will teach one to be more careful.
I once met a couple in the Azores who were sailing their 52 foot wooden boat from Canada to the U.K. It was custom built in Canada for them based on in the design of the oringal NINA and the husband will NOT have lifeline installed regardless what the wife said. Bless her heart she went along with it and lived to tell the story. Needless to say the line is beautiful. I don't know what the lifeline will do to the line but I for one will NOT sail across the Atlantic without a lifeline does not matter how pretty the boat is.
This whole discussion reminds me of a Bruce McCall spoof on an imagined WW-II Italian fighter plane design. From the end of the lengthy description:
"A remarkable feature of the plane, considering its fighter designation, was its total lack of armament. The designers successfully resisted all attempts to ruin its unbroken lines with ugly guns."
I am very hesitant to add lifelines to C231, but the added safety for kids on board at anchor, as well as under way, may be the deciding factor, though they are sure to be a nuisance for grown ups. I hope to have all lines to the cockpit anyway, but that assumes nothing ever goes wrong. Maybe Wall Street should have had a few stanchions installed too.....
Frenna, The way Wall Street is behaving with total lack of regard for investers and cries for government bailout, perhaps keel hauling might serve Wall Street better than another lifeline:p
I just finished installing a Hoyt Jib Boom on The Princess.
Pic #1, Not real thrilled on how it disturbs the pretty lines I've been working so hard to clean up, but its only ugly at the dock. It just matches up with the foot of the sail while under sail.
Pic #2&3, I ran the out haul line under decks with the furling line. Its now a continuous loop that runs behind the tiller to a double clutch.(black lines) pull one side to unfurl and the other side to furl with out a pile of line laying about.
Pic #4&5, The self tacking sheeting runs under decks as well, entering through the coach roof then running under the starboard shelves through 3:1 block system then exiting behind the tiller.(white line in pic #3)
What a hoot to sail! The 100% self tacking jib seems perfectly matched with the reduced weight Princess. Very neutral helm and so far I have not missed the power of the 150% as the Hoyt vangs the jib as well as poling it out off the wind.
I'm currently using a jib from a larger boat that I cut down to fit. I've had it on and off a few times to make adjustments. The angles and dimensions are pretty critical as you loose your ability to move a car to change your sheeting angles. I'm pretty happy with the current cut and will use it as a pattern to build a new jib.
Mike
Looks like you found the guy with Forespar to talk to all on your own. I'm glad to see it is working out for you. That boom looks like if the forward hatch was still there it would hit it. Is it really as close to the cabin top as it looks in the picture or is it an optical illusion? Can you control where the end of the boom sits in relationship to the deck with shims under the base?
And speaking of pictures, do you think maybe some of your sailing friends might be willing to take a picture of you while under sail with the Hoyt boom in action?
Princess is Queen of the Fleet I'd say
Flippin' sweet
The first Pearson Alerion Commander. :)
I just found a picture of The Princess in a former life on the Vangaurd site. She looks like she was loved.
We are really loving sailing her with the jib boom... so much fun short tacking in tight channels, around the shoreline or in buoy fields. Also great when there are five or six passengers, no one needs to move or put down their drink when we tack. All the control lines are behind me with the exception of the main halyard.(which may be next to go below decks, maybe an electric winch?)
Jerry, yes I shimmed up the base of the jib boom to clear the coach roof with a wedge of thickened epoxy and milled glass. It would have to be shimmed up further to clear a forward hatch.
MBD, You see simularities to the Alerion??? Huh, I never noticed. What a wierd coincidence.
I'm a little late to weigh in on this topic, but ...
I'm into my season #3 with C74, which has an A4 inboard engine. One of the things I did in season #2 was to take off lifelines and pushpit .... absolutely no regrets. Looks much better to my eye and I never really trusted the lifelines anyway. At 6'1", I can go from a hand on the companionway hatch railing to a hand on a shroud to a hand on the forward hatch, etc. I also took off the cabin top handrails, with no regrets. If I ever really felt I needed the lifelines, I'd be much more comfortable rigging jacklines and a harness.
In general, staying out of Maine waters is a desirable thing.
PJM
Cdr 227, I haven't seen any posts from you on your electric engine, now that you've used it for a while. I'm working on Sirocco and she will be ready for a new engine within the month, but after seeing your posts and admiring that clean install, I have begun to wonder if going electric, rather than diesel, might be a better idea. How has the electric worked out on The Princess? thanks
Jon,
I'm on the second sailing season with the electric inboard and (knock on wood) so far it has been 100% reliable and surpassed my expectations.
We typically get out 2-4 times a week and since we have the electric motor we go out whether or not there is wind. It is very pleasant just tootling along the shoreline or adding a little power if the wind is real light.
I have what I conceder to be a very minimal battery bank, 4 cheap group 27 marine deep cycle batteries, and after 2 years of pretty consistent use I still get about;
1 hour wide open at hull speed or slightly above or around 6 miles. or
2 hours at 4 - 4.5 mph. or
4 hours at 3 mph which is our typical cocktail cruise speed.
There is plenty of space in the boat for a bigger and better battery bank and the range could be doubled with out much more cost or effort. It was my intention to use this small bank of common batteries to determine exactly what my needs were then keep them as a reserve and add a larger bank or just replace them. So far I have not felt the need for any more juice so I will try to get another couple of years out of them then perhaps go to group 31s.
There is plenty of power, I've never been in a position where I wanted more. I typically use around 1/4 of whats available and only use full power when changing directions or stopping when I'm coming into the slip. Great stopping power! Its like having brakes. The motor could handle a more aggressive prop, I max out the rpms at 65 amps and the controller will allow 200 amps. But I can get to hull speed so more bite isn't really needed.
Over all we love the set up and feel it's perfect for the way we use the boat. We are however in a pretty controlled environment being on an inland lake with out tides or currents. We can never get too far from home and can plug in the charger in our slip. I think if you can live with the limited range its ideal.
I've seen the new Electric Yacht package like the one Jerry is installing on Commander 147, I can't wait to compare notes with him when he gets his going. Its a nice package and they started using the same Mars PMAC motor that I installed.
Mike
C227
As a side note I just installed one of the Parson electric outboards on a 22' S2. Tons of power! It again uses the Mars PMAC motor and has a controller which will allow 100 amps. They call it a 4 hp but I think it has all the power of a 4 stroke 6 hp. Nice and quiet. I think it would be great on an Ariel or Commander.
We have been having an amazing fall sailing season so far, compare these pictures to those I posted last fall on around the same dates.
Another sailor snapped these shots of The Princess with her jib boom. (which we LOVE!)
Man, those pics are lovely. I love the jib boom too. Tell me, where did you get it and how much trouble was it to install?
Sirocco, who was supposed to have been splashed in June, is still on the hard. She had a lot more deck problems than anyone suspected but all of that has been repaired and she's been painted. It's my understanding that the marina is reinstalling hardware and then, after all my deliberation over the matter, they will install a new Kubota 14 diesel to replace the Atomic that was pulled earlier in the summer.
I think that I'd love to have that jib boom added to the mix. That just looks like a great way to go.
cheers, jon
Excuse my igornance, but I'm curious how a jib boom works with a foresail larger than the one you're flying. Or is flying a genoa simply not an option with that set up? On Lucky Dawg, my headsail choice with respect to wind conditions - and often the choice is a larger foresail - makes a big difference in our performance.
Yeah! No kidding there, Mike. Last October in Minne-what the #*!! am I doing here-ota was crappy! She looks beautiful out there. I'm surprised we can't see your smile in those photos.
Kyle, your 'J' cant be any longer than your jib boom. But if you doo a lot of tacking I don't see how you could beat having one. Maybe Lucky Dawg can have a asymetrical for those lower wind speeds?
Mike
Your Princess sure is a good looking boat. And thanks for posting the pics with her under sail while using the jib boom. The headsail looks well tuned using the Hoyt jib boom.
Like Lucky Dawg I am curious about how easy it is to use a genoa with the jib boom up there. Have you sailed her that way yet? Did the genoa hang up on the jib boom or did it float over it?
Also you probably don't anchor out much on your lake but I have been concerned about how much the jib boom would be in the way when anchoring out. I suppose it could be say pulled to starboard and secured near the rail for those times but the forward end of it would still be possibly in the way. What are your thoughts on that?
Jon - The jib boom is a very simple install, just locate it around 10% of your "J" back from your head stay (not a critical measurement) pop 5 holes, fashion some sort of shim under it to get it to clear the coach roof and life lines if you have them, install a backing plate and bolt her on. I complicated the install a little by running the control lines and sheet under decks but that wasn't really rocket science either. I will be glassing in some structure over the winter to help support it but I need to make some decisions about some other modifications first. Any retail outfit that handles Forespar products can order you one, I have an account with them and I could order you one and have it drop shipped to you.
The sail did take some screwing around. As I mentioned before the dimensions are fairly critical as you cannot move a car to change your sheeting angles, you can change the angles by playing with your hoist, but you need to be pretty close. I have a small repair loft at the marina so I cut down an old jib from a larger boat and sailed with that making some modifications and mental notes. While I can run a sewing machine and know a little about sail shape I didn't want to loft the sail myself. I had Sailrite design and cut the sail to my dimensions and I stitched it together. As you can see by the pictures the shape is pretty good.
Kyle and Jerry - I have not flown a genoa on The Princess since I installed the jib boom, No reason I couldn't although obviously you wouldn't be using the jib boom, but I'd have to drop the jib, fold it, hoist the genoa. run the sheets,... all in all it could be an exhausting five minutes and if you haven't pick up on it yet I'm a pretty lazy sailor. I'm sure there is a better chance of fouling your genny sheets when tacking but usually you can work out a system once you find out where the problems lay. You would probably want to keep an eye on your lazy sheet and keep some tension on it.
We do anchor out quite a bit, no problem, (see pic #1 above) in fact the jib boom gives you something to hold onto when you're on the bow.
I took a last minute trip out to Annapolis last Thursday to check out the big show. We flew into DCA and rented a car getting to the show around noon and left for our return flight at 5:30. (flight benefits, the one advantage to my early{read forced}retirement from the airlines where I was a mechanic for 20 years)
With only five and a half hours to take it all in it was a bit of a whirlwind. We saw about 90% of it but only stepped on a few boats that struck our fancy.
My favorite.... The Morris 42. This is the perfect combo daysailer/weekendeer for Boo and I. Sleek, beautiful, great fit and trim, easy single hander, great line management. The open floor plan below maximizes the space with an open V berth. A great husband/wife light cruiser. It'll never drop down into my price range, but one must be able to dream. Some day, maybe within 10 years, after we recover from putting our two sons through college we hope to have a boat in a warm place and do some island hopping and coastal cruising. Maybe I can find an old wore out Hinkley Sou'wester and implement some of the innovations from this boat.
Favorite knock about....The CW Hood 32...Wow! (pic #1) followed by the Rustler 24 (pic #2)
Comparable to The Princess??? As I've stated before we built The Princess to match our very specific wants and needs to sail our home waters. We love it, its perfect for how we use the lake....but what if price was not a factor, whats out there that would suit our needs?
I saw 3 boats that come close;
#1, The Harbor 25. (pic #3) This is the closest thing I saw to The Princess: I'm sure it could be custom ordered with an electric motor to replace the gas saildrive, the cuddy is of similar size and the fit and trim is better being it has a liner although the head set up left something to be desired. It is well rigged, including a jib boom although the line management is mostly above decks and not within reach of the helm. Its almost a good looking boat, but over all I'd call it a swing and a miss. Horrible stern!
#2, The Alerion 28. (sorry, no pic)Good looking boat. Saildrive with small diesel. Easy single hander, the best jib boom set up. Although again not all the lines are with in reach of the helm and most are run above the decks It's nice having the low coach roof as it has great visibility however I know Boo would not like the crouching headroom and lack of privacy not to mention having a porta-potie instead of a head.
#3, The Morris 29, (pic #4) Wow, great boat, beautiful!!! Self tacking jib, Asymmetrical spinnaker with a dousing chute, line management is excellent with all lines run under decks and great placement at the helm, small diesel saildrive, very comfortable cockpit. Again, I know Boo would be disappointed below decks, there is a head, but no headroom and no privacy.
Honorable mention. The E33 and the Alerion 33 are fantastic boats, both went back to tiller steering, have great line management and huge comfortable cockpits. The extra size really helps out below decks, although because of the extra 7' one cannot really include them in the comparison.
So, although these are overall some fantastic boats and I'm sure they point higher and sail faster, my feeling is that The Princess reigns supreme. I just need to spruce things up a little below and make some decisions about the whats and hows for my off wind sails.
Mike
Thanks for the report for those of us that could not make it all. Good looking boats and interesting to read your comments on them.
Thanks
An Alerion 28 snuggling up next to The Princess
Maybe I can push off the inevitable a week or two and get a couple more sails in before the ice.
Mike , Would you have a bow stem fitting lurking in your parts inventory for an Electra/Ensign? Thanks, Carl
[QUOTE=Commander227;22327] And then there was one. [QUOTE] When I look at your docks completely full, the Princess is the only yacht I see.
Sorry Carl, I'm short one myself. Zeke @ Ensign Spars can hook you up with a new one. Not sure of the cost.
Thanks Kyle, I miss her! Here it is, 6pm, its been dark out since 4:30, I'm probably in for the night, waiting for a foot of snow to dump on me tomorrow then a high of -2 on Sunday with a wind chill of -30. Alas, a few short months ago I would just be loading up the cooler heading out for a balmy night sail. Woe unto me. I am distressed; sad; grieved.
Mike
Ok Thanks Mike, Zeke gets about $245 for the original looking one.
Hey Mike,
From your list in post 91, it looks like a single gallon each of Duratech and Awlgrip was required for your deck priming and painting? I'm assuming it was the Duratec White Vinyl Ester Primer. I'd prefer not to overbuy, of course. The prices look like it was a gallon each unless you get a great deal at Tonka Bay. Also, it looks like you used a Dremel for attacking your crazing - is that accurate?
Thanks,
Kyle
p.s. (Sorry to trouble you with all of these questions. You seem to knock out the grandest of undertakings with speed and efficiency, so I'm trying to utilize your mojo! On the Phoenix, you mention a blue vinylester paste. Could you tell me about that briefly? The crazing on Lucky Dawg is pretty extensive and that looks to fill nicely. I imagine routing out the crazing and filling with this prior to priming.)
I stripped down The Princess's mast this spring to do a few mods. I had to drill out a fair amount of the screws and the mast base took me over an hour to remove with a torch and slide hammer.
I wanted to run the halyards internally. I just took out the large main halyard shieve and used Ronstan blocks in the slot. The spinnaker halyard runs to a block on the mast head fitting, then dives into the mast a foot or so from the top.
I pop riveted 1/2" pvc waterline inside of the mast through some of the holes for the old sail track for a wire chase. I did not want the wires to get fouled up with the new internal halyards. I also did not want the wires banging against the inside of the mast.
The mast has had its share of hardware and antennas bolted to it over the years so I had a buddy weld up the extra holes. I had the mast re anodized but I was unhappy with the results so I painted it with left over Awlcraft from the deck paint job. I found a place that would do the anodizing for $50. The problem was that the rosette welds which disappeared completely after I sanded them down showed up vividly after the anodizing. the mast also had a slight green hue to it.
I replaced the sail track with Harken micro traveler track and added a track to the front for a spinnaker pole. I lashed an old traveler car to the sails head board and stitched plastic slides on the rest of the sail to fit the track. I can use the Harken batt car system on my next mainsail. I ran the track down the mast low enough so the boom slides on the same track. I had to fabricate a new goose neck fitting.
Pic #1 Welding up holes
Pic #2 The yellow line through the clutch is the jib halyard, being I have a roller furling jib there is no need to have a full halyard sitting on the mast all summer so I just attach extra line when I'm going to drop the sail.
The other line is for the internal spin pole topping lift.
Pic #3 Main and spinnaker halyards.
Pic #5 Mast head
Beautiful work!
I've procrastinated on rigging-up for my spinnaker... But with the wind blowing here, I have not been so eager to try & fly the kite!
Mike, Here's a lead on a Commander..... 1965 Pearson Commander 26 - Please Contact (Dallas)
Nice mods to the big stick, Mike.
Hey, what a coincidence! I was just shopping for exit plates a couple of days ago! I decided to nix the cast mast head (and spreader sockets) and try to find the best compromise in designing a new welded top piece. We're going to accomodate spare halyards and that pretty much relagates us to internals as I don't want a mess of lines slapping the mast. I'm diggin' where you're going with the foresail halyard. What do you use to attach your...extension? Just tie them together? Mechanical?
Did you do your own patching there? We could use a bit of filling here too. And with sheaves that are a smaller diameter than the originals we are going to have that inch and a half by five inch hole to fill in on the top.
Anyway, it's always good to see some photos of your work and I can't wain to see The Princess in person.
Oh yeah, nice gybe and nice looking asym. Is that an 'inhouse' sail?
Carl, thanks for the lead...the boat is beautiful! They are touch with each other so I hope they can hammer out a deal and we can get another Commander in our little fleet.
Tony, The Ronstan blocks I used fit nicely in the big slot from the main shieve. I don't know why you could not just stack a couple up to get your extra halyards.
I will strip an inch or two from The bitter end of the jib halyard and whip in a thin loop that I can tie a length of Spider wire or other thin cordage to raise and lower the jib.
Mike
227
I don't see how the Princess could be further improved, but you'll think of something
Queen of the Fleet I tell 'ya...Queen of the Fleet
I concur. That mast renovation is just plain sick.
Your Welcome Mike, I wish I could quit looking though, LOL I just bought this; http://www.sailboatlistings.<wbr>com/view/23283 I bought a 2 cylinder Yanmar a couple of weeks ago and got on board a Triton undergoing a refit , and instantly loved the interior room. Also got to look at the thickness of the hull in several places where through hulls were located, the mininum was 5/8" with bulk being 3/4" . This was on #636 so I'm hoping the same crew laid up this boat #705. The one I bought is supposed to be a one owner boat who died and the family was trying to sell this boat for a ridiculous price. The yard finally stepped in wanting their storage fee and ended up with the boat. 706 has to be right at the end of the run for the Triton. With only 4 stanchons and 4 shrouds water intrusion should at a mininum . The decks are solid and only one soft spot at the rear of the cockpit
Mike,
I think stacking the blocks in that slot may be strong enough for headsails. I thought having a 3/8" bolt through the center of the sheaves would handle the loaded stress of the main halyard better long term. My rationale was, we are getting away from the cast aluminum fittings, why not 'two birds-one stone'.
Do you think the mast would have to be reinforced around the slot? If so, how would you proceed? You know-What Would Mike Do? ;)
Mike Don't forget Chance is still trying to sell his Commander, with a new trailer
Commander #256 (Ceili)
The Princess could still use some help down below...some cabinets, board and batton head liner and such...in my minds eye I see Ta Shing Panda, but in my heart I know it will look like a 7th grade shop project. Finish carpenter I ain't.
Tony, why do you want to ditch your cast mast head fitting? Or do you just mean the big shieve? I tried to find some info on main halyard loads when I was choosing my blocks. Suprisingly I found most people figure it is equal to the outhaul loads. I know, it doesn't seem right and I'm not sure I believe it. I think the blocks I used had about a 600lbs working load. I'll let you know how they hold up. Of course we are building boats for different purposes you and I.
When you coming down for a sail?
Carl, keep the leads coming. I know they have talked to Chance, they may circle back to him. The owner of the boat out east that has been restored hasn't settled on a price yet. Also I heard that Sailorliz's boat is back on the market.
Your new Triton looks great. But Dude, you need to stop this ADD boat buying and settle on one boat!!!! How many are in your yard now?
Mike, I swear everyone is the last, 3 Electras, 2 Ariels, 1 Triton. The last Electra I got to too late, the owner whacked the keel off for the lead, but I did get a very nice mast and the bow stem fitting that I needed for the rescue of another Electra I rescued in CT,which will float this summer. the boat price was $250 including a new head sail, good coamings winches etc. etc.. Who could say no to that? At least this boat was only 90 miles from home. Excluding the Triton the rest have been either I rescue them or it's to the scrap yard. It is getting out of hand! LOL, Time to get on the water! The Triton will get a necessary refit of items to make it a safe passage maker and it will be in the Bahamas next Winter. If you know someone who wants a major Ariel project boat let me know, no interior , inboard model, all components included no engine.
Carl you are the absolute greatest:D
ebb, Thanks, These boats are national treasures
Tony, LOOK!!!! a blank canvas for you, the artist! Ariels are very roomy when they are hollow!:cool:
So I raced The Princess a couple of weeks ago with the new asymmetric spinnaker... it went up slow as there was a ride in the halyard, it filled before I could get the tack line in hard so I had to pull really hard. I think I cursed. we gybed at the reach mark and the lazy sheet grabbed the neck of my beer bottle and knocked it over. I think I cursed again. As I doused at the leeward mark and the kite buried my poor sweetheart. I think she cursed. I was heading back to the windward mark with 460 sq/ft of sailcloth, 40' of tackline, 120' of spin sheets and 35' of halyard on the cockpit floor. My wife looked at me and said "this isn't very civilized". You know, she was right.
Here is my solution:
Facnor FX-1500 Code Zero furler
18" bow sprit
Under deck furling line
Believe me. This is a MUCH more civilized way to go downhill.
Mike sees a problem and whips out a solution in a flash. Might you consider fixing the healthcare system?
Mike,
I am so sorry to read of your mishaps! The horrid sound of a beer bottle bounding loosely around the cockpit and careening out of control just ahead of and out of reach of the hand had to be unbearable. Your wife was right, as I'm sure you realized immediately. After watching the video clip of your first gybe, which appeared flawless, one could only surmise that others to follow might be less 'graceful'.
Timing is working out great for me thanks to you. I have been drawing lines and cutting out ptterns for a bowsprit with the main focus being anchor rollers. So I have been leaning a little more toward resistance to a downward pull. But I have also tossed around the idea of a tack for an asymetrical cruising chute out there too. A fulrer is a bit more than I was planning but it makes perfect sense for 'Princess'. You nailed the proportions! It looks great. As though it was there all along.
So I gotta ask. Could you do a little write-up about materials, construction and what not? Did this set-up change whats going on at the mast head?
Standing by,
Tony G
P.s. About that summer sail...we just moved, again. PIA! The upshot is we down sized again, but we're still loaded down with enough posssions for a 32-35 ft boat. We're getting there! Belize 2013!
Tony,
To make room on the masthead I just drilled and tapped for three 5/16" bolts deep into the top of the cast masthead and bolted on 2' 12ga. X 3/4" stainless square tube. I have the aft end sticking out so I can move my backstay to it and get a larger roach on my next mainsail.
(anyone want to buy a two year old main after this season?)
The sprit was a pretty simple addition. two pieces of 3/4" marine plywood bonded together. I picked this dimension simply because that matched the rubrail. it is through bolted with stainless threaded rod with the nuts counterbored and the rubrail covering them. it was installed with 5200.
The bobstay tang is just bolted through the bow. The way I see it, the sprit is mostly experiencing compression loads and slight side loads. My only engineering was to look at how flimsy a old Catalina 30 sprit is and build mine a little stronger. That sucker has been carrying a big old masthead 150% genoa for 30 years without any problems.
Mike,
I've pretty much been blown away with what you've accomplished on your stretch Ensign! So I've had to keep my flapper shut.
And having read your description of that amazing bowsprit addition, in terms of materials, it is obvious that the bowsprit is integral with the toerail.
It certainly looks like you didn't changeout the original bow fitting - correct?
If so, then you must have added your ply stack in a kind of fork.
In other words you would have had to dap 1 1/2" deep into the flat area the bow fitting occupies by carving away the sides to land the extension. How much original material was removed?
Don't know if that is clear, but can you please explain how the connection was made?
What you have there I never would have conceived. Honest, I have stacks of info on every kind of bowsprit, from spruce, to metal, to carbon, that we might have expected to see on The Princess if we knew it was coming.
I also want a bowsprit on litlgull (A338) and have assumed from the beginning that it had to be a 3' POLE extension. Maybe not, now!
I have made two sprits, one of wood, one of aluminum, and both ended up too heavy in my mind. And cannot be installed.
Your invention is in keeping with the impressive and clean stripped-down day sailor The Princess has become.
I scrolled out a plywood V-shaped concept sprit in the beginning that more or less took its shape off the inside of the toerails, skirted the bow fitting, and terminate 3' outboard. Maybe I should go back to that.
Am persuaded anyway that original ideas, the ones you didn't think too much about, are probably the right ones.
I bought a used screecher from Bacon on impulse - just because I was totally impressed with the concept of the furler being integral with the sail. Don't know much more really, but now I understand it's a Code Zero I should be planning on. Screechers are cut for trimarans.
Why do you believe the sideloads are so light. Is it your sailing location? Plus the length of the sprit?
Do know that what I'm asking litlgull to do is very different from The Princess.
Any bowspeit on a cruiser has to be involved in anchoring.
SO, HOW did you attach The Princess' pretty beak.:cool:
Thanks!
Ebb -
Imagine cutting the neck off this Flying Wedge guitar and trimming out the crotch to provide 1/4" clearance for the stem fitting. The inside surfaces of the tines could be beveled to match the shape of the hull/deck joint. Then if your lovely assistant were to hold it firmly in place (paying particular attention to keeping it in line with the shear) you could drill two holes using a 12" drill bit through a tine, the bow and, if you didn't bury too much of the bit in the chuck, out the other tine. Threaded rod could then be passed through these holes as a method of attachment. Of course I cannot see the harm in glassing in some blocking to the inside of the hull/deck joint or over-sizing the attachment holes and filling them with a stout epoxy mix of some kind. I guess pre paint job I could see myself glassing the Flying Wedge to the hull, but installing it with liberal amounts of 3M 5200 would perhaps give you the confidence of permanency you are likely looking for.
As the unmolested stem fitting and forestay are actually doing the work of keeping the mast up, one could look at a total structural failure of the Flying Wedge or its attachments as "trivial" or an "annoyance of sorts".
As you said Ebb, our boats are being put to very different uses. Given the fact that I can never be farther than 6.5 miles from my marina or half that to the nearest shore I can proceed with this sort of thing much more lightly and with much less fore thought than those of you who will actually go somewhere in your little boats. I think to add ground tackle to the sprit you would want a stay to the masthead to counter the bobstay.
Mike
C227
P.S. Good news!!! we have another Commander coming to our neck of the woods. A fellow who lives down the shoreline a mile or two from the marina found a nice fresh water boat from Cleveland on ebay. He is not sure of the hull # yet but it has the old style. companionway.
Mike, I was watching that Comm. on Ebay .... not to buy, but to see where the price went, that is a nice looking and equipped boat , glad it's going to a good home. Carl
Found a vintage Electra Flying Wedge but they wanted $350 for it,
so I may go with carbon fiber or maybe even G-10.
Trying to think how to connect the strings,
thought they might do double duty for the bob stay.
I can sing along to Swing Low Sweet Chariot going into a chop!:cool:
I can't think of many better uses for a vintage Gibson Flying V guitar than as a bowsprit on a Commander plying the waters of the land of ten thousand lakes, except.....
http://youtu.be/wdDRCIEEZ3w
Mike , here's a $999 commander on ebay now.... in NJ second time it's run the course
<table width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#efefef"></tr><tr bgcolor="#efefef"><td>1967 26 ft. Pearson Sailboat</td></tr></tbody></table>
I am also a Commander owner (#20) from the Cleveland Yachting Club, OH, and have a question about whether you still have the hinges from your hatch which you removed several years ago. The hinges on my engine well cover have been damaged and I'm looking to find replacements. (The part that connects to the deck).
I can't help you but I know that Chance Smith, owner of Cieli, had problems which he solved finding replacements for the lazerette hinges on his boat. you might look him up in the members list and email him for help. I know there is a left and a right hand version; they are not interchangeable.
Commander 20 if you can't find anyone with some here is a possible option.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...me=Hatch+Hinge
Commander 20,
I sent my hinges off to someone else on the board.
We are going to remove the outboard well on another boat this winter. (157 from Cleveland as well) I'll ask the owner if he is willing to send the hinges off to you.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm following up on a couple leads. Really appreciate all the support.
C 157 docked right across from me at the Cleveland Yachting Club for many years! Small world to think that C 20 might someday wear Job Cite's hinges. The former owners have some history on 157 if anybody's interested.
Pfeilclan,
I'm sure John would love to hear about her past. He is willing to give you the hinges.
Send me an email with your address and I'll send them off to you.
Did you guys at CYC have a Commander fleet? It seems many have come from there.
Mike
C227
The Princess served as the backdrop for some Brooks Brother catalog photos this week.
The producer said she'd send me the finished pictures.
The Princess received $350. for "location Fees"... I wonder what she'll do with the money.
Northern Minnesota is an interesting place to choose for an outdoor sailing shoot in mid April! That must have been a BB whim, not a plan from last Fall.
I'm sure you'll find something fantastic to do with your $350.
Well ya don't see much of The Princess, and I thought they were shooting stills for a catalog but here is the ad.
http://youtu.be/VIxElBSPkSA
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VIxElBSPkSA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Mike, Lowes or Home Depot (can't remember now) used my farm house for a Halloween TV ad one time shortly after we bought the place. They spent 2 days adding props to the yard and house and one full day of shooting video. It ended up a 60 second commercial and about as much of the house was in the ad as the Princess is in this video. I had to go to work the day they filmed but was told the whole little community turned out to watch the shoot. With what they spent on my little 60 second spot it is no wonder movies cost millions to make.
Can you tell me how you terminated the white rubber Eagle moulding on the Princess? Don't know if you shaved it down on either end, or... I am trying to reuse the orignial aluminum moulding to fit to it - as it is made to accept. In scratching my head about how to proceed, it has hung out in my garage for over a year not being addressed! Any pointers or detail pictures would be great.
Thanks,
KW
Kyle,
I just trimmed the aft ends to match the profile if the transom and butted it up against the stem fitting up front. I smeared a little 5200 around to fill the gaps and make it look like I did a good job of trimming to fit and let it go at that. Great thing about boats... They only have to look good from fifty feet to look perfect!
Mike
The Princess and her sister downwind during the Burton Cup this summer.
We were overlapped for over 5 miles!
Upwind at the Burton Cup
Cool. That pic makes The Princess look like a 30 footer!
That's exactly so! 30' or mo' Sleek!
Like to see something on the cyrano.
Still feels like winter here in Minnesota... Freezing rain and snow for most of this week, highs in the 30s and low 40s, night time lows below freezing. We still have over 24" of ice on the lake. But we've had some nice days, the days are getting longer and spring will come.
Big changes for me, I resigned as manager or SYC last fall and will soon be selling my % to my partner. (Lesson learned, never a minority partner be.)
I am having rotator cuff surgery next week, so with one arm and no shop I brought The Princess up to Bob's shop to have him do the spring tune up. On the list is the bright work which really needed to be done last spring. Recoat the bottom, I got four years on the Vivid bottom paint but that should have been done last spring as well. I noticed last fall that water was getting into the cockpit sole core around my rudder post. I caulked the joint to get me through the year but now I'll have Bob open it up and repair it properly. There are also four years worth of nicks and scratches I'll have him tune up.
With the slow recovery from shoulder surgery I'm sure to be truly "single handing" a lot this summer. The Princess's simple rigging will be even more appreciated.
There will be 5 Commanders on the lower lake this summer and there is some talk of informal One Design racing. We'll see if that pans out.
Mike
Sorry to hear your shoulder is giving you issues. I had that surgery done several years ago and it went surprisingly well. I think I even surprised my surgeon when I went back for a follow up and he wanted to see what range of motion I had after the arm had been in a sling. I did not want to have my shoulder freeze up by being immobolized for a long time so I would occasionally take my arm out of the sling and work at my desk with it out of the sling. I did not push it but just got some movement going so it did not freeze up. Seemed to help.
You know all this time I've been working on Destiny I had stuff sitting in the aft end of the cockpit so I did not walk on the cockpit floor in that area until recently. It pretty much ticked me off when I felt the mushy floor there also. So While I do the elec. installation I will also be recoring the cockpit sole. Silly me I thought I was done with recoring work.
Hope both you and Princess heal flawlessly!
Hey Mike - Best of luck on the minor repairs /tune-up you and the Princess are getting... And best of luck on the new ventures! Let us know what you are up to.
Cheers!
Hey Mike,
Had my rotator cuff repaired on 2/12/13 and like Jerry it went surprisingly well. This is my second round, the first being 8 years ago. In addition to this surgeon gloriously (for me) using a nerve block that rendered my arm 100% numb as a 2x4 for about 18 hours - he also ordered an cold compression contraption like the one below for me to use and it was my best friend for 2 weeks - especially when sleeping. It was about $400 to rent, but SO worth every penny. 43* water circulating through a firm hug around my shoulder for many of those initial hours kept the swelling at bay. My first surgery recovery with no initial nerve block or ice machine was really, really painful, but I took only ibuprofen for this one!! 8 weeks post surgery and I'm just now allowed to start using very light resistance with my physical therapy protocol. Like Jerry, I released myself from my sling regularly after a couple days, but it is really easy to accidentally use that arm like it's functional. When you start to feel good at about 4 weeks, is apparently the critical time that most people re-tear. Resist the urge, Man. It is slow, but you should be good to go at 3 months. Your 24" of ice might be melted by then.
Attachment 8875
This is the one I had: http://www.thermotekusa.com/md_vascutherm.php
Perhaps one of our last sails of the year in shorts and tees last night. High 80s, 10 knots breeze and a lake devoid of powerboats. Life is good.
Okay I'm officially jealous.... I've been working 7 days a week for 5 weeks now and unable to even touch Destiny. I need a life......
Beautiful night. Light wind, close reaching under code zero, migrating pelicans...
You live a charmed life, Mike.
Another great sail last night, beautiful sunset at the same time as a full moon rising. Blowing a perfect 10 knots, a nice cheese plate, hoppy IPA, Acustic Greatful Dead playing and my arm around my sweetie.
The Princess is comming out of the water on Saturday as we will be traveling in the beginning of October so we have been happy for the warm nights.
Don't know, but I can see a monster head in the twinkling !:eek:
So sad to call it early this year.
The Ensign in the picture, Tranquility, is my Dad's boat that he bought new in 1965 and has raced every year since. Dad worked for Honeywell as a EE and bought the boat with his overtime earnings while working on an escape system for one of the Apollo missions. ($2,200. w/o sails) the mission he worked on landed in the Sea of Tranquility on the moon, giving her her name. six of us kids learned to love sailing on this boat. Dad would let us take her out by ourselves when we turned 13 if we could pass his test. In those days before jet skis it was a thrill. Great lessons on independence and responsibility.
We had our last Ensign race last Thursday. At 85 dad no longer sails without a crew so we pulled her early as well. It was nice to get them cleaned up and put away in nice weather.
Not sure why the pictures are upside down...
Mike
I grew up in Wisconsin and moved to Florida in 1977. It is really easy for me to lose track of how short your season up there is. Here in Florida we have an official sailing season that is more like 6 months but it is possible to sail year round. You just have to live close enough to the boat to get out in the summer when the weather allows. But when Destiny goes back in the water she will stay there 9 months out of the year or the mirror opposite of your situation. We should turn into snow birds and go back and forth with the weather!!!!
Finally got around to cleaning up The Princess the other day. We have had an awful and very late spring. You just gotta love that Awlgrip paint! It's been years now and look at that shine.
After leaving the marina business I am returning to the buoy I kept my Ensign on for 10 years. It is only 2 blocks from my house and a heck of a lot cheaper than a slip. I'll be setting up a generator to charge the battery bank now that I don't have shore power. If you look close you can see her twin C157 down the shore line.
It would seem that The Princess took a knock on the snout by a gravel truck over the winter. Half of her bow sprit was cracked off when I removed her cover. I built up another with MDO plywood, coated it with epoxy and reprinted. This time I installed her with epoxy and 406 filler. I had the last one thru bolted and glued on with 5200 as it was a bit of an experiment and I wasn't sure I'd keep it. Now I'm sure.
We've had one nice sail so far and are hoping for many more this summer.
Great sailing over the Forth, we are finally getting a little summer weather. We are coming off the rainiest June in history, the lakes are at record levels. As a result an emergency minimum wake rule has been set for all the Metro lakes for the last two weeks and it is expected to remain in effect thru July!!!! As you can imagine power boat traffic is down about 50% and the water is nice and flat. Super pleasant out there!
Wow, what a great shot Mike!!! The picture of The Princess is also looking pretty good. She looks almost like you just finished painting her! BTW I replied to your PM.
Hey Mike,
Saw this and thought of you. Your next electric conversion. http://www.zelectricmotors.com/
Attachment 9306