Enlosed Head?

[mbd]

Have any of you renovation/restoration wizards put an enclosed head in your Ariel?

Is this question just too stupid? Is that why I couldn't find any kind of reference to an enclosed head through the "search" feature? Just curious...

Mike

[c_amos]

While not truly enclosed, you might get some ideas from the P-26's layout.

http://dan.pfeiffer.net/p26/boat_in.htm

http://dan.pfeiffer.net/p26/headcvr.htm

http://dan.pfeiffer.net/p26/in_gut.htm

[ebb]

dan.pfeiffer: very clever fellow, great site. great craftsman, generous, obviously drinks good beer too.
P26 has a 21.7 foot waterline, that's three more than an A/C, and add a little more depth and girth in inches than our pony. Just enough room to create a WC.

But, getting the head out of the Ariel V-berth would be wonderful, wouldn't it? That 18' foot waterline makes us a smaller boat than the 20' Flika.

"Excuse me dear I have to take our bed apart to take a dump!"

There just isn't the space below to give up to a carpentered room that will be used for 1/2 an hour a day. Still, I can imagine less massive folk than myself squirreling in a locker to starboard of the steps (replacing the icebox) that could contain a head (but maybe not the head of the thinker there upon) - and also double as a wet loicker. Multi-use! These days you have to have a holding tank, pump and tubes, and so forth, and that couild all, possibly, be tucked in under the bridge deck. Possibly.

Could take space amidships for the head, but it wouldn't feel good to have the minimal cabin space there blocked off - and the deadlights would be a problem. So, either side of the companionway is about the only way I can see it. And the deadlights are still a design problem in regards to a tight vertical enclosure. The slack bilges of the A/C makes it nearly impossible to get sitting room on your Lavac unless it's mounted close to the centerline.

Depending on the kind of use for the boat, I know I have decided to keep the head as designed (but trade it for a composter) and for extra privacy have a seated bucket or a small portopotti in the cockpit. If the cockpit can be set up for camping, it becomes another valuable privacy space.

Keep tuned to the Gallery - you never know who will show up with a real cool innovatioin! Boats that have been renovated represent an extraordinary amount of thinking by the owner. Planning, trial and error, research, rejection, installation, bucks, compromises. genius, etc. There are a lot of clues in a boat that has really come together.

[mbd]

I guess a more comparable boat than the P26 would be the CD 25D, also designed by our venerable Mr. Alberg. That design sacrifices the entire v-berth for the head...

I'm trying to think ahead to what it will be like with two toddlers and the wife. Cozy to say the least. But the reality is, we'll be mostly day sailing. And when we do over nighters, the bucket in the cockpit sounds like a much more ventilated and private setup anyway.

Sheesh! I don't even have an Ariel yet and I already need a bigger boat!

[Tony G]

What a stinker. :D Personally, I've sat in just about every spot, direction and orientation inside 113 trying to find an area we could close off for meditation of this type. Crazy, contorted positons to move a bowel in. I've come to the conclusion that it was in the spot it was in for a good reason. Knobby head and bloodied ears. Even trying to 'scoot' it over a foot and a half like the CD25D puts you in the fetal position. By the companion way is still pretty tight.

If you really think you need a bigger boat, the sou'wester 70 is a nice step up.

[ebb]

Right! You and yours and two tods are going down to the boat for some camping out. The excitement that's in the minimalizing. Packing the basket, frying the chicken. Roughing it. There are sailboats and there are sailboats - A/Cs love kids, are kind and forgiving, are exciting to ride, and get you home again. So I hear, really, personally being 180 degrees aweigh. Gee! I envy you. I envy the kids learning to sail so young.

Wouldn't you agree that an Ariel is more accessable and friendly than even a slightly larger boat? You guys could look for an A-30, if you're full keel, or that P26. they have followings, you know, folks that care and talk about them. That makes them more special. If only I was a kid and asked to take the tiller for the first time, and could feel the Ariel stirring under me, a mixture of dread and exhilleration building......

Maybe you are already talking with Bill ('willie') on the board here who is in the same boat as you, familywise.

And, naturally, I believe the Ariel is the best little singlehander, a movable omphalos, a quiet spot to observe the world, get unstressed, have a beer. Hope you find one that's ready to go. :D

[mbd]

Ebb, many thanks for the encouragement and kind words. I'm hopefully closing in on one of these near perfect little boats. And I'm anxiouly awaiting the day I can order up my Maintenance Manual and announce to the board - "I bought it!".

I've considered the A30's - love 'em. Tritons as well. But somehow the Ariels just seem "right" to me - I can't explain... Manageable yet seaworthy. Shallowish draft but full keeled (for coastal cruising and stability). Smallish yet big enough to have standing headroom below. ...and perhaps even an enclosed head.

Yet I digress. Pictures to follow. Now if I can just figure out how to attach 'em... :confused:

[mbd]

I did a search on Yachtworld.com - check these out - the enclosed head has been done in a boat very similar to the Ariel.

These are of a 1968 and 1966 25' Wing 25
LOA: 25'0 LWL: 18' 0" Beam: 8'0 Draft: 3' 7"

Specs sound familiar? Here's the boat:

[mbd]

Hot dog! It worked!

Line drawing:

[mbd]

Interior shots:

[mbd]

Another one:

[mbd]

And one more up close:

[mbd]

I like the rounded entries and those round portals on the cabin front too! ...kind of like Commander #105!

One obstacle, I'm guessing, as Ebb pointed out earlier, is "the deadlights would be a problem"...

OK, I'm done now.

Mike

[ebb]

Mike,
On this Wing, it looks like the mast is further aft than the Ariel. From the photo of the bulkhead you can almost believe there is a nasty compression problem because it's sagging across the top! Yas it is! Anyway, the mast is on the aft bulkhead. And the furniture is in the V-berth area along with the head opposite. The cockpit is further aft than the Ariel allowing a skosh more volume in the saloon. And a longer V-berth.

Aussie Geoff has a hard plumbed head facing aft in the V-berth, but it is too far aft to shut a door - a curtain could be rigged. He probably made it so you didn't have to disassemble the cross filler piece to use the throne. The Ariel V-berth came with a door and a head plumbed further forward. So it IS a private head. Fine for day use but useless for a family of four at night.

So, you've decided you have to have it enclosed:
You pick the side, you blank out one forward deadlight entirely. IE, rebuild the coach roof as if it never was there. Then remove whatever piece of furniture from that corner in front of the bulkhead. Now you can place your vertical 1/2 bulkhead. You have some fore and aft room to make the enclosed space larger or smaller. You have cleverly included a folddown sink. And a whole bunch of plumbing.

Now you have to open up the whole other side into the v-berth area, maybe with a 'passthru' opening in the compression bulkhead. Anything to create length and space. Think it might work?

Then you get lucky and find a nice oval opening port for the new lavatory. One door might be used for both lav and v-berth. OK, door for the lav, curtain for the forward stateroom.

What's left of the settee on the lav side is now very short. Well, looks like it's perfect for the galley. The unchanged settee can now be made to pull out into a double berth. The tots have their own room in the v-berth. You have the salon and a lav. Don't know if the door will close with the double berth set up.

There you go, piece of cake!

[mbd]

I knew one of you genious restoration specialists could figure it out! Be sure and post pictures of your progress Ebb...

[ebb]

nay mon!
get three turks to do it for under 15.000 for you.

piece of paklava :rolleyes:

[Theis]

No more wishful thinnking. I have a plan that works - have done it.

The Jabsco electric mascerator fits in the forward cabin, in the same spot where the original Raritan went. It fits beautifully and is low enough to fit under the bench cover. The through hull inlet is the same as the Raritan. But the outlet for the Raritan is sealed. The inlet line goes up to the bottom of the bench, where there is an anti-siphoning attachment, and then down to the toilet inlet.

The outlet tube - I believe it is only one inch with the mascerator - goes aft (it is hidden) on the port side under all the benches to the port lazarette. Under the cockpit floor, just forward of the rudder shaft, I have mounted a 13 gallon holding tank. The tube goes up to just under the bench forward of the lazarette cover, and down to the upper hole of the holding tank. The ventilation outlet goes to the starboard center side of the motor well ( to prevent spillage when the boat is healed). The drain (the lower connection) goes aft to a pump out outlet just forward of the motor well bulkhead.

Oh, I forgot. I don't think this holding tank arrangement woud work with an inboard there being no space for the holding tank where I have placed it. You would have to probably store the stuff under one of the cabin benches and loose storage space.

But the mascerator is terriffic. Push a button, and its all over. Woosh!

[mbd]

Ebb, I was browsing through the want ads this morning for "hired hands" to start the head refit as per your pearls of wisdom, then remembered - I don't have a boat yet! :o

PS. Got any updated pictures on the progress of your restoration?

[mbd]

Thanks Theis, now we know the plumbing is doable.

I had another thought - what if you put a compression post under the mast ala the Commanders, that would free up the bulkheads to be moved around as needed. You could put the head to one side and build out its room to the centerline, then have your opening to the vberth opposite.

And honestly, all this sounds like an awful lot of trouble. I'd most likely go with the bucket in the cockpit idea for the overnighters with the kids. As someone pointed out earlier, the head IS enclosed for day sails...

I was just curious if someone has done it.

And Tony G, I'm afraid I don't see a "sou'wester 70" anywhere in my future - not enough character! ;)

Mike

[ebb]

G'mornin Mike,
My blinkin progress is woefully slow. Energy is disapate by employment responsibilities and certain other diversions. Maybe soon something in the Gallery.

.................................................. .................................................. ....

Ariels are public domain, your desire for one private. How's the transfer made?

Our thoughts here are energy constructs - the higher the energy, the more equivalent energy form is possible. Thoughts are transfered to the essential by keeping oneself (Depok Chopra would say: in the field of all possibilities) totally open and aware and awake.

Edward Dahlberg (not your best known Am writer) said: "One perception must immediately and directly lead to a further perception."

An Ariel should appear directly. :D

[mbd]

Hmmm. Much food for thought. But it would seem, Capt. Ebb, that "perception" is not my shortcoming. You see, the family just doesn't enjoy sailing on my "Ariel construct" nearly as much as I do. In fact, I am perceiving "tcoolidge"s fine photo of Ariel #332 in the San Juans just fine on my PC desktop - but I'll be damned if I can make it my reality!

Maybe in time, with your guidance and lots of practice, I'll achieve enlightenment and an Ariel... :confused:

[commanderpete]

There always seems to be a few Ariels for sale in Maine.

Here's one. The owner seems to have dumped alot of money into her recently. Price may come way down after awhile.

http://www.pointseast.com/market/sail.shtml

[mbd]

Thanks commanderpete - I've had my eye on that one, but it's waaaaayyyy too expensive. I would like to have a looksie though, just haven't gotten around to it.

I've looked at a few others over the last months that some have been kind enough to post on this board, and am planning on making an offer on one soon...

Believe me, you guys'll know when Ebbs "Ariel construct" appears.

This board is great and the collective knowlege invaluable - entertaining too!

[ebb]

Amazing!
There you go!
At least take a look at it
when the snow plows clear the roads!

Find a REAL surveyor, and/or a knowledgable friend, one who knows Ariels have balsa core decks and has an eye for mast compression problems.

If you do find the boat ready to sail and see what the owner wants to recoupe on his upgrades, it just might be worth what he thinks it is. Upgraded Ariels should be worth more, much more, than a fixer. Just think what a set of new sails go for, or new rigging, even an OB. Just about did five grand on those three items.....

When you agree on a price, maybe he'll do a no interest pay plan, for a fellow Arielist? You are right: looking at it gets the process started. Maybe the money will find a way also! :cool:

From my perspective, 3 years on the hard, and the end barely in sight - a boat that has really been attended to, I would go for ina minute. A safe upgraded boat is worth the worry of a fixer. New thruhulls, a healthy rudder assembly. There are so many pieces to a ready to go sailboat, if you were doing it yerself you'ld never get to the end of the projects. Imagine looking up at the masthead when a breeze gets up wondering if the toggles are in good shape, you never got to it, and the kids are there in the cockpit poking each other.... That expensive Ariel.... you can bet he has put in three times what he hopes to get back. Look at the mast, top to toe. Maybe he did good.


I don't know what you do for fun in the frozen north but putting your frozen feet in the yards and marinas also puts you in the way of the boat what has your name on it. That's one energy output that could produce results. Talk with the harbor masters, they know what's happenin. Might be a lien sale, or Dobro's gone to live with his sister, and his Airel might be available. Make a better price in the dead of winter. Blah, kablah, blah. :)

Then again........

[John]

As an addendum (boy do I like that word!) to Ebb's thoughts regarding surveys et al. I had a fairly good surveyor when I purchased Valhalla and he found some "wet spots." My glass guy went over what he found and really only fixed two spots, I had some wet core just aft of the forward hatch, and also around the rudder post. For the rest, he said watch and wait. Those spots have not spread and still seem sound after 14 years (ye Gods...that long??)

Talk around the marina/yard and find the really great glass guy. He is the one that has to live with what he says, and gets to open up the problems.

BTW Ebb, I thought you played a dobro not talked to him :D

[mbd]

Hey Ebb, I'm sensing some wavering resolve on your end. Hang in there and keep your vision intact. And don't underestimate the inspiration you are to the rest of us blokes... I'm sure the first time 338 fills her sails and carries you towards the sunset, it'll have been worth all the trouble.

[commanderpete]

That's right ebb, keep plugging away, we're rooting for ya'.

I hope you're not suffering from the terrible disease of perfectionism. It's a crippler. Make yourself a good boat, not a great one, and get her wet.

"Great is the enemy of good"

[ebb]

( ....... s i g h ........)

[Tony G]

Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to work...as much.

I'm convinced that building a boat inside a boat isn't as easy as building a boat from the ground up. Pete's right. Being a perfectionist can stop you in your tracks, or at least slow you down. The more I read about different boats out there the more I find that each one has it's own limitations or 'weakness'. You just can't have it all in one boat. Ebb, I know you know this and the one thing you give up to have something else is 'the most important thing' when you aint got it. So you keep doing just what you're doing because it has just as much to do with the journey as the destination.

What the heck does that have to do with enclosed heads? Oh yeah, compression posts. Mbd, one of the cardboard mock ups we used had included an enclosed head on the port side just forward of the main bulkhead. Naturally you have to give up some of the v-berth area wich may not work for you and yours with kids. That idea included a laminated mast step support beam that was nearly half the thickness of our new one suported be three 'compression posts', the center one being located about 8 inches to port of center. That allowed for a wider doorway/hatchway forward and still gave room for another 'compression post' on the starboard end of the mast step beam for complete support. The hatch would swing to enclose the head much like the one in the Wing. The part I didn't like. Unless you raise the sole in the forward area about 4 inches you'd have to step on angled hull to go forward.

Of course to do these modifications you'd have to tear out the v-berth, the main bulkhead, the mast step beam, blah, blah, blah. Before you know it, 12 grand for a ready to sail Ariel isn't so far out of line.

Frozen in solid
Tony G

[mbd]

So Tony, I gather you opted for the standard configuration when all was said and done then? I saw the thread of your deconstruction... :eek:

Any recent pictures?

Hat's off to guys like you and Ebb! It's great to have access to your experience! And as I told Ebb - you are an inspiration...

Now, if I could just get my hands on one of these little 26' Pearson buggers!

[Tony G]

Well, pretty standard. But not 'original' standard. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knockin' all of those original beauties out there in the fleet. After I found that rotted bulkhead, well, one thing just followed another and... After all, I kind of stumbled into this boat thing by reading Tim Lackey's (pre-boat barn) site as his project progressed from one job to another. Tee-hee, as far as the wife's concerned it's his fault :D

I've chosen a typical layout for a boat this size. It's going to be a weekend camper for the most part. At the same time we're hoping to make changes that will facilitate coastal cruising maybe offshore work not limit it from ever doing so. I'm hoping to achieve strength and saftey and storage and storage and storage.

This last season was pretty much a seven day a week work load. 'Had to do it-didn't like it, but it fattened kitty. Nearly all of my boat work was done with the credit card, barter wire and the internet (read flattened the kitty). Got all of the big pieces we need to put her back together though :cool:

As far as pictures...ugh...she's wrapped in plastic inside the building waiting for winter to release it's grasp. I can't even bring myself to photograph her like that. Woe

[Theis]

So Tony and MBD:

Have the palm trees started to drop their leaves in your part of the world. It's hard to believe that a month ago my boat was still in the big pond out there, and here I am looking out over an ice covered little pond. How long do you guys have to go before the weather becomes somewhat bracing?

Ice boating anyone?

[Tony G]

Theis

It IS bracing. It's not -20F until the end of January through the first half of February. I always feel like I've accomplished something by just living through it. Ick.

Anyways, how about some more info on your macerating head install. That is the one issue we haven't made a final decision on here. I would like to do away with the porta-poti. Yet, I'm afraid of having some problem with a 'system' and having to disassemble it post use pre pump-out. Coupled that with the fact I know of only one marina here with a lift station. Can you manually 'pump-out' your holding tank?

To help keep that tropical feel around here we have two Sago palm trees, Cycad revolutia (I believe). They go out in May and come back in October. I wonder how old those forty-footers are that you see at the swanky hotels are?

[mbd]

The commute in to work was a lot fun this morning! Looks like you guys in the midwest are sending your slop our way!

In spite of the snow however, the highlight of my commute this morning was passing a guy towing a beauty of a "project" boat North. She looked about 22'-26', a deep full keel with an attached rudder, maybe a 4' draft, a wooden cabin trunk, and a transom that swept right up to the poop deck! Hubba hubba! I think I almost caused a wreck rubber necking as I went past.

He must have gotten an end of season deal from some thankless Southerner who was so busy sailing he didn't have 6 months to pull her out of the water each year for routine maintenance to keep her up...

[Theis]

Ah, so much for commiserating on the shortening days and being indoors rather than where I would really like to be.

As for the details, all I do for the toilet at the end of the season, after it has been pumped out, is to pour a gallon of -60 stuff from West into the toilet and flush pump it into the holding tank. Done! With the 13 gallon tank, and recognizing that this is a man's sport, I only pump it out when closing up the boat for the winter, unless, of course, if I have been cruising. In other words, in a man's world use the big genoa as protection from prying eyes, if needed, when nature calls and you are out on the open water. The head is only for ladies, absolute emergencies and when in port (but there you probably have a shoreside facilities).

With the holding tank under the cockpit, I can pretty much tell how full it is by watching the waterline on the boat when no one is on it. 13 gallons will weigh 100 lbs, and that will lean the boat aft. Then a pump out is long past due. As you know, the Ariel is pretty sensitive to weight near the stern. (The balance point is just aft of the mast, at the forward most part of the keel bottom).

I guess you could use a manual pump out (manually pump out to where?), but for the inconvenience and the $7.00 cost, just do it. I was on a boat a couple years ago, and was disgusted when, one morning, I found the skipper pumping out his tank into a secluded bay in which we had anchored. Don't do that, please. I never went sailing with the guy again and have no desire to do so again.

Incidentally, the principal reasons for the electric mascerator toilet, other than convenience in flushing, are 1) they use less water per flush (fewer times between pump out, and 2) the waste piping to the holding tank is significantly smaller. Because it is smaller, it can bend more readily to accomodate the anti-siphoning fittings and is better hidden in the passage under the bunks.

[ebb]

With small children aboard a small boat there is a another ballet than when racing around the buoys with the boys. Being a dad who grew up with a girl child, years ago now, certainly an enclosable head is prefered. And a sitdown toilet is best for guys and gals, young and old, and all points of sailing etiquette on a day cruise around the pond.

Carrying effluent around in a special tank with yards of tubes and wires, loops and in-pumps and out-pumps, Y-valves and guages, even tho mandated by robotic authorities, is nuts. To avoid the expense of a whole new system the old is jerried to conform. I know it is a giant leap to a composter - it certainly is initially as they want $850 now for it. Probably comparable to the cost of a complete wet installation. It also requires developing new habits in relieving self, and special aiming techniques for the toddler and the older.

I've thought the AirHead a fine alternative (and a legal one) to the crazy requirements of the marine wet head. Their website hasn't generated in the two, three years I've looked in. It's a grand idea that needs some visable energy support, where else but at its public window. Price may be the problem. There is but a single model. Aside from price, the name may be off-putting. But the intent obviously was to feature a device that is easy and clean to use. A niche easy to fill, one would think. Of course maybe it is becoming popular, but still you need the installation photos and testimonials (very few.) I hoped my interest here would get some feedback, but it hasn't. I'ld like to know why everybody here seems to accept the particularly disgusting rubegoldberg conventional head?

Another thing: the porcelein head with pump body and handle, awkward tubes, mismatched stainless and plastic fittings has a freaky Dr Frankenstein's laboratory look to it. (Imagine what the kids see and smell - or how improbable it is to your guest lubber.) The beige composting bin is definitely more friendly, friendly and cuddly, like a retriever!

Waste tank effecting sail trim in deed! :p

[mbd]

I was looking at Epiphany's comparison picture of the Bristol 27 and the Ariel in regards to this thread. Looks like the difference here is the length of the cabin...

[Theis]

I was amazed at how similar the Bristol is to the Triton, which also has two forward portholes a head closet. Two feet makes a big difference in toilet habits.

[CapnK]

If you print out that picture, and hold one over the other, you will be even more surprised. Aligning them at the mast, the B27 cabin trunk is almost identical, only it extends aft what looks to be maybe another 6". Aligning them at the main bulkhead, the Ariel actually seems to have a slightly larger (though very slightly) main salon. Two more feet of boat, in order to have an enclosed throne, it looks like. :)

Here's a graphical overlay of the 2 - though not the best resolution, it serves the purpose. I have the image in a larger size (a 110k GIF) if anyone is really interested. Black lines are the Ariel.

http://liquid-epiphany.com/images/photoalbum/4/Ariel_w27_overlay.jpg

[mbd]

Cool. That's very interesting! I never realized how similar the two boats are!

I'd be curious to see how a Tartan 27 measures up. It has an enclosed head as well. That was another boat on my short list.

[ebb]

Epip,
How you do that? You have something there. Even tho the B27 has a 1000# more displacement, her beam is 8' like the Ariel. Maybe the bilge is not as slack producing a smidgeon more volume. It shows how frustrating a few more inches in cabin length and height would make rearrangement in the Ariel that much easier. Be interesting to see how much room you'ld actually have in the B27 bathroom. You're right, you pretty much have an Ariel there with longer overhangs and more weight.

Could possibly have an enclosed head by blanking out a dead light, or rearranging the lights with smaller ports like Mike Goodwin wanted to do. Arguably a safer offshore alternative. And fit the enclosed head in that way.

I gave up on 338 because at the time I wanted to keep the look of the lights. There is every reason to have smaller opening ports thruout the cabin, especially if you're headed into the tropics. An enclosed head at the companion way doubles as the below deck wet locker, and other important temporary large item stowage.

[CapnK]

Ebb -

To make the overlay and other things you'll see me doodle, I use a free graphics application called "The GIMP". "GIMP" is an acronym for "Gnu Image Manipulation Program". The GIMP is much like a commercial (read: "expensive") image manipulation program that you have probably heard of, named "Photoshop", except it is Free - no cost to get and use, and, if you are enough of a nerd to know programming languages and wont to do so, you can also get and futz with the source code of the program. I do not, I simply enjoy the use of such a powerful tool. :)

There are versions of the GIMP for windows, Linux, and Mac operating systems. The program and installation instructions are available here:

The GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/)

[Theis]

Here is a picture of my Jabsco mascerator head, in the usual head spot. Note the vented loop on the right side, at the level of the bunk.

[Theis]

Here's aview of the 13 gal. holding tank, mounted under the cockpit floor (outboard version of the Ariel). FYI, above are two gauges, a) an ampere gauge that I use to test whether a light is working, and to estimate the amount of juice I am drawing so I can estimate my battery life, and b) a voltage gauge so I know whether the battery should be recharged.

[Tony G]

This is great. It still falls under the 'enclosed head?' thread and it's breaking some new ground.

Theis, we just need more pictures of your boat. There's alot you're not telling us. For instance, just how tough are you IL guys? I noticed you don't even use padding on your berths. Yeowza! :D

[Theis]

We're not all that tough in Ilinnois. I use a mat of tacks (the shorter ones) welded on a steel sheet, which keeps me from rolling off when the boat heels over more than 60 degrees. I take the mat off in the winter so the points don't get dull and rusted. I find that, particularly when ssailing overnight, the tacks keep me from sleeping too soundly so that I am awake should there be a 2:00 AM thunderstorm or I collide with something.

Of course, when the missus is aboard, I use the silk sheets, quilts, and love seat cushions (and don't sail).

[ebb]

Know how you feel, Theis,
Here is a site with instructions on how to build a bed with 8" aluminum gutter spikes thru plywood that might not corrode as quickly in your fresh water environment.

www.pitt.edu/-dwilley/nailbed.html

You can also space the nails wider apart in the grid to gain more impalability. And you don't mention the building blocks or slabs of concrete to place on your back if you sleep on your stomach.

But most people, as you know, lie on their backs with the concrete
or their wives sitting on them. :rolleyes:

[Of course the bloody thing won't come up. Pick up the University site and type in 'Instructions for making a bed of nails']

[Theis]

Hey, Ebb. We're tough, but not that tough. Besides, if it requires a University professor to help me design the thing, it will cost too much. My wife would never let me spend that much on a pleasure toy (and they come in all sizes and shapes). She is very careful with my money.

[mbd]

Bump - to show an Ariel that has indeed been modified with an enclosed head (http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showpost.php?p=14856&postcount=4): Ariel 412 thread (http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?p=14856#post14856)

[mbd]

I like this idea of adding more space for an enclosed head: add a compression post, and bring to bulkhead out to it, using the other half as the access to the v-berth. I like the flip down shelves too. Look at all that counter space!

[ebb]

The accommodation certainly looks small enough to be an ARIEL.
Is it?
Is it yours?
Looks like a clever bit of privacy,
can you open the door for us?
Or is is locked.....?


Where did this thread come from?
I sure hope that Peter Theis is OK!

Ebb

[mbd]

Sorry Ebb - it came out of my "ideas" folder where I just dump pics of stuff I like, and unfortunately, I didn't retain which boat this came from...

[Tony G]

That is a great head idea. With all of that cabin sole showing it must be a flat bottomed boat. Read, Hunter, Catalina...

But I thnk your idea would work on an Ariel, Mike. Because we have such a turn in the bilge in that area the head may need to be 'throne' high on it's own platform. If one could position the bulkheads such that when you open the door to enter it actually closes off the area from the main cabin so you could 'drop trou' before backing into the head compartment proper. Close the door and go.......so to speak.

And the counter space in that photo!!!! Boat office.:cool: