Gooseneck

[pmorgan]

Hi. I'm new to this forum and am really glad it's here. Does anyone have a good source for a ready made replacement gooseneck? Fixed to the mast type is what I want. I'm hoping to not need to reinvent the wheel and have one custom made.

Thanks,

Paul

[commanderpete]

It seems this post never got a response.

My gooseneck has now reached the end of its service life. Below is a rough diagram of what I have. The piece I broke on Saturday I call the "eye." It emerges from the center of the boom. I'm thinking it might be the end of a long rod that runs inside the full length of the boom. Anybody have any info on that?

[commanderpete]

I took this picture last Winter. The whole business is pretty ugly. You can see that one of the "ears" is broken off. The "saddle" looks brittle, deformed and suspect.

[commanderpete]

The gooseneck is fairly critical. I wish it were a more robust structure. There is a brief mention in the Manual about a fixed gooseneck. I kinda like the downhaul, but I'm open to suggestions.

I broke that "eye" piece on Saturday while sailing in heavy winds. I didn't know it until I got back home and dropped the sail. Then it broke apart and the boom started flopping around. Could have been an ugly scene if it happened while underway.

[marymandara]

Pete,
Check with RigRite--
They have a lot of New Old Stock Pearson Spars parts like this. If you don't see it on the website, you might call them up as I have found they have more misc. than is listed.

Alternatively, you can have a machine shop duplicate the original parts. My Triton has nasty cast aluminum everything which is old and pitted...in which I have little faith. I am having a fellow in the technology department at the local U. duplicate all of the parts from billet stock, which shuold be much stronger. I'm going to be sure that a Delrin bushing goes between the stainless parts (like your "eye") and the rest of the assembly, as well. Cost--especially on things like the spreader sockets--is markedly less than buying the stock cast-aluminum items.
Dave

[noeta-112]

C.P. ,

I've seen the gooseneck end fitting on the Rig-Rite web site. In fact it was then that I found out that the boom on my ariel was in fact a furling type. They have the center eye which in fact is just a spring loaded post affair replaceble on its own or I believe they have the whole gooseneck end fitting as well as the saddle. In fact I think they have the right size boom extrusion too.

My "eye" was worn nearly clean through and the saddle was also badly worn. A friend welded up the hole in the eye which I then redrilled to proper dimension and I milled out a new saddle from a piece of scrap aluminum which I had pack-ratted away for 23 years!!! Pack-Rats rule!!

Good luck getting the end fitting out of the boom.


Russ

[ebb]

C'pete,
Looks like the boom/mast fittings on 338 are just like yours, not broken yet. Very much hope that your research leads to an upgrade you can tell us about.

We have cast aluminum parts breaking all over the place. We gotta put a stop to it!!:D

[Bill]

On #76 we replaced the aluminum gooseneck toggle with a duplicate made of stanless steel. Ditto for the eye in the boom, which was a spring loaded bit of machinery for the old roller reefing system. It is now bolted solid to the boom end fitting.

[commanderpete]

Preliminary investigation at the rigrite.com website didn't reveal a match for the "saddle" (gooseneck toggle).

This one looks pretty close

http://rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/_derived/Gooseneck_toggles.html_txt_PP-B4.gif

[commanderpete]

I spoke to Rudy at D&R. He thinks the end boom casting with the ears may be the same as on the P-26 and he can get it. (I'm not so sure its the same). It would have to be machined for the holes.

I'm sure my old one is fused on.

He believes that he has the "eye" piece (he called it an arrowhead). It can be taken off by removing the bolt at the back end of the boom. I'll let you know. I'll have to take measurements and make some more calls.

I'm thinking that if I buy a different "car" (gooseneck slide) for the 7/8" track I might have more options. Maybe get a toggle with reefing hooks and do away with the broken ear and the reefing hook I've been using.

In the meantime I've been sailing with just the genoa like some lazy weekender. I'm cobbling something together to get the mainsail back in operation (don't ask).

http://rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/_derived/Gooseneck_toggles.html_txt_K-10518a.gif

[noeta-112]

OK, I'll take the risk.... My initial reaction to the idea of having to take the bolt off at the back (aft) end of the boom to get at the arrowhead thingy was....WHAT??!! Sorry, but it is a complete puzzle to me as to what effect that action would have other than to free up the bolt and butterfly. From what pics I saw on Rig-Rite a year or so ago, I assumed ( makes an ass of U & me - word), The arrowhead (eye) was a short spring loaded shaft that the boom can rotate around when pulled aft enuff to release the arrow head base from its capturing socket in fwd boom cap casting. If the shaft is somehow connected to the after end of the boom ..... How can this boom furling action take place?

Am I missing something here? Help!


Russ

[noeta-112]

More on the above....
Unless it is a non furling boom and someone figured it was cost effective to install a very looooooooong bolt with an arrowhead on the forward end rather than a short bolt captured firmly in the end cap.

[Bill]

Maybe the bolt in the boom (aft) end cap is causing some confusion. It is short and is there to act as an axle on which the boom will roll while being held up by the topping lift as you reef the main. The total assembly of the locking axle with eye at the forward end is only about 4 inches long.

[noeta-112]

Bill,

Guess you've been there...

Now if I can only free up the bolt at the aft end of the boom, strip off all the eyes, jamb cleats fairleads, turning blocks, and cleats I can give the boom a whirl....:D

Nah...:p


Russ

[commanderpete]

I replaced the boom with the one from my old Commander. Its the bottom one in the photo. Both "ears" were broken off, and the "eye" (arrowhead) hasn't got much left to it.

[commanderpete]

I've been trying to take out the broken arrowhead. You're right, doesn't seem to be a rod. But, the arrowhead won't twist out. Do you have to remove the casting at the front of the boom?

Thanks all.

I hope the old boom lasts till haulout time in December. I just can't get motivated to do boat repairs during sailing season.

[Bill]

Yes, the boom end fitting must be removed to get at the reefing assembly.

[Tony G]

I envy you Pete. You and your rub rails;)

[ebb]

C'pete,
WOW, another stirring shot, 10/14/03.
It's not eye-candy. Is it soul-candy?

[commanderpete]

Some of the best sailing in the Fall. I'm glad to have the mainsail back. I couldn't keep up with this Tartan with just the genoa. Could have been a whole different story otherwise. :p

[commanderpete]

Tony, I will write up the rubrail story. But first I had to test the rubrails by bashing into assorted docks and pilings. Strictly for research, of course.

[revjeff]

I recently had damage to my pearson ariel. Among many things, I need to replace the "eye" at the end of my boom. I've read the postings, checked out rigrite, but am uncertain which actual part I need to order. The circum of the boom is 9.5" which makes me believe I need parts for the D-Section gooseneck. Can I replace the "eye" only? or do I have to replace that whole piece?

[Theis]

For whatever it is worth, I replaced my goosneck fitting (broken as a result of a less than spectacular flying jibe in turbulent seas). I was ripped off for the cost but at least I got the part. The rigger at the marina charged me two cases of Millers, delivered to his truck. Go to a former Pearson dealer/marina, and have them look through their junk box hidden in a closet somewhere. I believe the gooseneck fitting was common to many boats of the day and age and is a part the former Pearson dealers seem to have lying around. Good Luck

[commanderpete]

I just got around to working on my boom last night. I had to drill out the screws that held the casting inside the boom. After that, the casting came out quite easily.

Here it is.

[commanderpete]

The replacement "eye" (arrowhead) looks to be rigrite part # PP-B2. The measurements match up.

You can easily replace just the arrowhead.

I'm going to replace the whole casting, once I figure out which one I need.

I don't need the spring-loaded roller-reefing feature. But, I think it might help to absorb shock when I crash jibe.

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Pearson_Spars/pearson_D_Boom.html

[Theis]

Great Info. Thanks. That info goes into my valuable vendors book.

[ebb]

Thanks for the tips and info on the boom end parts. My boom lives outside my back door instead of on the boat, so after reading the posts here I had a look at it.

To me the 338 boom is more EGG shaped in cross section than the Kenyon diagram, which is eliptical. The pointy end of the egg being the groove on the upside. And the boom OD measures 3.5" X 2.375". 3 1/2 X 2 3/8.

Is this just me being too picky again or is my boom an after market item? The castings at either end look pretty good, but given that old cast aluminum wants to crystalize, I think replacing them and having them for backups is the way to go.

Does anybody elso have a boom like 338's?
I would also like to replace the boom attachment on the mast track. While it looks good, it doesn't seem as robust as the boom fitting and it is held on by corroded fastenings thru thr track. Grateful for any comments.

[commanderpete]

You're right ebb.

The boom profile is more like that of the Rig Rite #3522 or #4025. But, the size is different. Unfortunately, you need an exact match.

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Pearson_Spars/pearson_Booms.html

I'm just going to replace the arrowhead for now.

I spoke to Roger at D & R, they don't have anything.

[Theis]

Commander Pete: You must have a virus in your computer. There is a little sailboat underneath your name and the sails appear to be luffing violently - unless it is only a software glitch.

One note of caution about the gooseneck, based on my experience two years ago. In a flying jibe I experienced, with a preventer to hold the boom down, the gooseneck was the part that gave way, fortunately. I fear that if the gooseneck had not given way, the boom could have been broken, fittings pulled out, sail could have been torn or whatever, but there could have been substantial damage. I could get along with a broken goosenect until I could get it repaired, but the other alternatives would have made my life getting home much more difficult.

The moral of that experience, as I see it, is to keep the gooseneck the weekest link - don't make a gooseneck out of stainless. If anything is going to break, have it be the gooseneck.

Yes, I know your are not supposed to do flying jibes- but for we types that are drinking a beer (and/or reading a good book) when we should be watching the sail..........

[ebb]

Capt. Theis makes a very interesting point there about the goose neck being the 'weakest link' in a boom saving scenario. I hope to read other comments on this point.

Admiral Bill on the mast renovation thread mentions a article in the Mar/Ap 04 issue of Good Old Boat on a small boat boom refit using a more modern (but recycled) boom and parts. The writer used an octagonal section boom for his upgrade replacing his nice rounded (and bent) one.

His nasty accident was directly related to moving end boom sheeting to mid boom. The load was spread out with three spaced apart blocks on the boom - but the bails were bolted THRU the boom. The writer thinks this substantially weaken it. Not so sure the holes were at fault.

Has anybody thought of using around the boom straps? You'ld have to cut into the groove part of the extrusion, of course. One way would be to cut slots through the base of the groove, slip in the strap, bend it to shape and hold it in place with 5200. Could even create a dip in the top of the strap so that it would sit down into the groove to better ease the bolt rope thru, if that was a problem. Just thinking out loud!

The aluminum end castings:
If someone had old ones in good shape, couldn't they be used as patterns to make new ones of cast almag?

Plain aluminum parts can be machined out of billets, if you wanted to replace a broken eye, probably in a home shop. But an experienced welder would be more difficult to locate. It must be possible to trust some aluminum welding - the custom motor shops do it all the time.

Ballenger welded together 338's new masthead 'crane.'

[Theis]

When I was rehabing Solsken, I gave a great deal of thought to the concept of running the sheets to the boom, rather than the end of the boom. I decided against it because the aluminum extrusion could take compression, but I had no confidence it could take pint bending stress, particularly when combined with compression - and I wanted to be safe.

But then when I got a new mainsail, and realized that the new ones were loose footed, (the sail gives the boom NO support to counter act a bending force from the sheet) I was certain the guys that designed the Ariel knew what they were doing mounting the sheets to the end of the boom.

So you have those two points at either end of the boom - the gooseneck on one end, and the sheets on the other. A vang or preventer is somewhere in between. One of the four things (boom, gooseneck, vang/preventer fitting or mount, or the casting at the end of the boom holding the sheet lines and topping lift) has got to give. Take your pick, but don't let mother nature do it for you. You might not like the outcome.

[Bill]

Our most important project this winter was replacing the gooseneck toggle assembly on the mast. Steve, one of the crew, volunteered to create the new fitting. He is a top notch machinist at Lawrence Livermore Labs and his work is always outstanding (though usually having something to do with nukes). When it arrived, I epoxied the inside of the fitting so that it would not weld itself to the mast. Might want to remove it someday to paint. Here is what Steve created.

[Bill]

Note that two of the blocks on the mast are being incorporated into the new fitting.

[Bill]

The old gooseneck toggle fitting for comparison:

[Bill]

Installing the new fitting required removing most of the old track on which the original gooseneck toggle rode. The stuff was in pretty poor condition after 40+ years, and also, most of its fasteners were frozen. Hammer and pry bar time.

With the track finally removed, I lined up the fitting on the mast only to find that the strap holding a block for one of the reefing lines on the starboard side was in the way. And, of course, its fasteners were frozen in place. I attacked the fasteners with one of those impact screwdrivers that you hit with a hammer to get the fastener to twist out. But as usual, it didn’t work for me. Ended up grinding down the interfering fastener, bending away the strap and then grinding down the remaining stub of the fastener so it was about level with the mast. (I’ll get the rest of the offending strap off the mast before we sail.)

[Bill]

Finally, I could line up the new fitting on the mast, drill the holes and tap them for #8 machine screws. Before installing the screws, I coated them with anti seize, again, just incase I wanted to remove the mast fitting someday.. Finally, the outhaul and reefing lines were run through their new blocks on the fitting and the gooseneck was slide into the toggle and fastened in place. Here’s how it now looks.

[Bill]

And, the starboard side . . .

[Tony G]

That is some very nice work! Incorporating the blocks is a nice touch too.

Are both of those lines for reefing? You know what I'm getting at, that elusive outhaul in a tube set-up. Maybe you could give us a photo tour of your recent upgrades. :cool:

[Bill]

The block visible in the port side view is for the out haul. The block with the red marked line in the starboard side view is for the leech reefing line.

[Bill]

Returning to Peter’s comments on possible failure points in the boom assembly (see post # 31 above), Maika’i’s boom attachment system is now all stainless steel, whereas the original Pearson system used aluminum castings for the both the gooseneck and the gooseneck toggle. Adding the rigid vang should create a pretty strong assembly from its attachment point on the boom forward to the mast. Could the system be too strong and lead to the boom failing in a major unintended jibe? The aluminum toggle in the original system has been known to fail in such conditions and may have protected the boom. Maybe the use of a preventer in very windy downwind conditions is doubly important with stronger attachment systems.

[Bill]

Continueing on the path to strength . . . A future project is to tap and fill with 1/4-inch long machine screws all the many holes left in the mast from old hardware. There are so many that I’m getting worried about them weakening the mast. :o Probably really not an issue, but . . .

[Ed Ekers]

Bill if I recall the vang installation correctly, would you not think the connecting point of the vang to the boom would be the weak link?......ed

[ebb]

Say Bill,
Why fill the holes with dissimilar metal screws?
Probably find some aluminum 'button head' screws that would work.
If the holes are small enough you might try some of that aluminum paste on the market.* Just don't push too much into the holes. :D

I, too, am very interested by what Ed means as the weak link in the vang plate connect.
__________________________________________________ __________________________

* you can use it for filling in corroded areas too in spars or fittings. While probably more cosmetic than structural it is easy to file and shape and finishes like the real stuff. Caswell 'Lab Metal' paste. {Dang, just looked it up it only comes in 24oz or something (group order?). But I know I've seen squeeze tubes somewhere: Permatex, maybe?. Good for little holes.]

[Bill]

Bill if I recall the vang installation correctly, would you not think the connecting point of the vang to the boom would be the weak link?......ed

It appears to be a pretty strong attachment (see post #13 at http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=201&highlight=rigid+vang)
but I guess the vang attachment at the boom could fail. Or, maybe the boom would fail at the vang attachment point?

[eric (deceased)]

the photo of the old gooseneck fitting shows an existing tang---or that "eye" I used that plus one on the boom itself with just one bolt thru these existing fittings----I juryrigged a gooseneck----a day later I was home

[414]

Hi Bill and Co.

I'm curious how you decided on the height to place your gooseneck Bill? I broke mine this fall and was considering building a more robust unit anyway that is fixed like yours.

Also, given that this thread was last active in 06 - how has it worked out over the years? Anything you'd change?

Thanks - Ben