Fruits Of My Labor (A-113)

[Tony G]

While some of you were relaxing this weekend or perhaps even sailing...congratulations Mike I'm just begining to comprehend... I FINALLY got to work on 113 for close to five hours. Now that may not seem like much to many of you out there who enjoy 'simply messing about in boats',but it's the longest stretch I've got to work on her since bringing her home in May 2001. I've wanted to rearrange some things all along and the whole 'bulkhead thing' has proven to be the catalyst to get things started. We're not going as far as shag carpet, but I pictured something a little bit taller, maybe U-shaped, maybe curved...

[Tony G]

Oh my God! What have I done! This bugger was a bit of a beast to remove. 'Guess that's what everybody says that has tried it before. Anyways, I'm glad it's gone now and I can't imagine the original ice box could keep anything cool for more than a day.

[Tony G]

...and here's what kind'a started it all. Geez, it sort of roomy in here now. Maybe I just need to bring less stuff with me-like that Zoltan cat.

[Tony G]

Being I can never spell bureau correctly (bad spellers of the world UNTIE!)we'll just call this picture former port drawers.

[Tony G]

You've probably figured me out by now. Yep, starboard too.

[Bill]

Oh my god, another Ebb :p

[Mike Goodwin]

Tony,
You can still go sailing with no interior , in fact you are faster .
BTW , #45 is far from finished .

Mike G

[Brent]

Tony,

What are your plans?

#66 looks much the same right now--I stripped out the cabinets a few weekends ago (although your paint looks to be in much better condition). I can't see replacing the forward cabinets; the icebox & after cabinetry will be replaced by a simple, long counter (you cannot have too much counter space).


Bill,

From you comment, can we infer that Ebb did this too?


Ebb,

Did you do any mods to the interior? How about some pictures?

[Bill]

Ebb may be busy managing the vines at the estate this time of the year. When last seen, Ebb had removed the total interior, including the strongback.

[ebb]

I'd have some pictures for here if I went and got a digital picture-maker or whatever it takes. But I need to be told and given a few alternatives what I must do. I have a Dell computer XPS7544. As soon as I'm motivated I'll go to goodguys and pretend I'm in the 21st century and 21 years old. Both of which I'm not.

338 now has a laminated white oak beam supported at the ends with oak braces terminating at the V-berth plywood. Underneath are magogany supports that fair and tab to the hull. taking some of the load away from the very casual cleat that supposedly supports the berth plywood at the bulkhead (actually the plywood is tabed UP on the bulkhead with polyester and mat.) This may be moot as the whole compression beam assembly is glued with cabosil, choppedglass and epoxy. It and what is left of the bulkhead are ONE I will also drive in mechanical fastenings as soon as I get some.

The bulkhead has been cut away opening up the cabin to include the forepeak stateroom. Where the head used to be is a bulkhead that contained the original watertank. This will be extended up and to the sides to make a 'crash' bulkhead that will have a large interior access hatch and the anchor locker forward where the water tank used to be.

Seriously considering custom made poly tanks port and stbd under the shortened V-berth. IE rather than glassed-io-place epoxy.

I've extended the stringers (maybe you think they are shelf supports) forward to the stem and am in the process of reinforcing the stem itself which I found to be quite thin. barely 3/8s of an inch at the watertank bulkhead where I'm putting in the sonar gizmo.

So, watchout when you start taking the furniture out!! Personally, I think Carlos left the interior up to the cousins, otherwise how could it be so awful? imho imho inmh ok?

I'm having some fun right now fairing the linerless forward part of the truck cabin so it kindof matches in smoothness the liner everywhere else. I think the rounded edge of the coachroof and the deck carried all the way around will be a treat.

The deck up forward has had a couple of minor oaklam beams put in so that a foredeck hatch can be cut in. There'll be a matching Bomar where the original is on the coach. ....this can go on and on and on. Luck on yer refit. And remember, use an epoxy that doesn't blush, it's a hell of a lot easier to come back to the job to fix yer mistakes.

[Bill]

Ebb, how about Gene and I visit and take photos for posting? Next week sometime? (These retired people are so busy you have to get appointments a week or more in advance :cool: )

[ebb]

Next week'll be fine. You guys did Thursdays befor. Remember the hull is still nude inside and virtually featureless because of exposed green fiberglass and bits of pearsonpaint. There just may not be enough to picture, you know, but we be honored to see you. 8/8/2002 noonish ??

[Bill]

Let me check with Gene and get back to you.

[Brent]

#66, also hacked-up inside.

[Brent]

Starboard side...

[Brent]

Where the icebox used to be...

[Brent]

And the counter...

Next time I will reduce the resolution so I can get it all in with fewer shots. I had to crop these to make the upload restriction.

[ebb]

We be fools or heros or lovers of impossible women.

[Mike Goodwin]

Make mine a Pale India Ale , a Sierra Nevada will do just fine . It has been the lubricant for boat builders for eons .

[Brent]

I know I'm the latter...

:D


Found these quotes at http://www.latitude38.com/wisdom.htm

"To furnish a wife will cost you much trouble,
But to fit-out a ship the expenses are double."
--W.H.Tillman

"The man who would be fully employed should procure a ship or a woman, for no two things produce more trouble" - Plautus 254-184 B.C.

[Tony G]

Brent
Doesn't that just give you a rewarding feeling? Buy a boat-take a boat apart. Have you any plans yet on what's going back in? I'm curious as to what others deem necesary accomodations below. Trying to come up with a layout that will allow two people to stay out of each others way in 25' may take a try or two. I think the cockpit will get factored in the equation somehow. 113 will essentially become our weekend get away after we put her in. No phones, no lights, no motor cars...

[Tony G]

Ebb
While reading your piece in the latest newsletter regarding strongbacks I noticed the photo of your strongback out of boat. Is that your mast with the tapered spreaders or just a handy bench? Also, just in case Bill's photos don't elucidate all, where you puttin' yer MSD? Glad you brought up the point of the stem being so thin. I hadn't planed on doing anything there but then again I didn't plan on buying the last two boats either!

[Brent]

Tony,

That was the plan from the begining. For years I've been itching to build a boat, but my wife proclaimed that she was not stepping into anything that I built :(

So, after some deliberation, we agreed that I could get my "fix" by working on a fiberglass boat, and she would know that it was built by a professional (although you know what they say about the Ark and the Titanic) :D

The plan for #66 is similar to yours--a weekend getaway without cars, phones, TV, etc. Of course, mine is a little bit more ambitious, as there are the three children (ages 12, 9 and 4) in addition to the wife.

The forward cabinets are not coming back. I cannot see much use for them--except to collect junk--and my wife is a bit claustrophobic, so having more space inside will make her more comfortable. The extra length on the berths will help to accomodate us all too. Also, there was an article in Good Old Boat last year that described how one boatowner put slats between the two quarterberths to make one large bed.

The icebox is being replaced with this puppy. Notice the advertisement about keeping ice for 5 days. I'll be testing that this week. If it can keep ice for 3, I'll be happy. It is going under the companionway. The way I see it, I can pack this at home--once--and use it all weekend. Much easier than packing a cooler, then a built-in icebox, and then unpacking the icebox, repacking the cooler and unpacking the cooler back at home...

The galley will essentially be one long countertop across the beam, with a sink in there somewhere, stops for a camp stove (although I'm planning on a rail-mounted grill for most of the cooking) and space under for storing it and other necessities.

I'm trying to figure out some way of getting a full-size chart table in as well (it will probably fold or slide in/out somehow).

I've already bought a hatch for the cockpit floor; the batteries are going down there.

...Yes, lots of plans slowly coming together. Gonna do a lot of sailing next year :D

[ebb]

Thought I would use that hole in the boat just behind the tiller. Like the royalty of old dumping out their castle windows.

Tony, as you may have read here I'm doing a bunch of unauthorized alterations. There'll be a new bulkhead right where the original head used to be where I can imagine a Lavac with a small holding tank on the forward side of the bulkhead in the forepeak. That's an other time. There'll be a sanipotti in the V just where it used to be and a curtain at the compression beam.

omygod I forgot about the mast!
No, that spar in the photo was just conveniently in the way at the yard. But I really have an aesthetic problem with the standard conduit tube spreaders on the mast. Ballenger Spars in Santa Cruz has nice cast wing spreaders that can be retroed. They also make a hefty tabernacle-step. that looks VERY interesting to me.

I would like to replace the masthead 'crane fitting because it is deeply pitted and untrustworthy looking on 338's mast. I saw a lot of stainless steel and aluminum spreaders at Ballengers but never thought to ask them about the toppiece.

Perhaps as was suggested on another thread we could get an order together for a brand new casting. Ballenger could tell us if this is feasible.

I've read somewhere, maybe here, of a fix made to a broken flange by welding on another plate over it as reinforcement. But that is a working loaded fitting that I'd think needs replacement because it's old, maybe stress cracks in it etc. It would be cool to have a replacement available. Will somebody look intoit?

[Tony G]

Well, Ebb, nearly a month has drifted by and we haven't seen any pictures of 338. Please don't tell me this 'work' thing is getting in the way of everybody's fun. I like to think it only hampers MY progress. You mentioned some products from Ballenger Spars-spreaders and a tabernacle. The idea of a tabernacle really appeals to me 'cause I doubt I could round up enough friends to help me step the mast so I'll probably be sinlehanding that too. A lot less comand issues that way! Does the mast drop (or maybe I should say lower)foward or aft with that design?
The more I think of what you said about the line formed by the deck and the cabin the more I like it. Open the whole place up! Shortly after I brought 113 home a friend dropped by to look at her and that's what he recomended. At the time I thought he was crazier than a **** house rat but it turns out that is what I'm leaning toward.(what have I become?) Did you do away with your V-berth all together but still call the area a v-berth or will it still be sleeping quarters? You know we're all curious as to just what you're doing, especially after Bill volunteered himself and Gene to do the photo shoot.
Tony G.

[ebb]

Hey, Tony..... I expect it was a gorgeous day all over the nation, while I was up and down the ladder framing in support for the stunted V berth - maybe they're forward settees since the 'V' is now the anchor locker (where the watertank used to be.) evreybody else was out sailing.

A settee is a berth too short to sleep on.

I'm putting in cleats (ie wood supports) under the ply top. To provide continuity for the compression beam load and forward to provide support for the new end of the ply. The bulkhead under the V is not tabbed or attached to the hull. It was plunked in place with some blue sanded polygoop mostly because it doesn't fit too well. I'm putting in 'cleats' along the hull and up the front. There is a filler piece in this frame ( under the compression beam verticals that end on the settee) taking the compression load to the hull. In theory.

There will be two new tanks custom made for the V-berth settees. THerefor the cleats there will not be radiused and tabbed to the hull to allow the poplyethylene tanks to fit snug. I'll radius and tab the other sides. The anchor and chain well will be over built. The anchor well is accessed from the deck thru a 19x19 Bomar cast/lexan hatch.

Below there will be an 'escape' access hatch thru the new bulkhead which will be watertight (anchorwell drain?) more or less conforming to the ORC "15% abaft the forward perpendicular" for such a bulkhead, Actually, right there at the end of the foredeck it's about 20%.

I really hated the old furniture and the dark plastic bulkhead. It's wonderful that it's gone. Fairing the turrett area with 410 and my local noblush epoxy while not easy was very satisfying. And photogenic Hope Bill and Gene come back with the recharged camera.

Tony, I'm interested as to why you want to put batteries in the bilge (under the cabin sole) Perhaps we should go back to an earlier thread to thrash that one out, I'm still persuaded. Has anyone a cautionary tale about the water rising over the cabin sole on their boat?

Hey, Brent, if yer here - how about some pics of your cockpit sole/ battery installation?

Tabernacles, (another thread?) Have to tilt forward, tho I came across a site where the guy lowered to his aft coachroof (which was I believe taller than the Ariel's) where he had another fitting with a pivot pin that had to be inserted to continue the lowering aft. I have never lowered any mast. But the idea is to lower it with the boom as the outrigger down to rest in the pulpit in a roller there. Then you'ld have to pull the pin at the step and with some help haul the thing aft. It would sure be over ballanced over the pulpit. A cruiser would have to lower forward given all the gear on the coachroof. Ariel would have to have a tall european style tabernacle higher than the coach roof and whatever else is on top and IMCO a 'gallows' fitting on the pushpit to receive the spar. There probably are some clever no-big-deal rigs on sailboats who have to lower their masts to berth in the inner marina down in Santa Cruz. Bet they all lower forward using the boom

The are numerous sites with numerous methods for lowering. You need a clever guy system for lateral control using your uppershrouds that keeps the triangulation taut as you lower or raise the mast. The latest one I read about had rings on the shrouds exactly level with the tabernacle pin. The lower part of the shroud is then stablized. But I have no idea how to rig it IMCO it has to be simple and accomplished singlehanded. YUP

[Tony G]

Ebb,
Holy cows! It seems that you've got alot more done than I had gleaned from the posts. I'm still a little cloudy on how much of the original bulkhead remains and where the suport/compression posts go-but I realize I'm a 'challenged' indivdual when it comes to certain tasks.
Yeah, how about that anchor well drain? I've read of other wells that drain overboard via a through hull. 1. Watertightlessness 2. UGLY and stained 3. Below the waterline (as you've probably guessed by now don't turn to me for ideas) Probably one of those inexpensive, infalable, pumps capable of handling solids and particular mater of up to 3/4" is the answere.
As far as batteries go I ain't gonna put them down there. I don't even like to put my hand down there! It makes sense to put heavy weight that low but....I know water gets in there. I've thought about locating them under the cockpit sole like Brent, and I've thought about finding some room up front under the 'soon to be gone' main bulkhead in an effort to keep the load balanced-unsure. Right now I'm still focusing on destruction with a little thought on reconstruction. I agee with your cautionary statement, more tabbing, stringers and beams will be added in an effort to spread out the stress as more of the interior is removed.
We have about two months before it starts to get too cold to work outside around here so maybe I'll at least get the destruction phase done this year.
Holding fast for photos, Tony G

[ebb]

Imagine, Capt, T, where there was bulkhead, a narrow passage and chunky furniture. just an empty hole lined with oak. The remaining bulkhead is evident under the decks and as ends for the bunks.

The first thing one notices going below is the wonderful graceful full curve of the deck and cabin going all way round port to starboard.

The original support structure of the compression beam terminates at the V-berth ply, those supports were screwed to the bulkhead befor the micarta was glued on. There is a single miserable cleat support under the ply. The one on the main bulkhead is fastened with 6 brass screws ( 3 top and 3 side) with some finishing nails added for emphasis. However, the V-berth ply is tabbed to the hull and the main bulkhead - on the top only. Half of a good thing. On 338 some of this polyester and mat tabbing has come loose from the ply.

The refit beam overhead is 5/16" strip laminated white oak, sided 5'' by 3"
Glued with a mash of epoxy/cabosil/chopped glass to decrease squeeze-out when clampped wet into the bending frame. Simple L-brackets on a plywood back in the curve of the pattern of the roof. Three pieces at a time left to set in the jig with light as possible clamping and it's done. Beltsand and cut to the pattern on the bandsaw. Piece of cheese.

Each end is lapjoined with a 3"x2" vertical that goes down to the V-berth using the coachroof side to get the angle. It's glued with the same mash to the bulkhead, and the blkhd which is so conveniently used for the assembly is trimmed back with the Hitatshi to the oak. So there's original plywood going all way round.

The post above explains the mahogany 'cleating' to spread the load of the abruptly ended vertical braces to the hull underneath the plywood berth and broaden the interface of the bulkhead/hull join in this heayily loaded area.

I remembered to rabbet the beam on the inside bottom edge which is almost directly under the center hole the mast electrics enter thru the deck. This will take the wires in a kind of chase to the sides of this wide opening. One guy came aboard and said, It's bigger than a Triton down here! Ofcourse there's no furniture in it yet.

IMCO: What I say here and what I"m doing to 338 don't make it right and don't make it wrong, it's just what I'm doing.

[ebb]

Tony, Course the chain locker being so low it couldn't have an overboard like those big yachts what carry their bowers in their noses. good point. You are right. Good idea. There should be a pump for this locker and it's obviously the <Henderson MK IV manual.> Anybody know a better one? Important rule: Never drain a forward bilge into an after bilge. Especially if it's supposed to be watertight!!!

One for the bilge, one for the head, and one for the anchor well hand op er a ted.

[Bill]

The latest Good Old Boat arrived and it has an article on turning a Pearson 26 (the Shaw design that followed Alberg's Ariel and Commander) into a cruiser. The author has gone in the exact opposite direction of Ebb! The open P26 interior was closed in and it now looks much like the stock Ariel interior!

[ebb]

Didn't know moles went to sea.

[Tony G]

Fast forward one year...ex-chainplate knee...heh-heh-heh...

[Tony G]

I like this one because it gives me a sense of accomplishment. New larger settee openings and some added in the v-berth and I think you can see the enlarged chainlocker opening for added comfort working on the stem. doesn't matter though, it's all coming out and being repalced! I'm thinking green shag:D

[ebb]

Gad Mon! yer SERIOUS about this thing. Welcome to the 'how am I going to fit it all in' club!

Perhaps the most disagreeable thing about the remodel was grinding off the paint. It was messey, dusty, dirty, acrid, had glass particles everywhere. How did you manage?

[Richard]

...Makes these boats look almost spacious inside!

[Tony G]

Serious as a secretary! Spacious as a pea-pod! I'm wondering how I'm going to get everything in around the main hatch where I can stand up-right without hitting my head! For me, the whole trick was 30-40 degree temperatures. (uh-that's Fairenheight NOT Celcius, Geoff) I can't afford one of those forced air respirators so my goggles fog-up as soon as I start to exhert myself if it starts getting warmer. Natural indicator of when it's starting to become more work than fun!
I can only squeeze in about two hours in the mornings somewhere in the 6:30 to 8:30 slot so I can get ready for work on time. The usual garb...tyvek cover alls, gloves, mandatory bandana, cartridge respirator, goggles(vent holes taped), and hearing protectors. my neighbor doesn't know what I'm doing but is afraid to come over when he sees the bandana:p
At the end of each 'session' I document the days activities in a log. The same log I keep track of expenses in :mad:

[Mike Goodwin]

Tony,
Try putting a box fan across the forward hatch and the main hatch , one blowing in and one blowing out, or both blowing out if the side windows are out. I have 2 30" fans for boat work and they sure help in moving the air. I got them at the Dollar Store for $10 ea.

[marymandara]

you arie guys have TONS of room! i'm the guy who lived on a commander, remember? i need to raise the sole in the triton about a foot just so i will feel at home!<G>

actually, one thing i had always planned to do was to build the quarterberths up higher to actually gain some stowage and to put them at a standard chair height of around 18-12 inches, so i did not have to feel like i was eating/sitting/whatever at the child's table on thanksgiving at gramma's, as well as to gain a bunch of stowage area. don't know about the ariel, but commander quarteberths are nearly wide enough for two. had also planned on making something more like 22 or 24 inches with a backrest (enclosed) to give more room for stowage again. definitely need to do that on the triton, with mary and jess along i will need all that extra space just for TP! if only i could guarantee availability of the correct product in mexico/south pac., i would be installing a ticket dispenser instead. anybody remember the tickets? they double as 320 grit paper, too!<G>

tony, whatcha gonna do with dat sink?
ebb, remember how much i've always loved you!<G>

best,
dave

[Tony G]

Dave
If the sink passes inspection it goes back in. This time with a foot pump instead of a hand pump. The whole galley is going to get raised 7-8" so I can work standing up. My big question is what am I going to do with those drains? Mat and glass or seacocks, mat and glass or seacocks, mat and glass or sea cocks...:confused:

[Tony G]

...I should have added this one...

[ebb]

Wow! Lookit that stepped ogee on yer cockpit brace. Looks like a regular piece of furniture. Seriously, it's amazing how that piece of 3/4" jigsaw made the cockpit deck so much stiffer.

When I started this project on 338 I was an inch taller. My DNA is already mutating, I'm sure, so that when launching day comes I'll be 4'6" - perfect for an Ariel, both below and on deck. Actually I'm convinced that being fitted with telescoping prosthesis, like twist and lock boathooks, would better serve the human stowage problem.

Thanks Capt. Mike. Starboard side quarter berth seems natural. Why the kitchen has to be port side, I read once, had to do with an Englishman's lunch being always prepared on the starboard tack. Is this true? Tradition!

The 25D must have wider buttocks than the Ariel. Yesterday I marked in a line on the hull interior under the stbd locker two inches higher than the berth in the cabin. This 'waterline' reaches only about 3/5s of the way aft towards the rising stern. A foam matress will raise it and increase that length, but for me the space left would be claustrophobic. [The 25D seems to have more width AND more heigth as the bridge deck instead of having the nice curve that the Ariel has is straight and higher inside - it looks that way in a photo from the internet.] I'll be able to get legs up to my knees in there.

The 25D also raised that quarter berth looks like 4 to 6 inches under the cockpit, and it extends out into the cabin in way of the bridge. No comparison to the Ariel. The Ariel is more like a tern than a duck! What with matress and bedding there really won't be much room in an Ariel quarter berth! The locker room under would still be a flat, pointy triangular volume, with difficult access, and hardly suited even to a tank.

With all the quarter berth space the Commander has, I was fantasizing a stretch Ariel like the stretch limos you see here in the wine country. You know, like maybe 36'7" long?? Look like hell, but just think of the party you could have!!! Eveybody crawlingf around... but with enuf beer and martinis....noone would be feeling the lumps on their heads!

[Tony G]

Hooray for cool, dry air! At last. Bulkheads? What bulkheads? We don't have no stinking bulkheads. Man oh man Ebb, I can see why you left your's in place. Even with that what appeared to be serious rot these things don't just fall out. I removed 5-6" of the v-berth on each side and the sole just forward of the main bulkhead in preparation and to allow for grinding room. then I cut through the tabbing for and aft and gave it a good shove. Then another. Then more grinding. Another shove followed by a "nudge" with my foot. All to no avail. Because I prefer to cut things out instead of tear I gave my cuts another inspection. I could see light coming from the other side along nearly 75% of the tabbing but it wouldn't swing more than 2" back and forth. Then I noticed a little bit of tabbing that had lifted off of the 3/4" plywood so I began peeling along the length of the seam top to bottom and viola! She broke free. I sat for nearly a half hour just googling ove all of the room and potential. More to come...

[ebb]

Tony,
Looks like yer ready to drop her in! Spacious look of a Hunter. Like the workaday placement of tools for that natural DIY effect!
Haven't found one of those yellow drop lights myself...Was in some sort of auto shop when I first saw it, the guys there would literally toss it on the floor and retrieve it by its cord!

What Dave said bout gaining stowage by raising the V-berths - Baldwin did it in his Triton - For me there is barely enough sitting headroom as it is! Add 4" foam...and b a m m m. So how much height would you add?

Just to be difficult, I've being talking with an Airhead guy about fitting one of his 20" tall composters in where the Portosmello goes in the Ariel. I started the exchange out by suggesting they design one more like the size of a normal wethead. He said they've just begun working on it. And I wasn't the first whiner. I like the idea so much I may get a tall one (they're 300% overpriced) in a weak moment and may have to raise the berths so the filler piece can swing over the toilet for the 'double,' The seat can be detatched from the unit to get a negative gain of two inches. There'll only be sitting under the hatch. BUT, it is an elegant way to have no stinking seacocks & thruhulls. No hoses, and no holding tank! S h e e e s h ... what else do you want from a head?

But while I do the structural changes I also try to imagine what the berths in the cabin would look like if they were RAISED! Talk about not being able to sit. Even with the bertths low as they are, I, for one, can't sit unless I take my head off. Can't see the interior now without somesort of dinette, a two seater, or even a one seater. Serious. Might as well raise the cabin berths to gain stowage, no?

Right, didn't quite have the cojones to take the whole bulkhead out as you did! What a relief to open her up like that! Almost indecent! Be interesting to see what you finish up with. Onward.....

[Tony G]

Ebb
What goes back in won't be that much different from the original set-up. Just updating the old gal for the next fourty years. Raising the setees would give a little more storage but at the cost of too much head room lost. I too have to sit facing fore or aft in order to keep from pinning my chin to my chest. We're hoping to just organize the interior stowage and utilize the space better. I'm even toying with lowering the cabin sole an inch or so just to get a wee bit more head room. Of course then we'll have to walk a tight rope. No, I'm afraid there won't be anything too radical happening here, just a few curves and new curtains and such. This one won't get to be a world cruiser, just a weekend cabin somewhere in Minnesota. Then again we have several customers that used to sail the Bahamas when they were Floridians and they highly recomend I do the same;)

[ebb]

An unsupported (in the middle) xompression beam can be a little un settling to look at, I guess. Someone has said that a single compression post was great to grab and swing yourself around with, in or out of the V-berth area. So you could keep it wide with that fine laminated beam you have, supported at the ends, and use a curtain for privacy, rather than that tiny opening the originals have.

I've just removed the 1/4" teak ply in small jagged pieces from the sole. It was tough as nails and stuck down with a mean rubber mastic. In some places we pulled the glass cloth coating off the the 3/4" stuff underneath. But instead of the mystery space between the teak sole and the hull sides, now we can see that the sole is glassed in in the usual way to the hull, and it'll be a piece of cake to cut the plywood out. IMCO it would be easy to lower it.

Intend to take it out, clean out the last of the original remaining paint from the bilge, glass in lateral supports in the form of frp bulkheads or floors, and reclose it at about the same height thereby creating an extra tank. For rum. Or gin. A very stiff bilge tank. Whats keeping me in check at the moment are decent waterproof cleanout hatches at a realistic price. Each bay needs access
.
Certainly top it off with some sort of wood deck.

Will you go like this? It certainly is a great place for a water or waste tank!

[ebb]

From the Penn State Industries catalog, I quote:
"Ideal for wood dust! This patented product uses a snorkel-like mouthpiece for breathing. One size fits all and avoids the "beard problem." Air is filtered from the rear with a .3 micron filter media and is exhausted downward from your face and avoids fogging glasses or goggles, The air tubes sit comfortably on your shoulders, are light weight and are positioned to the rear to breathe fresh air. A nose clip is included to avoid breathing dust ladened air. Includes filters."

What the photo shows is a guy chomping down on a yellow mouth piece, a tube angled straight down on his chin and the air intake tubes going back at his jaw line ending in a bugle shape that must be the filter. He is wearing goggles way up on the top of his nose, about as far away from a respirator as you can imagine. I wear a front valved 3M dust mask usually that goes over mouth and nose plus glasses and goggles. Always fogged up even when I purposefully breath in thru the nose and blow out thru the mouth.

Imagine there's nothing like a fullface mask with airflow down the face from an airpump somewhere out in the clean air. Or there is a slightly cheaper one where you wear the pump and filter on the waist. Hundreds. This new thing might be a decent compromise at $45, filters $8, mouthpieces $4. Might get some agression out on the pacifyer effect of the mouthpiece and implant a sunny image of diving one day on a bahamian reef in warm crystal clear waters. Grindon mcduff!:eek:

[Hull376]

Ebb,

My new floor circa February. That Black ---- er, stuff holding down the old 1/4" fancy plywood was a real challenge to get off. The nails were just as hard to deal with as the aformentioned black hardened rubbery goo. I had to reglass the top of the 3/4" deck before putting on the new teak and holly. Save your pennies because the new 4X8 sheet of T and H really put a dent in my wallet. Found only one place in Houston to get it. :mad:

[ebb]

Capt. Kent,
Can only hope what I began in a fit of pique,
will end up as nice as your deck of teak!:D

[Tony G]

Ebb
We're not really sure what is going in the bilge yet. Ideas have ranged from water tank, fuel tank(Aussie Geoff), sealed battery box(box and battery),sealed storage, cold storage...certainly something more than just a bilge pump or two. Mr. Baldwin, and others, have dropped in some nice storage here.
Yes I have toyed with the idea of just a compression post in the center or just off center hidden in a bulkhead enabling me to enclose the head forward. I just couldn't find enough room to make it agreeable though. That and the fact that you'd have to step on the hull go forward which might be tricky with a little heeling. I think that works best on beamy hulls(Commanders excluded of course). But I definitely will widen the passage way through the bulkhead. I was forever catching or scraping something on the old one!
Funny you should mention respirators. I was just shopping for a full face jobby that could run in either negative or positive pressure mode. All of this grinding is steaming up my glasses and because I have so much of it left to do on this boat and then another boat to start after this one I'm thinking maybe an upgrade isn't such a selfish idea.
Anyway this is the neat part...

[Tony G]

When I was cleaning up some of the dust I ran across this little relic. It's a pencil line one of the workers at pearson had drawn on the hull to mark the bulkhead location. I like this kind of stuff.

[ebb]

well I'll be... ... ...
don't think they gave out pencils to the guy who pasted 338 together!
(Actually, Pearson had one pencil and it wore out by the time they got to 338!)
did find a word with an arrow
embeded in the laminate
(you could only see it when the sun shone thru)
on the forward port coach roof pointing to the little opening port
- it said "window"

[Tony G]

'Worked late last night, woke late today, went out to the boat to find this...

[Tony G]

...and this:D !

[Greg]

Tony,

Are you going to leave the cabin liner intact? It appears to be just about the only thing left inside. I have wondered what is under there, you know, what would happen if I just took it out. It doesn't fit all that closely...at least in 105 it doesn't. Might make port light replacement a little lbit easier without it. Jus' wonderin'.

[ebb]

Pretty impressive prep work there!
How many of us know what a rotton job it is,
and how much you got to love that boat.
Has any Ariel/Commander been this nude inside
since Pearson put them together?

Greg, punch in 'cabin liner' on the SEARCH button to read up on discussions historical.

It would take a lot of troweling and fairing to get something close to the liner's original finish. It would have to be fair for any added fabric/foam headliner to look good. If you wanted a wood strip roof. I would first consider taking just the part of the molded liner off that would be replaced.

Jim Baldwin's method of rebuilding his windows used the coach sides and the liner separation (1/4 to 3/8" space) filled with epoxy gel. This must add considerable rigidity to the sides and the installation. I'm just about to do a version of this myself. Baldwin then floated in lexan and used the original aluminum frames as clamps by thru bolting. He's circumnavigated his Triton twice. To me this is a perfect upgrade, adding a lot of strength to the windows and the coach sides - without having to add clunky framing inside and out.

The dead air space between the two moldings must add insulation.
Any thru-holes will have to be done in the predrill oversize, fill, and drill again method to make sure no water gets in between. And, ofcourse this method creates standoffs so that when you tighten a fastening you won't distort the liner.

Liners have permanent distortions in them now, but after yon fill and sand the upgrades I think I would finish off with a light colored satin paint, so the wobbles won't show. If one was really pickey judicious drill and fill might be used to straighten the liner! But who's that nuts?:eek:

Proposed nutcake liner fairing method:

[I'ld drill a hole where the liner had to be pushed out or drawn in. I'ld use a panhead screw to mechanically and temporarily push or pull the liner. I'd drill another hole close by, probably larger, and squirt in gel using the big two ounce syringe. When set, and glued, back out the adjusting screw. I'ld do this from outside. After the liner was set, fill in all the other holes with the syringe I'ld have a bunch of these fills to do at the same time. The liner would become rock solid.]

[Tony G]

Greg
The cabin liner will remain a resident, though, like yours I suspect, it doesn't fit that snug to the cabin top. That loose fit was the cause of much distress to me early on before I discovered the soft, flakey plywood at the base of the main bulkhead. Now it just lends to the character of 113:p This liner currently has alot of holes in it and in the end will have a alot of new ones in it from hardware and such. It would be nice to have a clean, continuous headliner in the main cabin not accented by acorn nuts. As to what's under there, I cut some large oval shaped holes in the cavities behind the port and starboard nav lights on the side of the cabin top so I could lay in some fabric and matting to close up the holes left by said light removal. That was the best look I've had at the underside of the cabin top. It appears to be of the same texture and quality as the v-berth area. Keep in mind that I've only seen an area about 40 square inches. I think removing the cabin liner could be a bit of a bear when you get to the underside of the deck where they attach to each other. I'd probably cut it out in sections taking the areas where it floats freely first and then work back to the points of attachment. Those 24 grit sanding(butchering) discs are efficient at fiberglass removal.
Just as an aside-make first couple of pieces of equipment you buy a good respirator and goggles before so much as sanding off some paint.

[Tony G]

General call for imput here. Shortly after bringing 113 home I notices what looked to be a long, nasty repair job on the port side of her hull. Given the location I guessed someone took a glancing blow somewhere along the line and who really cares now because she had been repaired (less than flawlessly) so you wouldn't notice it twenty feet away. Then one day I happened to notice a scar on the starboard side too! In the process of taking some pretty thorough measurements before starting my chop job it became apparent that those 'scars' were directly behind the stringers that run for and aft through the main cabin. Imprinting! My dangerous little mind thought.:eek:
Digging around for information I've found gobs of it out there. Opinions Galore (remember that James Bond movie?) but I want to know what this group's members think. I spent the morning working with some dense, rigid material that I would call styrofoam but who really knows what the stuff is called now. It doesn't crush more than 1/32"(ish) under my full weight with a 3/4" edge riding on it and later today I'll give it the epoxy resin melt test.
Please give freely and liberally, your opinions.
Tony G

[Tony G]

Here's a rough idea in case any of you were wondering...

[ebb]

Well, Cappy, it's like this:
Noticed these same shadowy indent on 338 also. Certainly not scars! You can see them if the light is just right, but it's easier to feel them on 338.

Let's take those stringers: they are 1 1/2" wide, not 3/4", with a bunch of poly and mat tabbing them on. They are not under load like a bulkhead yet they've telegraphed thru the hull somehow.

I have not read any literature on this phenomenon.

The imprinting you read about is what happens when you place a hard edge against a thin, THIN, 'engineered' modern hull. You would put in a pillow to spread the load with filleting and tabbing, suspending the sharp edge of the bulkhead off the hull.

IMCO, you don't have to do this on the Ariel. If you think your old stringers, described above are imprinting then you better put in 10 inch wide styrofoam between the bulkhead and the hull. Correct?

338 has and will have all its plywood bulkheads put in dry, with large, 1 1/2" fillets (90 degree radius fillets take very little gel.) Then on major bulkheads two or three layers of mat with the narrowest put in first. This I believe widens the loads out even more. And the HOLD on the hull can be spread out as wide as you make your tabbing. At the compression bulkhead I would tab over the fillet 4", then 8", 12", 18". Well., something like that.

What arguement could there possible be that if both sides are done this way that anything is going to move? Maybe the boat will shrink! And thereby reveal the bulkhead?

Suspended bulkhead on foam? The upward pull of your upper shrouds is going to be opposed by your tabbing which is spread fairly wide on your hull. Maybe that's ok. Maybe I'ld add more tabbing.

If I remember 338's stringer imprint on the hull outside is slightly holloiw, ie there are two mini ridges. Of course the hull is thinner up there, and the imprint is lengthwise. Maybe the hulls weren't cured all the way when they added these things when they made them.:o

Would very much like to read anything on the subject of fiberglass boats changing shape, shrinking, becoming brittle (not gelcoat.) pre-OPEC oil crises (1973.) We get surface delamination from sun and heat, but shape-changing so that pasted on interior pieces would 'imprint'? On the Ariel, I don't think so.

What they did: they slapped the stringers on loaded with extra hot catylist. Braced them up with spring battens and let them smoke. On a not yet totally cured hull, That might cause distortion. I think it all happened at the factory. ARGUEMENTS?

[marymandara]

FWIW, Commander #280 has aa pair (one per side) of indentations similar to those described wight where the stringers for the v-berth shelves go.
Dave

[ebb]

Not near the boat right now, but next time I'll get the trouble light and make marks on the hull. Awhile ago we lightly sprayed some dark grey laquer primer over the topsides. sanded it with a flexible long board, and came up with a depressing number dark areas. They've faded.

Dave sys his V-berth stringers on his Commander show up outside.

338, just below the sheer, has two 3' long (1/4" deep in the center) lozenge-shaped hollows in front of where the companionway bulkhead is. Last week I sighted an earlier hull (#175) that was perfectly fair in that area. 'Course it was relaxed in the water - I may have developed these hollows while sitting in the jacks. ??

So what I will look for are the vertical imprints, I really don't think they are there - but I will find out.

Trying to imagine the schedule for putting these boats together, the stringers would have to go in after the bulkheads, but befor the tabbing. So I don't see how the hull could not be cured. You have to be working inside without the wax coat on. And the deck mold wouldn't be on yet. So the hull had to be out of the mold? and free standing? No. Had to be in the mold because the deck had to meet the hull 1/8" tto 1/8" all the way around! So you'ld have to really slap all the fundamentals in like fast. Maybe I can't imagine how fast. Maybe the boat was still hot when they rolled it out into the sun, ready to launch!

Some boats have these horizontal imprint anomalies, some don't. Some have these hollows, like 338. So maybe on another post we can figure out the best way to take care of the problem, if it is a problem? Leave it and love it? Or fill, fair and fiddle?

[commanderpete]

The imprinting is caused by the shelf "working" against the hull. In all likelihood, one or more of the partial bulkheads (to which the shelf is attached) have come loose. The interior of the boat is being pulled against the exterior.

I had this problem on my boat. I had an "innie" imprint on one side and an "outie" imprint on the other. I re-tabbed the loose bulkheads. Pictures of that repair are on the first page of the Deck Joint thread.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?s=&threadid=313&pagenumber=1

Tony is going to solve the problem during his clean sweep and reconstruction. Nice work, by the way. I feel your pain.

As for other boats with this problem, I wouldn't panic. If your boat gets normal usage, I doesn't require immediate repair. It may get worse, albeit slowly. Still, it will have to be addressed. Movement is never a good thing.

On the outside, I faired the hull with microlight and painted the hull. Thats strictly cosmetic.

[ebb]

C'pete sir,
We have an digression of opinion, based on personal observation.

The shelves in 338 took an act of congress to deconstruct, What had a chance to move were the stubby pieces that held the forward and aft chainplates - they hadn't moved because of the thickness of mat tabbing holding them to the hull - tho there was some rot on the tops. They hadn't moved even tho they were being steadily pulled from the top by the chainplates. The bottom of the forward chainplates were glassed to the shelf!

So all 4 sets of shelves helped the stringers to keep the hull from flexing - or from working. On 338. As I observed, the hull topside on the exact opposite side of the stringer shows a (faint) double imprint of the stringer construction inside. I think the mark comes from extra hot tabbing that was probably used to fix the stringers in place DURING CONSTRUCTION of our boats.

The polyester is hard as a rock. Something would have to be forced against the hull inside to have any effect outside and it would be in the form of a big bow or billow. Even a relatively sharp 3/4" line of ply. The stringer is a 1 1/2" square piece of mahogany that is fairly massively pasted to the hull, 2" wide minimum. I don't think the polyester is gummy enough to imprint the stringers locally as we observe.

The topsides are thinner the closer you get to the sheer, BUT how thin and how flexible would they have to be to make an exact picture of the stringer inside?

The marks had to have occured in the soft early stage of construction when the whole boat was new. That's the only time that something added to the inside would be able to suck a localized area of the hull into an imprint. Kind of like a love bite.:D

[Tony G]

I'm having flashbacks of college philosophy...never the issue always the argument:)
Scrap the syro?

[ebb]

Seems like a very important issue.
Don't have to be persuaded by opioions,
we can lean with our prevailing prejudices.
I'm not a lawyer, just an observer and an
Ariel owner with no axe to grind, doing
the best I can for #338.

Somebody once told me, a poet needs
only a 500 word vocabulary to write the
greatest poems. I know I'm too windy
and use too much color. Still a working
stiff, still dreaming, still trying to get it
straight. Blah de blah

If we ain't having fun yet, I will shut up!

Look, there certainly isn't anything structurally wrong putting in the bulkhead with the wide spread you got there. Let's see how it turns out. That's your gut feeling and it's innovative. My problem is with the assumptions. Are you going to be consistant and put your horizontals in with styro? All the rest of your tabbed in stuff?

Good glassing!
I've shot my 2-part wad on this subject.

[commanderpete]

Thats what we need around here---a battle of the fibre breathing dragons.:p

[Tony G]

Ebb,
We'll have the weird science thing going on in 113. Running our own experiment that is. The lower aft chainplate knees were bonded directly to the hull and when I get to laying tabbing I'm just going to follow the same schedule as I'm putting down elsewhere. So, only in the end will we know if the styro will make a difference on the main bh.

When we were busy cutting things apart I noticed that the wood components of the knees, bulkheads and berths were not bonded directly to or riding on the hull except for some ares where the funky, blue colored 'bondo' wads were here and there. I'd have to say the bulk of the strength/ rigidity/ integrity whatever we want to call it came from the tabbing. Somewhere here I have a pic I snapped just after removing one side of the main bh and you can kind of make out the 3/8" to 1/2" high ridges of tabbing sticking up and when I cut through I was cutting under the plywood.

I ain't no lawyer neither, Ebb. I like to think we're among friends here:D Actually, I have lawyers, Feds and spooks in my family, we don't understand each other very well:( Tony G

[Tony G]

This isn't the exact picture I was looking for, sometimes I get a little delete happy. But if you squint your eyes just right in low light you can make out the depth. From now on I won't erase anything until the dust settles-uh, so to speak.

[Tony G]

Yeah, you're probably right. What I'm looking at more than likely happened during construction. Pete's innie and outie may very well have come from movement. But now I've got twenty minutes tied up into cutting these stinking styro pads and damn it I'm gonna use 'em:D

[commanderpete]

The styro pads are a good idea.

[Tony G]

Ahh, Minnesota. Where else can you go from cooling fans to heaters inside a week? No kidding, the last sanding I did to smooth things out, well, as smooth as you can get with 80 grit, was just bearable with a fan blowing down on me from the forward hatch. A few days later as soon as the last layer of matting went on I started digging around for a small space heater to keep the temp inside in the seventies.
About nine hours to install beam, cut patterns and fiberglass, mix epoxy, roll, etc.. Judging from all of the work Ebb has done he must be a machine!

[Tony G]

Here's the view from the cubby hole

[ebb]

You do nice work there, buddy.

What I like especially is the tabbing you did on the bulkhead to get that beautyful line! It takes time to make patterns. It takes time to do it right.

Very impressed!!! Happy boat!!!

That beam is a real sunbeam!

[ from Fiberglass Boats by Hugo du Plessis (Adlard Coles, 1966)
Pg 57 in the section titled, "Hard Spots and Stress Concentrations:

"Many hard spots do not appear until several months after the boat has been moulded, not until the moulding has cured, contracted and settled down. Some moulders would probably be surprised to see how noticeable the hard spots have become six months later, and there is no doubt that some, particularly the hard spots associated with bulkheads, are due to contraction during cure.
Most stress concentrations will give no trouble in normal service because a good design will have an adequate factor of safety. But these hard spots are in fact eating into the factor of safety, so that when the overload comes, an impact or a sudden squall, the factor of safety is not there. The moulding will fail, whereas one without hard spots would not,
1. Round off all sharp corners...
2. Broaden and taper off the root of all bulkheads and shelves. Keep bulkheads and incompressible members from direct contact with the skin, so that the strain is taken on the broad-based angle fillets, or use a soft padding between the bulkhead and the hull.
3. End one structural member at another, or fade it into the skin...
4. Make all changes in thickness gradually....
5. Radius all corners...
6. Bolt or fasten all stressed fittings through blocks....
7. Make or pad fittings or woodwork to fit...

Distribute all loading and stress.
Visuallize how the moulding will deflect.
How can any stress concentrations be avoided."

Tho we go to him for his experience, the trouble, as we know, with any expert is that we have his predjudices or opinions to weed thru, as well as the heat level of his persuasion. His saying that the skin will fail at a point load (the boat twisting probably in "a sudden squall") is unsupported by any examples or fotos. Not to say that I doubt it. However, what you are doing IS substantiated by the guy who IMCO wrote the first (and best) manual on the subject.]

[Hull376]

Say Ebb,

I took a close look at 376 this weekend, and you can clearly see the horizontal line made by the port main cabin shelf on the outside of the hull. Nothin on the stbrd side, though. When I first noticed this a few years back, I thought maybe my dad hit something 20 or 30 years ago, got a crappy fix-it job, and maybe he was too embarrassed to tell me about it! He took off part of the rudder one year at Johnson Island near Cedar Point on Lake Erie--- I didn't know till I recently found the repair invoice in an old file. But it definitely is the shelf imprint as opposed to poor seamanship of yesteryear. And the imperfection has so many dips and bobs in it that it could only have happend during the curing process. I'll photo it if I think about it.

[ebb]

Capt Kent,
No problem upgrading yer Dad's seamanship, eh?

What's interesting with these long imprints on Commanders & Ariels(rather than vertical) is that they are not by definition 'hard spots.' Are they?

They are cosmetic, not structural. And they occured at the birthing, not later as the supposed 'working' of the hull.

So that is why I call du Plessis on his unsubstantiated assumption that these hard spots are somehow dangerous. No doubt they are on ultra-light over engineered racing machines. And some boatshow sailboats and powerboats.

I can see perhaps that if you hit a piling on an unsupported section of the hull it could deflect and return to shape with minimal delamination and damage. While if the hull was hit where a bulkhead was you might get some crunching or a hole, depending on whether it was gasketed or not. I don't know. I would really like to hear what an engineer has to say on this, who has direct experience with frp hulls. Or some credible survey of damage to boats after an Isabel.

For what it's worth: On our hard relatively thick skinned old hulls it is ok to paste on edges of plywood and cleats if the join is filleted and tabbed.

Since that is what I'm doing to 338,
I'm seriously open to any call on my practice.

It is possible that an old fiberglass hull can be thought of as more BRITTLE. Has any expert spoken to this? Haven't seen it. The 5 or 6 points of du Plessis' are the way to go.


[I meant to add: Last weekend I did some filling and fairing. Between spurts of damn longboarding I did a lot of eyeballing from the stern up the sides.
It became clear that C'pete's observation that one side of his babe was out - t'other side in.... could be seen on 338, as well. Not exactly the same, but one side of 338 is more fair than the other going forward. Must be why I've almost anthropomorphosized the Ariel whose left and right symetries are a little off. Each one of our boats has its own special character!]:D ,,,,,,,yea!........

[Tony G]

Damn the companies that produce 'rubberized' paints and pitty the fools that use it! Althought it has great non-skid properties and remains soft and forgiving, it is a real pain to remove. Grinding/sanding turns it into a hot, stinky, sticky mess. Scrapers are completely ineffective. Not being one to turn to chemicals as readily as before, it seems heat is most effective means of removal. This is about fifteen hours into the job:(

[Tony G]

...like Buffett said, "Gawd I wish I was sailing again."

[ebb]

Tony, you're back! [aching back]
What Buffet is that, Warren? He sails boats of laminated $1000 bills?

But I like your deck there. Definitely non-skid as it is! Great cobble-stone look. One way to look at the coating - is how hard it is to get off. That's a good thing. But what you planning to put on: LPU and what kind of non-skid?:confused:

[Tony G]

Yes, I've allways been here lurking below the surface, studying, watching and reading. The one thing I haven't been doing much of is working on 113. Really looking forward to getting started though now that the cotton wood trees are nearly done blooming. I've finally learned that you just can't paint, varnish or 'poxy until after the fourth of July around our neighborhood.

Jimmy Buffett used to sail before he started making money like Warren;) Aren't all of the new boats-eh hmm-yachts-made of laminated $1000 bills? When I read the reviews with prices listed it sure seems like they are. Sure, sometimes I too lust. But I know inside this is all the boat I need.

I never looked at the paint issue that way. If I knew I'd never have to make repairs to the deck again I might be persuaded to use this silly rubber paint again. I've been called a damned fool more than once, thank you. But I guess we'll just go with something simple like Interlux for the nonskid. Just as an aside, I won a bet with the Mrs. and SHE'S buying the Awlgrip and supplies. All two or three gallons!!!:D

First I have to fair those decks a little. Then fill in a couple of holes and then make some new ones and then finish it off with some fillets and such. Then maybe paint. Who knows, I'm really at the mercy of retail public. Tony G

P.s. send pictures...

[ebb]

Hal Roth (How to Sail Around the World) uses one part poly and coarse sand for the decks on his yachts. If I remember: wet coat, sprinkle on sand with sugar shaker, two more coats on top.

If the boat is going to get used a lot, cruised, the arguement is safe sure footing and the ability to repair the surface easily. No nonsense.

If you're going cruising. this book has a huge helping of great practical tips.

I don't want to be convinced that I need a 36 grit surface on the deck!
But, we don't have that much deck. When I think of having to go forward on a heaving boat streaming with green water on a dark and stormy night.....:eek:

[Tony G]

Wow! Am I excited or what! A new layer to the project. These last couple of weeks when ever I go up the ladder my wandering eye slides over those 'cracks' in the paint on the hull. Only 113's hull has never been painted, just the decks...

[Tony G]

Anybody cringing yet? Other than me, that is. You bet! At least 50-75 per side and I haven't even gone below the boot stripe yet. Well, I guess she'll be a new yacht through and through.

NOTICE
Now accepting volunteers for fun, rewarding positions in grinding and filling.

[ebb]

Tony,
Can't really make out if those chips are in the paint,
or are chips in the gelcoat, and what we see, the dark stuff, is another layer of paint,
or is the original poilyester layup of the hull.

Either way, it is an interesting problem.

[Tony G]

I'm sorry, my head must have been a little cloudy from all the GLUE I'VE BEEN SNIFFING! After another hour of digging I've unearthed 200 to 300 on the port side:(

Ebb, it appears that the gel coat is poc marked, for lack of a better term. At the moment I'm fighting depression at the thought of dishing, filling and fairing all of these holes. Thank the Big One that this is a worth while craft or I'd be havin' a bon fire! The dark color underneath is the fiberglass. Looks like matt but I'm not sure of the laminate schedule used by Pearson. The 1/4" diameter ones are a true 1/16" deep. The little pin head ones are less. Less deep that is, still a big PIA.
Anybody on our site experience joy like this yet? Sounds like what Tim L. went through with Glissando. Well, in up to my eyeballs, Tony G

P.s. I'll post more pics if that helps:D

[Hull376]

Here's an archive shot of the turn of my bilge. These pock marks were discoved when removing the bottom paint. Couldn't see what the surface looked like, because the grinder removed the paint and some of the gel coat at the same time. Kind of looks like your chips, but mine were all below waterline, and in places where ebb thinks maybe the resin gun at the factory might have been spluttering out, leaving air holes. But who knows? I fixed it all by removing the gel coat from the problem areas, then rolled on about 5 coats of vinylester on the bottom before the bottom paint. Got a good finish (not excellent) but also fixed the problem. Not a solution for your topsides problem-- won't be smooth enough.

[ebb]

for what it's worth,
338 has those pocs, very simular, where ever I have sanded thru thr gelcoat - or almost thru the gelcoat - I'm only assuming that it is the nature of the gelcoat just after they sprayed it on and were laying on the mat - the first layer of the laminate. I've come across this topside and on deck.

When 338 was coming out of the water and being surveyed, Capt Roger found some five or six suspicious bumps in the antifouling. I forgot about them and they "diaappeared" The hull was taken down to the gelcoat some time later and they have remained disappeared. Have since found out that this is common. If the bumps were true blisters, they are still ther and will reappear.

The isophthalic polyester in our hulls does not produce the modern blisters. But obviously air pockets and/or incomplete mixing problems, foreign material or almost anything could cause isolated or uncommon problems in the A/C gelcoat.

The mat under the gelcoat on 338 doesn't seem to be very thick. Blisters are a phenomenon that appear at the interface of gelcoat and mat. An assumption I have to make is that any free chemicals that didn't get catalysed in the original hull layup MUST be long since gone.
Afterall the hull is semi=permeable, water flushed you could say.

Most of the blisters I've observed on other boats are symetrical like boils. They ARE boils, under pressure with chemical and salt water cocktail. What I see in your foto looks irregular, angular. Almost as if they are externally caused damage. Like an anchor? Halloween prank? Maybe badly patched by the DFO and reappearing. I would get close with a magnifying glass. Get some oblique light on the hull to see if ther are anymore bumps ready to hatch. But by definition, age. material it can't be your normal everyday blisters.

Personally, I would do two stage epoxy. Laminate Part A, Slow hardner Part B. Soak the holes, wipe them 'dry.' Fill with epoxy/cabosil gel. I disagree with polyester on polyester cold patching and underwater repairs.

[Greg]

So...you've got those too, eh? I had lots (didn't count 'em) and they looked to me like bubbles in the first layup that didn't get rolled out. I filled the ones that I found and stopped thinking about the ones I didn't find. Maybe not as scrupulously honest as I sometimes claim to be, but stuff like that can get downright depressing.

I was thinking that it was because our hulls are sort of close together in the run of things (105 and 113), but since ebb and others have found similar goings-on, I think it's just carelessness in the construction. I, at least, cannot blame anything on the ravages of saltwater, 105 is a strictly freshwater boat.

During this loooong de- and re-construction, I have found all kinds of things that can be put down to the same carelessness, but she is, after all, an elderly lady, so I give her and her builders the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, don't do what I did as far as grinding those little bubbles out. I used a sander and made myself lots of work filling and fairing, an effort which continues today. I wonder sometimes why I always do things wrong the first time, you'd think I could guess right at least once in a while. One nice thing is, I sure am learning a lot about the boat and how I should have done things the first time.

[willie]

We had the same pocs below the w/l on 350. Only below the turn of the bilge. But there was a bunch. Decided they weren't blisters after reading all i could find. I decided to pressure wash, after ginding down all the paint/ gel coat, then let 'em dry good for a couple days. Painted areas with epoxy, then faired with epoxy and colloidal silica. Then we did a barrier coat and bottom paint. I think she's pretty well taken care of. Guess we'll find out in a few yrs.

I didn't find anything like what you have above w/l, and i took her down to the gel coat.

Hopefully they'll be in small patches and easy to take care of:rolleyes:

[Tony G]

Wew! I don't feel so alone anymore. Thanks for therapeutic support all. Thanks for the pic Kent, it's always nice to have someone step up and say,'that ain't bad, look at this!' At least now if/when I get to the bottom I shouldn't freak out.
I reviewed and reread the Gougeon Brothers, Casey, Lackey and it's just going to be more work. No way around it. Nothing catastrophic...it's just that I'm only now getting to May's work in August. 'Hoping for a big late in the season push to get back on schedule or close. Once again I've been chasing the $buck$ instead of working on my soul, my boat. This is how carma works, isn't it?

[ebb]

In 2055, 50 years from now, there'll be tonys, kents, williies, gregs & ebbs - maybe grandkids and surely those who make fortunate discoveries (like having an Ariel or Commander find them!) - they'll be gathering to trade observations on the centenial restorations the old girls are enduring. We're all doing the work that'll take them on to their next refurbishment. Giving them sweat and life and keeping them sailing for the good little princess they are. Oh yeah!

[marymandara]

I didn't have any on the topsides of T397, but a gazillion on the bottom. They appeared after I abrasively removed all the paint and did a bit of fairing-by-gelcoat-lump-removal. The spots that didn't just pop open showed up as little short lines or halfmoons, which once pressed at with a jackknife were just the same thing.

These are no big deal (unless they are topside and you have to fill 'em all, hehe) in a structural sense or whatnot...the outer layer of matting just didn't get saturated all the way thru in a way that would have bonded it completely to the gelcoat and there were little air bubbles there. Wouldn't take it as indicative on the rest of the laminate, either. These boats were all made in an incredibly resin-rich fashion...de-airing roller? Hunh? What?
The only roller these boats are likely to have seen was a paint roller dripping with resin which was used to both saturate (!) and smooth down the laminates. Makes perfect sense now, don't it?

Dave

[commanderpete]

Grinding back each of those little chips sounds like alot of work.

I would probably dewax the hull and just give them a once over with a sander or dremel attachment to knock out anything loose. Fill with a peanut butter of epoxy and microbaloons or microlite.

[Tony G]

Yeah, you're right. It does sound like a lot of work. We'll fiddle for the middle on the best way to get it done right with the least amount of swearing. But I'm okay with that as long as it cures the problem. My biggest fear now is missing a dozen or so and having them 'pop' open in a couple of years after I put the jizzilion dollar a gallon paint on. Isn't there a serenity prayer for sailors or want to be sailors?:rolleyes: Tony G

[marymandara]

Yep, goes like this:

(Insert appropriate deity or saint here) I hope this works!
( ") I hope this works!
( ") I hope this works!

[Tony G]

I thought I'd post these here so the threads don't get too unweildly.

This is the Dwyer boom fitting after some judicious filing. As it turns out they don't just slide into our extrusions. Next on the list is to mold an epoxy "T" that will be inverted and glued inside to (hopefully) make up for the material that I removed. Probably unnecessary but it's winter and what else is there to do?

[Tony G]

...a better view of just how much was removed...

[ebb]

Tony'
That slip fitting looks just fine!
Just fine the way it is. Will get plenty of strength from the surrounding boom extrusion especially if it's a close fit.
Any thoughts of anodizing or powder coating or otherwise painting the fitting befor it goes in the extrusion?

Ballenger's parts for the 338 mast were all clear anodized.

[Tony G]

Ebb,

Well, like I said, they don't just slide right in. the attached pic should explain it alot better than my fumbling words about the screen can do.

Dwyer has the same dimensions on the outside but a drastically differing profile or shape. Our extrusions have a teardrop shape while theirs have an almost perfect eliptical outside profile.

So while I shaved off the shoulders a bit I'll have to build up the sides to give a snug fit inside the boom. That fit is what, I believe, will give it strength at the union between the boom and the new pieces. That will be more evident when I get to the outhaul fitting where it will have even less material left after the file. I keep picturing it 'flipping' out of the boom end and shooting toward the mast head. How will I ever overcome that?

[Tony G]

so you see, the paint still on the 'shoulder' will have to be removed so I can build up that area with epoxy. Then it'll probably just get some bright side to cover it.

[ebb]

Tony, despair not!

www.caswellplating.com

I fixed the deadlight frames with a one part aluminum putty/paint from these guys.
The frames went thru the powdercoat baking process no problema.

There are a number of metal fillers with video names. Get the aluminum filled one they use on mufflers or is it engine blocks. Hey. WHAT kind of epoxy is THAT? :D


[Hit the 'Repair' bar then look for Lab Metal. I used the lower priced stuff without problem. Don't have any tips really on using it. Painted it on, it is a loose paste, one part, let it set up. Filed like metal. Get the solvent too. It might not even be epoxy....YEA!

There are two part putty sticks like Aluminox and Permatex makes putties too, never used them. Even West System, has aluminum powder to mix yer own. But the high temp stuff is more intriguing. And I vouch for Lab Metal. It goes on wet. I felt I got something that LIKED aluminum, looks like aluminum, and became aluminum.] LYCKA TILL :rolleyes:

[Tony G]

It's like that old Buck Owens song, "there won't be nothing left when she gets through with me." This is before Tony's file....

[Tony G]

This is the 'underbelly' of the outhaul piece. The upper mainsheet block will ride on a stainless bail that will be bolted through the boom and outhaul assembly with a corresponding compression tube (or whatever it's really called).

[Tony G]

In honor of Frank Lloyd Wright I busted through the snow drifts and ice into my shop tonight after work. It has it's own type of 'organic architecture' after a long winter's nap...it smells like a cat turd!!! Mr. Wright, surely, would not approve.

Because of these new fittings, the overall boom length had grown. So I decided to cut some off each end to get rid of the old screw holes and what not. A fine opportunity to start anew...

[Tony G]

'not so much off of this end though.

[Tony G]

I'm willing to swap this action photo for another action photo from any other member. I'd prefer something from a recent sail or sailing experience.

[Tony G]

From the tack to the aft end of the boom, not including the outhaul assembly, still works out to be 11'-11 3/8". At first I was worried about shortening the boom too much, but, it seems to be just fine (at this point).

[ebb]

Tony, Thanks for this photo series on the boom refit!!

[Tony G]

Ah-Ha! We got a bite. It's still cold in the shop up here in the hinterland. Sure would appreciate some California sunshine to get summer started...I was able to suffer through making some VHMW bushings for the goosneck fittings yesterday.

Now I'm trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to fit a 4:1 or 6:1 block system inside the boom for the outhaul. Oh yeah, I don't want it to be clanking around in there either(rubber padded blocks). I'd like to keep it inside the boom in order to save the outside surface for the reefing system. Of course, it could go between the goosneck and the mast step on the aftside of the mast but that area is already going to be pretty crowded.

If I can figure this one out then maybe we'll tackle the foil spreaders :cool: I'd like to paint the spars early this year in hope of getting my @#!whooping out of the way, right away, so then I'll have all summer to fix them :D

Any thoughts?

[Bill]

Now I'm trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to fit a 4:1 or 6:1 block system inside the boom for the outhaul.
Any thoughts?

The rigger who installed a four-to-one outhaul inside the boom on #76, built it in an aluminum tube and slid it into the boom. I believe the tube was split to give access for installing the blocks and line and was then folded closed as it went into the boom.

[Tony G]

Bill,

That's waaay better than what I was thinking. You guys on the coast(s) get all of the good stuff.

I have a couple of questions about 76's set up. Do you find the 4:1 purchase is enough to comfortably/easily adjust the outhaul? Is the fixed block in the system attached to the inner tube mechanically or is there a line attached to it that exits the boom and is tied off somewhere to 'fix' the block's location. Or, is it attached in some manner that my wee-little, land locked mind hasn't even thought of yet? Did the tube add much weight to the boom?

I realize some of these questions may require a trip to your boat to answere. And, of course, if at all possible take some pictures. :D

[Bill]

These days, I find the 4 to 1 advantage to be marginal when sailing to wind. May be due to my "maturity," but it (and a future jib halyard) is the reason for the port side cabin top winch. It may also no longer be 4 to 1 as there were two owners between selling the boat in 1988 and repurchasing it in 1997.

As for how it's done, sorry, but I don't have a clue. Had it installed by a local rigger who specialized in such things. I'm pretty sure the inner tube and hardware are mechanically fixed. As for weight, the tube material is pretty thin, so I don't think it's an issue.

[Tony G]

After weeks of low temps and cruddy weather, I finally got to do a little something on the boat. Whadyuh think? I was unsure at first, but after I painted a port frame on I like it!

I also added a buffet table to the aft end of the cockpit. Pictures will follow.

[Tony G]

Here's the new cockpit table. Big enough for the whole family and plastic covered for the little tykes that spill alot.

[Tony G]

Can you believe it? Someone was throwing this away! That should solve the 'head' problem. And the name...it says it all :D

[Tony G]

Another four consecutive hours of work. Something big could happen here.

[ebb]

Nice work there Tony, :D
What was the issue with the deck that led you to take all the gelcoat off. Did you have to recore?

Absolutely the worst job is grinding the inside of the hull, looks like you did a heroic job. Only a damn fool would do it, just plain nuts!

Somebody should invent a handy sandblaster like a wand that would spit out the media and vacuum it up at the same time. Have some different tips, but you'd wave it over hull and the paint would dissappear. With an adjustment you could remove paint from ply with it. You'd still wear a mask but the air wouldn't be dirty, nor the rest of the surfaces in the boat. Sigh

[Mike Goodwin]

If you want to just remove paint , use corn meal as the blast media , for decades we have used that in restoration of motorcycles and cars . It is hard enough to take off paint and leave a beautiful surface .

[Tony G]

Ebb,

The decks were gray which I thought would get too warm. Also, they were coated, rather haphazzardly I might add, with a rubberized paint. Add to that the fact that we had to do some cosmetic work on those ugliest of side deck scuppers and it just, plain and simple, had to come off. A long arduous job I hope no one else has to do again. But on the lighter side, it was then I discovered that one of the POs had allready done a recore job on 113. Wow! I'm off the hook!

So..well, you know how it goes. I have to fill in the scupper cut-outs and make some new ones farther back on the side decks where the water actually pools. And then I thought about frameless ports in the main cabin, dorade vents, a sea hood, an instrument dashboard, new sliding hatch, dropboards, winch pads, a new toe-rail, a new rub-rail, an anchor locker, thru-hulls and seacocks, MSD and holding tank, water tank, alot to do with the spars, oh yeah-we gotta modify the outboard well for a four stroke, etc.. That says nothing to the fact of all the canvas work and all of the interior work yet to be done.

Now, none of this should be a problem because I've finally secured a slip next year. So I guess we have an official deadline to meet. Whew! I was begining to think this job would never end. To think it all started with a 'sail away' boat with a little rot in the bottom of a bulkhead.

Sir, I need a machine that goes around vacuuming up behind me constantly! No matter what I'm doing I'm making more dust and dirt. It seems I can't even sit on my boat a drink a beer without making a slight mess. :eek:

I'm bewildered and tired, but grinning. :cool:

[Mike Goodwin]

A 6hp 4 stroke fits fine as is and is all the power you need and only weighs 55lbs , a 9.9 is 115 or more . The sump on the 8's & 9.9's gets in the way .
Just got my Nissan 6 back from servicing

[Tony G]

Mike,

Maybe I'm just whimping out with my advancing age, but, I'd like both electric start and an alternator on the outboard. Lighter weight sure would be nice. If there was a company out there that sold good, cheap, quality made (pick any two) after market pieces that one could slap on a 6HP we'd be all over that.

[ebb]

Mike,
Like 'true grit' as a vegetarian option for sand as the media! Might there be a chance for whirled peas too? Coarse salt? Walnut shells?

It'll be a two bag unit, one for the maize, the other for the vacuumed stuff. The Hog Feed Dustless Paint Removal System. It's gonna wait tho, I'm NEVER going to grind another hull again, inside or out!!! EVER. No, I mean NEVER!


Interesting the difference in weight 2 horses make. Tony, you point out the 8 and 10 have electric tilt. And an alternater. As I recall the literature on my 8/4, it is a high thrust set up with the exhaust directed out the prop for forward and reverse. When I 'researched' the net it was clear that 8s, 10s and 15s are up and down every river and estuary, bay and harbor in the world pushing fish boats and barges, on the back end of anything that floats - probably without scheduled maintenance and fresh water flush. How can anybody afford $3000 for an 8? They cost that Here, now!

Forward into the breech :eek:

[Mike Goodwin]

My 6hp 4 stroke has a charging system , no electric start , I do have a vertical pull hand start and it starts on the 1st or 2nd pull every time with ease . In the slip next to me my friend Mark has a 9.9 Johnson electric start and I can get started faster than him every time . I also can remove and install the motor underway much safer and faster than he . I'm rapidly approaching 60 too!

Ebb, walnut shells are much harder than cornmeal , and don't taste as good in a hush puppy .

[Tony G]

This was a messy job. Once the epoxy fully cures we'll back fill all around the ports by pumping in thickened epoxy three to four inches fore and aft and two inches up top. The strip between the ports will be beefed-up too. Then, out come the jigs...

[ebb]

Ports du look gud, dude!

Are you using the old frames? I MAY yet convince myself that putting on 'west coast' windows is the way it ought be. Easier and stronger, easier and quicker to replace. Lexan needs replacing. Aesthetics is a stronger consideration for using the frames. Tho the studded look has a kind of harley modern look. :cool:

[Tony G]

All four of the inside frames were either cracked or crumbling. As we live in the middle of the country I don't have access to all of those chandlery and parts stores you 'coasters' do. I'm going to try something along the lines of the Morris Yachts daysailor. If it all turns to $#!^ I can always backtrack to the bolted on ports, even though its not my favorite. I suppose we could drop three grand and buy some shiney, big opening ports. Yeah, right...

[ebb]

Only Morris Yacht's Daysailer found is a 36' Sparkman and Stephens designed Scotch and Teak throwback what has windows that look like they are 'lined' perhaps within the thickness of the cabin sides, but have no discernable frames outside per se in what I found. It difinitely is a IGOTMONEY yacht, way cool, way expensive, with sitting room only below.

How you gonna proceed Capt? I did notice that the holes you have in the sides of the cabin are VERY nicely trimmed and clean. I couldn't clean up 338's because the frames ride on only about 1/4". And the guy who cut them out in 1964 musta had a liquid lunch. What's up?

[Tony G]

First off, don't be fooled by these pics. Those port are four different shapes and sizes. You'd think they would have had a jig of some sort at Pearson. Hell, at least a pattern to trace!

We've concocted a little jig for the job. In theory, it should provide the female form for the epoxy blend that will become our port, provide the pattern for the lexan for the lite, and act as the placement jig for the holes to be drilled and tapped for the stainless bolts and, yes, be a cutting and drilling jig for the inside frames. And as an added bonus, it's made mostly from discarded material.

Ater the some grinding and sanding and surface prep the jig will be clamped to the cabin side through the six holes. Then fill the gap between the existing ports and the jig with the extra special epoxy blend. Then wait. Once she has an intial cure we can 'pop' off the jigs and take a look. Then the jigs go back on and we drill all of the holes. Once the hole are drilled then off comes the jig and in goes the tap. When the hole are tapped we'll drill a countersink for the bolt heads. Once the bolts are screwed in...well, it's all down hill from there :cool: A little fillin' and fairin' and we're ready for primer.

Here's a picture of the jig...

[Tony G]

Well, that's one of them. We made matching fore and aft or port and starboard, whatever.

Here's a shot that shows the angle of the male mold for drainage. It's a fifteen degree cut. So, if you minus the five to seven degrees of the cabin top you still have around ten degrees to shed water. I hope that's enough.

[Tony G]

Here's the beginings of the male mold for the new scuppers...come on, work with me ;)

[ebb]

Do I understand yer going to mold a frame in place !!! Holy Minnihaha! Brave Soul. Naw I think yer gonna do it flat ie horizontal. right?

I've run into some kevlar paste - is that the secret ingredient? Probably better than carbon in this ap. There's a bunch of metal-filled epoxies around - can't wait til ya spill the beans. NO! Yer NOT using hog feed in the mix, are you???

[Tony G]

In situ, baby!!!

I'm sure I'll end up throwin some swear words in the mix too. Somewhere I've got a link to a site that shows how to make a vacuum pump from a refrigerator compressor. That's the next stage here.

After this Ariel is done we've got this beat-up Ensign that is going to be, well, redone. This won't be your classic daysailor. Nowadays, I think the kids say, "pimp my ride, beeotch!" :p

Anyways, here's what we're aiming for in the scupper.

[Tony G]

The quart of PVA (releasing agent) finally showed up. I guess I'd better get started on the ports soon enough or we'll run out of summer. I've been going through the 'plan' over and over and I won't really know what happens until I'm in it up to my arm pits.

But first I had to fill a couple of other holes and tackle the chainplate areas.

[Tony G]

...here's one cleaned out...

[Tony G]

With the chainplate wrapped in plastic and ready for some epoxy...

[Tony G]

Yeah, I admit it. Sometimes I go a little overboard on this boat stuff. Like the other day I got a great deal on this 350# danforth.

[ebb]

Tonio,
For a release agent on top of wax you might try AquaNet Superhold from yer local drug store. Whatzat you say, Mike?

WARNING
Tony, if you do decide to use hair spray, do NOT use Aquanet.
I was preparing a couple female molds (new hatch slide rails) and the Aquanet did not dry. So I went to find an expert. I found a pert youg lady at Longs who agreed the A. stayed sticky on her hair too. She suggested I try L'Oreal Studioline Fast Forwrd Quick Dry Strong Hold. Yup.

What it did was mist on the work very easily as it mists in a very fine cloud - rather than spray. No droplets. Seemed to be a real plus getting an even coat even down inside. It covered the sticky stuff and dried. 3 coats. I just popped the pieces out of the molds. Worked like a charm. Side benifit was the garage had this nice feminine scent to it. Kind of made you stand up a little straighter and suck in your stomach.

My new rails look real sexy! :cool:
How those frames coming?

[Tony G]

Ebb,

Thanks for the heads up on the hair spray. The PVA worked less than beautiful :D . When we fire up the vaccuum table we'll try the L'Oreal.

The port frames are molded in! Because there'll be some grinding to do on them and other parts of the boat, I'm doing a bunch of different little jobs that will result in grinding so I's can do all of the grinding at one time. Ick...

Just finished prepping the forward hatch. You know, I can glue wood all day long, but when it comes to cutting it I get nervous and worry that I'm going to ruin it. I need boat therapy soon........

[ebb]

Excellent work on the hatch! Rounded corners, whoa, now ya talking! :cool: Nice hatch too. The cast aluminum Bomar's 338 ended up with weigh a ton.


As to "popping" finished pieces out of a female mold OR off a male mold, here, for what its worth, is a couple observations.

I use a blue colored specific mold wax. The color helps in spreading it evenly around, which I do with my hands. Put it on, let it dry briefly, buff it up. Do it again. I do three times, then it gets old. I think next time I'm gonna wax and buff at least six times to be certain of complete release.

Made sure the molds were designed to release the completed lam. But getting the pieces started was difficult, Any corners holds the piece real tight, so, have to get one side started for the mold to let go. Everything may seem loose but will stay stuck! On my male mold (the hutch) I did not wax enough and/or hair spray enough (I had made the mistake of using AquaNet, also) and ended up deconstructing the goddam mold from the inside. Bad. Real bad.

I'm using epoxy for this polyester type work. {Believe it's argueable that polyester shrinks a little because of solvents thereby aiding in removal - while 100% solids epoxy doesn't] Gel coat is probably the real secret for successful female molding. My epoxy gel coat is slightly thickened laminating epoxy with universal white color added. I could not get it thick enough because I wanted to do the whole piece at once. Thick first coat just got squeezed out where ever I pushed and poked the xmatt into the mold. Maybe there's a way to get three color coat layers on by getting them to go off but not go hard while the cloth is going in. That would be too organized! But I'm a coward, and therefor the pieces will have to be finished when in place on the boat. :o

[mbd]

Wow. Really slick hatches Tony! Very very nice! And a nice shop too...

So is the plan to add ambience down below with those aquariums? :D

[epiphany]

/me see's those hatches.

/me drools.

:D :rolleyes: :D

[commanderpete]

Oh baby, Oh baby......That's nice

Another good thing about our boats--you can stick your head out the hatch and see where you're going while taking a whiz

[mbd]

Better be a good aim and/or smooth water! Ya miss, it's yer bed...

[Tony G]

Well, this stinks. The top of the instrument 'dash' is 10'-1 1/2" off of the shop floor on the trailer. The distance from the threshold(?) the the top of the door opening is 9'-6". I thought if it was close I'd just let the air out of the tires, or, take the tires and rims off of one axel and let the other one squat down.

We don't have time to fart around with half-baked, hair-brained ideas. So...it looks like we'll have to redesign the seahood to make it removable. That's just one more bead of sealant to maintain that I was hoping to not have to deal with. :(

Actually, this has been a thought that has been burning in the back of my mind for some time now. I just didn't want to face the fact. So we'll press on.

Here's the frame for the new main hatch! It has three coats of varnish on it now so I feel I can start working with it and not be so careful. Of course it will get about another six or seven coat before being deemed 'done'.

It will have a white plexi panel on top to let in some light without beaming in the rays and corresponding heat. I was going to put a smoked panel in to match the the forward hatch, but, a 95 degree day like todeay made me think NOT!!!

It doesn't show up in the pictures but it actually has a gently curved top so water shouldn't pool on it.

[Tony G]

Another good thing about our boats--you can stick your head out the hatch and see where you're going while taking a whiz
I never looked at it that way.....maybe we'll mount hatch so it opens to the aft!

Thanks to all for the kind words and honest criticism. Sorry I haven't responded to many of the posts. I've been a little busy lately, and, the support of this group keeps me going. Well, that and more coffee than food!

[ebb]

SO ooo OOO Fine! Like that handle there. Nice frame, first class. How you going to lock it?


Mean to tell me you can't you can't sawzall the top of the garage door opening - make like a hinged one foot tall however wide piece that'll swings up out of the way when needed??? Hey! the boat comes FIRST!!! Self, wife, kids, family, dogs, taxes, religion, govmint: AFTER the boat. You got that?

[Tony G]

Hot and humid weather makes me think about water. I just can't drink enough of it. We bought this baby from a guy in MI. It came out of a Cape Dory 28.

Placement and support is proving to be more difficult than I thought :eek:

[Tony G]

I realize that this is a pretty insignificant step compared to all of the work you others have done and are doing out there. But we're actually putting something on the boat instead of taking things off.

Sole( or maybe they're called sub-sole )boards are going down and I wanted to get the forward areas of the bilge painted out first.

[Tony G]

...here's the bottom sides getting sealed with epoxy...

[Tony G]

...and here's how they fit together...

[ebb]

Go for it, Tony, nice work.
Be interested to see what that upper step becomes. Guess you're partially closing off the V-berth 'aisle' for stowage?

What is it they say?
"A remodel of a thousand angles begins with a single piece of ply."

Gorgeous prep on the hull!!!

[epiphany]

Tony -

Do you take photo requests? :D I'd like to see what shape you settled on for the opening through the bulkhead... I really liked the rounded-corners one that you had prototyped in cardboard back many pages ago.

Also, I'm thinking that I am going to sell my window frames, and go with Lexan bolted on from the outside. Probably too late for you to be interested in them, but I thought I'd mention it in case your molding hasn't progressed too far, or if you run into troubles with it (which I hope you don't! I considered doing something similar a while back...).

She's looking reeeaaalll nice. :D

[Tony G]

I'll take a picture of anything!!! We're currently leaning towards the same shape on the top of the passageway and a flat foothold on the bottom. After stumbling through there so many times working in the v-berth I think a moving target may be even harder for me. Man, old age s****s!

As of tonight we're ready to laminate the 'furniture' pieces that are going beck into the v-berth area. Then I'll have a suitable platform to work from for the 'toe-rail' job. yeeeh...

[Tony G]

Everybody seems to be dealing with the heat, so I'll spare you the whinning. but 90+ degrees and 70%+ humidity make hand sanding and shaping a little more messy. I've just finished off my first seven gallons of epoxy and I think I've sanded away at least four gallons worth :D

found some time the other morning to cut holes for the dorade vents. The cabin top here was a full 3/4" thick. Cool.

[Tony G]

Because of the lack of room and, more importantly, the fact that I only had a 52" stick of teak left, we made a modified dorade box. It will still drain through weap holes but the air will have to go around a baffle. Such is life. I'll deal with it...

What really stinks is my boring bit/countersink and plug cutter are two different sizes. I had enough scrap to cut ten plugs. Plan D

[ebb]

You know Tony, you may have something there! Never seen this design be for - and why won't it work? Unique!

Everyday dorade boxes have one or two baffles across the box to help separate water from the air coming in the cowl. I can't see why Tony's horizontal/slant innovation won't work just as well - if not better!

One of the 'improvements' I've noted in my collection of Other People ideas is the install of two access plates on top of the box. The idea being that in good weather you could move the cowl right over the hole to get direct air flow below.

Another was to put on a lexan top instead of teak to get light thru the opening. Which is to say that maybe your slanted baffle plate could be lexan, or even the top as well? (The second plate over the forward opening might also get more air below with the cowl there!)

Anyway, just my way of expressing enthusiasm for your invention! Way cool!!!

Don't ferget the limbers in the corners!!! :D

[Tony G]

It's already August 12th. :eek: That puts me about...uh...mmm....4 or 5 weeks behind schedule. Just spent two week NOT working on the boat tending to other business. I was intending these last two week to be used for letting the paint fully cure. Ha!

I was finally able to get back at this weekend. The v-berth fixins are tabbed in. Biaxial (4"), matting, roving, matting, cloth. That should be pretty similar to the schedule that what was in there to begin with. Anyone find anything different than that?

The port openings have been drilled, threaded, redrilled, and the stainless bolts installed. The bolt holes got some epoxy pushed in, and now have two coats of fairing compound. Several more to go for sure!

Made a White Oak beam that will get glassed into the lazarette (just for you, Whaleshark!) to become the backing plate for the backstay chainplate. If I can get a picture of what's in there now I'll post it. You wouldn't believe it!

It's time to start looking at the hull too. I guess it's a bad time to be opening another store on top of all this. I mean, priorities being as they are, come on, the boat come first. :D

[Tony G]

eh...I just couldn't help myself. Sometimes, I dunno what comes over me :eek:

[Tony G]

Actually, I had to get at this thing. It has been bothering me for five years now. After we first got 113 home I noticed we had some leaky deck fittings. That's ok, I thought, we can fix that. Besides, the water always found it's way to the bilge where it should end up. But one time I didn't get back on board for a day or two to 'sop' up the bilge. When I pulled board up the water was gone! A little while later I noticed water pooling by the rudder shoe.

After opening things up this morning I was able to confirm my suspicions. A little grindin', a little fillin', a little glassin'. Top that off with some paint to spiffy things up a bit. Viola! We got ourself a new wine locker :cool:

[Tony G]

The sole seemed solid as a rock. However, one can see that many a gallon has poured over these soles.

Everything that goes back in will be sealed in two coats of epoxy and painted with bilge kote. Yes, I do intend to have this boat for the rest of my life.

[Tony G]

After we got the stringers for the ceiling strips shaped and tabbed in we slapped on a few coats of paint.

[mbd]

Tony, you boat will be one fine vessel when you're all done! Hey, how are thos scuppers coming out?

[ebb]

Tony, One of the better looking bilges we've seen!

Are you going to insulate the hull? That and ceiling is another sixmo!! I found a deal on 1/2" Ensolite (turned out it was actually 5/8" - probably why the deal). I like your idea of sealing the hull. Have convinced self it's important, but only non-solvent stuff I found was that white tank coating from epoxyproducts.com. It's hard, not like a paint and takes 3 coats to get all white. I'm sick of epoxy by now, damn!

Did seal the bilge with it.

Get any further with the windows? Like to see....!

[Tony G]

Mike, the scuppers are in a holding pattern for right now. My epoxy/cockpit table is still on the boat. I also have to find another vacuum pump. My old gast has a torn diaphram :eek: and the screw heads are so corroded from salt water there is NO way to back them out anymore. After I finish the bilge I'll scoot up under the cockpit to do some work there and then, hopefully, will get the scuppers in place.

Ebb, The ports are faired on the outside. Two, maybe three more coats of fairing compound to complete the openings and inside. The bolts are all in place and the lexan is waiting to be cut and drilled. I'm tellin' you, man, the idea came from your anchor chain well. It's cool. I like the clean look. yesterday I made a profile sanding block for finish work. I'll snap a few pics for you guys.

[Tony G]

I had to see for myself...That keel void thing...well, everybodys got one!

It started out with a little inocent dremel work along some cracks in the bilge. Some were deeper than others, and, there was a spot that just sounded hollow and weak. What the heck, I thought. I knew I'l have to do some 'poxy work in there anyway. Out came the 1/2" bit. It took little pressure and about half a second to pop through the little glass that remained.

I probed around a bit. Swore. Probed a bit more. Swore alot more. The only good thing is five years on the hard meant she was pretty dry in there. I hooked the shop vac up to it with the hose on the output and let her run/heat/dry for a couple of hours just for good measure.

After much more digging I decided to fill it back up with foam-it and seal it on the top side. We'll have to inspect the heel area well later on. Definitely before we dunk.

[Tony G]

What's in there you ask?

[Tony G]

Here's what it looked like before the foam really went wild. By the days end we had sanded it down and applied the first coat of thickened epoxy. Once there is enough epoxy down there we'll put in some matt, fabric, roving, and a light weight fabric on top to help smooth things out. If you've ever poked or sliced your finger cleaning a bilge, you know why I'm being anal. :D

[ebb]

G A W W W D ! ! !
I thought about taking a look and then forgot! Loosing it.

In pic #162, what did you make of the 'cake' stuff between layers in the hole? Do I understand you foamed the void? To me it shows that the ballast has settled in the years since it was put in there with shop floor shims.

For anybody rennovating...
It obviously important to find out the condition of the ballast. In my considered opinion any void should be filled solid with something that will keep the space clear of water that seeps through the hull laminate and down through the bilge. And through the sump, if the boat has one like 338, at the end of the ballast.

It's possible, but nobody has reported it, that the ballast could work, move, as the boat is sailed. Even tho the area is supposedly sealed, my feeling was that if the boat went aground and holed herself down there at least it would be mostly solid stuff exposed in 338's case. :eek:

[Tony G]

Ebb, The area we're dealing with here is behind the lead ballast. Those holes I drilled are in the aft section of the bilge where it begins to rise from the deepest part.

The stuff in post# 162 is the original foam. It was dry and stuck to the glass pretty good. Initially, I dug rather agressively with my big, busted screwdriver thinking I would be replacing alot more foam filler. Not much of it came loose though. The top hole didn't even commincate with the bottom three. The bottom three shared a space just below the surface of the fiberglass. The biggest hole had a 1/2" crevice that lead downward about 8". After fishing around with some stiff wire I decided it really wasn't as bad as I thought, and, I had better start thinking about repairing the void instead of making it worse.

Yeah, I may have water migrating into the void again, but it won't come from the bilge. One of these fine vessels has a drainplug installed and I'm begining to think that may be the way to handle seepage. Maybe even two plugs so you could force air through to facilitate drying....would the owner of said boat lead me to the link?

[Bill]

One of these fine vessels has a drainplug installed and I'm begining to think that may be the way to handle seepage. Maybe even two plugs so you could force air through to facilitate drying....would the owner of said boat lead me to the link?

It's described in the manual.

[ebb]

Hey Tony, I got the proportions wrong, what we were looking at. So you are putting foam back in.

Strange, in all the years I've been mucking about they have not come up with another type of expanding foam than polyurethane. Watch that stuff, the fumes are genuinely lethal, pour and get out of the boat immediately, enjoy your posts, fruits of labor! I've recently used some one part out of an aersol can. Not the same as two part. Befor it settles down it seems to shrink.

It isn't much further down to the bottom at the end of the encapsulated lead, like you say, maybe 8". Since I tanked 338 under the sole and brought fittings out the bottom of the tank aft, which is the top of the ballast, I found the extra depth convenient for turning T's and so forth. It's tight down in there. Also there's just enough room for a small bilge pump and maybe the hose end from the manual. Not much volume tho.

So I'll leave some of the very narrow V going back to the rudder unfilled to gain a couple gallons. The narrow V is suspiciously sloped up at the end of the hull and probably stuffed with unraveled roving and unreinforced plastic. 338 came without Everett's folly tho. Lucky, I guess. Otherwise, without the volume under the sole, tanked, it won't take but a few gallons to put bilge water on the cabin sole!

You know they don't guarantee expanded foam against water intrusion. They say closed cell but water gets in anyway. I asked the guys at TAP, complaining as I do at the quality of products consumer, one suggested mixing styrofoam pellets and epoxy for a filler. I mentioned epoxy exotherm might be excessive, so you'd have to do small batches. It's an untried idea. Maybe cheaper than buying the 2 qt foam kit for such a small space. :rolleyes:

[Tony G]

Another day and a little more progress...

Out with the old!

[Tony G]

Yee! 'Pretty sure the EPA won't let me toss those in the dumpster.

We changed the sole under the galley a bit. It'll ride lower and be a little skinnier.

...in with the new.

[Tony G]

Had enough time to squeeze out a set of these today too.

[Tony G]

Thanks to Karen and Jerry ( and Mark A. too) for timely article in Good Old Boat magazine. It is a bit more 'complex' than I had originally planned but I like it much more.

[Tony G]

Ebb, this post is for you. Not a whole lot to look at yet.

The s.s. bolts stick out about 5/8". The outside it ready for a little more fairing compound.

I took CPete's lead and bought some barrel nuts. Each port will get 6 of them to hold the trim piece on inside. The rest of the bolts get washers and nuts to hole the lite in place.

I'm leaning toward butyl as a sealant and then run a bead of whilte 101 around the opening to hide the black. I dunno...that's a ways away yet. things can change here in a day!

[ebb]

Whal arl be hornswaggled!
Believe I got the concept, didn't imagine the outer unframes so smooth. No doubt 'see' it better with the shiney finish coat creating some shape and shadow. And you'll paint the cabin color right up to the lite, right?

Can't see why it won't work - it's truely hydrodynamic - great idea! If I hadn't restored my frames I might steal it for 338. It's real stealth! Got a shot of the molds? You must have said already but what reinforcement if any did you use in the pieces?

Might finish your system with butyl for the mere ease of maintenance (replacement). Don't know what curves you got but they must be like 338's. I'd guesstimate that the lites theirselves have about a 1/4" curve. Curved lex will fit in there like hand in glove.

(Noticed with most sheet material and my piece of 4X8 3/8" lexan that sheets have a natural side they want to curve to. You know, balance the sheet on edge, sight down its length, and lo! there's a side that wants to bend more than the other, imco. Anyway it's that curve that the plastic wants most to spend its life in. Even after a piece is cut small like the window lite and it looks flat, it'll want to take a curve one way best. This curve adds a lot of strength to a flat panel. And I'd guess the natural curve has little stress. You can persuade lexan into more of a curve with hot water, or even weight in the middle of a span for a period of time. My method for 338's. Don't think 1/2" lexan can be 'naturally' bent. Aside from smoke grey lites. 338 will have a lexan main hatch slide and probably drop boards too. All the curves, real & imagined, will be facing out! :eek: )

Your window invention is great! Maybe the arguement is that if the butyl doesn't work for some reason you can easily upgrade to something nastier! But the combers will slide right on bye! And those bolts, what are they? 1/4" - and how many? well, Nuttin' is gonna stir them babies. :cool:

[Tony G]

Ebb,
The basic mold/form for the ports is pictured in post #124 on this very same thread. In that photo the holes have not been drilled yet. The bolt spacing/placement was determined and holes were drilled on the mold to act as drill guides so every port should be the same (mechanically, and in theory, of course).

The mix was a relatively loose mix of epoxy and cabosil with milled glass fibers(hate the stuff) and hand chopped roving fibers 1 1/2" to 2" long. What a MESS! The molds were clamped onto the previously shimmed and spot filled port openings. Then the 'mix' was added, poked, twisted, pulled into place. It really moved as one glob from the pot to the mold, and more than once I thought this is never going to work. I was almost scared to knock the molds off when it was cured. Thought for sure I'd be grinding the whole mess down and going with plan D or E. But I'm stubborn and did the job in managable stages.

The bolts are 1/4". I drew the original concept with smaller ( I forget the # size) but when I was standing in the aisle at the store I kept thinking these are way too small-I'll bend them trying to sand the filler.

There is a little bow in the openings. That's why I'm leaning toward a butyl seal. The stuff can fill iregularities with ease and it's not so bad to work with.

Sure wish I could get that high-build primer that you've been using. The local SW can't/won't get it.

[dasein668]

I'm leaning toward butyl as a sealant and then run a bead of whilte 101 around the opening to hide the black.

You should be able to find white butyl. I got some at Ace Hardware for something like 2.50 a tube. I used 4 tubes, I think, on Dasein's 4 deadlights, 6 ports, and a couple of odd plastic fittings.

[Tony G]

Nathan,

Thanks for the heads up at Ace. I love my neighborhood Ace store. While they may not be a true chandlery, it is the only place around here to find 5200 or a decent assortment of stainless fasteners.

Mike,

Well, the vacuum pump was a complete wash...We applied the K.I.S.S. principle and it worked just fine. It was like sand casting, sort of, and upside down.

I taped the mold with packing tape, being the PVA turned out to be a PIA, then stapled the matt in place to keep it from sliding out of place. The matt was heavily wetted and a layer of FG fabric was worked down over the top. Cover the mess with lightweight plastic wrap and pack it six inches of sand.

After about four hours I dug it out and put some filler on the back and added some styro pieces for build up and waited another hour or two. When it got to a real tacky state, I wetted out some more matt and covered the back again. By night fall it was ready to come off the mold.

Here's what the cat coughed up...

[Tony G]

Here's the top side. You can see the lines from the tape. Of course it still needs sanding and some filleting and fairing on the 'pretty' side. The bottom will get some more reinforcing.

[Tony G]

After nearly a week away from working on the boat I'm starting to fear I may not finish her in time for launch next spring :(

Here's a mod job by one of the previous owners. While moving the backstay chainplate to the outside of the transom was a great move the knee adaptation left a little to be desired.

If you can see it on this archival photo, the modification consisted of sistering two pieces of 3/4" oak to the original knee, wrapping it with a piece of fiberglass( pasted right over the paint), then drilling four holes betweenthe sister and the original knee but only using the bottom three holes for attachment.

[Tony G]

That just wouldn't do...

I dug around and found a 1 1/2" X 2 1/4" piece of white oak that should work just fine. It was coated with epoxy and fitted, along with some styro fillets, into the lazarette. I also added some transverse stringers back here for strength.

[Tony G]

And while we were in the neighborhood I thought we'd remove the old mainsheet block pads. This way, when we get to installing the traveller we won't have to do any custom scribbing and cutting. I mean-come on-who's got time for that! :D

[mbd]

Tony, she'll be a one of a kind when you'r done with her! And by the way, those are some fine looking scuppers, I must say!

[commanderpete]

Now you're cooking.

I think she's ready for sea

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/dorset/4203594.stm

[ebb]

Thanks Cpete, for that!
The Brits still seem to suffer fools and eccentrics more gladly than anybody. Over here the guy would have ended up in the slammer and sent the bill for the chopper rescue. Except the USCG would not have considered it a life threatening situation and left him adrift. One thing to think about though is that hole in the landscape they call Lulworth that the guy, I guess, hailed from, he shudda left there long ago! :eek:

[Tony G]

I couldn't wait a day longer. We're running out of good weather here for epoxy and painting weather is all but gone. So I had to tackle that pesky deck/hull seam once and for all.

I seem to remember what a PIA it was to grind it out and now I know for sure it is a PIA to glass! I looked back to C Pete's thread when he did it and every other post regarding the topic. I decided to just go with 4" biaxial covered with 7oz. 6" tape and skip my initial plans to completely fill the cavity below the molded toe rail.

Here's what it looked like minutes before I started. Everything in waxed paper and layed out in order. cooler close at hand filled with cold packs to keep the epoxy from going off too soon.

[Tony G]

Three years and one afternoon later...

[Tony G]

Good. Now that nasty job is done I don't need these setees hangin' around anymore. ;)

[Tony G]

I don't think I posted anything on the sea hood in a while.

Here's a 'dry run' with the new hatch to check for clearance. The dash board needs a little sealant to hide the outer seam and the display heads will add a touch of realism also.

Maybe I should have taped the covers up there for the picture?

[ebb]

Tony.
Like that pull on the slider!

Hull/deck seam
A L L
at one time??
Holy Mackerel :eek:

[Tony G]

Had a tough day working. Every hour or so I had to run outside to see what was flying overhead. The local air museum is having a WWII exhibit. B-17, P-51, Corsair (love that plane) and I think the Zero even took to the skies. Wow!

Way back when I joked about shag carpet and curves. Well, the shag might not happen. I thought I'd try to make our own plywood today. What the heck, if you're going to make plywood you might as well make radiused plywood, huh?

We knew we'd need a 24" chunk and at least a 33-36" piece too. So I thought I'd make a jig that would pull a double duty. It forms a 2 1/4" radius (in theory, that is) by pulling 1/8" plys into the jig using pipe clamps and heavy walled 4" PVC. The 24" piece is setting up now as I type. Maybe tomorrow we can slow down enough to get an action shot.

24" mode...

[Tony G]

Holey cats my shop is getting filthy. I need a day just for cleaning!!!

Here's a shot of 'Le jigue' in 36" modus. I hope to try this setting out tomorrow.

[commanderpete]

Doing some excellent quality work there Tony.

What's the plan with them jigs?


This is supposed to be the last B-29 still flying

I ain't much of a cameraman

[Tony G]

..aint much of a cameraman!?! Why Pete, I've been very fond of a number of the photos you've posted ;) deck hardware and nav aids to name a couple.

We're pretty lucky to have the Fargo Air Museum close by. It's not a big facility by any means but the owner/curator has a heck of a collection. Including a super corsair, one of eight remaining and the only one flying in the world.

Anyway, this is a sailboat site...

We're going to use the curved sections in the galley. The shorter piece will form the inboard corner of the ice box. That's right, I said ice box. Well, ice box/navstation/com. center. The longer of the two will form the inboard corner of the galley proper. Those two rounded corners should save alot of shin skin.

After seeing the radius I with I could find some teak veneer fast. I'd really shoot the wad on the main cabin. But as it is, it'll probably be painted white to open things up a bit. Maybe we'll put raised panels in the 'salon' to add a touch civility.

[mbd]

Cool beans Tony - I cannot wait to see your finished boat! But I gotta say, after seeing that sign on your workshop wall, I'm sure glad nobody has any shots of you working! :D

[Mike Goodwin]

Icebox! in northern Minn., isn't that redundant ?

Looks great !

[commanderpete]

Tell me something......

How come you Ariel guys don't like the icebox?

Being able to reach a cold beverage while you're sitting in the cockpit.

Genius

[mbd]

This one likes it just fine! Nice idea.

[ebb]

Can you give us a shot of your vacuum bag system?

[Tony G]

Thanks guys.

The sign was a b-day present from my friend that is a 'big-time' high end, anal retentive, finish carpenter. He likes to make fun of me because I always(used to) refer to Norm Abram's New Yankee Workshop. This guy has a wood shop I'd gladly live in. Counter space gallor, every tool you'd need, doubles of most of 'em, TV and stereo mounted in a dust-free cabinet, blah, blah, blah...But he still has to go outside to pee. So I chuckle at him, with my little hole in the dirt shop, because I'm one up on him. I've got running water-every time we get a good rain :D

Frighteningly redundant! Current weather: Highs in the sixties, lows approaching thirties. Epoxy: Stiff!

Pete,

The easy access cockpit available ice box is no more on 113. Sorry, but I'd just end up falling overboard.

[Tony G]

As promised, an action shot!

[Tony G]

I think this is just about the entire arsenal minus a few big clamps.

[Tony G]

Things are starting to slow down here as far as 'boat work' goes. Of course, everything else is picking up.

I had a couple hours on Sunday to lay out some lines and cut a little wood. Things are starting to take shape.

[ebb]

It's gonna be NICE!

[Tony G]

This is no stretch of the truth. Friday of last week it was 82 degrees here. This morning, snow and a high in the upper thirties. Boatwork season outside is pretty much over for me this year. Oh sure, we can still cut and shape a few things, but epoxy and glue work is done. Just last night I had to use a heat lamp over the radius jig to help the glue set.

Bummer.....

[mbd]

Sounds like you need heat in that well-used workshop of yours!

No snow yet here, but the boat is scheduled to be hauled on the 17th. :(

Tony, I had an idea looking at your picture - how about an aft berth tucked up underneath your cockpit? Look at all that room in there! Then you could use some of the v-berth space for an enclosed head. ;)

PS. BTW, this can't be said enough: VERY slick work!

[frank durant]

Tony...obviously a 'labour of love'...lookin REAL GOOD !!! Keep the faith..and throw another stick in the stove.

[ebb]

epoxy I use is good down to 40, no blush.
one or two of those cube catalytic heaters
pointed into the ends of the boat
with the fans going will get it
like summer inside the boat for setting the resin.
Progressive can probably set you up with
some stuff that'll set up in Anarctica.

338 is gonna have curves too,
but nothing as grand as what you have!
WOW, kudos to your designer!
you're gonna beat me back to the water, RIGHT? :eek:

[epiphany]

Tony, I had an idea looking at your picture - how about an aft berth tucked up underneath your cockpit? Look at all that room in there! Then you could use some of the v-berth space for an enclosed head. ;)


I've been thinking the same thing. I'm glad I've lived aboard for a while before doing any major work in the cabin. My design is evolving. :)

I know what I want to do in the v-berth (guest bunk on one side, cabinet/drawer stowage on the other), and the settees (somewhat). The back wall area of the cabin is what I've been pondering for the past couple weeks. What I do there will to some degree determine what the final arrangement of the settee area will be. A quarter berth tucked up under the cockpit (basically extending the current berth ~2' aft) makes a lot of sense - it puts a usually empty, but needed, area more into the stern of the boat, would provide a flat floor to the cockpit locker above, and will be a safer place to be bunked in stormy conditions, especially if, heaven forbid, repeated knockdowns or a complete capsize were to happen.

I did consider using that area right under the cockpit floor, but I think it would be too hard to keep dry, especially being right under the companionway. As I write, this thought comes to mind: if done properly this area could be made1) watertight and 2) detachable, thus being able act like a liferaft if the boat started to go down. Kind of a James Bond liferaft. Maybe whoever has Ariel #007 could do this. Know of any sources for explosive bolts? ;) :D ;)


PS. BTW, this can't be said enough: VERY slick work!

For sure! Kudos!!! :D

[Tony G]

Water tight and detachable! I gotta see a drawing! :eek:

A bunk under the c-pit was seriously considered here. But that would require some serious rebuilding for supporting the cockpit sole, don't you think. Couple with that, as Kurt pointed out, it could be a very wet area.

Quarter berths tucked on one or both sides like Ebb has done are alot easier to accomodate. If we just had another 4-6 feet we could do something on the order of this...

[epiphany]

Here's the pic of Ebb's under-cockpit quarter berth.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1104&stc=1

From Ebb's Thread (http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showpost.php?p=4861&postcount=65). (Can't get these images to show up for some reason, just the links to them...)

Dang it. I'v gotten used to sleeping on the *port* side, but this berth with Scott G's ex-icebox-lid illumination (see the Association Manual and/or Scott's page (http://www.solopublications.com/sailarip.htm#inter) ) would make things bright and cheery even on an overcast day. I've an old, huge bronze opening port that I considered mounting in the cockpit footwell sidewall for light and ventilation of the quarterberth foot area, it's something to consider perhaps with a version of Scott's mod, just on the other side. My current idea-ing is to put the icebox below where it currently is, a' la Scirroco...

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=73&stc=1

Tony, that's an awful purty quarterberth and nav station. The compass rose inlay is gorgeous, and salty looking. In fact, everything in that pic is nice...

[Tony G]

Kurt

An opening port would help out a lot for anyone slightly claustrophobic in one of those quarter berths. I'd definately make a cover for the x-icebox hatch lite. Just think of a wine hangover with the sun beating in on your eyes. YEEH!! I just made the room spin :eek:

Nothing stellar tonight. I guess I'll just keep making pieces for the puzzle next spring-unless we get some really crazy weather. for which, I'm ready to lay some glass.

[Tony G]

As things come together some things are working out fine and others...

The ice box/nav station is okay as is the galley. They are pretty much a straight forward installation. Then there was that little bureau on the forward end of the starboard setee. I didn't even plan on that one, it just sort of 'came together' the other day.

The port side setee will have a berth that tucks under the galley giving a desperately needed six and a half foot spot for yours truely. That sill leaves 8+ inches for a water filter and misc. plumbing and 'stuff' storage.

The problem I'm running into now is coming up with storage behind the setee backs and still having enough room for a double berth across the main salon. If I was only addressing sitting room it would be a piece of pie( :D ) but I need those 3 inches on each side.

I'll have to hit the books over the next few days and try to come up with something. Unless one of you guys has the right idea.

[ebb]

Tony,
Those curves ARE gorgeous, can already tell the interior will be fantastic.
Yesterday, sitting below, while taking a break from prepping the toerail, pondered the double berth quandry. I have to go for even more length, width as well.

Remember your cushions will raise the level and create width for sleeping.
Could make the seat backs part of the double bed expansion with the bedding behind on one side (338 will be starboard.) Could make one settee back without vertical partitians - still with the shelf on top - gaining more horizontal area to the hull. Could even pad the hull.



[I've almost convinced self to raise the sleeping levels to the height of the V-berth on 338's starboard side in the saloon!!! Aesthetically dangerous! But I am putting in a two seater dinette with a table that can be hinged up to get it quickly out of the way for the sleep mode. Dinette seats same height as V-berth. Raising up the platform means maximum width for lying down and more precious stowage.

The double would take all of the aisle, of course. In my case there has to be like four square at the companionway to take care of any vertical business. Would sit on the bed with feet down at foot of ladder. Will design ladder that can be pushed under bridge deck. Hopefully the commode between the V-berths is accessable. But privacy and convenience would be better served with a camp commode out in the cockpit when the cabin is double berth. imco

The thing about the quarterberth that Alberg has in the Cape Dory is that it is an enormous volume. I imagine it will be the sail locker on 338 (because I've put the platform low as possible) as the bags can be stood up into the usually unavailable space. Might still have room there to keep daily gear out of the way. The cockpit locker access seems inconvenient for getting sails in and out.]

Press on! Curves ahead! :D

[eric (deceased)]

:eek: For Sleep Accomodations I Put A Removable Drop Board Between The Existing Port And Starboard Bunks.that Allowed Me To Sleep Athwartships With My Head Up On Either Tack.the Same Thing Occurred In The Cockpit And This Arraingement Worked Out Fine.there Were Times That I Woke Up In The Middle Of Nowhere And Completely Forgot That I Had Left.

[legalair]

Any new pics of your progress? I am just starting my interior renovation and was very inspired by your work so far.

[Tony G]

Oh my Gawd!! Nearly a year gone by, already?!

I've been putting WAY too much time into this new store. Think, half the time, and, twice the work. Not twice the income :o yee...

Well, you know how this works. Excessive work must be balanced with an adequate, yet fair; no, equitable amount of boat stuff. So far I haven't deviated from the original plans so very much. But I will admit, the longer it takes me to finish this wonderful little craft the more toys she gets.

Autopilot. This has been deemed a necessity by some and opulence by others. Yes, there simple alternatives that won't breakdown, shortout, or suck up that precious electrical supply, but, after the first few weeks of working until midnight or three in the morning I figured it was earned and I might as well get one just in case!! Besides, it will tie in with the rest of the electronics we've already purchased.

Stainless steel. Well, I dunno what to say. Maybe it was the new anchor that necesitated a bow roller. The bow roller needed somewhere to sit and there is already plenty of wood to varnish. So why not get a shiney perch for the pair to hang off of? Yah, I'll take a bow pulpit to match. You really have to don't cha?

I put those dorade boxes on and it's kind of a smallish boat and they're in a rather 'busy' spot with all the lines and stuff coming off the mast base so we (purely for saftey's sake, folks) ought to have some guards over them so we don't kick one or 'pop' one off into the drink. Those babies are expensive!! :D

You have to agree with me, boarding ladders just don't look right hanging over the side midship. Where else can you hide one but to disguise it in the pushpit? Wouldn't work with the one that came with 113 so we'll just have a new one made that is split in the back a little off center to accomodate a flip-up, folding boarding ladder. That way the 'front' and the 'back' of the boat will have the same amount of shinyness.

Hard Dodger. I like them. If you can attach a sun shade and sides while at anchor you've got mui-cabin. I figure to build one properly I'd have to break down and assemble a vacuum bagging system. So to that extent we shopped around and found some vacuum guages, vacuum switches, check valve, solenoid valve, reservoir tank, venturi valve, hand book on vacuum bagging, you know, the usual boat junk. Can't wait to start!!! Outboard shaft plug, winch islands, scuppers...oh yeah, 'just about forgot...the hard dodger ;)

I had once stated that this was going to be my lake home. Since then the fact that life is indeed short has been forced upon me. Why not the Bahamas? Why not Belize? USVI and BVI? Even the Florida Keys are enjoyabe. Eric, Frank, George, Zoltan, what do you think?

Anyway, that's what's news here at the Nude Honky Workshop.

Tony G, in dire need of boat time....

[frank durant]

Wow...lots of great ideas !! Thats the fun of redoing a boat...you have 360 degrees of possibilities. You end up with a very personal end result. My thoughts are..."do what ya want..but get it done and go sailing !" The boat is MORE than capable of destinations you mention. The keys are very easy..very close and as tropical as ya can get at home...best part is from there , you are only a day sail to the Bahamas....work your way south from there and you are only a ....... ... ... ... ... !! The only thing stopping you is ...YOU. Have fun.

[epiphany]

Tony -

News? Updates? Pics? :)

[ebb]

send out a search party boys,
Tony probably froze half way to the shop.
Bring im a beer, bring im some antifreeze!
Spring is on its way!!!

[Tony G]

Still here crew. 2006 was all about the new store and things should lighten up shortly. You know me well enough to realize that I never stop thinking boats! I sneak into the office every now and again and drop-in here to see what's new.

2007 will hopfully have #113 ready for water. I'm certainly ready to get back to her, and a year's neglect should be apptly corrected by shiney, new things.

Best wishes to all of you this coming year.

[frank durant]

Glad you're OK !! Best of the new year to ya ! I am sure that given time , your ariel will turn out beautiful.....now give yourself a new years present.........TIME :D

[Tony G]

This kinda sucks:p

I've just gotta get back into boat work to save my soul. So we're starting with 'baby steps' and what better stride than a vacuum bagger? Mind you, I haven't even thrown the switch on this thing yet but it should work. I mean, it's not my brain child. All I did was copy one of Colin Cox's system found on his web site www.buildinggalene.com.

Anyway, Ebb once asked to see my vacuum bagging system and it didn't even exist at that time. So just to keep things right we assembled one. It's venturi operated, controled by a vacuum switch and a solenoid valve.

First on deck are new rails for a sea hood. Yah. The original design I toiled on for countless hours is not going to make the cut. More looking and research and Ebb has driven me to a higher standard. Redesigned side deck scuppers, winch islands and of course the hard dodger and bulworks. But here's the new idea...I call it Inspira'd la C Pete! I'm thinking self-draining, insulated, molded into the cockpit seat DRINK HOLDERS!! :cool:

[tha3rdman]

wow over kill. I haven't done that much, but I havent run into a situation where the vacuum needed to be regulated, the leaks in the bag kept is from crushing the core in my past foam projects and if the vacuum did exceed your Comfort range for the material your working with poke the bag, and most of the mechanical pumps are rated 100% duty cycle.

That all said, great system.

[commanderpete]

Keep us updated on the cupholder project.
Need to keep your priorities straight.

All I've got is a winch handle holder. This is reserved for the Captain's beer.

The crew is required to stay alert

[Tony G]

You know, Pete, I read that post three times before I noticed the one tucked in the winch handle holder. I guess I was more concerned about the beer that looks to be seriously close to peril:eek:

To make a short story long...I'm not a morning person at heart. As a matter of fact I have a real tough time getting to bed before 1:00-1:30a.m.. But in order to get any work done on my 'love' I hit the shop door by 5:00 BIG cup of java in hand.

We made a template of the cabin top and tranfered that to some plywood stringers and made a (?) form to vacuum bag a hard dodger off of. I think yu can see the lines that we're patterning the top to. The curves came from the port frames that way we have some continuity. The areas with the handles cut in will be cored with wood as will the attachment points. The rest will be cored with foam.

[Tony G]

Googled a set of instructions on building a hot wire foam cutter and I couldn't just let it go to waste! We started with a 1/2" platform of Baltic Birch that gets epoxy coated (X2). The base of the island gets 'pulled' over the ply and a styrofoam mold. Once the epoxy cures we can remove the styro and put in reinforcement and attachment points.

I don't know why I like them so much but I truely do covet winch islands:confused:

[Tony G]

I keep running across these lovely S & S designs with what I imagine are salons NOT saloons coated in raised panels. And who wouldn't love a Cherubini 44 or 48? But who can afford a shaper and expensive bits.

I knew there had to be an easy way to cheat at it. Here it is...:cool:

[ebb]

Hey Tony, Whatz the cheat?
Looks like you might be grooving for a slip in ply panel???
Nice handle!

On the winch islands:
I got non selftailers so a set up that would allow a jam cleat on the island is desirable.

But I wonder if the cleat should be AFT OR FORWARD OF THE WINCH?
Talking a non-race set up.

Be great to see an actual successful working set up. Does the cleat need to be on a plate and/or be set at an angle to be able to take the line off and on easy? Should it be a jam or a clam? The more windes on the winch the more a fair lead to the cleat is needed.

I had a hell of a time with selftailers, could never get the hang of it, the tailer part was always too short and the tailcatch too small for my big hands. I'm thinking a longer lead to the cleat would make it easier and really less dangerous to hold and let go of a main full of heavy air???

It is the lead OFF the cleat that I want to get correct. Want it to slip off and not hang up! When the wind's up and the boat's tacking.

I'm assuming the styrofoam is to act as a form for laying up fiberglass to make a hollow form? The hollow form will have a piece of mahog or teak on the top?

[Tony G]

Gads! It's the ubiquitous island orientation query...

I dunno, Ebb. I've seen the winch to cleat orientation both ways. Being you're planning on cruising, you'll probably be flying a big reacher or asymetrical much of the time. In which case you'd maybe run the sheets back to a snatch block or foot block and would be better served by having the cleat in front of the winch. My O'Day was set up that way with a jam cleat. It seemed to work just fine and we never flew a chute on that boat.

You know, I've a pair of Lewmar 42 ST not doing anything. You could use 'em to haulout:eek:

You can groove with that jig too. I made it to cut the bevel or chamfer with a lip if you will. Hike that blade up a couple of inches and lean it over a few degrees. Then just clamp the blank and run her through. Fast and safe without multiple passes to remove material. No catching or tearing out either.

[Tony G]

I don't know what the two highly crafted and shaped wood blocks are called that bridge the gap between our coamings and the cabin top are officially called, but mine are in pretty tough shape. After studying them for awhile I don't think I have the tools, guts, or know how to make good enough replacements. Besides, there will allready be plenty of wood to varnish on 113.

In the reconstruction phase I noticed alot of hairline cracks in and depressions of the headliner in the area where the above said blocks attach. I realized that I wanted to remove some of the head liner to add a backing for reattachment and provide mounting points for cabinetry or whatnot. Hopefully it will work out and I won't just make more work for myself.

So to that extent I made up a couple more blocks of styro, got out the bevel guage and got busy with the saw. (By the way, the hot wire foam cutter burned up the transformer allready. We'll try again after this weekend...) We also made up a platen to make vacuum bagging the forms easier. We'll see about that!

[ebb]

Hey Tony.
The coaming breakwater whatjermacallits:
Doing it the old way:
After you glued up the requisite block of Mahogany 8/4 pieces,
you could cut the tapers and the rabbit out with the table saw.
Or be easier to bandsaw the tapers (two cuts) then cut the rabbit out on the table saw, no vacuum bagging. Could jackplane the big round corner, no problem.

I just saw a 24 footer by TedBrewer. It seemed inspired by Alberg. Had a lazarette behind the cockpit. Had the same LOW varnished coamings that you can't lean against
and can't sit on, if the boat is on 'er ear. Or just see better forward around the cabin.

I've been threatening taller backrest coamings on Little Gull - which would mean taller breakwaters in the front off the cabin. Like maybe 16"! They would be big triangular baulks of wood. The coamings are definitely Ariel trademark (even more so: Commander) and a good simple piece of glorious varnished teak or mahogany that really dolls up the ship. A real tall coaming might NOT look so good, though. And water volume could increase dramatically.

Reason says it would be possible to raise the coamings a bit, have winch islands, have stowage compartments, even make the coaming SITTABLE... with an added cap rail. That's what I'm aiming at.


It's a quandry - I worried about it - just can't give up the satisfation of that mahogany furniture. And I don't know if I want to give up that elegant RUN of coaming by breaking the eye with glass winch islands. They could be painted wood color. Tacky.
I've tried to imagine the winch island laminated with mahogany veneer showing on the outside. Capped with a piece of 3/4, who would know?? What do you think? Can it be done?
The winch island also could be extended along the coaming to make sometime sitting always possible.

And, now I'm thinking, looking at the coaming standoff models you got there that the same thing could be done with them. Fiberglass with wood veneer. Especially with that vacuum bag process. Wonder if it could be done one shot or have to bag the veneer on separately.

Gotta see your vacuum bag process in action!:cool:
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
The alternative:
Why not do the whole stretch of the coaming, all together....? The coaming COULD be 5" or 6" across,
a narrow hollow fiberglass box,
would incorporate the winches anywhere on top without the bumpouts (islands) Could be easy to face with mahogany. Even on BOTH sides..... The standoff/return/breakwaters at the front might have to be separate pieces. But we expect that break there. Sit anywhere on them! There wouldn't be much stowage capacity unless it was heightened some. The seatback inside the cockpit could be a open mahogany grid like the galley has for bowls and cups.
Anyway, just a thought.
Try to get the small of the back supported. But try to keep the Alberg/Pearson proportions of cabin to coamings. It'd be epoxied in, wouldn't leak! The stow compartments self draining. Think of the extra cockpit stowage. But we'd lose the side decks. Would that really be so bad?

Add for a backrest some tube rail at the right height that could be padded.
And could be grabbed once in awhile if you ever lost yer balance.
Be great to have them in rough weather.
And offshore they could have sunbrella panels and be incorporated into the spray dodger.
The panels themselves might make a comfortable backrest too!:cool:

If we were more comfortable
would we'd spend more time sailing
???????????????????????????

[Tony G]

Well, this is round one with the bagger. I didn't even do a test pull for practice. No time for wastin' I had one day off so we put all chips on the table.

Worked like champ! One problem I over looked is the form leaked air in from a seam underneath. That caused the compressor to run non-stop. I didn't like doing that and I'm sure the smaller pieces will workout much better for the compressor. At this point it's all 'blah-blah-blah'...let's get on with the pictures!:D

[epiphany]

Am I reading it right:

"Tony's Nude Honky Workshop"?

L M A O !!! :D

(methinks it is probably a good thing that there are pictures only of the pieces being worked on, not of the workers!;) )

[mrgnstrn]

Well, this is round one with the bagger. I didn't even do a test pull for practice. No time for wastin' I had one day off so we put all chips on the table.

Worked like champ! One problem I over looked is the form leaked air in from a seam underneath. That caused the compressor to run non-stop. I didn't like doing that and I'm sure the smaller pieces will workout much better for the compressor. At this point it's all 'blah-blah-blah'...let's get on with the pictures!:D


Tony, two questions....

1. How are you sealing the edges of the bag to the form? It looks like one side has a piece of angle aluminum clamping down one edge. What about the other edges?

2. Did you say that you had a pair of Lewmar 42's sitting around doing nothing.....
....
What would you sell those for?
....
Lewmar 42's would make ideal secondaries on my big boat.

[ebb]

Agreed. Tony, Please let us in on the PROCESS.
Would like to see a photo series on bagging - with commentary.:D

something!


I just wallowed around in an old thread that's up on the Board currently. That's the Exterior Varnish thread willie started in 2004(?)

Anyway there are pics of his Ariel #350 with VERY shippy winch peninsulas.

I'm glad a fossil thread has been restored again. But I really miss the guys who aren't posting anymore....sniff....
BIG THANKS to those who chime in and continue to make this a wonderful spot to visit!

[Lucky Dawg]

"Anyway there are pics of his Ariel #350 with VERY shippy winch peninsulas."

Wow!!!!!!!

[Tony G]

KM

1. Being the cheap skate that I am I currently use a 3M window insulating kit for 'mastic' and 'bagging film':eek: No kidding! It was hanging out in a corner of the shop and I thought, "let's just give it a try." I suppose I will eventually have to order some professional grade 'stuff' but until this is used up, or doesn't work any more, I'll stay the course.

That aluminum channel was a last ditch effort to seal what I thought was the culprit seal letting in the air. It turned out to be somewhere else.

B. Yes I have a pair of 42 STs up in my boat supply room. I sent you a private message.

Ebb

I started taking a series of pics last night on the whole bagging process as I do it. I won't say that I'm doing it right, but when I first started looking into this process there seemed to be alot of DIY techniques. Some kind of sketchy and tight on info. So I thought we'd buy a manual from the Gougeon Brothers. It turned out to be a general info guide and a bunch of sales lit. Go figure. Then I tried contacting a few people actually doing it. Jack pot. Turns out it's not rocket science! We'll see what happens...:cool:

[Tony G]

Finally got a couple of days off and went to see the boat. What a gal...

I've had this idea in my head of what I thought was appropriate or good or right. No. After sitting for what must have been hours I resigned to the fact that the boat would tell me what should happen. Things went much smoother then.

Here's the nav desk area, galley drop-ins, area where the refer will go (Engle35),another nav area, companionway shot, cockpit storage access.

[Tony G]

Oops. Reached the five photo max. I guess if I did this more often I'd know about these 'rules'.

We added the port side nuthin' photo.

[mbd]

At last, new pics from Tony, and worth the wait! I am absolutely in love with those elegant curvacious corners. Very chic!

Thanks for the update. :D

[ebb]

Ah yes, curves, girls and boats.
And it is worth the effort. Right?

Aside from the engine room and strange stuff we have to carry for parking - we must to find room downstairs for a kitchen, a parlor, an office and bedrooms. On a Midget Ocean Racer Cruiser.

And we all have it our way, those of us who are rearranging one of the smallest cruising sailboats. We will have very different interiors when done, yet all with the purpose of comfort and beauty and sailing far.

It's a great thing to be doing and a great thing to share.

"And morc to you, sir, morc and morc!"

[c_amos]

Tony,

What a super cruising interior! The need for a good place to put the laptop is a real issue now. My used-to-be-icebox turned nav table was less then ideal. I ended up with a few makeshift ideas* that were never really suitable. I really like the working surfaces you have built in, and think you will really enjoy them.

Thanks for the update, look forward to more pictures of your awe inspiring work!











*Cruising with a medium-large dog has it's challenges. In looking for things to prop up a board to put the computer on I did at times utilize the back of my sleeping Lab.... thus creating the 'Lab-top computer'.... :D

[mbd]

I did at times utilize the back of my sleeping Lab.... thus creating the 'Lab-top computer'....
Hehe!!

Tony, are you planning to put the sink back in its original location there on top of the counter?

[Tony G]

Thanks for the compliments, captains. I'll be the first to admit I stole every idea incorporated into Dream Weaver this far and 'we aint done yet!'

Still desperately searching for the best possible work surface/table arrangment. I thought we had found it in Frank's Revival but after changing 113's galley around it won't work there. The nav table refer location is mainly an inn table for the library.:D not really a ergonomically desirable work station. I'm back to eyeing the main bulkhead again. I seem to remember someone, somewhere storing a table on the overhead in their v-berth. That may be a viable option and if anyone out there has a link to that boat site.......

The sink is going back in pretty much the same spot it came out of just a little higher and a little closer to the centerline and a little farther forward. I think we'll valve the drain though before it ties into the cockpit scupper drain and seacock assembly just for good measure. Hopefully that will still leave enough room for the gimballed kerosene cooker and some outboard storage under the side decks.

Any thoughts, comments or concerns are welcome. Oh yeah, real world advice is greatly appreciated!

[mbd]

Among the many well thought out features, the Albin Vega 27s have a very slick table setup, which includes stowage above the v-berth area. Sorry, no pics here at work, but you can probably find some on Yachtworld...

[Tony G]

Hot, humid weather finally!

Found the oportunity to sneak up to the boat again. We took all of the main cabin furniture out and epoxy sealed the backsides, edges and bottoms of it. Then back to the boat where a few final cuts and shaping had to be done. And finally some hot, sticky weather to inaugurate the epoxy in tight spots season! Ahhh. It's officially summer.

Having recently given thought to the electrical system I decided I had to commit to a wiring chase forward from the electrical panel. That included a 3/4" PVC pipe through the main cabin and just through the mainbulkhead. Then we picked up a 1/2" PVC pipe to run through the v-berth area into the chainlocker/peak to handle the wiring run for the forward navigation lights. Of course this would involve hacking my way through the ceiling battens I applied to the hull some time ago.

A good friend left me some of his tools and in that odd collection I found the perfect beast!

[Tony G]

Along with the wiring chase I made way for the plumbing to run from the head in the v-berth back to the holding tank under the cockpit much like Theis' set-up.

I used short pieces of PVC just large enough in diameter to allow the 'flexable' plumbing to run through the bulkheads and setee dividers. The flexible plumbing will be caulked where it passes through the PVC stubs so the setees will be water tight (in theory).

The edges of the holes were coated with unthickened epoxy first, then the PVC was wrapped in wetted matt and carefully 'twisted' into place. Later, after given a little sanding an epoxy fillet was added to smooth things out.

Being these funiture pieces are not really structural and I wanted to expedite the whole process and save a little epoxy, I hot-glued these little styro wedges in for 'fast fillets'. A quick pass with a 1-1/2" sanding drum chucked in a drill gives a nice smooth form to lay tabbing over.

[Tony G]

We have all this re-sawn ash to use up so I thought as long as I'm waiting I might as well add some ceiling battens to the hull on the starboard side below the cabinets. This time I decided to use some of the 1/8" baltic birth ply lying around to make some curved battens that follow the hull's form.

The curved furniture pieces got a final shaping and are glued in place. Well, on the starboard side at least.:o