Fruits Of My Labor (A-113)

[Tony G]

Aside from making removable panels it sounds like the M.O. I've been following. Every edge gets coated, then allowed to cure, lightly sanded to remove any of the grain that wants to stand up and turn into a wick followed by another coat. No sanding hard enough to shape the wood done at this point unless we're going back to step one with the coating. Then at least one more coat before we bond anything together. So in reality when it comes time to tab the pieces together we're talking three applications of resin. The flat sides get the same attention because there is so much more standing grain after that first coat of epoxy.

I had used white oak for some of the framing last go around. But I've come to accept that I have a crap-load of teak and mahogany that needs to get used. I've been squirreling it away for "something" and grabbing it when ever I can find it on sale or have the weight of a few extra coins in my pocket. Everything solid from the forward locker back is teak or mahogany now.

Jeez-if we can get at least 10 good years out of her I'll be grateful...

P.s. Hey, Ebb, if you have a part number for the drain plugs that'd be great. fowlin' a

[ebb]

There are two or three Seadog drainplug models.
I have the plain all nylon ones (520010-1) which have a short collar (3/8") that fits into a 1" drilled hole.

A plug screws into the collar with a short non-snag handle and has a thick flat red washer that seats good into the fitting and sure looks like liquid would be kept from coming out or going in.
Has a couple 'legs' that loosely captures the unscrewed plug in the fitting when open so it doesn't run off down the scupper.
Standing up it looks like a cute little one-eyed robot. Smart design, imco.
Bedding surface thoughfully incise-molded to hold caulking.
Nothing much sticks/bonds to nylon, so I use non-curing always sticky butyl tape or tube to ensure a seal.

Can use polysulfide on nylon, but imco it will eventually cease to stick when rubber finally cures. That may allow disassembly, but also water to get thru.

Defender has them for $2.95.
Somebody else has them for a better price....like around $2?
Drill 1" hole - goop the fitting - push it home - add two #10 FHscrews.
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EDIT. Just came off a search (using 'the Find' engine). One outfit (never heard of) called www.northeastmarineparts.com has them (w/ a gray washer) for $1.81 - nothing on S&H. There are other makers of this type of plug - Seadog (from the pix) still looks the best.
Being plastic the plug can be altered. The legs can be snipped off to allow complete removal of plug. Or the molded 'ring' on the legs can be cut to allow the legs to be compressed for takeout. And putting back.
A locker whose bottom is where the hull is rising at an angle may need a legless plug. (snip 'em off)
On thin ply panels a backing block may be necessary to increase thickness for the screws to get some bite and also not poke thru.
Hope they work for you!
http://www.northeastmarineparts.com/seadog-520010-nylon-drain-plug.aspx

SeaDog Black Nylon Drain Plug - 520010-1
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Teak and white oak are truly indestructable $$$$$ marine woods.
Pearson used honduras mahogany $$ for hidden cleats/painted framing and such in A-338. May seem wasteful, but milling produces a bone pile of strange pieces that can find a place in framing and blocking. No splinters, holds fastenings good, easy to drill for fastenings, forgiving, doesn't warp, smells good, hand planes easy, glues good, doesn't need epoxy soaking, rot resistant, yabbadabbadoo! Love the stuff.
Next to walnut, it's a great treat to work with the highest regarded furniture wood of all time.
Never see a rudder or cockpit coamings made with walnut. Orchard walnut is probably just as durable as honduras and spectacular grained.
Asked a yacht designer why we never see it on boats - he said, it is 'unlucky'. Never verified that.

[Tony G]

Thanks for the links, Ebb. Sometimes I keep going back to the same old haunts. Even though they've served my needs well, we are stuck with the same old choices for products and limitations.

Well here's a first. I recieved a 4 x 8 foot sheet of plywood in the mail (UPS actually) today while out to lunch...

[Commander 147]

Tony

Looks like you found bending plywood. My wife does custom window treatments and I've used it to build some things for her in her business. What are you planning on using it for? Even bending plywood will only go so small on a radius before it wants to break.

[Tony G]

We found some that wasn't outrageously expensive to purchase and ship. It is just going to be cabinet corners below. I think we can tease it into the jig with less trouble than the baltic birch. Then it will either get scarfed into the flat panels or joined in some fashion suitable. It isn't structural by any means but I'll give it the "fall against" test just the same. That's where I pretend I lost my balance and give it a nearly painful hip check once it is in place. Hey, it's going to happen sooner or later!

I grew up inder a sewing machine! Even when she worked outside the house for a number of years, my mom has been a seamstress all her life. She has her work hanging in three countries. No kidding! From a little podunk town in Northern Minnesota! Kewl stuff, you and your wife.

[Tony G]

Wood update...
Mike, at Valley Hardwood will get either marine grade fir plywood or meranti for me (and any other local nut-jobs) after the first of the year. I don't know what caused the change, but, not having to put the extra attention into the panel faces will be nice. The edges will still get two coats of epoxy though.

[Commander227]

Tony,
Have you looked into MDO plywood for your interior stuff? My understanding is that it was designed for outdoor signs and such. Waterproof glue, no voids, the big Menards carry it, pretty cheap, nice stuff.
Lund use it for the floor in their aluminum boats. We use it for all sorts of stuff.

[Tony G]

Mike,
I had no idea MDO had those kind of specs. I realized last winter what a good product it is by comparison to a lesser alternative. Several years ago we used it on the outfeed table and it has held up remarkably. In fact, I feel I am forced to scrap the MDF I used on the miter saw/router stand and replace it with MDO just because there is such a HUGE difference between the two products (what was I thinking?!?!)
But, I struck a deal for the meranti or marine fir and we will have to keep our word. I do sincerely apreciate the offering though.

Hey, Happy Holidays to all of you!

[Tony G]

We had some unseasonably warm weather here the last two days and being I had today off it was a must to at least get out to the shop for a couple of hours. Made a couple of new models to see how things fit and get a feel for them in 3D. trying out a new variation on the toerail and it's growing on me. It is another inch taller than the original "design" (to use the term loosely) giving a more pleasing look and a bit more safety.

Lately I have been trying to find a design for a new mast head. There doesn't seem to be one out there that will drop into the top of our extrusion that isn't just a cast replacement. So I'll conceed to having one welded that can be bolted in place. That will open up some options. Any way I cut it, it looks as though we will end up shortening the fore and back stays a couple of inches. I knew we would have to put a new end on the forestay to install the profurl so it's no big deal to do the backstay too. Then I thought we could raise the upper shroud tang attachment point about 3.5" being the chainplates are going to be about that much higher. That puts the stays and shrouds up at the top of the mast for more stability.

The one question have is will 6061 T6511 be dissimilar enough from 6061 T6 to cause corrosion issues? I don't want to have the fitting welded to the top of the mast. Transporting the mast would be a pain and I don't think I really want to pay the welder to come to me. That seems like an unnecessary expense at the premium they charge. Any ideas out there? Chime in, please.

[Rico]

Nice Job Tony! I have masthead envy!
Since you are going to the trouble of fabbing a new masthead, you can give yourself the luxury of good attaachment points for your kites and smart access (for a tricolor, & instruments perhaps?). I know I am typically against electronic toys, but proper room for them makes the idea very tempting!

Re: your question; The additional numbers are post manufacturing processes for the alloy... You should have no issues at all with corrosion.
For reference:
http://www.alcoa.com/adip/catalog/pdf/Extruded_Alloy_6061.pdf

[Tony G]

Whoa! Wait a minute, Rico. That,unfortunately, is not my mast. But that post is a little miss leading...they are just examples of options I am leaning toward. Of the three on the work bench, the one on the left would probably suit all of my needs. But I gotta admit, I have a bit of a case of masthead envy from looking at all of the different pictures out there on the web, in the cloud, where ever they are!

[ebb]

My original masthead fitting looks like it was dumped into a bucket of acid. Worst corrosion there than in the cast fitting in the bottom of the mast.

I had Ballenger Spars fabricate a new one.
They started with a 3/4" thick piece of aluminum loosely cut to fit into the mast.
Then there is a 1/4" cover plate shaped to the exterior mast dimension SCREWED onto the insert with 4 #14 flathead screws.
They are well INSET on the plate so that fastenings thru the mast wall will less likely run into them.
If you had trouble getting the old fittings out you may have less options for new fastening placement.

Welded to that plate down the length are twin vertical 3/16" plates that almost exactly follow the tipped-hat style of the original:
the front being tipped lower than the aft. Like the original.
The twin plates have a space between them 9/16" wide. Outside to outside measure is 15/16". Just like the original.

The high end, about 3 3/4' H measured up from the cover plate has two holes drilled through, one for the backstay. The shorter (2 1/2") front end has one hole thru for the forestay.
There should be two. I'm trying to find a reason why the jib block cannot be hung off the masthead?
It is an excellent fabricated rendition of the original casting.

The two plates are welded together across their flat top with a narrow strip. My copy has the welded piece go all the way FORWARD to the rounded tip. So while the original casting has 'ears' on both ends of the plates, the Ballenger version has the plates welded together further out over the hole for the forestay. The radiused end tips have been lopped off and corner rounded. The reason being that
immediately above that we've added a single loop spinaker bail. Which is fastened with three 1/4" bolts thru 1/4" s.s. plate of the 5/16"D rod bail ....and thru the extended welded strip on top the fitting. Honking!
The holes for the stays are the original 3/8". I may be going larger.

It weighs in at 3.10lbs. With the old one actually slightly heavier. If I had immediate access to a laser cutter I'd unscrew the 3/4" insert and have it hollowed out like the original cast one. But as a straight side 7/8" wide donut .... that might take two or three ounces off the total.

Hope this gives you some ideas.


This description assumes you want to reproduce the original masthead fitting.
The dimensions of the various aluminum plate were well chosen by Ballenger to end up with a new fitting that is lighter than the original.
And perhaps stronger than the original if not only for the fact that it is built from plate and not cast.
www.onlinemetals.com can supply you with small pieces of 6061T6 plate. If I felt I had the time, it wouldn't be two big a deal to cut and shape the pieces.
Yours truly would then go to a pro with a TIG to have them welded. I might start with a mock up out of plywood and cardboard to be sure
of dimesions and create patterns for jig sawing and/or router. And to think about whether I wanted to slavishly copy the Pearson outdated original.
For an exposed cast aluminum fitting that worked hard for more than 45 years it's amazing how well it lasted!

The obvious option is to call Ballenger to see if he can make you a copy. His work is always delivered anodized. He would probably have the specs for what he did for A-338
No idea what it would cost! www.ballengerspars.com

[Tony G]

Here's another option that could be made from a section of U-channel flipped upside down. One could chop off the top 2-3 inches of the mast and use it as a sleeve to attach the mast head fitting to the mast. Of course the numbers on this drawing would have to be tweaked to fit our mast. There is not a very elegant way to attach an anchor light, VHF thingy (can't spell antennae), wind instrument/annenometer though.

[Tony G]

Here's a few photos of the toe-rail idea I've been tossing around. The styro model isn't complete as I ran out of time last weekend. Even though I get the idea and see it whole in my mind, I will finish the entire run asap.

It has evolved from the original plan of a 2 1/2" tall by 1" wide mahogany toe-rail we cut several years ago. After seeing Ebb's installation it became very clear that there had to be a way to clear away any shipped water held on deck by the higher toe-rails. Ebb has some very classic looking scuppers added to Lil'Gull, and I was ready to start sawzalling my molded toe-rails but chickened out. Then this idea came wandering by.

I can still use the rails we already cut by simply pegging and gluing pre-shaped risers to the bottom edge. Because of the limited contact area between the factory toe-rail and the wooden addition, it may be necessary to steam them. Hurdle one. Then there is the issue of the chainplates. That one isn't so difficult as longer chainplates (external) can reach to nearly the top edge of the toe-rail as they will be shaped outward around the rub-rail before bending in again and heading up (middle CPs) or slightly inward (fore and aft lower CPs).

So far the most difficult task is how to handle the jib sheet tracks. I had intended to bolt them to the top of the toe-rails, but, I don't know if this higher set up could handle the stresses.

Here's what it looks like. Open for suggestions. Comments.

[ebb]

That is bulwarks. Great word, huh? Ebb didn't get bulwarks, after seeing your mock up sure wish I had. Assume you will not cut the scuppers into the original toerail, down to deck level.
Don't believe it necessary as volumes will still leave the deck and exit aft.

My toe-rail (extensions) are 1" at the top and 1.5" at the original toerail and will they were difficult to bend, they bent on COLD.
Used the deck for stand-up jigs and just used clamps to pull the mahogany into position.
I would predrill the holes for the bolts befor you bend them on. It gaurantees at strate hole thru the fiberglass. But I had real problems with some holes not ending up where they should have
and had to redrill holes with the bulwark already partially in place. I aimed holes to come out in the middle of the toe rails inside with I had previously filled to the level of the inside of the deck.
The hull changes shape continuously and the bolts often enough ended up inside too close to the hull. Just couldn't judge it from ouside.
I believe you must predrill your bulwark bolt holes OFF-CENTER so that they do not enter the top of the old toe rail at 90 degrees - but are slanted inboard. The drilled hole will probably should go into the fibeglass quite close to the inner edge of the old toerail.
I would definitely make two of three drill jigs (especially for the bow and stern where the topsides really curve inward) and try them out - easy enough to fill the holes in.

If you are going to have stanchions you can also design the bases to be part of the bulwark structure. Not only can the base be attached to the bulwarks, but also attach to the deck.

Altho I did bend on most of the mahogany toe rail extension cold, I did attempt to steam the bow pieces
for about 8' back in a plastic pipe steamer with an aluminum turkey fryer boiler on a propane burner. Built a jig to bend in the hot pieces but never got the front ends to take a currve. The plastic pipe was I think 8 or ten inch D 3/4" wall. It got hot enough to get the pipe soft and limp.
The trick is to bend the wood long and once it has set the curve then cut the end. But you have to waste the wood. I also began the cold bending process from the bow where the bow has the most radical curve.
I made it hard on myself by having a truncated section, rather than a flat section. Flat will be easier to bend. The slightly triangular shape will not want to go flat on the top of the toerail.
I did cove the bottom of the bulwark.

I jigged the whole job so that the right angle jig pieces (You may not have actual rigtht angle pieces
but custom the angle of your bulwarks so that they bend outwards at the bow and straighten up at the chainplates and back to the the stern. Sorta did it, maybe nobody will notice that I screw up ! !
But what I'm saying is that I had the whole rail bent and suspended over the toerail so that
holes could be inspected, chamfered, caulking applied, moaning compleated, bad holes filled.
Must have taken photos.
I mean I jigged the whole one side and used those pieces for the other. Used grabbers that pierced the top lamination only. A lot of holes but easy to disappear.

What I ended up with will have no difficulty having T-track lagged on to it. One inch thick bulwrks ought to be just fine. But if not, it would be easy to glue on a doubler 'cleat' to put more meat under the track.

Agree your design gets the green water off just fine without having to cut the original toerail.

[Tony G]

Ebb,

I bet that tapered profile was a bear to wrestle into shape and position. The deck-mounted jigs are a great idea and I will definitly try to make some. Given the present shape of 113's deck we can go all the way through with the "grabber" bolts without any concern. Yeah, there has to be some angles introduced to the toe-rail's' position, if you will. I tried to use the angle of the hull to deck orientation as a guide to the toe-rail's attaching angle. It does flare out more at the bow than midship. As far as attaching I was planning on filling in the bottom side of the factory rail at the same points as the wood rail meets the plastic so the backing plates have a solid surface to bear against. Then the ususal stuff going on topside. Counter sink the bolt holes, lotza 5200. Once it's in place I guess we'll just have to stess test it to see if it can handle the sheet tracks all by itself or if I'll have to back it up some how. First off, Ihave to "get a feel" for this model and see how bad it mucks up the appearance of the boat. I sure do like the feeling of security it adds to the deck without any heeling!

[ebb]

Tony, sir, late last night, rather early this moring, I tagged the end of the preceding post with something else to consider....
But the Association site shuts down in the dead of night, and the addon disappeared..

Filling in the cove up in the sheer inside the boat is plainly a royal pain. A waste of epoxy, effort, and added weight, for no real benefit imco.
Getting long bolts to emerge inside in the right position to take washer and nut is also a royal.
Infact it may be impossible with the 1" profile you propose. (Unless you fasten bolt ends up IN THE COVE, yeah, right!) Must do experimental mockups.
So, was thinking how we might get the lighter profile you propose... and also have a true voyager aspect to it.
Wish I'd done it this way.

STANCHION BULWARK BOARDS
I know I've seen a You-Can-Do-It-Yourself book where bulwarks were added on to the stanchions. The bulwarks had half round ends, weren't yachtsie woodwork additions, but to my eye looked pretty good. Can't find royal book!
We don't have enough stanchions on the Ariel to bend on visually floating boards.
They'd be attached to stanchions about 3/4 to 1 1/2" (to pass spring lines) above the toerail. RIGHT! Not ON the toerail. NOT bulking up the sheer line.

Idea would be to place your regular stanchions on the deck where you think you want them. Then have short stanchions at the height of the boards spaced at regular intervals between them extending the length of bulwarks, fore and aft.
Shorty bases could be welded up out of pieces of plate and tube from onlinemetals. They could be made one sided as you sometimes see bases that are deck mounted but also designed to be fastened to the side of a taller toerail.
They could be designed to allow water to pass by without running into base plate where small amounts of water stand and stain the deck.

When the project is done and viewed from off the side you'd see nicely varnished wood, even painted wood or zero-maintenance star-board suspended close to the toerail with stainless tube pieces glinting at at regular intervals thru the space between. The bulwark would still appear over the toerail but not attached to it and look neat inside. If the short stanchions look too buzy then maybe bent and buffed s.s. plate might work better or smaller diameter pipe and base than the regular 1" stuff.

Might be easier to get your bulwark to lean out a little up in the bow.
BUT that might not be necessary as imco the addition using stanchion bases or brackets isn't visualized as an extension of the hull sides,
but as an expression of deck furniture. So up in the bow they would be flared out ,or not, in relation to the deck, and what you need there.
Anyway, I'm not going down to litlgull today and rip off the toerail extentions I have. Too late for us.
They took a bucket of royal sweat & a bucket of blood to put on. I think I like the stanchion idea much better. You know.....or a variation.

All along the deck inboard at the toerail there is solid fiberglass to attach such a bulwark .... no balsa.
Because you keep the original toerail like it is, the added bulwark could be taller than what you have to aesthetically design for the eye with a pasted on toerail addition. You can also can replace the original s.s. half-round over the original seam, rather than something that has to cover two seams.
For me it is the cruiser-circumnavigator-Serafyn-Pardey look that only a wooden boat with extended ribs coming thru the deck can have.
This way can be just as Pardey-shippy and add a huge amount of security at no expense to the Alberg philosophy.

The bulwark boards on the Ariel won't need to be more than 3 or 4" tall to get the effect and do the job.
If you are planning lifelines the system provides strong bracing for the tall stanchions.
Dang! Maybe I go down now and rip those buggers off ! ! !:eek:

[Tony G]

I hear ya, Ebb. There was a Cape Dory 28 (I think) named Fenix that had a set up much like what you're describing.

I found this photo this morning that has what I was thinking right down to the chainplates. Maybe a little softer bend in the stainless though...

[ebb]

Golly, is that locomotive rilly an Alberg?
Maybe a Pittsburg or a Hamburg....:D


Aha!
Found a reference and some ideas in John Roberts' "Optimize Your Cruising Sailboat.
Under a chapter called Bulwarks he says he first saw the idea in Hal Roth's book "After 50,000 Miles"
where Roth welded bronze plates to his bronze stanchions and bolted on 1X4 teak planks.

Roberts describes and illustrates a method where you use "stanchion wrap plates" (pipe 'U' clips)
that go around the tubes and flange out for fastenings to attach the planks.
But imco you need a number of stanchions to make a fair bend in the bulwark plank.
Otherwise there'll be straight lengths of plank and single stanchions under a lot of pressure. Would bother me.

Bulwarks as add-ons is described in Daniel Spurr's "Upgrading the Cruising Sailboat, 2nd edition" with a
masterful illustration by Bruce Bingham. Pg 197. "Newfound Metals, Port Townsend makes cast end fittings and deck brackets* for 3 5/16" boards."
But there may not be allowance for our 1 1/2" tall toe. Cast bronze heavy and $$$.
Bingham also draws a right-on alternate bracket to fabricate out of 3/16" stainless, that obviously can be customed to whatever board height.
This is an above the molded toerail bulwark, allowing "opening for passage for breast or spring docking lines."
He shows the jib track on the deck by the bulwark. And draws lifeline stanchions that are independant of the bulwark system.

* I don't see them online.

[Tony G]

No, that ain't no Alberg, is it? But it looks like it holds water out and that puts it way ahead of me!

I finished off the first toe-rail model this afternoon and put on the rub-rail profile. The rub-rail has to be shaped to a finer point on the ends but you can get the idea from these pics of what I'm going for. They will be capped with our factory stainless "half round". The question now is should we scrap the mahogany ones I cut a few years ago for some white oak? I had initially intended to keep the mahogany ones bright as this was going to be a fresh water boat that served as a floating lake home. My rational is the white oak can be sealed and covered with glass and paint minimizing the amount of maintenance.

[Tony G]

I was digging through one of the boxes of hardware here looking for the stantion bases to see how we'd mount some brackets on them when I was suddenly reminded about the bronze rail chocks we'd bought a while back.

I guess this toe-rail would work too. We could put in some moulded side deck scuppers and drain them overboard.

[Tony G]

Supposing we go with a moulded side deck scupper and drained it with a short run of tubing right out the side of the hull. If it comes out above the rub-rail do you think the water will drip off of the top edge or will surface tension bring it right around the profile and run down the side of the hull?

[ebb]

Looks pretty damn good! ...doesn't it?

You gonna glass over that foam
or change it out for wood?:D
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Later Edit.
You posted that pic just above here without my noticing it - with a question.
I have to suppose from what you are saying that you do NOT have Pearson built in deck drains (right there by the cockpit), Is that so?
Let me go the Gallery and see if there's a pic on ebb's....

The best shot of the way the deck drain is made is Ebb's gallery page 1 post 11.
There you are looking at a snake of fiberglass reinforced plastic that seems to be part of the hull - but it just stops suddenly.
Where it stops there is a hole exiting the hull around where the boot stripe is.

There is a hole at the other end up ON the deck by the toerail at the cockpit that drains into the 'snake''.
No way of knowing how the snake was made. It may have been started, I imagine, with a cardboard tube
cut in half longways, saturated with polyester and pasted to the hull inside, port and starboard.
There has to be a jog of what may be tubing that shunts from the overhead deck hole inside and over to the hull.

The glassing inside up at the deck was way too messy to figure out how the shunt connection was made.
That jog must have been a short piece of fiberglass tube. A mess of polyester and matt, but workman-like.
There has never been a second thought about this feature in the years I have been looking at either one of these oddities.

I added a layer of cloth & epoxy inside over port and starboard snakes of deck drain plumbing - later in the remodel.
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Later Edit
OK Tony. Hope I understood your post and you do not have the side deck drains like A-338 - as provided by Pearson.
Couple of photos on pg4 of ebb's galery. Pg 4, post #61, photo of the port cockpit locker conversion. In the top lefthand corner you see a bit of the port toerail and a ROUND DOT next to it. Dot is the drain.
See it again in the photo at post #63 - in the lower left corner.
If you don't have this drain (which is essentially for incidental water like dew runoff or light rain), it's just to get the deck dry. If I wanted to duplicate this feature I would do it only the way Pearson did it!
By making it part of the hull, glassing the hell out of it, and NOT using any kind of rubber hose. Has to be built in, over built, cannot be hose-clamped hose, which is going to have an accident as soon as you've forgotten about it. Hope this is useful.
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If you want to drain the deck with a tube at a down angle thru the upper topsides, make it a permanent fiberglass tube, Expect that a high up drain might stain the topsides. That's probably why Pearson did the upscale thing by building it in and exiting the drain down at the waterline!

[Tony G]

Nope! I aint got none of them factory jobbies.

There is a thread here all about the factory through deck scuppers discussing them, their placement and trying to determine what hull number they started adding them. (I offered 113 for the ugliest scupper installation and won it) I saw that David Browne added some on his Bristol 29, Sally B., which are a lot like the A/C factory deck scuppers. I had thought about duplicating his, but that is another hole pretty close to the waterline and I there's just something inside me that stops me from drilling holes in the boat that low. Though, it does look like an ellegant solution to the situation. I was just hoping that the shape of the rub rail would be enough to send the water away from the hull.

Way, way back when, I cut the toe rail and rub rail from a couple of giant mahogany planks we scored from the local hardwood supplier. Those babies were like 17" wide, 5/4 and 14 plus feet long! The styro models are just that, models. I am considering redoing them in white oak and covering them with fabric and epoxy. Bright wood rails would be bolted on in a thick layer of adhesive like, you guessed it, 3M's 5200. The glassed on alterntive would get bedded in thickened epoxy. I would still bolt them to the hull through epoxy lined holes. Probably with silicon bronze carridge bolts. I would even go so far as teporarily mounting the stainless half-round before covering it with fabric so those holes could get drilled oversized and filled with thickened epoxy trying to completely isolate that rubrail. All of this adds up to a whole bunch of microballoons and sanding....crap.

[ebb]

Tannins in white oak, quercus alba, make it almost impossible for any coating including epoxy to stick well. That goes for gluing it too.
Don't know that I can find source for that, but I can't see encapsulating white oak. (Maybe if you 40grit the surface for glassing.)
When you research it you will find confirmation. Don't know that with all those cutouts that you'd make it easy on yourself to glue fabric onto the plank. The oak far away harder than epoxy and glass. I'd guess that if you bang glass covered oak it will delaminate the glass coating.

Mahogany, while not bulletproof, is more quiet and not as exclusive as w.oak. My word is 'docile'.
If you have the mahogany, you know it is far easier to shape, drill, sand. And BEND. Why not use it? Maybe consider it easier to repair if the reason you want to use w.oak is indestructability. Oak is also heavier. True white oak won't absorb much damp but it's a bear.
Mahogany can definitely be fiberglassed. But hard non-porus w.oak? ? ?

If your section is 1" you will have to steam to make the curves that fit the bow. Have to steam to get the curves fair.

If you are considering bolting thru the top, I sure hope you do some tests to make sure you will get the interior ends of the bolts where you can put a washer on and turn the nuts. You may find that predrilling thru the edge of the bulwark has to be at an angle where the top is further outboard and the bottom of the hole furher inboard. Not strate thru. Depends on how thick the hull and glassing is inside. And the inward turn of the hull.
Wouldn't trust even 316 stainless in white oak. You'd have to use silicon bronze. Your tests may show that you'll have to go with 1/4" to find room - rather than 5/16" bolts, which are twice as strong.

That's why maybe 'brackets' off the deck would be far easier and actually stronger than going thru the top.
You'd still have the bulwarks ON or over the toerail.
And looking at this from the I-wish-I'd-done-it-a-better-way perspective, using deck fastened brackets would allow me to finesse the bulwark to
angles that please - rather than going with what I got by drilling fastenings in thru the top. This aspect of control, how it looks, may be the most important. One final cosideration is that attaching the bulwark sideways by stanchion brackets would make it easy to remove, refurbish, replace.
If we attach it thru the top of the toerail, I can tell you, brother, it is there FOREVER ! ! !
But then whaduayeknow?
The foam mockup looks great! Really right on!

[mbd]

Tony, your first toe rail mockup made me think of the BCCs...

8235

This particular one opted to go the paint-it route - looks good too!

8236

Nice secure deck with those bulwarks...

8237


...Then you pulled out those bronze rail chocks. You should definitely design around those babies!

How about a toe rail treatment similar to your coamings? Build them up with fiberglass - you wouldn't have to worry about thru-bolting. Then, you could top them off with a nice mahogany cap so you'd still have something to varnish.

8238

[Commander227]

Tony,
I have very strong opinions on rub rails...here, let me share them with you. If you do not agree with my opinions it is because you are wrong.
The rub rail is there to protect the finish on your boat and act as a bumper. It should stand proud of the freeboard and be able to take some abuse. It should be something you are comfortable using. Tough. Plastic or rubber with stainless. Not pretty and fragile. You have a full keel and a small rudder, you may need to put that rub rail up against a piling to pivot your boat out of a slip. (you know it won't turn in reverse against any kind of wind.) Wanna stop in somewhere against a concrete or rusty sea wall? Fenders are fine but tend to flip out of the way when you really need them. Don't put soft wood under glass, you will crush it. Use oak if you must but know it is sacrificial and will look like crap in a few years, it's pretty hard to maintain bright work that is bolted up against your hull. Look at the plastic rub rails on the Com-PAC 27 and 35. Alot like what you have but tough and usable.
Mike

[ebb]

Nah, I think Tony should stick with the styrofoam.
It's cheap and a pretty color and easily replacable.;)

Could upscale to a WalkerBay inflatable tube type bumper.....

[Tony G]

Ebb, sir. The toe rails will be unglassed and finished bright. I was thinking about glassing the rub rail to the hull, or, here's a thought, maybe just the base of the rub rail. And add the real sacrificial wood outside of that with the stainless half round cap(???) But I had intended all along to keep the toe rails varnished wood even after I decided to reduce the exterior maintenance as much as possible, or, maybe as much as allowable.

Mike D., I really, really like the channel cutters. From the Falmouth cutter all the way up. They are the most simple and elegant in design. If there wasn't so many strikes against my adaptaion of that design I would just sell the bronze chocks and go for it. Safety and drainage. Two of the most important characteristics I'm striving for. (yeah, a smidgin of looks too)

Mike M., Is this a classic example of bullying? ;) You know I'll be using them. For all of those reasons and more I'm sure. What did NAs use before vinyl and rubber became common? Now don't think for a second that I think I'm an Alberg, Hess or Hinkley. It's just that I see all of these older hulls out there with rub rails for, what I imagine are the very reasons you mentioned above and I think, sure looks "shippy" but in reality it is for the added protection that I want to add to my hull. How about this, what if the rub rail is made from white oak, for destructinve resistance, bolted on with all of the same hardware isolating measures, but bedded in a flexible compound and then painted to match the hull?

[ebb]

Tony,
I've got some Ipe that I milled for caprail for the toerail-arks on litlgull, didn't like the profile, (another story..)
They are quite thin and have just been hanging around - totally unchanged - under the boat.
They aren't cracked, broken, bent, split, haven't changed color much either.

Next door on the farm here they have an unshaded deck made from Ipe - 4X4s for the railends - steps... it all recently has been professionally oiled to give the painter some income. But the oil in recent rains I swear has washed off! Nothing soaks into ipe, it has no pores.
But the decking grayed to a light bleached tone and showed the slightest shrinking and weathering imaginable for a totally eposed wood. No splits and the smallest shortest non-connecting surface cracks I've seen. For the time it's been there, 5 or 6 years maybe more, teak would have fried and summer wood caved, and the surface would have had to be sanded to be saved.

Except for the color the Ipe is essentially unchanged since it was put down.

Ipe loves water, is perfect for the marine environment, doesn't rot, doesn't mold stain, nothing eats it. It's other name is ironwood and has the brown tone of teak when kept bright and varnished, and looks like classic teak when gray. Ipe is FOUR times harder than teak, and twice as hard as oak.

I'm still going to use it on the boat for the rub rail, partial caprails in the bow, coaming caps and samson post. It is a filthy wood to mill and rout. It's only bad side. It's harder than hell but tools beautifully. All Ipe on litlgull will be left bare.
I think Ipe is the wood you could use BARE, no maintenance, on your topsides rubrail. And you might give it some thought for your bulwarks.
Your guy might have it if he supplies material for decks. I found a local that has different plank thicknesses.
So you could get your rubrail out of a single thickness - wouldn't consider gluing this stuff, maybe the scarf joint w/ resorcinol, but haven't looked into that.
I bet that's the stuff you've been looking for.

[Tony G]

Ipe would do. I can handle that unfinished teak silver color. But if it doesn't like liquids, how the heck do we glue it? I still would like to know how White Oak likes paint. I've found several web sites where owners have put on rub rails made of oak but they have all been bright wood finished. Not a painted rail in the bunch.:(

[ebb]

[TONY, this post has grown like mushroom...Tell me to remove it and I will... Really!]
Nobody has ever glued Ipe successfully. Nobody on the woodforums knows how to use Resorcinol
much less how to spell it. Wouldn't attempt gluing pieces together longways.
But why we can't have a rubrail with one strip riding on top of another and mechanically bolted to the hull - it won't matter at all.
In fact you can plan for the future renewable by just replacing the outer piece, leaving the thru-bolted stuff in place!
Bed the bottom strip onto the hull and the second strip on top, both with butyl tape. Bolt in the first, screw on the topper.

Another unknown is whether Ipe eats stainless (acidic) so I'd use bronze - carriage bolts for the inside rail.
Somewhere I've gotten bronze flat-head cut-thread screws that have Frearson heads. Deep, sharp phillips' crosses that uses one special driver for all screw sizes. Frearson cross won't slip the driver bit. Could break the screw. Exposed bronze will patina, lose their bling, and disappear better than s.s.
[EDIT. Jamestown has them, you'll find them cheaper elsewhere.]
Bronze, being softer, will require careful predrilling, a generous hole for the threads and a separate chase for the body, plus a chamfer for the head. Tube butyl might work as a driving lube and guarantee removal later. Jamestown has a special lube with a trick name. I'm looking for oval head frearsons.

Make the 8 to 1 scarf joints diagonal across the face of the strake. So that when we're looking for it, it will be staring at us. Don't want the other scarf that ends up looking like a fish head on top with the thin point exposed. The joint will be a good fit. I would butyl the scarf joint as well, clamp the hell of it to squeeze 95% of the rubber out. And use the same surface screws close to the joint to keep it together.

We have choice of white, gray, and black butyl tape. If we varnish I guess go with black. Against the hull, if white, go with white. Between layers go gray especially if you're keeping the rubrail natural. But we will be squeezing nearly all of the compound out of the joints.
We want to slightly cove out the back of the strakes that bear on the hull to capture the bedding compound. Do it to the one on top too. And chamfer all holes going thru the rail to hold compound so they won't capillary water. Tube rubber can't keep the water out better than butyl, so find ways to keep butyl in the joints. The only downside with butyl is that it stays sticky forever, so if any seam is exposed it will collect hitch-hikers.
You may like tube butyls better, they are a thinner consistency, easier joint squeeze out, compatible with b.tape in my experience, and also tend to skin over better than the tape material which doesn't. Not all tube butyls are created equal. If interested let me know.

That is my methodology for putting Ipe on litlgull. However WEIGHT should be considered. Here are some for durable/moderately durable softwoods. Boardfoot weight (12X12x1 OR 7.5'L x 2"W x 3/4"H - as rubrail example) - DougFir 2.75lbs, SCypress 2.8lbs, YellowCedar 2.7lbs, PortOrford 2.5lbs. Mod durable/durable hardwoods: Elm 3.1, Honduras 3.5, Philippine 3.9, Yellow Pine 3.5/4.2, Teak 4.1, White Oak 4.2, IPE 6lbs.
A 2" wide, 3/4" thick, 7.5 foot long piece of Ipe weighs in at SIX pounds. That's amazing. And may be too much weight to add to a boat on its deck and ends.:eek: Mahagony looks like the right wood for the job, capped with a bit of Ipe ! ! ! [Boardfoot of Aluminum = 13.75lbs. Potatoes 4lbs. SeaWater 5.3lbs.] Of the softwoods AlaskaYellowCedar or PortOrford are nice dense woods to work with, and may be available in your neck of the woods.


RESORCINOL makes a dark purple glue line. Your ipe joint will be tight, maybe it will just disappear. Make up an 8to1 scarf test piece and glue it under controlled comditions. Maybe you're the chosen ONE! And prove to us it can be done!!!
High pressure clamping, strict mix proportions using the gram scale, The right temp - AND add a bisquit or a spline of 1/8" Ipe in edge slots joining the two pieces with the purpose of getting absolute register, less slippin and slidin - and addin more glue surface.
Scrape the faying surfaces - taking thin micro shavings off - just prior to gluing. Right! Literally just befor glue up. Use only denatured alcohol to do a final de-oiling, defingerprinting.
Wouldn't use strong solvents like acetone & toluene which imco can draw oil out of the wood onto the surfaces, actually contaminating them.

If you are in a testing mode I would try Titebond III, for the hell of it, just to see if it works. White Oak too,
Doubt it. Wouldn't use it for the rubrail on the hull. TitebondIII would leave no visible glueline. But it may also get squeezed too thin to be glue.
Rather than a glue, Resorcinol is a chemical reaction, which is why it might not work on a strange wood as dense, oily & acidic as Ironwood.
I'd check it out anyway. Imco none of those 'white' glues are any use for hardwoods anyway. Gorilla Glue is not an option. All my opinion.

Ipe creates dirty, sticky, pervasive, toxic dust. www.woodweb.com/knowledge.../Working_Safely_with_Ipe.html There are two/three more articles [Type Ipe into Search: "Gluing Ipe in Harsh Outdoor Environment" imco ONLY Gene Wengert really knows what he is talking about!]
/ www.Earthpaint.net Blog www.earthpaint.net/blog/how.../Ipe-decks-and-tropical-hardwoods/ Persuasive opinions!
__________________________________________________ __________________________
*That Is the Question. attributed to William Shakescrewgun

Pluck a feather from every passing goose, but follow no one absolutely..

[mbd]

Saw this pic today and it reminded me of what I imagine Tony's coaming treatment will look like:

8647

I like those stern chocks too!

Been awhile since an update Tony! Hopefully you're so busy with your final punch list and getting A-113 ready to splash that you just haven't had time to update us! :D

[Tony G]

Those chocks are beauties, Mike. That's a clean lookin' boat. Probably not an active cruiser :0 Our coamings don't look like that. I'd be happy if mine were all the same color. I was planning on a wood "cap" from the sheet winches forward with a couple of raised non-slip strips inset to act as "place your foot here when stepping" spots.

I have been incredibly busy this summer. Oldest daughter got married. The missus and I bought a wee little 1930's, stucco bungalow that needed a lot of work. A lot of work. I haven't screwing off enough at work so they promoted me...promoted?? naw, just made my job more difficult.

As far as the boat goes the only thing I've done is bought a Taylors 029 stove. It's kind of heavy weighing in at close to thirty pounds but it is such a beauty I'll make an exception. A little bigger than the Atom stove I was planning for but it has the "warming oven" and two burners. Oh the culinary miracle worker... I've been meaning to post pictures. We need more pictures here.

[ebb]

AND you and your partner getting your own cottage!

The IPE deck next door here has another anomally that you may have alluded to in your post above .... it's a bloody dark and heavy wood.
The wood used as an exposed deck material at another structure on the property here has never been coated and gone grey. The deck next door was, as I said, oiled. The house-keeper for the estate lives there and the sliding glass wall-doors, year round, were kept totally covered inside and out in an attempt to ward off heat generated by the wood! The dark non-porus wood blasts heat like iron metal when the sun beats on it. The owner called in his favorite contractor and most of the decks have now been covered with roof and tinted polycarbonate panels. Good landlord!
You could stand on the deck in the spring sunshine and feel the heat growing underfoot, like standing on a stove burner.
The other grayed-out Ipe deck produces nowhere near the same noticable heat.

So, those varnished trim pieces on the boat in Mike's pic - in hot sun - would be rather uncomfortable, IF they were any darker.
The blond trim looks right-on.
Wonder if there's any varnish that has reflective flecks in its formula, looks the same but bounces some of the sun away?

Tony, It would not be amiss to see befor and afters of your '30's bungalow !
Your next home should have a keel.;)

[Tony G]

It's been a while so I thought a general message was in order. I haven't forgotten this sailboat site,or, that it is a sailboat site. Because so, I'll keep it brief.

Things haven't slowed down one bit here with work and the house taking all of our time and money. There was a list of projects that had to be done before winter and a recent cold snap followed by an early snow threw a monkey wrench in the machine. It isn't going to stick around but the furnace now takes priority over the dash coat on the stucco. I have been in the shop recreating some trim pieces and profiles and what not but not a lick of boat work. It hurts to see her there and not do anything more than run my hand along the curves and admire the inherent beauty in front of me. The pangs are only eased by knowing this house fits into the master plan as a home base and income for future cruising. And this house is a beauty in its own right too weighing in with little more than 700 sq.ft. per floor. As a household we are trying to decrease our footprint more and more and liking it. Like so many have said before, with everything we "give up" it seems we get so much more back.

Once the snow comes to stay we will have a chance to filter through the myriad of pictures and find some that will hopefully capture the character of this house and post one or two. Until then, we must press on...

Everyone, keep posting and adding pictures and links to this site.

[ebb]

Cottage that supports cruising? Ah, yes: Breadfruit!:rolleyes:

[c_amos]

Do not despair Tony! You will launch one day... We will all celebrate with you, and I look forward to toasting your achievement while in some warm tropical anchorage some day.

until then, may the vision sustain you through another winter... May your spring, and your launch date arrive before you know it friend.

Fair winds,

[Tony G]

How about a toe rail treatment similar to your coamings? Build them up with fiberglass - you wouldn't have to worry about thru-bolting. Then, you could top them off with a nice mahogany cap so you'd still have something to varnish.

8238

Mike you are a genius! I don't know why, or how many times, I have read that and it just didn't sink in...I are a idiot...well, a dolt, at the very least. That sure would make things easier as far as maintenance goes, with the exception of varnishing. Plus we could make them as high as we wished. Toe rails could be bulwarks if we want! The only substantial bolting needed would be where the chocks get mounted, and that would have to be worked out being they are pretty skinny lengthwise. There is one wrinkle though. I cut the mahogany into those 2" to 2.5" strips years ago anticipating attaching them on their edge. I don't know if I could steam them enough to pull them into a flat "cap"...

But I like this idea! Mucho gracias senior Mike!

[ebb]

Tony, those already milled mahogany strips are nearly 'square' at 2"X2.5".

Bet you can bend them cold on the sheer.
At the very most you'd only have to steam the foreward lengths where the wood has to make the tighter curve right to the stem.

Way to do that is to lever over-long pieces so that the curve is continuous.
So that when you cut to fit the wood has a full curve memory. Maybe only steam can do this.
Tried to do that with the rather huge bull toerails on litlgull.
But ended with the very front ends running outboard (running straight) not following the molded toerail as I wished.
The curve on an Ariel gets more radical approaching the stem.
Honduras mahogany is not known for steam bending well. (see Steam bending mahogany, woodenboat forum.)
Determine the easy bending side of your strips - there will be one - scarf these sides so that the full run length wants to naturally curve that way.

No doubt you have to scarf pieces to get your 30' length.
The scarf can be in the chainplates area.
So if you determine you actually need to steam the rail, only the pieces forward of the plates need it. Am positive the remaining run aft can be bent on cold.


Cut maybe 30 or 40 L shaped pieces of good quality plywood. Screwed one leg right angles to the deck all along the toe rail, stem to stern.. And clamped the rails to the up leg. Because the deck has a crown, to get the rail to stand up right (say, 90 degrees) the L pieces are less than ninety. Didn't have near enough clamps for each helper, but it doesn't matter since the mahogany is pulled against them and won't need clamping.

All kinds of adjusting, shimming and drilling can be done this way: Violating the deck with hundreds of
screw holes. That's what epoxy is for. The rail can be fitted tight and predrilled for fastening & then suspended in place (if your up legs are tall enough) this way for final gooping, allowing the underside of the rail to be gunned standing below!!!.....then lowered into place, easy as pie.
Think the L jig pieces make control of the new rail additions much easier. Allows total removal if necessary (chamfering holes and/or priming) while working them.

Milled a mild concave into the bearing surface of the mahogany using a table router.
I believe it helped to 'register' the rail onto the fiberglass toerail.


Have now been looking for too long at litlgull's bullwarky toerails.
Certainly know that mahogany looks gorgeous when varnished.
Also know that tomorrow I'm not going to want to get on my knees to do the honors.
After initial varnishing, the toe rail extension can be painted like the deck, up to the varnished cap.
Or that cap, if teak or ipe, left to gray out.

Varnishing the new rail outside would continue until patience ran out.
If you end up with a cap rail AND a rub rail (to cover the seam) they could remain varnishable
and the new rail addition outside coated to the color of the hull. I'll probably end up doing that on litlgull.
Because I got no time to VARNISH!:mad:


If you are not working on the boat, but have some long benches set up (or use the vertical two-by studs on the shop wall), would it be possible
to jig the tables to start cold pre-bending the deck curve into the pieces?
[Don't remember if I yattered about this: but I made up litlgull's rails scarffed full length
and steambent only the front of the rails in the steambox at the shop. Only partially successful, as mahogany never gets actually limp like oak.
And after dry trundled them down to the boat on the Yakima racks for fitting.
I must have had some springback after taking them out of their bending jig
- because I didn't get the front bends radical enough. BUT, only you and I know that!!!:cool:]


Rail ends at the bow are a problem: I see you may be using the 2X2.5 pieces as cap rails. If most of the shaping & rounding is done prior to mounting
there would be less wood to bend and therefor more easy a cold bend onto the toe rail curve, even if bent on the wide.
If the pieces won't bend up at the end in the bow, then perhaps they could be left rough and shaped/carved to the perfect curve
with the new rail fastened in place?
Better may be special shaped pieces for the bow, scarfed on to the ends of the new rails, carved on the bottom to fit the tight toe rail curve
- with custom built-in fairleads and chocks.

Sorry for the length of this.:o

[mbd]

Aw Tony, you're too kind. I was merely thinking of how it was done on our O'Days, and mulling over how I may do something along those lines someday as well. I have no doubt however, that you will come up with a creative and elegant solution that I can copy, or try anyway...

[Tony G]

Mike, no I'm not.. Just put the winter wrap on the O'Day last weekend and parked her in the newly designated winter spot.

Ebb, the mahogany is cut into the same dimensions as the pink styro mock-ups that have the bronze chocks set in them in the earlier posts a few pages back. The pieces are just over one inch thick by something in the range of 2 to 2 1/2 inches tall (I forget the exact size) and a little over 14 feet long. So that is the wrinkle. I'd have to flop them on their side and THEN bend them to fit the curve of the sheer if I wanted to use them as a cap. I do have an uncut plank of the same stock left that is around 9 to 10 inches wide by 14 plus feet that may work for the extreme curves up front, but, I don't think there is enough to do both the starboard and port sides. Looks like I may have jumped the gun again...

[ebb]

BENDING FAT RAILS
7/30/2015 Hey Tony, Just erased the olde post here -- couldn't understand it !
You know, Ebb bent the wood toerails on littlegull by screwing plywood L-shape angles to the deck, using them to bend, hold, suspend the new mahogany to the molded rail. Took pictures, but don't know if they ended up here in the Forum. Milled the wood rail so that the base is 1 1/2", tapering up to around 1". The long run is also tapered: about 3 1/2" up front to maybe 2 1/4" at the transom. This made the bending a bear from the chainplates forward, but easy, almost neutral, going aft. Trouble bending the ends, the tips don't bend, want to run straight off the molded toe rail...even if you start the bend at the front.
That part, mostly aft of the chainplateis, made easier by having the wood itself act as a lever. The more the bent piece is out of square, the harder it is to bend. It can't bend flat like a rectangular shape, it'll follow it's least resistance, it wants to bend toward its thinner dimension. In this case upward !!!!!!

Really screwed up the toerail angle as it sits on the boat rail* , because I spent an inordinate amount of stress drilling the fricken bolts, which I got wrong about a third of the time. The hull radically angles-in up front where I had the longest bolts to drill. Can't remember the spacing: 16"-18", and had to redrill a number of times to get enough real estate around the shaft to screw on the nut... a number of times without the washer.
*May actually have switched port rail with starboard at some point.... giving the rails an unplanned and pronounced outward flare. The
truncated section was milled on one side of the rail: one side square, one side angled. I unconsciously switched the rails and mounted the
'short side'. the right angle side outward. I only admit this to you, Tony. Made the rails look like they leaned, because they did.

Two things: coved the wood rail at the interface to hold butyltape (helped register new rail to the old, and it's by far the friendliest compound to clean up after, whatever other good reason to use it.)
AND chamfered the thru holes on the molded rail, where all of the waterproofing is really accomplished.

So if you have this semi-permanent clamping jig along the decks by using ply 'L' brackets screwed to the deck... when setting up, each bracket can be customed to the clamping it's doing... many brackets need no clamps, just shims, because the force is all inward. Depending on the thickness and shape of the new rail, the jigs forward, where bending is more fierce, will need reinforcement. You know, what the hell, the deck can be easily repaired, just screw-in the props where they're needed, no problem. No problem removing work off the jig to make adjustments, or as I had to, aim the drill with a shorter bit without the toerail in the way. Used 5/16" bronze bolts. Cheated a few times with 1/4". No way I do anything like this again!
How can holes be chamfered in the molded rail with the wood rail in the way....? Actually the jig uprights were long enough so that the
wood rail could be suspended on the boat with a few clamps, except forward of the chainplates, which was a growler. And chamfering done with the right-angle drill.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________


later EDIT (after Tony's three-years-gone following post, #544)...so as not to interrupt...... YOU'RE BACK !

To quote Thoreau: "Our houses are such unwieldy property that we are often imprisoned rather than housed by them." ... Or another:
"There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know.
The keeping of bees, for instance."
Or, for instance, if Henry David were a sailor:... 'Sunny day, tiller in hand, and a freshening breeze.':cool:

[Tony G]

We've been stocking up on boat stuff lately. One of those things was a new outboard-finally!9662
Of course we have to modify the lazarette a little bit to make it fit. Fortunately enough people have already done this mod so all I have to do is copy what someone else has done.9663
I was ready to give up the traveler but it looks like we will be able to juuust sneak the OB in behind it. Whew..9664
So it's time to clean the slate and get started again. Thanks to Ebb, James Baldwin, and everyone else for doing all the hard work up front.

[mbd]

Good to see you back at it, Mister!

[Tony G]

There has been a lot of work going on here but they're all small jobs that have to be done before anything noticeable can happen. So for three weeks of working on her in the evenings and weekends, it is kind of disappointing we can't see more progress. But I hope that all changes soon!

Even though we've finally found a local source for marine grade plywood, we have been double coating all the pieces with straight epoxy, and additionally, many of the pieces have been getting either 7 ounce or 3.2 ounce cloth added for more wear and tear protection. I figure it is cheap insurance being most of the added weight is in the epoxy itself.

The outboard well modification has consisted of: finding where the outboard actually had to sit, fore and aft, in order to still be able to swing the lower unit up out of the water, cutting out the factory "collar" after we gathered some landmarks, then grinding (yeah!) back the buttocks so we could add a couple (3) layers of 1208 biaxial to form the new outer "skin" that used to be the outboard well, grind back a much larger area inside the lazarette to add four more layers of 1208, then just copy what others have done to make the same modification.

[Tony G]

We really lucked out, in my opinion, that the wrap-around coaming I added a few years back can remain in place, along with the traveler, after adding this mod. We did have to cut a "chunk" out of the back side of coaming but there was enough structure left to beef up and keep some strength there.

The lazarette hatch is a different story though. One of the previous owners added a couple of clam shell vents to the hatch on their watch, but never isolated the coring after cutting the 2" vent holes and poking a couple of screws through the top skin. Needless to say there was some delaminating going on in that area, but in reality, I never felt that was an area I'd be walking around on anyway. Maybe I'm wrong there. :confused: I am very happy to say there as no delamination anywhere else on the boat though!

We added the obligatory "hatch hutch", or, "bump" or whatever you want to call it. I started by cutting out the top skin to roughly the internal size of the bump and removing the core along the sides that would remain.9675

Then we made a male mold out of Styrofoam and covered it in plastic tape to act as the release agent. I tried to follow the lines of the cockpit foot well for the taper, the arch of the coaming for the top, and the angle of the reverse sheer of the transom. The form received two layers of the 1208 and a single layer of 3.2 ounce. Yes, it is a bit "rough" yet and will get several layers of micro balloons to fair it out. If you notice, you can see the print on the tape showing through.
96769677

Once the new top skin cured, we flipped the hatch over and cut out the bottom skin and the forward piece of the remaining original structure. I was a little nervous hoping that I didn't severely weaken the hatch turning it into a bigger project, but it seemed pretty rigid for what remained. Although no where near strong enough to be used in its current state. We added a core of 1/4" marine plywood in a simple slab. I toyed with the idea of cutting the core into a XX shape in order to added more of a multiple stringer-like, or, webbing-like structure, but in the end kept it simple. If I find that the coring doesn't add enough strength as is, we can always add transverse stringers.
9678
The cut-out in the coring is to allow a little more room for a couple of protrusions on the back of the outboard when it is tilted forward in the "sailing" position. This side received a layer of 7 ounce cloth to tie it together. Tomorrow evening I'll get to see how stiff the piece actually is after curing for a couple of days.

[Tony G]

Here is another one that shows how crude the interim finish is, along with the lines of the foot well.

[SkipperJer]

Do you expect that your approach will mitigate the exhaust problem of accumulation in the engine cabinet particularly downwind?

[Tony G]

Do you expect that your approach will mitigate the exhaust problem of accumulation in the engine cabinet particularly downwind?

Nope. Nothing I've done here would help a two-stroke breath in a closed up lazarette. Fortunately, the outboard we purchased exhausts through the propeller. If we ever have to replace the motor with one that exhausts out higher up on the lower unit we'd either end up propping the hatch open or modifying the exhaust similar to what Mike (C 227) did on his Honda generator.

[Commander227]

Boy, nothing from 11/2012 until 7/2015 then he just drops right back in like it's been a day.
What's going on man? You doin alright?
Someday I hope to sit down with a growler of say Junkyards Coachgun and hear the Tony G story.

[ebb]

Tony's married....that might be the answer.
Course if he's not married, that might be the answer too!

[Tony G]

Yup, doin' alright. We've had to do a lot of work on the house and property due to the neglect suffered over the last umpteen years. We decided to give all our attention and budget to that first so we would have options as we moved into the next phase of our plan. Plan B is underway now. That is to get the boat to a safe, usable state so we can find out what we really need and if cruising around is even what we want to do. It's a big bet, but after burying a couple more friends and a co-worker, we've embraced the bigger gamble is not trying.

[Tony G]

It has been a long time coming but I finally have a place to take a nap on board!;)

All of the locker lids have been cut. None of these will be water tight lockers even though it would be an easy enough conversion if we find that necessary in the future. Only the new chain locker lid and the lid over the water tank will have barrel bolts to secure them. The other lockers will probably just have finger holes for lifting them.9704

There will be a filler piece that will go over the head that will set in the v-berth just forward of the main bulkhead. Also, you can notice the strips glassed in for the ash ceiling strips we intend to apply. We are going to skip the insulation to see if we really notice a need for it. If so, it's an easy change to make next year.9705

[Tony G]

Not a lot of action on this end lately. We are waiting for me to remove the old-new backstay backing block that I put in, oh, about a decade ago. Once that is done we will add a new-new backing block. Being the outboard slot takes up a majority of the center of the transom, we'll move the backstay chain plate off to port a little bit.

Here is a shot of the gas tank shelf with the necessary cleats. The starboard shelf hasn't been dedicated to anything specific as of yet. The bilge pump outputs will pass through the area, but so far, that's it.

[Tony G]

We finally got around to adding the drains for the cubbies in the cockpit coamings. There is one for the winch cubby and one for the turning block cubby. Each braided hose has a supporting structure that was wrapped, along with the hose, in a layer of fiber glass and a layer of matting to protect from being snagged by any of the cockpit locker contents. It was a relatively straight shot from the drains to the locker lid scuppers. I had to really work to get the hose to pass through the hole in the gutter, but we'll add some poly "goop" to add some leak proofing...YEAH RIGHT! I'm sure they'll leak anyway:o

[Tony G]

In an effort to secure a little more storage in the main cabin, we added a couple of small bulkheads to the starboard cockpit locker. We got a space that is 14" x 18" by nearly 30 inches tall. There is still plenty of storage left in that cockpit locker, but now we have a small locker that will give us more "interior" locker space to move stuff around as necessary, if necessary. The upper corner of the interior locker will also house the manual bilge pump.9710

[Tony G]

Who ever would have thought that water tank paint had an expiration? Who would have thought it had been 5 years since I ordered a small kit to coat out the forward tank? Needless to say, I had to swallow hard and order another, new and improved, paint for the water tank. The stuff is amazingly thick! And dries amazingly fast and cures amazingly hard. Which is what one should expect for the price... It was a lot cheaper the first time we ordered it (circa 2010).

So with the painting out of the way we finally got the lid epoxied in place and were able to move on with other jobs in the v-berth. The last tasks to perform on the water tank will be to run the vent and the pick up tube into tank once we get a few other things wrapped up. At least the inspection port and the filler are in place.

[Tony G]

If you have priced teak lately, you know that it is dang near worth its weight in gold. Around here, it's about as hard to find as a gold nugget. So to that extent, I have been re-purposing (?) some of the original furnishings when ever possible. For me it's not the money saved as much as it is bringing as much of her back to the water as possible. So the former hanging locker is now part of a drawer face and a drop-front locker, and there is still plenty left to use. One snag was a finger hole that had to be filled. 9713

I thought I had a pretty good match with the grain initially. However, once I chiseled off the 3/16" that was standing proud of the face, the grain "moved" on me and the match was no where near what I was so proud of at first. But, in the end, the extra finger hole was filled and that was the real job at hand.

[Tony G]

Here you can see the galley coming together. Everything is a compromise. As many times as I tried in the past, and as many different ways I tried, I just could not fit everything I wanted in this hull. So over time, Carol and I hashed out what we thought we'd really need and/or want in the main cabin. We each referenced Calder, Baldwin, Vigor, Shearlock, and the Pardeys to bolster our persuasion over each other. I have to admit, I clung to certain layout concepts and didn't have much of an argument as to why I was "right" other than, "that's the way (so and so) did it." Because indecision was leading to inaction, I let go of some preconceived notions and just "went with it" knowing that any one choice we made would mean there were several others that were removed from the possibilities.

I'm not going to try to argue that the choices we made represent the most logical, or, the safest, or really, anything other than what we decided we wanted. They do, however, represent a starting point for deciding which choices were good, which need tweaking, and which ones were bad choices for us.97159716

We have a port side galley arrangement so hove to on a starboard tack the burner will be down hill from us (mostly). The sink will be farthest aft with a sliding cabinet door for access below it. Then we have three drawers for fun stuff. Next, and roughly centered is the cooker. We have a Taylors 029 that will fit in the gap. Moving forward will be the refer/freezer. The louvered doors provide air circulation more than access to additional storage. I know, it seems silly in some ways, but, I made those $#@! things and I'm going to use them.

There will be some additional storage built into these "lowers" and some additional storage above as well.

[Tony G]

Completely out of step with symmetry and balance, the louvered doors and drop front lockers below them don't flow very well, but, the supporting structure largely determined where the hatches would go. Eh, I'll live with it..9717

Here is a look at the sliding louvered cabinet below the sink.

[Tony G]

Here is a close up of a screw up that we ended up using. It was a test piece when I set up the router for making the louvered doors so many years ago. It just goes to show you, never throw anything away.9720

All of the plywood will be epoxy coated and covered with some lightweight fiberglass to help tie everything together and give it some more structural integrity. There will be some fairing and filling involved, and then everything (less the teak) will get primed and painted white.

The above photo shows where the cabinetry makes a 90 degree turn from the port side galley run and goes under the main companionway where the wet locker will be. Here is the first piece of the wet locker.

[Tony G]

The plan for the starboard side of the main salon will be an extra long setee with storage below and behind. Running all the way from the main bulkhead to the aft most bulkhead under the bridge deck gives a lot of room for lounging. If it all turns out like planned, it will also pull out to make a double sleeper. Fingers crossed.

[Tony G]

I've been giving a lot of thought about how to secure the Engel in its spot. It has ranged from wooden cleats to barrel bolts to some incredibly complex metal banding that hugged the refer and gave us the ability to use several over center latches to draw it tight. Wow! Keep it simple! If simple lashings would hold a Wharram cat together, they certainly should hold a 50 lb. refer in place. We will replace the handles on the Engel with a couple of folding pad eyes that will allow us to run some 1/4" line through the lashing blocks and D rings.
9723

This shot shows just how big the foot print of the MT35 is. You can also see the holes in the main bulkhead that will help the refer "breath". As much space as it eats up, there is still plenty of room behind it for galley storage.

[Tony G]

No pictures tonight. We have been hammering away at the projects, but man, it's takes a long time to make any visible progress. The race is on to finish as much work as possible before the weather gets too cold. It looks like we're on track to get everything but the exterior paint and the standing rigging done before we head south. Looks like we'll have to find a yard in Florida we can work on her before we launch. Any suggestions?

On a different note, I picked up a sheet of 1/2" MDO the other day and was amazed at how much better the quality was compared to the "marine" plywood we have been buying lately. Locally it sells for the same price but is a much superior product. Now if it would only make the quality of my work better.

[mbd]

Tony, thanks for the updates. It's great to see you back at it AND talking of heading South! (About to be really really jealous very soon!)

You should look up the yard where Frank finished off Revival. Maybe some of his mojo is still down there waiting to help send another Ariel out cruising... :cool:

[Tony G]

I've tried to post updates but post submissions keep giving me the "you are not logged in" message even though I'm showing up on the top of the page. Let's see if four's a charm..

We have been working on the project list at nights slowly but relatively steady. Life has been getting in the way - I'm not entirely comfortable with the statement for some reason.. One week ago today we put in our notice of resignation and agreed to stay on for four weeks to help them transition our positions. That is a turning point! I've never been without a job in my adult life. We dropped the sails off at Sail Crafters to get a second reef point added to the main and a UV cover put on the headsail. We added four partitions to the bilge to section it off into 3 storage areas and to isolate the electric bilge pumps and the strum box for the manual pump. That allowed us to get the new cabin sole glued down. I really wanted a masterpiece like Aussie Geoff's but will settle for paint and non-skid. Maybe I'll get the Oriental rug I've always wanted. I started working on the starboard settee with its integrated battery box and then later read an article about battery orientation on a boat and how it affects battery health and life.* So I spent the next night cutting out my handiwork and trying to come up with plan B. On the up side, we did get a heck of a deal from a coworker on a small portable generator. That allowed us to drop our battery bank from four T-105s down to just two. We can carry the generator and 75 pounds of gas for the same weight as the two additional batteries. I'm ok with that being out only source of power is two 55 watt solar panels. If this post works I'll be motivated to try posting again.. fingers crossed.

* http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation

[Commander227]

Wow Tony! You're jumping in with both feet. Love to see updated pics and hear the plan. If you come to the cities to pick up your sails or anything I'd love to buy you dinner, or at least a beer. The Princess's winter home is just a block or two from SailCrafters.

[ebb]

About this not getting in business... from a computer challenged stooge. There was a time
when it happened to me fairly regularly, like maybe 2 - 3 times a year. I would each time
get a holt of Bill, and he would generate a new passcode for me, one of those up/down
case number jobs. Can't post if not a member.

I now have to name and passcode every time I open this site. I do it with the last crazy
code Bill emailed years ago, and because I must sign in every day, I've memorized it.
It seems to be part of every day's start up of the computer. I understand the ritual is
necessary to discourage hackers. So I do it.
I'm locked out until I go up to the little window on this page, type in my 'name'...move the
cursor over to the code bar and type in the scramble code.
Do get a welcome each time so it's worth it!:D


Tony, I spent. off and on, a huge amount of time trying to figure out how to incorporate
the hull slanted sides into the cabin sole. If we try to put in "even" strips of teak and holly,
like we see in Geoff's cabin, it's not possible, is it? Not possible without some crazy build-up
on top of the original sole to bring it up even. The Aussies grow some strange wood down
there, so we don't even know what a carpenter is capable of doing! I don't like to see bilge
paint there, next to the wood -- see it in nearly every photo of a small sailboat. Even the
dolled up ones. Did try full sized doorskin models... couldn't find how they did it without
extensive filling or creating areas for rot to happen.

BUT EBB FOUND THE ANSWER ! ....Might be too bassboat for you...
Teak and holly carpet.
No longer have a symmetrical floor plan. The carpet people require full size patterns.*
Expensive, as usual, but not crazy. So, have a complete rug for the sole and it's bloody
wings. Had another piece made for under the 'new' cabin table (covers the hull insulation).
And a piece for what's left of the V-berth area, in front of the 'disguised' head, on the step
up. *They supplied a common plastic pattern-making material. But I opted for stiff white
cardboard, to mime the thickness and lay of the carpet, because it wanted it to fit tight.
Press fit. Help keep it in place on dark and stormy nights.

In place, the carpet softens the bilge/sole transition, it disappears. The very obvious stripes
stay all lined up and it looks SO-O good! Looking from the c'way forward, the stripes
diminish in perspective, very satisfactory!!** Many plusses... and soft under barefoot to boot.
Can't remember the carpet material, but it must have passed some stringent rules I have.
EG: Sand and water HAS to fall out of the material. **Showing how crazy I really am, the
carpet maker and I had to exchange pattern tubes, to make sure the cabin teak pattern
lined up perfectly with the piece in the V-berth. And it does.:cool:

The carpets obviously can be removed when necessary. And obviously can be stored away
when not appropriate. They are heavily backed with a non-skid plastic/rubber. Haven't put
them in yet. But they definitely are uber marine. Sewn bound on all edges (had my choice
of sunbrella-type fabric.). They follow every in and out of my patterns. Also had a 'leftover'
made up as a topper at the ladder bottom to take the brunt of constant wear.

It's also a very pleasant dark beige/tan imitation of teak color, with narrow white stripes.
The 'teak' has a 'grain' if you look for it. I think I fell for the clever humor, and got excellent
craftsmanship as a bonus. Really beautifully made. Probably too much dollar.... but I have
them now, and the $$$ pain has almost drifted away. My kind of imitation teak!!!

[mbd]

So many words, yet soooo few pictures... ;)

You haven't changed your password or anything lately have you Tony? Perhaps your browser is rembering the wrong password when you open up the Ariel forum?

[Tony G]

So many words, yet soooo few pictures... ;)

You haven't changed your password or anything lately have you Tony? Perhaps your browser is rembering the wrong password when you open up the Ariel forum?
Yeah, more pictures is always the answer.
No changes here. I always have to log in, and then it thanks me and prepares me for a redirect. Then I start blathering about some idea or something else, hit the post button and then I get BLOCKED! After a couple of re-tries I just give up..

[Tony G]

Just an update, we pulled her down to Fort Pierce, FL and set up shop in the Riverside Marina. Quite a bit different working in a boatyard with sketchy power and the direct input from Mother Nature. Meeting some great people here and making some progress every day. The big thing is we're here. Hope to post updated pictures soon.

[mbd]

That is fantastic news Tony!!! I'm so happy for you guys. Soon you'll be sharing cocktail hour with the likes of Frank and Craig...

[ebb]

Soon to be picked...

or is it

PLUNKED ! ! !:D

[Commander227]

So exited for you Tony! We just dedicated our sunset toast to you here.
please keep us posted!

[Tony G]

I told Frank two weeks ago that I would make this my goal for the week... Well, I've been told that everything takes longer than expected once you're in a boatyard.

We finally glassed the sole where the head will sit and after a couple of days of curing epoxy the area got sanded smooth and several coats of enamel were applied.

[Tony G]

Hmm. Not sure why that pic rotated itself somewhere between the documents and posted message. Anyway, Nature's Head supplies a flexible hose for venting the unit out of the cabin. It wasn't long enough for our plans so we ran the flexi hose through the space above our forward water tank where it then connects to a 1 1/4" rigid PVC pipe that travels through the port chain locker, and then, goes into the OEM chain locker where it follows the hull up a ways before it hooks back down. That is where we put the bug screen to keep the critters from crawling backwards toward the head and finding their way into the cabin. The OEM chain locker has a hatch that locks in place and has a thick foam gasket to seal it off. We're waiting for the clear Douglas Fir to get re-sawn to finish off the hatch and v-berth ceiling.

[Tony G]

Maybe someone with more know how can fix these posts for me...

The galley is tight on room. One thing I was worried about was the heat radiating off the stove and peeling the varnish off the fiddle rails. I just couldn't squeeze anymore room out of the layout so we cobbled together some shielding. There is a machine shop in town here that had some pieces of stainless in their "drop" bin that worked out great. It was a challenge to cut, bend, drill, and file, but it worked fantastic. We had been previously cooking in the cockpit and I was always checking the temp of the stove's side walls and gimbal posts and they were HOT! So when got everything in place and fired up we were tickled pink to feel virtually no heat on the fiddle rails. Whew!

[frank durant]

That's great!!!

One step closer to "splash"

Stay at it.....it will all come together

[Tony G]

98069807

We added a shield that wraps the cook top. Taylors have a couple of wing nuts that allow you to drop, or remove, the front rail of their pot holder rail. That worked out to be a great mounting spot for this extra heat shield.

What the heck, here's the gimbal lock too.

9808

[frank durant]

That looks awesome!!

[Tony G]

The battery box was all laid out and tabbed in, and then I read an article about battery orientation in sailboats and heeling and exposed plates... So we had to redo it in order to rotate the batteries 90 degrees. That resulted in the setee having to be taller which really isn't going to be all that bad.

So here's the run down. They are mounted in the starboard setee across from the stove. Being they are in the main cabin the top will have a gasket sealing it off from the living quarters. The cables will be fed to the monitor, charger, and panel through the PVC vent tube on it's way to the cockpit locker. The top screws down using 1/4" by 3 inch stainless screws and T-nuts. The reinforcing on the underside of the top also holds down the batteries so they can't move around. Each battery sits in its own box. I can lower the batteries into the compartment no problem, but, the boxes have to be dropped through a "key way" and then slid over to their proper resting place between wooden cleats. It's still a work in progress as we have as many plates in the air as I can manage at one time.

Now let's see how many of these pics are kitty whampus...

[Tony G]

And here's the lid photos.

[Tony G]

That's it from the Riverside Marina for now. Currently waiting on epoxy to set up enough to add a filet around the mounting plate for the galley seacock. Will be tackling the same job for the cockpit scuppers tomorrow (hopefully) and talking with the chief in the fab shop about a welded aluminum bimini top and solar panel trackers combination. We'll see what they come up with for a price. It might be better to pay for it with out of the cruising money versus trying to do it our self and burning up time.

Here's to living the dream!

[frank durant]

Less frustrating too :-)

PS....dreams DO come true!!!

[Tony G]

Thanks for the kind words, Frank. And the inspiration, I might add. Your cruise along with Craig, Rose and Peter dog carried me for years through the hard times.

[Commander227]

Tony, T-O-N-Y, Tony!!!

[mbd]

PS....dreams DO come true!!! ...with LOTS of hard work!


Tony, T-O-N-Y, Tony!!!
+99!!!

[frank durant]

OK....it's been a full 'boat yard work week'.....

WUZZHAPPININ?????

[Tony G]

You know, the usual. Sanding, filling, sanding. It was 104 degrees in the cabin the other day. That made just about anything difficult, except sweating! If we can keep the rain away this week we hope to get some priming done. Hope to have a progress report later this week.

[frank durant]

Yes.....I know that feeling. While working on Revival at Indiantown I found it next to impossible to work in the heat of the afternoons! So...I worked mornings, took the afternoon off and worked evenings. Got more done with less frustration.

Good luck

Keep the faith :)

[frank durant]

Pics......we NEED pics!!! :)

[Tony G]

Ok, I'll try to get to the office tomorrow so we can update this thread with some pictures. We got the first coat of paint on the top sides today and it was atrocious. Hopefully it will all sand out tomorrow morning and we can get the final coat on and then start on the cabin top and decks. We'll have to take some "in progress" photos for the real feel. ; )

[frank durant]

Spraying or "roll n tip" ?

[Tony G]

It turned out to be more on the order of roll, drag, and smear. Carol rolled and I handled the rest on my own... Tomorrow is a new day. We'll fix her make up and pick up where we left off today. It looks like we have a couple days before the rain returns.

[Westgate]

Tony,
Very nice to see that you are making such great progress. I really admire your courage and craftsmanship. Look luck with the final push!
I painted a small skiff in my backyard last July. It was my first time painting a boat. It was well over 100 degrees everyday which presented a few obstacles to say the least. Here are few hard learned lessons. FYI I used Prefection which in the end gave very good results.
I am sure most of this has been said before….
1) Paint in the early AM. I did all my prep the day before and then in the AM would just solvent wash and tack off before putting down a coat. I would let this dry thru the heat of the day and then sand it out and clean it up in the evening.
2) Work in small sections and try, at all costs, to maintain a wet edge. This was the hardest thing to figure out bc the paint was drying so fast. You need to tip the edge of the previous section as you tip the one you just did to blend them so if you wait too long it will be too dry and will smear.
3) Over thin the paint. I used 1.5 times the recommended amount.
4) You can use the cheap foam rollers that are available at HD. No need to buy expensive ones and in fact I found the cheapos worked better! Also I used a foam brush to tip which was far superior to a conventional brush. The latter left huge ridges in the paint bc it dried before it could flow out. The foam ones minimized this big time!
5) I sanded between coats to try and remove ridges and runs. The first two coats I pretty much sanded off completely bc I was still learning. I think I put on 5 coats before I felt it looked good. Mine you it was a dark colour which shows every flaw!
6) If you get behind with tipping and you find the paint is drying too fast don’t try and rework it just keep going. You can solve the problems with the next coat or rather with the next sanding!
7) Avoid rain...rain is bad....very bad....did I mention that rain is bad......good luck!

[Tony G]

We finally got the primer under control. It took a day of travelling around the area to get a shade cloth which we rigged up over the boat. The next day it was amazingly cooler on deck and in the cabin. The primer was high-build and naturally thicker than some of the other stuff we have used in the past. It hid some "whoobees" which was fine by me, but again, my finish standards are taking a back seat to the desires to get if safe, sealed, and sailing.

Here's what the new shop looks like.
9832

Not what I was used to back in MN! Oh well, I never have to sweep the shop floor :D.

[Tony G]

One thing on the list that has been dragging out far too long is the main companion way. I never really had a solid plan for how it was going to be finished off. I just knew I wasn't a big fan of the hinged doors she had when we bought her. I wanted simple and easy but there wasn't a straight path there because of a number of things going on with the hatch; like the drain gutters coming aft, the positioning of the slide tracks, the S-shaped curve in the aft end of the cabin top.

To get down here all we did was cut a couple of dados in the edge of 2x4s and screw a chunk to either side of the companion way. I called it the Jethro Bodeen look..
9833

Finally after visiting as many boats as I could and trying to adhere to the KISS principle, I cobbled together some pieces of plywood, made some compromises, and glued them in place.
9834

After we got things primed and one coat of paint on the cabin top, we made a couple of simple drop board guides out of some of the teak we brought with us. Once the painting is done and we attach them with sealant, we'll add plugs for the screw holes and varnish them.
9835

We scored some 1/2" acrylic from our neighbor's garbage pile that was crazed something awful on one side but looked pretty good on the other. It will serve the purpose well for the time being.
9836

We have some new 1/2" smoked acrylic for the slider, but that will have to wait until after the last coat of paint. For now, the plastic wrapped plywood will do...

[mbd]

Thanks for the update Tony. Love the new signature. :)

[ebb]

Looking around corners, you got some beautiful work there, Tony!

That gray 'primer' stealth topsides full shot has a real modern look to it. Like it!

(ebb's right behind ya, finally getting littlegull's deck & cockpit painted...

Never, never never too late!!!) Happy for you.:D

[frank durant]

Nice to see things coming together.

Now....that was a few weeks back...

Updates AND pictures please ;)

[Tony G]

Hey, Frank
No pictures tonight, I'm sorry to report. We had to take a couple of days away from the boat yard (aka dirt yard) for our sanity. It's so easy to forget that we are doing this for the experience and fun when we are continually focused on getting things done. recently we got the bronze straps on our rudder, sea cocks and through hulls installed and sealed, rub rails shaped and primed, water tank plumbed (and filled with DRINKABLE water), new burners installed in the Taylors, dinghy outboard running, new prop on, companion way slider installed, cleaned the generator and got it running again (Carol's the mechanic in this family), got the backstay polished to a mirror-like shine, boot stripe painted, and started on the mast and boom. We make a pact that at least once a week we would go to the beach so we wouldn't loose track of what we are here for, and now we try to go there every afternoon to swim the troubles away and shower in less-stinky water. Add a couple of odd jobs on other boats and lending a hand where we can and the weeks just seem to fly by. We'll be posting pictures of "stuff" soon and hopefully we'll have videos coming in the (relatively) near future.
thanks for asking and..
Peace, Love, and Coconuts!

[frank durant]

Hey, Frank
No pictures tonight, I'm sorry to report. ../.. We'll be posting pictures of "stuff" soon and hopefully we'll have videos coming in the (relatively) near future.
thanks for asking and..
Peace, Love, and Coconuts!

Tony Tony Tony...

Inquiring minds want to know....and see pictures!!! :)

[Commander227]

Feed my fantasies. I cannot live vicariously thru you without picture nor text.

[Tony G]

Although we are a long way from where we were hoping to be by this time, at least we are on the water. That alone is a big improvement over the back corner of the boatyard where the bugs and heat were inescapable. We stepped the mast, but, we will have to do a little more work on "sorting out" the standing rigging due to adding the roller furler.

[Tony G]

We had a bunch of ash strips for the overhead and ceiling in the v-berth when we left MN but I knew we didn't have enough to finish so I thought we'd just pick some up in FL. Turns out you can't find ash that easily BUT they had douglas fir in abundance! (virtually impossible to find back home) So we built a table saw and ripped down some 8 foot 2 X 6s and used that instead. The Douglas fir is what I would have chosen in the first place so sweeto-burrito! To top it off, all of the ash strips we brought were highly sought after by another boater who is using them to build harps. win-win.

[frank durant]

S P L A SH !!!!!!

CONGRATS CONGRATS and CONGRATS !!!

Looking extremely good in the water!!!

The cielings look awesome as well!!
Keep the pics and updates coming.
Happy for both of you!!!

[ebb]

All kinds of nice touches evident.

Be great when she's all together

Can't wait to see what you're going to do with a dodger!

Or with a bone in'erteeth:D

[frank durant]

No kidding Ebb

Spray hood
Dodger curb
Combing
OB access
Rub rail
Dorado vents
New hatch
And thats at a quick glance...
Looks awesome!!!

[Commander227]

Awesome Tony! How many years since she's been in the water?
Looks great, good luck with the final push. You just have the fun stuff left.

[mbd]

S-W-E-E-T!!! And a hearty congrats to you guys Tony. Love the coamings and the open v-berth arrangement, etc. etc. etc. Two thumbs way up!!

[Tony G]

Thank you, captains. It has been over 16 years since she was last floating in water. And though it doesn't make any difference, it was fresh water back then. Some of the issues we have to work out yet include tracking down a leak in the main cabin on the port side. I think that one came about when I drilled the scupper drains for the seahood so some exploratory surgery will be in order. In "hind site" (former name of 113 before Dream Weaver) I should have added them during construction of the hood. Oh Well. The other major aggravation is our mast is canted forward probably 5+ degrees and that has put a lot of stress on the cabin top in the v-berth and some deflection became noticeable forward of the mast step. A longer toggle is in order for the lower forward stay and hopefully that issue will be put to rest. Another "hind site" is the lack of tolerance in the opening for the forward hatch. It appears the expansion coefficient of aluminum and wood are far from each other on a scale. The hatch fit "nice and snug" in the coaming, and once in the Florida sun it began to exert its force against the wood and glass and won the fight. Once we resolve the other issues, finish mounting all the other deck hardware, get the electrical installed, and finish off the starboard setee, I may peel the forward hatch off and route a larger opening to relieve the stress. I dunno.

We have spent the last three weeks in MN visiting our family and friends while we repainted our O'day 22 and her trailer to sell off for a little more cruising funds. Even though we have been in a heat advisory here, it is going to be hard to acclimate back to FL summer but we really want to get "out there" and start life away from the yard and dock.

We truly appreciate all of your support and comments, and, if you have any suggestions speak freely.

[Tony G]

...just what it says. Here we are waiting for the travel lift.

[ebb]

:cool:very::D many :D more :D happy ;) years :D ahead :cool:

[c_amos]

Wow Tony, congratulations! She looks beautiful!

[mbd]

Love to topsides color! Reminds me of a former Jimmy Buffet sailboat that was for sale a few years back...

[Bisquit]

Beautiful! Time to enjoy the fruits of your labor!

[Tony G]

Just got settled back in the Riverside boat yard in a spot suitable for working on Scout. When Mathew came to town we came back down here to get hauled out onto the trailer so we could move to a more sheltered spot. Once on the trailer we thought, "well, may as well just finish up a couple of things while we're here." The plus is we actually have internet on board! Yay! The bad thing is we actually have internet on board... Productivity plummeted once we got on the water, and installed an A/C unit and I fear internet access may hinder progress as well if I don't resist.

I'll start being more diligent with the posts now that we've invited the web into our home ;)

[frank durant]

OK....
Enough.....
Over a year now!!
We need updates!
How are you?
Wuzzhappinin?