Ariel #97 [Archive] - Pearson Ariel Association Forums

eric (deceased)

03-31-2006, 09:54 PM

:eek: go to any boatyard that has boats on the deck and you will see water coming out of those same congruent places no matter what size the hull.that area of the hull is subject to all the turning forces---that the boat has experienced from the beginning of its creation.I had my ariel on the deck for as much as 6 months at a time---I was "chased out of the water"{read my full unabridged newsletter}water dripped out contiuosly.you need to sandblast the entire suface below the waterline including the rudder.{at least use a soft pad rotary sander}eventually I removed the rudder shoe and the hinges from the hull---- I drilled out the wrist pins---- water flowed freely from these places-----I gather these places are also where the water came in-----after several months on land I used a grinder to open up some surface crazing-{this crazing radiated out from the rudder shoe --it was more than just on the surface it went too deep for comfort}----I tried to dry the areas up with acetone- I even used a hole saw on a drill to bore a hole in the floor of the bilge where the lead pigs were---in an effort to allow the water to escape this encapsulated area of the hull--and it was closed with seagoing epoxy----then I filled the areas on the outside of the hull with polyester glass and resin----then replaced the wrist pins with brass thru-bolts and used sea-going epoxy to re-bed these under water fittings.dont you know---after all of this----drip by drip-----water still found its way out. {thats why I used the under water epoxy}ya jus' cant win.perhaps the best way to dry out a hull is to leave it in the desert for the summer---then seal it with epoxy.also---a note to all---I am very seriously considering another ariel as my next boat---I have a considerable amount of experience with these boats and I feel that I am somewhat capable of single handling these boats---well ya kno' theres some islands that are some miles off the mexican coast that I spent some time sailing to--around--and back.... from california....nothing too terribly extensive---you will all know well beforehand if and when this occurs

ebb

04-04-2006, 09:38 AM

A plank rudder should not be encapsuated
Mahogany is a stable wood and doesn't shrink or swell all that much under water - or in and out of the water viz wintering on the hard. When making a new one, befor assembly it would by good to seal all sides with penetrating epoxy.

A plywood (using maranti eg) composite rudder would benefit by being covered with fabric and epoxy.

'Search' may be helpful in locating on this site what others have done about water in the hull. I believe the Manual covers it too. You have to decide how much you want to do for the boat.
Sandblasting is pretty radical. Sanding/grinding rather tedious. It depends where you have the boat, if in a yard you may be severly limited by what you can do. Any blasting/grinding/sanding requires you to tent the boat.
338 had her bottom removed down to the gel coat with very little fuss considering it was my first time with StripAway. May have the name wrong. It is a fairly safe paint on stripper goop that you apply VERY thick and cover with a plastic/paper scrim (part of kit) and let it sit for a day. It works. After you get the bottom down to the white gel coat you then can access what to do. At least you can then barriorcoat and put on a fresh new antifoul bottom.

A couple of owners had to rebuild the bottom corner of the keel where the rudder shoe is mounted.

tha3rdman

04-04-2006, 10:59 AM

I had a chance to speak with the previous owner, he and I didnt get to chat long I had to get to class. BUt apparently he and his brother have owned her for the last 16 years, the Atomic four that is in her is not the original belive it or not they picked it up in the 80's for 250 dollars, and rebuilt it in 1993. There were a few spots on in the deck they had "repaired" by removing some of the deck and slathering the rotten wood with epoxy ( :confused: ) oh well guess that means when I get to do it the right way i'll have to grind all that stuff away.

( I post this more or less for future owners of #97, a history of sorts)

tha3rdman

04-09-2006, 03:31 PM

This is the shelf in the V-Berth, this doesnt look "factory" the entire forward cabin is laid-up in this finer weave. Any thoughts why?

tha3rdman

04-09-2006, 03:35 PM

Another addition, seems to be Oak, but why they would paint it ??? Stain and varnish. The Strong Back seems to be ?original? and teak.

tha3rdman

04-09-2006, 03:37 PM

The mess! Jody has taken on the task of stripping, sanding and fairing the V berth.

Bill

04-09-2006, 03:41 PM

Another addition, seems to be Oak, but why they would paint it ??? Stain and varnish. The Strong Back seems to be ?original? and teak.

See strongback removed from a boat in Ebb's photo gallery. Original strongbacks are NOT teak. It and the supports are oak, and most were painted . . . ;)

ebb

04-09-2006, 07:17 PM

Gee, doesn't look half bad at all, the forepeak! Wait til you get to be 40 and we'll see what you look like!
The compression bulkhead looks pretty good too. Put a rafter square to the doorway see what out of square you got. Look for rot in the beam. Ice pick or sharp pointed knife up top. If this beam and the braces have not been addressed by a former owner, you really should check this area out. (ebb's a bad example of what to do to fix a sagging cabin top under the mast.) The Manual has the tried and true method. And there seem to be a dozen others. But if the rigging wasn't holding its tune or set, you can't really sail the boat with any confidence. imho It ranks with the rudder in importance.
See if the cabin top around the mast seems dished out or flattened. :eek:

What Bill is refering to, maybe, is that, specifically, when 338's white oak compression beam came out there wasn't a bit of rot anywhere on it. There was some deterioration of the plywood where the chainplates are. 338 had a sagging doorway, the door wouldn't close. The trim was bulging.
When I unscrewed the round maststep (2 giant bronze screws that went thru the mast step, thru the deck and into the top of the beam) - when I removed them the cabin top popped up and became round again! (Man, that fiberglass has SOME memory to it!) It has been my opinion that after 40 year of being stepped on and pressed on by the mast and rigging the inside bulkhead structure merely settled slowly over many seasons, even shrank a little.
There was some balsa core rot under the mast where the wire holes let in mast condensation and water, but it wasn't really significant. 338 definitely had a flattened cabin top, though. :D
By the by, how are your decks? Enjoy your posts!

tha3rdman

04-10-2006, 04:36 AM

Decks?? You really ment Trampolines. They arent weak enough to fall through yet but you can tell the sanchions for the life lines has let water into the balsa and has it rotted enough that thats a project either this season or next.

So why the finer fiberglass up front, was this typical or someone tring to do something?

eric (deceased)

04-10-2006, 05:44 AM

I never heard the term "strongback" until I joined this forum.I think the more proper term is"arch step" and its associated 4 compression posts.{2 vertical and 2 diagonal}.Also---if 338 was tony benado's boat---I distinctly remember seeing 2 extra heavy vertical compression posts{they appeared to be teak} added to the existing ones---with the words"sailing for peace" engraved into them.

ebb

04-10-2006, 08:01 AM

g'mornin eric,
Must have been a different one. My 338 (known as Sun Quest when I bought her) had no teak anywhere on her. Sailing for Peace, huh? :D

eric (deceased)

04-11-2006, 03:19 AM

jus' chekt the search mode.I remember those ventura daize well. they were magik---an'sumwer tragik. :eek: I cant believe I am so close now----in nevada---I gotzta' go bakn' givum' hell.hoo'noaze maybe'll fine' myole' bote'n' gitterbak.OH--AND--HEY!!!! I MYSELF NEVER GOT THE FULL UNABRIDGED ACCOUNT OF THE NEWSLETTER.DID ANY ONE ELSE READ IT????

tha3rdman

04-19-2006, 05:43 PM

I noticed in the floor of the cockpit was a Bung for the gear box shifter, is this original, seems like a bad place to have a hole while underway.

tha3rdman

04-23-2006, 11:40 AM

The old Cushions were pretty ratty, we decided that some new Vinyl would look nice and with a younger crew member (her dad isn't so neat either) that clean up would be easier. Here's what I did all weekend. . .

tha3rdman

04-23-2006, 11:40 AM

and this . .

tha3rdman

04-23-2006, 11:41 AM

Some inprocess shots . .

tha3rdman

05-06-2006, 06:16 PM

Had her out today, and noticed a few things, most notably if the rudder feels rubbery, like theres a lot of twist in the shaft or something, any thoughts?

The other isn't an observation more of a inquarry, how much will she heel will the ariel take, before you have trouble? Today we had the decks in the water but didnt have the kahoonas to keep it there for long, especially with the big motor yachts making waves.

frank durant

05-07-2006, 05:37 PM

I am sure Bill or other ' race' oriented members could answer this better than I but I suspect if your decks are awash you are also having severe weather helm and you'd be fighting the tiller.At the 'rail in' point ,I'd say you are already overcanvassed.It may feel fast but you are loosing speed do to the rudder 'scrub' etc.Throw a reef in the main...reduce headsail to a jib , or do what it takes to 'balance the boat' ! I found Revival would 'sail herself to weather' in windy conditions with proper sail balance. 0..yes 0 weather helm !! It don't look or 'feel' as fast but IS faster and way easier on both the rig and your spouse !!

tha3rdman

05-08-2006, 05:09 AM

Thank you Frank, good advise, I didn't have the Jib in the boat when we went out, but it there now for "next time" I have been tring to sell revival to anyone i bump into, or any one that complements the ariel design.

tha3rdman

05-09-2006, 04:34 PM

She enjoys it . . . looks good at the tiller too.

tha3rdman

05-09-2006, 04:36 PM

Me and my Deck ape. This past Sat she got stuck up on the fore deck when the head came across the bow . . . ooops.

tha3rdman

05-09-2006, 04:38 PM

And the Queen . . . She initaited the Poopdeck last sat . . .

frank durant

05-17-2006, 04:58 PM

Lookin good ,do you have pics of below with the new cushions ??? Years ago I sailed a lot with my dashhound....he simply would NOT go on the boat.Crossed lake huron..14hrs !! and he wouldn't !! Your life will be easier if she does.Have fun

mbd

05-17-2006, 05:35 PM

I wonder if you could "litter train" the pooches. Let them have their own porta potty as it were. I stopped bringing mine along a few years ago after he got sea sick - he's glad. Now he's too old to care.

Mike Goodwin

05-17-2006, 06:39 PM

My Portugese water dog uses a sq yd of indoor outdoor carpet.

frank durant

05-18-2006, 01:26 PM

My brother/sister in law sail with their portugese water dog.....thats one big lap dog on a small boat !! They are neat dogs !

Mike Goodwin

05-18-2006, 06:29 PM

Keeping her on/in the boat is the problem , wants to swim alongside !

tha3rdman

05-23-2006, 05:52 PM

Inside shot still cluttered from the work up on deck.

tha3rdman

05-23-2006, 05:54 PM

How not to repair a sanchion.

tha3rdman

05-23-2006, 05:55 PM

Rebedding all the deck hardware, starting with the bow.

tha3rdman

05-23-2006, 05:56 PM

Miscleanous pictures of the rebedding and some patch work.

mbd

05-25-2006, 01:50 PM

#46 above - Ouch!! That's more than just a "rebed" job now. Yikes. I was wavering between doing the same thing and opted to just get it over with. The kids are just getting older and easier to sail with anyways. Heck, maybe they'll have learned to swim by the time I'm done. :)

What worries me now, is that every time I remove something, I see two more things that need to be "fixed".

Bill

05-25-2006, 02:51 PM

What worries me now, is that every time I remove something, I see two more things that need to be "fixed".

Ah yes, the truth will out . . . ;)

tha3rdman

05-26-2006, 10:52 AM

Well the sanchions are all back on everything has been under cut (allen wrenched out the core) and peanut butter bedded and sealed with Life caulk (until that tube found it's way out of the gun and into the river) then switched over to 3M 4000 UV.

One thing I noticed it about mid way back between the winches and forward part of the coming there stops the core. Is that standard?

The small original track isnt going back on privious owner (not that they know much, tried to tell me the winches on her were self tailing) claims to never have used the small track.

Will go with the patchwork look until winter when well see about some awlgrip.

Gas tank is also rehung, with 4 1/2 inch stainless straps, to keep the Enviromentalists off my stern, had a issue with the back straps snapping and gas dripping out the breather (OOPS) Privious owner used steel straps and a plastic tube (to keep the strap from chafin) the tube held water and rotted the steel.

BUT this weekend we sail, a 4 day trip in the chesapeake, from HDG to the ineer harbor of Baltimore, retrace the steps of the long gone schooners.

bill@ariel231

05-26-2006, 01:55 PM

midway between the front of the cockpit & the winches...That's where the core ends on A231.

I removed the inboard tracks almost 8 years back. I'm thinking of putting the inboard tracks in place to handle a storm jib....

have a great sail this weekend.

tha3rdman

05-30-2006, 03:15 PM

After reading the heavy weather thread I realize my fears were irrational, we went to Baltimore and with the tugs fly in and out od the harbor the water had some rough wake, turning into the wake (2.5 feet at times) yeilded some awesome bow splash . . well awesome for me made the rest of the trip home uneventful, we motored out of the harbor due to dead wind here's a lilt clip, didnt get any big wake just some little stuff.

For a first boat, and trip was an adventure.

Clip will have to wait it's 2.5 meg. heres some pictures in lieu.

tha3rdman

05-30-2006, 03:18 PM

I'm not the best at docking, having only done it about 6 times and when the dock master told me the slip was here i about called another marina, I had to navigate a narrow passage between a large cuise ship at the fuel dock, and the water taxi's, as well as fit in a slip that left me about 1 foot and a half clearence total, the dock hand as well as my two friends and wife made it an uneventfull docking, they didnt have to deflect me much.

tha3rdman

05-30-2006, 03:19 PM

Leaving monday in dead air, figured a stop at the fuel dock was appropriate.

tha3rdman

06-03-2006, 05:24 PM

I forgot, that the bay ate my wifes wedding rings the saturday before memorial day, and today the bay got a hold of my brand new whisker pole.

Running Tally:
- 7/8 Tube of Life Calk
- Wedding band
- Engagement ring
- Sapphire Wrap for the Engagement ring
- Brand new adj. Whisker pole

commanderpete

06-06-2006, 05:45 AM

Damn! That's gonna get expensive pretty soon.

The sea gods are angry. Pour some rum over the side.

tha3rdman

06-21-2006, 05:41 AM

Bucking tradition and in need of some new sails (something with a reef in the main) I had seen a Westsail with burgandy sails, and wondered if any had seen an ariel/commander with anything other then white sails, and how it looked.

I borrowed #76's picture just to paint the sail for a shoddy graphical representation.

Opinions?

commanderpete

06-21-2006, 12:44 PM

I've toyed with the idea of getting traditional looking sails made of dacron.

North makes a line of cloth call "Oceanus"

http://na.northsails.com/North_Cloth/oceanus_cloth.html

Bainbridge makes a cloth called "classic cream." They probably have a tanbark cloth too.

I'm sure there's a downside to the fabric. At the very least it will cost more, and most sailmakers won't be interested in doing the job

The egyptian cotton look would be sweet

frank durant

06-21-2006, 01:21 PM

I had the pleasure of switching boats for a morning with another sailor on our last cruise. He had the Egyptcian cotton look sails and I was very impressed. Looked very classic and very easy on the eyes as apposed to white.The up-charge is about the same as 'tan bark' red , but I now prefer that look better....so much so that a new set of sails I had on order in tan bark has now been switched to Egyptcian cotton.Just my 2cents.

tha3rdman

06-23-2006, 12:07 PM

a Cape Dory with tan bark

tha3rdman

06-29-2006, 12:18 PM

I put out a few feelers to see the price difference, just a Geewiz thing.

First one back with a quote (dont kill me it's just a quote) is from "Far East Sails" (really far east Hong kong).

"Hi Paul,

We can offer you a wholesale discount of 35 percent off the below retail
price. You can deduct that amount from our quotation. If you order 2 sails
discount is 40 percent. "

So take 40% off prist listed below . . ok, I can do that . . .

"Our sails are
> OFFSHORE OCEAN RATED and sail computer designed. The Retail
> price is for sail lofts and other sail resellers.
>
>
> Performance Mainsail Retail USD$984.00
> 5.9oz Challenge Performance Sailcloth (less your discount)
> 2 Reefs
> 4 Standard Battens
> Draft Stripe, Telltails, Triple Stitched
> Sailbag
> P=27' E=11.5'
> Sail Area 162 ft2 - cross cut
>
> Same Sail in Tanbark Color Retail USD$1674.00
> (less your discount) "

. . . Ouch nearly double but 40% off 1700 is 680 (1700-680=1020) not bad if the quality is there . .

"Performance 135 Genoa Retail USD$1188.00
> 5.9oz Challenge Performance Sailcloth (less your discount)
> Hank on
> Draft Stripe, Telltails, Triple Stitched
> Sailbag
> I=31.50 J=11.5' LP=15.53'
> Sail Area 245 ft2 - cross cut
>
> Same Sail in Tanbark Color Retail USD$2022.00
> (less your discount) "

Wholey S*** 2000 for a genoa well (2000*.6=1200) $1200 i guess if you play their game.

commanderpete

06-29-2006, 12:50 PM

Those prices seem pretty good. I just got a quote for white sails from Quantum:

Cross Cut 2+2 Mainsail
P: 27.00 FT E: 11.90 FT
Sail Area: 191.2 FT2
Construction: Computer designed and cut cross cut construction using Challenge
5.93 HMW (100%)
Includes: Handsewn luff and foot hardware, leech cord with a cleat, telltales,
sail ties, sail bag, 2 full, 2 mid Battens
Notes: Commander logo and #200 in black
Base Price: $1,636.00
Options:
Reefs (2) $144.00
Battens (Flat Stock) $122.00
Sub Total: $1,901.00
10.000% Discount: - $190.00
Total Price*: $1,711.00
*

135% Cross-Cut Furling Genoa
I: 31.50 FT J: 9.50 FT LP: 135%
Sail Area: 194.1 FT2
Construction: Computer designed and cut cross cut construction using Challenge
5.93 HMW (100%)
Includes: Appropriate luff attachment, leech cord with a cleat, telltales, sail bag
Notes:
Base Price: $1,121.00
Options:
Acrylic UV Cover (1) $286.00
Sub Total: $1,407.00
10.000% Discount: - $141.00
Total Price*: $1,266.00
* Sales Tax Not Included

I might just let my sails get old and yellow

tha3rdman

07-07-2006, 06:23 PM

Since were talking astetics, and maybe I had seen it on here somewhere what about doing a nice tan "Alumi-Grip" on the mast and boom think that would give the look of spruce?

mrgnstrn

07-10-2006, 04:59 AM

When I bought new sails for Hull #3 (and now in NC), they were about $900 each (approx the same price as the Hong Kong quote up there). I got them from Scott Sails when they were still in Annapolis. They have since moved to Southern VA. I don't know if their prices have changed since.

They also have what seems to be a thriving online business through Ebay.
Here is an example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Sail-Mainsail_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ31281QQihZ002Q QitemZ4632681186
or type in item #4632681186
They also do Jibs and Asyms that way.
- my 2cents -

(no longer owner of #3, but can't figure out how to change the signature...)

tha3rdman

08-03-2006, 09:10 AM

NOt much new lately, just been to hot, and my dad getting married to this dighy broad . . anyhow, with the heat I have been pondering a cooling solution while docked, with the abundance of inexpensive Air conditioners, I figured I would give a little 5k Btu unit a shot.

I really wanted to mount it high and drain the condesade into the sink or cockpit drain. Sadly I needed anouther 1/2-3/4 of an inch to mount is under the Electric box (port side) the duct in the headlinder for the power lines fouled up that. The only other option to mount high was to rip out the fridge, and i'm not ready to make that venture yet, maybe in the winter if the unit does the job. So under the fridge it goes. Still needs some sealing done.

Any ideas on converting it to a water cooled unit?

tha3rdman

08-03-2006, 09:14 AM

From the back, It gets hot but i havent found any more heat then something that has sat in the sun, and though uncomfortable I can hold my hand on indefenatly.

Here aging if it works well, I'll fillet and make the brace more permanet, I will have to ratchet strap it down before, we go out this weekend.

tha3rdman

08-03-2006, 09:18 AM

Another addition is a new depth sounder. The old one varied wildly, it couldn't make up it's mind if we were in 30 feet of water or 3', then it would just give up and show blank screen. (was old from the 80's)

Here's the cup for the in-hull puck. Under the Stbd Bunk, against the bulkhead.

tha3rdman

08-03-2006, 09:19 AM

The garmin box.

In the hangin locker, up out of the way, didnt want to put it under the bunk.

tha3rdman

03-07-2007, 01:51 PM

Well spring break is a week and a half away, All the materials for the deck are in, 3 gallons of epoxy from epoxy products, various thickeners, 12 inch biax tape, vac bag and breather stuff, and the balsa core. Lets hope the weather holds out and gives me a decent week.

mbd

03-07-2007, 02:14 PM

Bonzai! Good luck with the recore, and don't forget to post lots and lots of pictures and pointers!

tha3rdman

03-12-2007, 05:45 PM

It has begun, yesterday something else has been added to my already laundry list of things to do, a glance at the bottom job ahead and I, we rather my wife noticed little bumps, i picked a little at them and they have a brown sap inside of them . . . blisters, I drilled the keel in a few places and was happy to find no water, well close to none, a wee bit a sepage. I also cut into the Stbd decks to give them a chance to air out, and took the PO's name in the utmost vain numerous times, it seams in a previous attempt to harden the deck they cut her open and scooped out the bad stuff, then refilled the void with straight epoxy . . . looks like I get to get real friendly witht the belt sander. I know I know pictures pictures I promise I'll take the camera down tommorrow, but the posting of said pictures will have to wait till i get a replacement desktop computer, but it's comming down to barrier coat of computer.

epiphany

03-12-2007, 07:02 PM

Aiee! Solid "coring"? Yuck. That is one PO that deserves the names and cuss words...

Grinding that will be no fun - can you beg/borrow/steal an pneumatic grinder? With a very coarse grit disc, it'll go way faster than a belt sander (tho' it'll still be messy). Might want to try a paint scraper, tapped with a hammer, to see if you can separate that "core" from the bottom skin. You might get lucky, and they did a slack enough job that there is a weak or improper bond that you can exploit.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that that is the case!

tha3rdman

03-13-2007, 04:38 AM

Thanks for the thought, I have a electric 8" I'll stop and get a pad for it while I'm picking up the 60 grit paper for the wife.

tha3rdman

03-20-2007, 05:25 PM

Well I got the solid core out, and gooped the edges, tommorrow I hope to put the first batch of core inplace.

As a side note, the knees for the chain plates are soft in the middle, like a twinkie of sorts, I'm thinking about externals, and the marina has a set of 6 matching NOS at 58 a piece, heafty stock 1/4" thick, maybe 1.5" wide, 10-12 long. Overkill yes but any places that can get something sufficient cheaper?

bill@ariel231

03-22-2007, 05:31 AM

I'm contemplating using a set of ensign chainplates $21 each: http://www.ensignspars.com/parts

from the description they sound very close to the right size, Might have to re-drill the hole for the clevis pin from its' current 5/16" to 3/8"

I've traded a couple of emails with Zeke Durica at ensign spars.

His ensign chainplates are to use his description, "1"X 1/8" thick X 10" long. They are 5/ 16 hole on the top and 3 3/8"s holes at the bottom up 3/4 inch 2 3/4 and 4 3/4."

I haven't been near the boat yet to compare these dimensions.

mbd

03-22-2007, 05:52 AM

You might check out D&R Marine in MA. I got some ODay parts from them years ago, and if I recall Rudy, the owner's name, also sells Pearson parts...

PS. Those new Ensigns are sweet!

commanderpete

03-22-2007, 06:01 AM

There are pros and cons to external chainplates (like anything else).

But, you won't be saving yourself any work. You still need to glass in some sturdy attachment points for the external chainplates.

Are all 4 knees and both bulkheads bad? If not, I think it would be easier to replace what you have to.

tha3rdman

04-15-2007, 03:06 PM

Well the weather hasn't been coopertive, so here's what I have so far

The Nightmare begins, step one, Grind out the gallon of Epoxy the PO had poured between the skins, (see the piles of snow, empoxy powders) It's a good thing the marina owner wasn't in town this operations was far from dustless.

The other 3 pictures in this post show the ground out epoxy, the Port core, and the dry fit of the Stbd core.

tha3rdman

04-15-2007, 03:08 PM

From left to right:

Piss poor vac, too mank leaks, we ended up "borrowing some lead weights from the marina to press the core into place.

Port removed and ground core, ready for the new stuff.

Picture of the new core bed in place

Picture looking aft of the Port side ready for core

Bow - aft of the work in progress.

tha3rdman

04-15-2007, 03:14 PM

Again Left to Right:

Stbd - the belt sander was a wonderfull tool for a nice leveled and contoured core, very satisfied with the outcome.

Port - By now I'm a belt saning semi pro, and this side is much better then the other both are acceptable, the depressions you can see are where there will be stanchions, later you can see where I removed the core entirely and replaced it with thickened epoxy and left it depressed and will add additional layers of glass.

Next 2 : Looking aft Both sides.

Me filling the gaps, left intentionally, with thickened epoxy, thought process bein if the core would go bad again the gaps fille would be a barrier to keep the intrusion from migrating.

tha3rdman

04-15-2007, 03:16 PM

Port side filled, you can see the stanchon beds here, you can also tell that my wife fit this core the gaps are less and the core fits better, good and bad depends on how you look at it.

Stbd still filling, wife snapping shots.

Next two, the wife is working on the topsides, sand sand sand . . .

Last one, nearly ready for glass, Word to the wise, seal the damn stuff! We laid glass over some of the core that didnt have epoxy sealing it, the sun finally came out and so did the expanded air from the core, now we have to sand all the bubbles out of the glass.

frank durant

04-15-2007, 06:49 PM

Thanks for sharing thoughts and posting pics ...will be a great help to many.Looking good !! Keep the faith ;)

c_amos

04-16-2007, 07:31 AM

You will not reget having done this job right. I can speak as one who has followed an incomplete re-core... it is no fun. You are wise to have replaced the whole thing in one shot.

commanderpete

04-16-2007, 08:41 AM

A monumental effort. Well done.

You should get a promotion to tha2ndman, at least

tha3rdman

04-16-2007, 02:35 PM

Can't be promoted, 2nd would make me part of the conversation . . . The name comes from a job I did in the military, where we we're the third party in a whole host of conversations, third party being the one's not invited, the listeners.

epiphany

04-22-2007, 05:09 AM

Wow, what a ton of work, and nicely done.

If there is TO BE no promotion, then you should at least be listening 3rd party to the popping and fizzing tiny bubbles of a cold brew while feeling "PHEW!!!", after all that... :D

tha3rdman

05-15-2007, 06:00 PM

I've been slacking on my picture posting, but not so much on the picture taking, I'm not going to comment every picture, if you have a question ask away.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050001.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050002.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050003.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050004.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050005.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050006.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050007.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050008.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5050009.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5060010.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5060011.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5060012.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5060013.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5080014.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5080015.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5080016.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5130017.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5130018.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5130019.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5130020.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/P5130021.jpg

Lucky Dawg

05-15-2007, 06:12 PM

Holy Moley! This is the humbling skill set I was talking about. Paul, you and your wife are studs! Can you taste her splash date??

tha3rdman

05-15-2007, 06:16 PM

Splash date . . . depends on the boss, if I can sweet talk him into some paint shop time sooner then later, If not Roll and tipping the topssides and deck doesnt sound like alot of fun. That will be the limiting factor.

Skill set?? this is my first boat.

Tim Mertinooke

05-16-2007, 04:49 AM

Looking good! You won't regret all of this work once she's done, keep it up! It is a big help to see those pictures as I plan my future recore sometime over the next couple years. Those chainplates look great, where did you get them? How much?

tha3rdman

05-16-2007, 05:13 AM

Chain PLates we're NOS (new old stock) Shafer their 1-1/8 series, I paid far less then I imagine the can be bought wholesale ($45 a piece), As you can see from the pictures leaving the whole thing it's overpowering, the various shots at different heights is tring to decide where to have them cut, we decided to have them cut to leave 3 holes, it's looked the best as far as aspect ratio (Height Weight Proportioate) and it didnt distract from the over all appearence. We should have them back this weekend, the fore most will be shuffled back behind the existing knee, to even out the spacing.

mbd

05-16-2007, 05:30 AM

Hats off 3rdman! Well done!

Tim, you might try http://www.onlinemetals.com/ - I haven't used them so I can't make recommendations one way or the other...

tha3rdman

05-30-2007, 04:55 AM

Ahhh the finnikiness of Paint~

I'll take some pictures this evening of the deck, tonite we spray the hull and I have a suprise, the top sides will not be Matterhorn White.

The bad news, the decks have to be resanded and repainted, and if anyone needs some window dressings, we have enough for a glass house or two, and the formation was odd as I have seen before if it was going to sag it did so pretty soon within a few min, these didnt sag out till we got around the boat and looked back over, the only thing I can think of is the cabin top has the graduated radius over the windows, and the paint took a while to sage off the and then snow balled down the sides. But damn it looks nice hopefull the paintfumes don't impair my memmory and I'll get you all some photos late tonite.

(yes we use a respariator, awl grip w/ no mask is a bad idea, even awlgrip with out a pos press face shield isn't right.)

ebb

05-30-2007, 09:46 AM

Online Metals, Good Outfit, pack their product well for shipping.
Small quantities is a very good thing for me/us! You do pay a premium, but where else can you buy one linear foot of 6061 aluminum pipe like I just did? Usually have to buy 20' - or more!

I've been putting together a project in aluminum. They don't seem to have a full range of sizes in 6061, like channel under 3" wide, for instance. So it's still a game for sure. They seem to be reputable, imco.

It's always a crapshoot if you buy salvage, and if you care enuf to have the very best: the 6061 at least is marked as such. And some 316L annealed bar I ordered came die-straight from OnlineMetals which it did NOT from McMasterCarr.

It pays to have a conversation with your order-taker as to exactly what you expect.:)

:cool: By the way, if you need some material (or maybe ANYTHING) that you can't locate, give McmasterCarr a ring. They do special orders, they are an absolutely HUGE HARDWARE SOURCE, The order takers have been consistently friendly and have offered, in the past, to find stuff for me.
M'Carr will have your stuff at your door next day! Never had a B.O. - but they sometimes have to ship from somewhere else in the Country. Onlinemetals takes a day or two longer.

tha3rdman

06-02-2007, 02:31 PM

Here's project "recore" nearing the end . . .

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200001.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200002.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200003.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200004.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200005.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200006.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200007.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200008.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200009.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200010.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5200011.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5230012.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5230013.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5230014.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5230015.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5230019.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5280020.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5280021.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5280022.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5280023.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310040.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5300025.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5300027.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310029.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310030.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310031.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310032.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310034.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310035.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_P5310036.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1027.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1028.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1029.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1030.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1031.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1032.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1033.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1034.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1035.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/tn_IMG_1036.jpg

Lucky Dawg

06-03-2007, 04:05 AM

Paul, I'm very jealous of your beautiful hot-rod red paint job! Someday in the future when Lucky Dawg needs paint, Bonnie Jean may have a red twin. Paint is finnicky as you say. Huge job. Nice work.

tha3rdman

06-06-2007, 06:35 PM

Nearly final, non-skid tommorrow, and hardware all weekend.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1037.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1038.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1039.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1040.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1041.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1042.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1043.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1044.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/stripe/tn_IMG_1045.jpg

bill@ariel231

06-07-2007, 05:16 AM

excellent boot stripe.. your local race committee will probably take 6 seconds a mile off your handicap!

joe

06-07-2007, 06:11 AM

What lake is she going to be in ??

ebb

06-07-2007, 07:23 AM

Golly!

MOST-SUM!

mbd

06-07-2007, 09:30 AM

Ditto on that boot stripe! She's really coming together nicely. Well done!

commanderpete

06-07-2007, 01:42 PM

Absumlutely!

Stunning

Hull376

06-07-2007, 07:15 PM

emmm aaaazing, yea..

tha3rdman

06-08-2007, 04:05 AM

What lake is she going to be in ??

LAKE??

Chesapeake Bay, off the susquehanna river.

Thanks for the compliments guys, hopefully soon it's splash day, soon to come is still the chain plates.

tha3rdman

06-10-2007, 05:07 PM

The chain plates are installed. and the rub rail is comming along, the windows are ready for tommorrow.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/6-10/tn_IMG_1049.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/6-10/tn_IMG_1048.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/6-10/tn_IMG_1046.jpg

tha3rdman

06-16-2007, 03:35 AM

In the water she goes, Mast to follow today, hopefully if all goes well she'll be ready to sail end ong the weekend/mid week.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/in%20the%20water%2007/tn_P1010010.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/in%20the%20water%2007/tn_P1010011.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/in%20the%20water%2007/tn_P1010014.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/in%20the%20water%2007/tn_P1010015.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b294/tha3rdman/in%20the%20water%2007/tn_P1010021.jpg

ebb

06-16-2007, 08:52 AM

Absum!
A posse ad esse.

tha3rdman

06-16-2007, 03:59 PM

Put the mast up today, . . . Twice. The first time we had it set in place and ran the fore/back stays and the uppers, dropped the hook down and proceded to take the slack out of the stays and shrouds, then "Oh ****"(uttered by my wife) (timber!!!!) she spun the turn buckle the wrong way, and the forestay went flying, and the mast followed. crushed the sailtrack in where it hit the aft most part of the toe rail, chipping up the new awlgrip. Aie me.

Moral! Tighten up the turnbuckles Before! you drop the hook. The reason we didi it in a hurry is we used the day sail lift and it was bouncing of the mast, in hind sight a little bouncing, is/was/would have been better then the big bounce.

tha3rdman

06-25-2007, 06:35 AM

Ahh the first weekend of sailing.

mbd

06-25-2007, 10:41 AM

Feels good to get 'em back in the water, don't it! :D

Congrats on all the hard work!

tha3rdman

06-25-2007, 01:46 PM

yes yes it does, was an excellent weekend on the upper bay, friday was 10-15's, sat was 10's, sunday evening blew out to nice cruisin 5's, good temps too, mid 80's

tha3rdman

03-26-2009, 06:20 PM

Well all, you were an excellent resource. I will be sure to pass along this site to the new owners when she aquires them, as of current she is owned by the marina.

Thank you all.

tha3rdman

05-25-2012, 10:03 AM

Guess the new owner never showed up, I seen #97 out last saturday below Havre de Grace. Last spring I seen it on CL for $1500. Talk about a gut check.

Lucky Dawg

05-26-2012, 05:05 AM

No respect!! Buy her back!

Crazer

06-08-2012, 07:30 PM

Is this her? I almost bought her last year but the owner seemed to lose interest in selling her. But here she is again, someone will be getting a good deal.

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/3040108651.html

carl291

06-08-2012, 07:43 PM

One in the same!!

tha3rdman

08-08-2012, 05:02 AM

I still think they need sails they are flying the same blown out rags I had up in 06...

Bill found the ad - again up for sale:

1963 Pearson Ariel. A Classic Carl Alberg design. Newer red Algrip paint on hull. Decks redone. Atomic 4, Garmin depth sounding and gps, One main and 4 head sails. Thick fiberglass due to vintage. Chain plates moved to outside for added strength. Email me or provide a number where you can be contacted. Small as they are, these boats have crossed oceans. Reduced to $2999 OBO Moving to bigger boat.

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/3185149610.html

carbonsoup

09-04-2012, 08:04 PM

Hey, so I bought #97 a couple of weeks ago and what-do-ya-know her she is! She is a great little boat and I am super happy. Things in my life got turned upside down this spring and I was fortunate to have been able to sell my boat in CA.... and then buy this little sweet heart here in the Chesapeake.

The PO didnt really know anything about the history of the boat, so aside from what I could see and touch, i bought her 'as-is' on the spot. I was a little anxious, but seeing as how a lot of hard work has already been done to her, i felt pretty good about the purchase.

So... I have some questions...

carbonsoup

09-12-2012, 04:21 PM

ok, so I have become familiar with the boat... we have bonded and even spent the nite together. but, i have some historical questions, the A4... whats the story? it seems to run fine, but the oil pressure drops quickly below 40 psi and usually its around 10, sometimes less. I have tried to adjust the oil pressure adjustment screw, however, it seems to be at full (open). Was this an issue when you had the boat? has it ever been rebuilt? would the Havre de Grace marina have paper work on maintenance or rebuilds?

Did you service the rudder/shoe when you did the other work? What was the state of the rudder in 06? I say this as it seems a bit sloppy at present.

did you have a water problem at any point? i notice the prop shaft leaks a bit. There are currently 4 bilge pumps... but the bilge seems pretty dry.

thanks!

carbonsoup

11-30-2012, 11:16 AM

So, it has begun! I have had a great time sailing and getting to know the Pearson Ariel this summer and fall but it is time to get down to business. You know the saying, "You can have time, or money, but you cant have both"? Or something like that... Well, I have been given the gift of time, or at least until the spring. So, once the boat comes out the water and placed on the lawn I should have nearly a full time schedule to do a major refit on the boat this winter and complete the job the previous, previous own didnt finish.

You may have seen the last refit on A97 which was done in 2006.
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1332-Ariel-97
And though I appreciate the hard work that was previously done... there was certainly some debatable choices made and some areas that were never completed, namely, the interior. I have lived aboard an offshore sailboat when I was a wee lad and so one of the main goals of the refit is the interior and make her seaworthy to sail up to Maine next summer.

Anyway, as a designer and fabricator I am treating this project as any other major project, so to get started I made a spread sheet to try and prioritize all the projects against time and money. I have uploaded a spread sheet on Google Docs. (you may need a Google account to view).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnTWR9qnmfX6dFRxWVFTVFRHdDhWZGtfUGJGRFVqS Gc

Since i have not completed a marine project like this before it was interesting to see all the costs add up... as well as the time involved. also, it was very tricky coming up with a time estimates for each of the sub projects as there are going to be lots of parallel work going on, but whatever you have to start somewhere.

So, on to Phase 2... measure and design - I will be modeling the interior and cockpit in Solidworks, this will be ongoing, but I will post the model in progress. maybe, at some point I will model the entire boat for everyone to reference

carbonsoup

11-30-2012, 12:14 PM

purchase day...
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1UeiuFwEBd9JkvOhjb5SAXn-a0wf1ADqa

mbd

11-30-2012, 02:56 PM

Great spreadsheet! I remember when A-97 was getting her external chainplates and her topsides painted. She'll be quite the looker when you're all done. Looking forward to watching your progress and seeing the pics!

carbonsoup

12-06-2012, 02:50 PM

request for better hull line drawings. I am modeling the entire boat but I would like to have the most accurate line drawings. I have the original elevation drawings but not the hull line drawing. The best that I have found so far is what I believe TonyG or Ebb had drawn over for a trailer quote. Can anyone help out here with a better copy? ideally something where I can read the dims?

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-hulllinesv1.jpg

Bill

12-06-2012, 02:59 PM

There is a copy in the manual.

carbonsoup

12-06-2012, 03:19 PM

There is a copy in the manual.

Aha! i knew i had seen it around somewhere. I have two white 3-ring binders of the Ariel, courtesy of the PO, but I was looking in the wrong one! thanks, that was easy.

carbonsoup

12-09-2012, 03:27 PM

Here's the hull. whew. purty. there are a couple areas that if i were making actual parts I would be going back into solidworks to clean it up, however the hull is merely a pretty back drop for the interior.. which is really the point of all this. anyone interested in making half cuts?

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A1-1_zps20d243e5.jpg

ebb

12-10-2012, 12:01 AM

What better hull lines could you want?
These are the lines with Alberg's signature
and are as accurate as they can possibly be.

Whether Pearson in the 60's faithfully translated those
lines into the final fiberglass boat we have
is open for discussion.
I do not believe anybody has redrawn lines
measuring from actual sailing Ariels and Commanders
- and published those lines.
Some surprising differences will be found, imco.

Said elsewhere here, you can take page 144 from the Manual
to a copyshop and have them enlarge the image to EXACTLY
9 1/4" WATERLINE and an exact 4" beam.
That will give you a scale for the Ariel's 18'6"WL and 8' beam.
(Believe the Commander WL is different.)
Did the same with all the other Ariel drawings in the Manual.
Downloaded a 1:12scale 'doll house' ruller, that has foot graduations
in 12 rather than 1/8s.
Because you are using unknown gens of copies, this is a close-enough- but-no-cigar approach.
When you have the enlarged-to-scale drawings, you check the other known measurements,
like the published full length and depth
& should find that what you have is pretty accurate.

What we have is what we all have - and that
is the actual reality of the sailboat.
So you should take actual measurements from non-remodeled boats.

carbonsoup

12-10-2012, 02:25 PM

using a copy of a copy, of a sketched over copy, of a fax of the original Ariel hull lines drawing, I was able to create the hull by transposing the other Ariel drawings of the cabin elevations and measurements of Ariel #97... about as accurate as its gonna get. I am working on the deck/cabin currently, which is a whole lot more complex, but I would say that the hull lines drawing, from the manual, has been very trustworthy so far. Once, i get down to brass tacks I will run into some of the deviations. When i am finished I will upload a 100% accurate drawing packet of Ariel #97 which should be about 99% accurate to everyone else... that last 1% is a doozy!

carbonsoup

12-20-2012, 03:11 PM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/IMG_3440_zps5c4241d0.jpg

carbonsoup

12-20-2012, 03:17 PM

Now to get down to work... here is the preliminary layout.
Strbd side aft is a 6' quarter berth with about 1/2 under the cock pit seats. The cockpit is going to get teaked over so there wont be a locker door, but I am going to keep the 'icebox' access... more on this later, i still need to model the cockpit.
Strbd side mid is a vertical ice chest with a 2" stainless pole which will attach to the cabin roof, next to love seat. The pole will also act as a pivot for an adjustable table on a metal arm. (not shown).
Strbd side 'v berth' is the relocated dresser and drawers.
Forepeak not yet finalized, but probably will be toilet with storage/water tank.
Companion way large quarter round surface and step, completely removable for easier engine compartment access.
Port side aft galley with sink.
Port side mid single/double berth with slide out. Head placement is aft with a foot cubby through main bulkhead.
Port side 'v berth' single berth.
Settee and aft berth height is 16" off the cabin floor for more storage and better leg room in aft berth.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A4_zpsf43bd957.jpg

carbonsoup

12-20-2012, 03:18 PM

The main bulkhead is going to have two shear walls sandwiching a non symetrical series of compression posts, this is primarily to compensate for the foot cubby in the main cabin. Also, I had created round cut throughs to allow better light and air movement into the main cabin... and, some what by accident I created different sized circles which i actually like.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A6_zps471b96d6.jpg

carbonsoup

12-20-2012, 03:19 PM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A7_zpsa1b7db5c.jpg

carbonsoup

12-20-2012, 03:20 PM

Any thoughts?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A5_zpsb7440da7.jpg

bill@ariel231

12-21-2012, 05:07 PM

that is a nice group of images. i actually have an easier time visualizing the spaces in 3 views vice isometric (but that is just an old school thought). so a couple questions. where will the forward edge of the aft galley counter space land relative to the port lights? also a question on the starboard quarter berth.. is there room to squeeze back into these spaces?

the curved panels look very cool. if you have time to mock up any of this full scale in cardboard it is good insurance that you will love the result in plywood.

like the others on the thread, 'can't wait to see the tools come out and the changes begin.

cheers,
bill@ariel231

Commander227

12-22-2012, 03:20 AM

What a great head start to the project. It would be great to get such a good feel for the end result and play around with ideas with out having to scrounge around behind grocery stores looking for cardboard boxes. I like your layout, seems open and functional. The head is the sticky wicket, just not too many options for placement other than the centerline on such a small boat.
Mike
C227

Tony G

12-22-2012, 07:29 AM

Hubba-hubba! She's got curves and I'm all in.
That is one fine interior layout. It looks very livable. Sliding your main bulkhead opening over is a real game changer. That small act really alllows some big, yet subtle, options to become viable. when do we start?

carbonsoup

12-23-2012, 06:15 PM

Well I started, yesterday! Day 1, demo day. I was able to knock out all of the interior except the main bulkhead. I forgot to take close ups pics of the mast support beam.... however I would like you all to help me decide as to whether or not is necessary to rebuild it. Im inclined to leave it as it looks ok, but we can decide later.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d1-2_zpsc2a7eb15.jpg

carbonsoup

12-23-2012, 06:17 PM

pretty standard. the galvanized tank was swiss cheese on the bottom and it sounded like a box of rocks when i lifted it out. any takers?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d1-3_zpsb8447d9f.jpg

carbonsoup

12-23-2012, 06:21 PM

btw, the A4 engine was just sitting on the engine mounts with the bolts just dangling... apparently the nuts were just too difficult to tighten for the last person who installed the engine... in 1993. ha.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d1-1_zps3a4ef51d.jpg

carbonsoup

12-23-2012, 06:30 PM

where, oh where, to put a bilge drain? hmm. how about not. I mean really, this seams like such a bad idea, especially when the hardware is mickey-moused as most of the rest of the items on this boat.... notice also the keel void drain just below. (Not in the picture, nylon threaded plugs, painted black.)

i didnt take a picture of the engine seacock. I can turn the entire through hull with only the slightest of pressure. its a good thing this boat has stayed in its slip for most of its life.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d1-4_zps43fa6347.jpg

carbonsoup

01-07-2013, 09:04 PM

what is this glassed over thing on the hull? I guess we shall see!
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d1-5_zpsc9a4018d.jpg

carbonsoup

01-07-2013, 09:15 PM

Ok, so the holidays are finally over... man, living on both coasts is a real pain in the ass. However, my mom is gone for a couple weeks, so I can get down to business with out interruption. Expect a bunch of progress, and questions!

I have a bit more demo and exploration of the main bulkhead, before I can really start with a clean slate, however I have a question about 'marine' plywood... what is difference, aside from the cost?

Also, Im 90 minutes from anywhere (annapolis) so where is a good place to buy fiberglassing materials online? nonblushing and 'fast' hardner, since I am working outside in the winter.

Commander 147

01-08-2013, 06:23 AM

Well...........

There is a wide range of marine plywood on the market. It goes all the way from plywood that simply has water proof glue to the certified plywoods like BS1088 Meranti. I for one would highly recommend the BS1088 meranti for your plywood needs. The cost is not a lot more when you consider the fact that you never want to redo a bulk head just because you tried to save a few pennies up front. Here is a link to tell you all about BS1088 plywood.

http://plywood.boatbuildercentral.com/help.php

As far as buying fiberglass materials online (like you I am in BFE and am forced to buy online) I really like the cost and working
characteristics of the epoxy from these folks. They have reasonable costs on the cloth also and I have bought some of my cloth from them to keep my shipping charges down.

http://www.raka.com/

Hope this helps some.

ebb

01-08-2013, 07:05 AM

What Jerry is saying is the absolute!
There is no finer plywood available to the boatbuilder than meranti. It's made with very thin veneer phillipine mahogany.
glued under heat & pressure with phenolic. A glue that under goes boil tests for delamination that formadehyde glue can't touch.
It is usually dead flat and dead straight. With very few if any footballs on the face BS1088 is the best of best. Grade means there are no voids in the inner layers. You'll find it stampted on the edge of the laminate. It is simply beautiful plywood.
There is a lesser grade without the British Standard 1088 that might be OK. Usually the 1088 is all dark wood and you might find white wood (there are many species of phillipine m. trees, and I've heard the popularity of the plywood stretchs the Standard.
So the Standard may be slipping. I'd assume your lumberteria gets their meranti from a single source
and the lesser grade isn probably manufactured by the same Isralli outfit that crafts the high end stuff. All of it is imported.
Imco if your design calls for 1/2" fir plywood you can half the scantlings with meranti.

I bought some American Plywood Association stamped marine plywood once and it was junk. There were voids and broken veneers inside.
There is no recognized standard for marine fir ply last time I looked.
Veneers are thick and the glue is every day exterior formaldehyde rolled on thick or thin, or not at all.... the manufacturer doesn't give a damn.
Interior veneers can have sapwood or non-fir trash wood, which will lead to rot.
Excuse this rant, but I'll wager
there isn't a single sheet of any kind of plywood made in this country that is exported overseas.
Plywood here is a joke. Of course there is always an exception - never heard of one!

NOT REALLY AN EXCEPTION:
If you insist on using fir ply, get MDO. It is exterior ply with one or both sides covered with resin impregnated kraft paper.
Everyone calls it 'sign-painters ply'. Get the double sided stuff, otherwise it will bend on you. It's great because no-one
can paint fir plywood, this stuff makes it easy. It's still APA plywood, voids, footballs and screwed up layers. Can use it
for bulkheads. Bet meranti is the same price or cheaper! Meranti can be found that will look exactly like Honduras when
sealed and varnished!

As for epoxy, I won't buy West Systems... for reasons found in many threads in this Forum.
Please find a source for NO-BLUSH laminating epoxy. Don't have to put up with 2nd rate epoxy products.
And if you are new to the stuff, read up on it in the many threads here. And then ask specific questions.;)

carbonsoup

01-11-2013, 04:00 PM

alright, well, 30 hours later and almost all the demo and grinding is done... phew. I am getting tired of cold showers! I will post a couple pics of the interior tomorrow, but things are pretty much as expected. The mast support looks great, thank god, but I nixed the starboard side of the main bulkhead in preparation of the offset doorway.

Im getting excited to start building!

Another major decision that I have made is to turn the Atomic 4 inboard motor into a mooring anchor... I have decided to repower the boat with electric instead of rebuilding the A4. I had been teetering on the edge of this decision for some time, however the last straw was getting a call from the marina where I had left the motor saying that they were flooded by rain/tide and that the motor had spent the night under water... yeah, the irony is hard too imagine. After I got the motor to the shed, i drained all the fluids and took the oil pan off.

It is still very rebuildable, but it was never the project i wanted.... it just came with the boat so i was obligated, but in looking to the long term future, not just next year or the year after with this boat but several boats down the line, maybe I would want to repower one of those. Whether you are interested or not electric is going to be the way to go. Might as well try it out now!

Anyone, need a mooring anchor?

carbonsoup

01-11-2013, 04:08 PM

Well...........

There is a wide range of marine plywood on the market. It goes all the way from plywood that simply has water proof glue to the certified plywoods like BS1088 Meranti. I for one would highly recommend the BS1088 meranti for your plywood needs.

Yes, this is good info. Warren Woodworking in Easton, MD has BS1088 Meranti which is great cuz Easton is only 30 minutes away. I think i just sold another motorcycle so i should have the funds for this project, at least for a while...

also, i found another epoxy site. It has a good bit of info and prices though it can be a bit difficult to stay on track...
www.epoxyproducts.com

anyone, have any experience with these guys?

carbonsoup

01-20-2013, 06:54 PM

Drats! btw, 38" is the maximum that can fit through the companion way...

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/IMG_3476_zps98a5d678.jpg

carbonsoup

01-20-2013, 07:38 PM

Anyway, after two weeks of demo, grinding, sanding, scraping, dislodging, cursing the PO, cursing the PPO and constant cold showers the interior was finally prepped for construction this weekend. Omg, finally! So, to start I made a new main bulk head with 3/4" BS1088 Okoume after testing with several 3/16" Luan templates. As it turns out Warren Woodworking in Easton wanted to charge 230 bux for a sheet of 3/4" Meranti... so, i drove to Annapolis and bought what i needed from Chesapeake Light Craft (www.CLCboats.com). At 170 a sheet it was worth the drive.

So, the main bulkhead is about ready to get glassed on the 'aft' side. I still need to get the mast support beam compression posts ready. I also need to make the 'forward' main bulkhead to sandwich the compression posts. I was originally thinking of using 1/2", but now im not so sure its necessary. I think 1/4" would be fine as this is a bit overkill anyway. The purpose of the added sheer wall, in my mind, is to help with the sheering forces and redistribute forces around the multiple cutouts.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/IMG_3481_zpseaf53f13.jpg

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/IMG_3489_zps6a5d504c.jpg

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/IMG_3487_zps796cd886.jpg

Commander 147

01-21-2013, 04:10 AM

You must be a young man because you are going at this with the zeal of a young man. Lot of progress and looking good so far. I will enjoy watching the boat take shape so please keep posting.

carbonsoup

01-21-2013, 06:42 AM

You must be a young man because you are going at this with the zeal of a young man. Lot of progress and looking good so far. I will enjoy watching the boat take shape so please keep posting.

Young, but no spring chicken, ive been around the block. however, I am on sabbatical of sorts, actually, I am caregiving for my mom who had a stroke last year. She is doing great, so good in fact she has been in florida for the past two weeks, which has allowed me to attack the interior with 'zeal'.

I would have to say that I am relishing both my mom's recovery and the time that I have been given to really sink my teeth into such an 'all encompassing' project.

carbonsoup

01-21-2013, 07:11 AM

speaking of zeal, i have been rereading your rebuild of Destiny and I have to say that zeal isnt everything. You have really upped the game with thoughtful design and craftsmanship. I have certainly been taking Que.

One particular modification that you have made, internal halyard masthead blocks, is one i am definitely interested. Once I get some headspace for this modification I will be in touch, most probably in April/may when I attack the mast and spars. One question that I did have; it would seem likely that the halyard could get caught over the top or to the side of the block, during squally weather which would most surely cut the halyard in quick order. Had you considered a SS 'chock' welded on and bridging the entryway for the halyard? I admit this could add leverage of a twisted halyard to bend the entire assembly causing more serious problems...

I posted this question on Destiny's thread

Commander 147

01-21-2013, 11:12 AM

I responded to your question in Destiny's thread.

It is really nice when you can dedicate a block of time to something like this. I'm stuck with whatever weekend days I can get that other plans have not been made for. I also go out and work on Destiny a few hours 2 or 3 nights a week. So I just keep plugging away and would really like to have her back in the water by November when the Florida sailing season really kicks off. I will just have to spend as much time as possible and see if I can make it happen.

carbonsoup

01-29-2013, 08:09 PM

update on the galley / main salon. a bit of 3/16" Luan ply makes for nice templating and mockups.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d29-3_zps96b959bc.jpg

carbonsoup

01-29-2013, 08:10 PM

I had originally had thought to extend the companion way stairs/galley to full depth of 24" and make the large round to make a tangent arc from the galley to the aft berth.. however, the 'steps' were too steep to descend into the salon, so I cut the arc back.... unfortunately, not enough. I plan to shave back even further to the black/cross hatched arc.

also, the kero optimus stove is going to be hung on a gimbal under the counter with an access on the side. The sink sits directly behind. I am going to make the stove and the sink cut out the same dims so I can make a cutting board to cover / slide over either unused item.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d29-7_zps94b7f91d.jpg

carbonsoup

01-29-2013, 08:30 PM

The companionway stairs are removable to gain access to the electmotor/batteries, however its also dry storage! most likely garbage in the back and other stuff in the front. In 3D design i had thought this unit would be sealed from the sides, but when i mocked it up I used strips of ply to make the large curves, it was then that I had a realization to bend strips with a gap in between to allow people to see what was contained inside... i know, not really that amazing, but I also realized that I can use the same idea with the ice chest.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d29-6_zpse761c9cd.jpg

carbonsoup

01-29-2013, 08:55 PM

The ice chest is going to be top loading, rectangular with a large arc on the inboard side. The area under the arc will be easily accessible and the bent strip enclosure will match the companion way stairs. On the top of the arc is going to be a 2" SS pole going all the way to the cabin roof.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-d29-2_zps3cb3ce3b.jpg

carbonsoup

01-29-2013, 09:02 PM

also, i received all my fiberglassing materials today so I should have some structural progress, i.e. main bulk head in the next couple days.

Tony G

02-03-2013, 09:56 AM

I love it! In post #156 you say "not really that amazing", I say fantastic. This will prove to be a great rebuild we will all be watching.

Ariel 109

02-07-2013, 04:28 AM

carbonsoup

02-09-2013, 10:32 PM

Port side compression post base lamination. ive been making some really odd shaped pieces, however finally this piece is not just a template. Anyway, since i moved the doorway over about 6 inches to port I realized that I needed a compression post base that would dissipate the load from going directly to the hull.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-020913-1_zpseeab489a.jpg

carbonsoup

02-09-2013, 10:37 PM

Here you can see the lamination screwed, epoxied and finished. The whole time I was making this piece I kept shaking my head, thinking that this was complete 'amature hour', however once I got it dry fitted it seemed to work. After I ground/sanded and then epoxied the endgrain... im pretty happy. it sure is strong enough.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-020913-4_zps50a720e6.jpg

carbonsoup

02-09-2013, 10:40 PM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-020913-3_zpsf37816e8.jpg

carbonsoup

02-09-2013, 10:47 PM

As you can see the center compression post is really doing all the work, what percentage I cant really say, but some where in 80% range. However, I was fortunate to have had a local wood worker mill down some fresh white oak for me so I had plenty to work with...

the burn marks on the compression posts and support beam is because Lowes' only had 2 1/2" SS screws, so I had to cut off about 1/8" that poked through. Lame. But, once I seal the bulkhead together with 1/4" ply no one is going to see
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-020913-6_zpse14b3fef.jpg

carbonsoup

02-09-2013, 11:07 PM

Here's a link to a thread about building your own gimballed mount for an kerosene camp stove.

http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopic.php?fid/37/tid/28935/

Looking forward to following your progress on your boat.

wow, very nice. actually, the whole boat surrounding that bit of steam punk bronze casting is pretty special. but, a bit too special for me. I am thinking of building one of James Baldwin's gimbaled stoves (http://atomvoyages.com/cys/atomstove.html), these are a little more functional, less form. Anyway, trying to encorporate this stove into the cabinetry is starting to make my head spin. If you look to post #155 you can see the little kerostove on the galley surface, but what I think i am going to have to do is make a stove 'drawer' that slides out from under the countertop. I think this area is posing the most design challenge for me as there are so many other uses for this area... access to the stove, access to the sink, access under the counter, other possible drawers for storage and then how all this collides with the port side settee seating.... and i really do mean collides, as there is not one extra inch of space in this little ship. ha!

mbd

02-10-2013, 05:30 AM

I chuckle every time I see an ad for an Ariel that says "beamy". Love the rounded passageway!

Tony G

02-10-2013, 12:35 PM

Your work is definitely not amature hour. I really like what you are doing to 97. The curves are a gracious surface to deal with when in such a tight space. While some make a very valid argument that these rounded cabinets don't equate to maximum usage of space for storage, we can counter with the fact that there just isn't enough space to begin with to worry about such matters. I for one will live with curves!

You have inspired me scale back ambition to a more realistic level. You can only have so much in one of these hulls so go simple, with regards to systems, and elegant in style. Looking forward to the next installment!

carbonsoup

02-11-2013, 09:16 PM

While some make a very valid argument that these rounded cabinets don't equate to maximum usage of space for storage, we can counter with the fact that there just isn't enough space to begin with to worry about such matters.

yes, a valid argument. well, the world around us has created lots of boxes and so a curved cabinet is most definitely going to lose the fight in terms of space efficiency... but, i have a couple things to say against this argument, firstly, I am a man that is more interested in fung shui than fitting the most boxes in a container. If it doesnt fit in the container then try another container, and if that still doesnt work you might not need it in the first place!

Secondly, I have lived in a boat and can tell you from first hand experience that square cabinets will in fact inflict harm given the chance. I will admit that the curves I am introducing are a bit over sized however, but I am also trying to expand the standing/moving room in between the different parts of the galley/salon.

Also, if you remove an engine and expand the interior volume of the Pearson Ariel by making a quarter berth from the under the cockpit seating.... you gain quite a bit of storage!

In regards to keeping systems simple... I am trying but not sure if I am succeeding. The electric conversion is no joke if you are trying to DIY. I have done a bunch of research but am still far from having the system even specified, let alone bought, fabricated, installed or tested.

Commander 147

02-12-2013, 04:18 AM

In regards to keeping systems simple... I am trying but not sure if I am succeeding. The electric conversion is no joke if you are trying to DIY. I have done a bunch of research but am still far from having the system even specified, let alone bought, fabricated, installed or tested.

Have you looked into these systems? It will cost you perhaps 50% more in material costs but the system is mostly plug and play and was designed by an electrical engineer. I choose to go this way with my electrical conversion because I am not an electrical engineer and felt the added cost of materials was worth the cost.

http://www.electricyacht.com/products/quietorque/

ebb

02-12-2013, 07:59 AM

I think your curves look GREAT!.
Where you have second thoughts, you might modularize
by making the cabinet/locker/railing removable.
EG, don't epoxy it in.
Can bed structures in using butyl tape & screws for water integrity.
AND next century later do the epoxy.

[Only recently on A338 has it dawned on me that instead of the massive tabbing and gluing....
I should have built up the volumes using 1/4" meranti. Pasting thin panel structures together with fillets
and light weight glass cloth. Call it flat panel stitch&glue. Actaully paste, fillet & cover. Amazing strong.
Of course, you still tab cleats or plates (or bulkheads) to the hull for anchoring the boxes.
And lockers and cabinets can be glued - or better - merely screwed.
Use removable trim, moldings, rails to tie things together!]

carbonsoup

02-12-2013, 02:05 PM

Have you looked into these systems? It will cost you perhaps 50% more in material costs but the system is mostly plug and play and was designed by an electrical engineer. I choose to go this way with my electrical conversion because I am not an electrical engineer and felt the added cost of materials was worth the cost.

http://www.electricyacht.com/products/quietorque/

In a nutshell, here is the system I am leaning towards
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-8.5kw.html

motor mount, prefab
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ts-gear-reduction.html

batteries, 12v 100Ah AGM, group 27 (x4). Not sure what manufacture yet, but in the 200-250 per battery range= 800-100 bux (ish)

The thunderstruck kit seems reasonable, they have 'some' sailboat experience and the controller is preprogrammed which means they are willing to provide support. (I already spoke with them about this.) In terms of cost, we a talking a 1500-2000 dollar difference compared with Electricyacht, once you factor batteries. To me, in my, very limited budget.... a little extra work on my end is ok.

One other consideration in terms of money is that I can buy the motor and mount and at least get moving on the fabrication and testing without plunking down 5k... though, i wish i had 5k to just plug and play!

Commander 147

02-12-2013, 02:37 PM

I fully understand the money issue. Have you read Mike's account on his commander C227? I believe he used a Thunderstruck system also. He might be able to give you some pointers.

What will you use for a throttle?

Also something you will absolutely need is a fuse and it needs to be a VERY HEAVY DUTY ONE. Here is a picture of the one Electric Yacht sent me with my system. It is a Littlefuse JLLN 200. These systems can create massive amounts of current flow in an overload and can easily burn the boat down to the water.

carbonsoup

02-12-2013, 02:44 PM

Harbor Freight makes boat sheds! well, not actually. I was perusing the classifieds in 'Good old boat' magazine and saw a coupon for a Harbor Freight 10x20 car canopy for 99 bux and thought to myself, gee wouldnt it be great to not work in the snow and rain?! So, on my way back from watching the Superbowl i stopped at harbor freight and picked it up, then made a stop at Lowes' and bought three pieces of 1 1/2" galvanized conduit, six 1/4-20 bolts and some steel rebar.

when i got home I cut the 10 foot conduit tubing in half and made leg extensions by sliding the base of the canopy leg 12" inside the conduit and then through bolting. the bottom of the legs are sitting over 24" steel rebar pounded in to the ground.

For additional cross bracing I used some of my extra line to go from the top of the center side support to the bottom of the outer leg. Voila!
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/canopy1_zps307c579f.jpg

carbonsoup

02-12-2013, 02:44 PM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/canopy3_zps21d355ca.jpg

carbonsoup

02-12-2013, 02:45 PM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/canopy2_zps4857d9b2.jpg

carbonsoup

02-12-2013, 02:59 PM

Also something you will absolutely need is a fuse and it needs to be a VERY HEAVY DUTY ONE. Here is a picture of the one Electric Yacht sent me with my system. It is a Littlefuse JLLN 200. These systems can create massive amounts of current flow in an overload and can easily burn the boat down to the water.

yes, these are the kinds of things i need to know. the kind of detail that can kill you. The interesting thing about the electric conversion is that you can upgrade over time, but items like quality contactors and fuses that can withstand the rigors of the marine world and very high amperages are what is going to keep me and the boat safe. No skimping here!

Commander227

02-12-2013, 03:01 PM

carbonsoup

02-12-2013, 03:44 PM

Feel free to contact me if you would like any of my input on your electric motor design. I have designed, built and installed a few as well as installing a few from Parsons and Electric Yachts. The unit I built for The Princess has been operating flawlessly with very regular use for three years now.
My email can be found in my profile.
Mike
C227

will do, thanks! actually, your write up was one of the things that made me seriously consider doing the conversion on the Ariel.

Another fellow, Chris McKesson (http://mckesson.us/) who is a naval architect and sailor did a conversion on his Columbia 36 (http://www.columbia-yachts.com/paul/235_electric_propulsion.htm) . He has a realistic approach that I appreciated.

carbonsoup

02-16-2013, 05:03 PM

My email can be found in my profile.

actually, i couldnt find it... but i do have some questions. send me an email and we can start this off, mat at carbonsoup dot com.

thanks, matt

carbonsoup

02-23-2013, 12:45 PM

Another rainy day in feb, so while i sit in the comfort of the fireplace I thought I would send some updates. It has been raining or sleeting the past several days which pretty much sux. I work as much as I can tolerate but walking across a swampy lawn to get to my shed or cutting table in the rain is no fun. I can wait for warm and dry as I will be able to get a lot more done in a single day.

Anyway, a bunch of progress on several fronts, the most encouraging is port side galley and settee. As you will see, not complete however, for better or worse, important decisions have been made; things rearranged, plywood cut and fiberglass set...

so, the stove is going to slide out from under the galley countertop. This large drawer is going to allow my single burner optimus stove to gimbal and underneath will be a storage for pots and pans. To the right (further to port) is the vertical ice chest. I am using the OEM icebox door, hey one less thing I have to make! To construct the box I have laminated 3 pieces of 1" foam to a piece of 3mm ply on one side and some x-mat on the other. Once these pieces are cut to size I will insert into the cabinet, attach and then glass the corners. I think this will make a pretty sizable ice chest

but wait, Where is the sink? well, i moved it... it is now in the 'L' mid ship with the vertical pole... hmm, back to the rabbit hole of choices. why? well, basically because this little ship just does not have the room for the sink and stove to be next to each other. I tried all the permutations and if they were next to each other then one of them was squished or inaccessable. But, why not move the stove to the 'L' and leave the sink where it was... umm, one of my conditions was to have the stove be flush with the countertop; i.e. out of the way when not in use. I think I was nearly ready to toss the coin but then I thought that I would rather have a large portion of counterspace right next to the stove when cooking.... dont mind getting burned while accessing the icebox.... oh well.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-022313-1_zps9e2fe395.jpg

carbonsoup

02-23-2013, 12:49 PM

here is the port settee main support which will divide 3 separate watertight lockers from side access open lockers
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-022313-2_zps36c7e514.jpg

carbonsoup

02-23-2013, 12:52 PM

Here is the port settee/master birth with the 3 holes for 10" deckplates giving access to the watertight compartments and the other half... the 12" dia rounded cutout is the weirdness necessary to have a large 'stove' drawer slide out from under the galley countertop. If you are wondering if the bunk is a little short, I havent cut the hole through the main bulkhead for a foot well. I haven decided on a final shape...
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-022313-3_zpse241b929.jpg

carbonsoup

02-23-2013, 12:58 PM

The 'stove' drawer has to slide out 13-14" to allow the stove to gimball correctly which is what you see here. oh, man the pros and cons! having a clean slate is really pretty cool, however the shear amount of different design criteria makes me woozy. So, the biggest negative here is that in order to have the port settee convert into a large double bunk the sides have to flip up, however since there is this really odd shaped piece missing I cant just make a flip up. instead I think i am going to make a single large L-shaped piece that will detach and get stowed on the ceiling of aft bunk (underside of the cockpit seat).
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-022313-4_zpsb1eb75b0.jpg

carbonsoup

02-23-2013, 01:13 PM

view of the companion way stairs, less stairs. also, on the left is a mock up piece for the aft bunk. this bunk will extend all the way back to the lazerette, however the flat portion will be about 2/3. Once I get my hands on a small opening port I am going to mount this facing the cockpit to allow better ventilation and light into the aft berth.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/a97-022313-6_zps4f093ddd.jpg

carbonsoup

02-23-2013, 02:24 PM

some more holes... does anyone have this many holes in their stern? I had two that were not even being used. Originally I didnt want to touch the topsides, but I couldnt resist. Plus I figure I can 'roll & tip' the stern and no one will be the wiser.

btw, how do I go about paint matching this?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-Day-40-5_zps779cb9ee.jpg

carbonsoup

02-23-2013, 02:29 PM

The large hole on the bottom was where the exhaust was ported. It had huge globs of thickened epoxy, but i can tell that this was not the original exhaust port as there was no additional glass
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-Day-40-6_zps51e115d4.jpg

frank durant

02-24-2013, 10:34 AM

Great update!! Lookin good...very creative and inspiring!!!

mbd

02-24-2013, 12:13 PM

how do I go about paint matching this?

The PO - "tha3rdman" - mentioned Awlgrip Matterhorn White for the decks earlier in the thread. I'd think he probably used the same paint manufacturer on the hull.

Personally, I've always thought a wooden overlay on our Alberg transoms would look really nice:

It worked for Jimmy Buffet.
8785

More to scale.
8787

Or, if you want to get really fancy.
8786

(I thought I had a pic of a CD22 but can't find it.)

carbonsoup

02-24-2013, 02:30 PM

Personally, I've always thought a wooden overlay on our Alberg transoms would look really nice:

ooo. nice, hadnt thought of that, but im not sure a wood stern would go that well with fire engine red. maybe some day if i repaint the topsides.

as far as the color is concerned I guess I could call the little boatyard in Havre de Grace, they may have someone that might know.

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 09:41 AM

well, there is 2 inches of standing water on the lawn (swamp) due to the latest, and hopefully last, winter storm here in MD, so I thought I might post some questions... i have completed the cabinetry of the galley, port settee and the stbd settee base. I stopped after glassing in the stbd settee base as I am not sure as to how the attack raised portion with the sink, shelving, storage and swing out table. I am going to pick up some materials this afternoon so i might have a better idea tomorrow.

Anyway, i moved forward into the v-berth area and had some questions, particularly about a marine head. I was not sure about wether or not I was even going to attempt plumbing a toilet... but alas as I started to kick around layout ideas I felt that I could make it happen. So, the question I have is: is the possible location for a holding tank (seen below) make sense? and what is a an acceptable minimum size? and should I make a box or can I just glass a holding tank in place, directly attached to the hull?

What you will see below is a piece of template ply with a 12"dia round on the side closest to the door frame extending to the port side hull. If you were to extend the lines of this shape straight down you would see what I am thinking for a holding tank. I would guesstimate being around 5 gal. The top surface of the holding tank would be the footwell for the main salon double birth. The toilet will be just forward of the holding tank, mounted on a pedestal, positioned as close to the port hull surface as acceptable.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-1_zps5dfd5571.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:06 AM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-3_zps50eba720.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:07 AM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-4_zps68b194e7.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:08 AM

You will also notice the single birth mocked up on the stbd side. Its pretty high up and I was thinking of having the top hinged at the hull intersection to allow top access. Being as deep as it is it should allow for storage of some pretty bulky items... a sail locker?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-6_zpsb1db5865.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:13 AM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-8_zps13e59849.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:14 AM

Not exactly sure what is going to happen on the port side of the v-birth area, however I do know that the 31 gal Vetus flexible water tank is going to go where the rusted out OEM water tank was located. The increased size of the tank is going to make the cabinet containing it extend from the forepeak bulkhead to the pedestal base of the original marine toilet location. We will see how the tank and the seacocks like this arrangement...

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-5_zpsa4281867.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:24 AM

Here is the port settee/main birth with seat back in position for relaxing. The seat back doubles as the birth extender by detaching and attaching to the edge of the birth. It will extend the bed to about 40" at its widest, also this allows full access to the v-birth/head.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-11_zps919fa466.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:25 AM

And here it is with the seat back in the double birth mode... you will notice the weird shape missing. This piece will have to be inserted into place to make a solid bed surface and then stored elsewhere when not in use
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-10_zpsf47eb32d.jpg

carbonsoup

03-06-2013, 10:30 AM

btw, the footwell opening isnt large enough... i started my cut small, but it needs to gain about 3" in height to accommodate the cushion height. It also needs to get wider...
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030613-13_zpscca2ee95.jpg

carbonsoup

03-07-2013, 03:32 PM

here is the mock up of the folding table. not sure yet as to whether the arm is going to be fixed to the pole and allow the pole to swivel in place or fix the pole and allow the arm to pivot... i am leaning towards having the table arm pivot and detach so I could use the table in the cockpit, weather permitting.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030713-1_zps6536e6aa.jpg

carbonsoup

03-07-2013, 03:33 PM

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030713-3_zps60276707.jpg

carbonsoup

03-07-2013, 03:34 PM

table in the stowed position but with one leaf flipped up for a nav table or a little more counter space for the sink
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030713-5_zps5b6274b7.jpg

carbonsoup

03-07-2013, 03:34 PM

in the stowed position
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030713-4_zps885c1233.jpg

Tony G

03-08-2013, 05:31 AM

Amazing design. Unbelievable speed!

carbonsoup

03-08-2013, 08:48 AM

Amazing design. Unbelievable speed!
thanks, but actually, not fast enough.... however, a bit faster than some of the other rebuilds here on the Ariel Forum. but, i have been given a gift of time so I am trying to get as much accomplished and back in the water this summer. The cabin is starting to take shape, almost feels like a sailboat again, but I still have a long way to go, and a lot more head scratching. We will see at what level of finish she is when I put her back in the water. In terms of when she goes back in the water, that remains to be seen as I will have to take a month long break from mid May to mid June to move from SF to Philly. After which I wont be alone and able to work as much as choose, sooo, I need to get as much done as I can. Thankfully, the winter here is winding down and I should be able to get more done on a typical day.

ebb

03-08-2013, 09:20 AM

Been often here to see your astonishing remodel!

With appologies to John Keats:
Time's sea hath been ten years at its slow ebb...
Long hours have to and fro let creep the sand...
Since I was tangled in the Ariel's beauty-web...
And snared by the ungloving of what I planned!

All speed!

carbonsoup

03-08-2013, 12:29 PM

my new Lavac toilet!
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030813-1_zps33b81486.jpg

carbonsoup

03-08-2013, 12:30 PM

any thoughts on the placement?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030813-2_zpsedd361a6.jpg

carbonsoup

03-08-2013, 12:32 PM

i believe that the previous toilet pedestal location will be behind a low bulkhead for storage/water tank
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-030813-3_zps2ea7b723.jpg

carbonsoup

03-08-2013, 12:38 PM

carbonsoup

03-17-2013, 06:47 PM

Happy St. Patty's day! took a couple pics. getting the v-berth sorted. Took me a while to get the first athwartship piece set up. measure this, measure that, eyball this, check level here, make a template, shave down... scratch head. start process over again. however, once i get a key piece set in place I can move a bit more quickly... anyway, stbd side berth with the two drawers underneith and open storage below that. (The under storage may get a door later.)
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-031713-6_zps0654abe8.jpg

carbonsoup

03-17-2013, 06:57 PM

well, after a bunch of head scratching I put the head where it was in the first place... ha, I tried. But, the point of moving it over to the port side didnt make any real functional difference, perhaps easier access to the forepeak. However, I did figure out some pretty neat feature with the holding tank... in speaking with an Alberg30 owner, I was telling him about how I didnt have any experience with marine toilets and that the diagrams and rats nests of hoses and diverters was hard to figure out. He had built his holding tank up over the toilet and seacock. The idea being that you pump the poo up to the tank but let gravity whisk it away. Wow. So, instead of a series of diverters to pump in the tank, out of the tank, through the tank, over the tank.... Instead, i wont have any diverters and a minimal amount of hoses for poo to get stuck and smell up the boat. If I am sailing in an area where I cant pump out directly I just close the seacock. simple.

So, I am going to make a triangular shaped ply/fiberglass box and mount it directly under the deck and above the outgoing seacock. The holding tank will be mounted to the 1/2" mini bulkhead that I have built. This is so much easier for me to manage and modify if necessary. Before, I had been thinking of making an integrated tank on the v-berth sole that would have needed to be built next to the compression posts... this would have been a huge pain in the ass if an unforeseen problem had arisen.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-031713-5_zps54889b21.jpg

carbonsoup

03-17-2013, 07:20 PM

here you can see the footwell of the main berth coming through the main bulkhead. There will be shelving or locker above it, not sure which yet. The next mini bay is going to be a hanging locker. On the other side of the 1/2" mini bulkhead will be the holding tank.

I would also like to say that I choose an inappropriate time to make use of 1/4" plywood... I used it at the end of the footwell, since this is a non load bearing mini bulkhead, however, now I am stuck having to bridge these two mini bulkheads together as the 1/4" cant take the force if one was to tear at the exposed corner... I will think of something, however, I blame the rain on this one, as I ran out of 1/2" and couldnt drive 2 hours in the rain with a sheet of plywood on the roof of my car.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-031713-4_zps77a32f42.jpg

carbonsoup

03-18-2013, 05:29 PM

I purchased the Thunderstruck sailboat (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-8.5kw.html) kit last week, so in anticipation of its arrival I have shifted focus on to the electric conversion for a little while. In terms of fabrication, the motor mount is what I need to figure out first, so, I took a closer look at the original motor base for the Atomic4. Well... it has some issues, the first is that the end closest to the end of the prop shaft is not really attached to the hull, anymore. And actually, the last 5" or so are spoiled by oil and grime. I say this because the 300lb Atomic4 had a distributed load over the entire base which worked. However, the 40lb load that i intend attach to the motor base needs to be attached at the spoiled end. If we were just talking about the 40 lbs load I wouldnt care, but it is also going to vibrating in conjunction with the motor and spinning prop shaft, which, if not attached properly, may make any vibration worse.

As a matter of fact the entire base is now, after 50 years of holding up a slimey gasoline engine, impregnated with oil. So, i cant just lay some glass over top.

I feel as though I answer my own questions before I even finish typing, but what do you all think?
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-031813-4_zps36d3c1c0.jpg

carbonsoup

03-18-2013, 05:33 PM

Here you can see the black little dots and damp areas... i just sanded and wiped!
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-031813-2_zpsbcdd1ea4.jpg

ebb

03-19-2013, 12:26 AM

Do not sand. You are scrubbing the oil into the glass.
Do not use solvents. In that space they will kill you and drive the oil deeper into the glass.
Don't have the whole picture....but what I would start with carbide scrappers.
I have Bacho. You find them small with triangle and circular blades.
But they have a larger one with 2'' wide flat carbide blades. These are pull scrapers. Tried others, these work on old polyester.
Scrape the hell out of the surfaces. You want to cut out significant material, probably down into
the first layer, maybe more of the mat Pearson probably used to built up the hull in there. [Maybe not that deep. It depends on how contaminated
the polyester is. Maybe not deep at all if the boat spent a lot of time in the water and the plastic had water vapor in it? Impossible to say.
Maybe smelling the stuff removed will clue you whether oil soaked in or not in the scrapings]

A338 has a skinny laminated hull. So in case you have a thin hull....watch it!
Whatever hull laminations you remove (not original tabbing used to paste things on the hull) you should build it back up with glass & epoxy.

Then wash with Dawn detergent or Joy. Some people suggest GOJO, which I haven't used, but it sounds like a good idea. You want to wash/scub/dissolve and soak up the liquid and suds with hundreds of paper towels. Or whatever. You are trying to get rid of contamination, so you don't want to spread it around. Then make sure the soap is removed with rinsing.

Get it dry and do a test with epoxy to see if it bonds to the hull..

I'd see if the mounting blocks are where & what you want. Do they need to be lower for instance. Are they level?
I'd remove any piece that has come loose, cut it out with an oscillating blade tool. Do the decontamination clean up.
Remold the ledges where you want them with polyethylene sheet, which epoxy doesn't stick to.
You can zap together flat pieces with short skinny 'sheet-rock' screws, make almost any volume and shape, pack in your own mix of epoxy, chopped strand, fumed silica, & laminating epoxy - mold in place exactly what you want. Mold falls off after set.
You may find uncontaminated virgin hull that with 40 grit prep will bond your epoxy to the polyester.
But I still won't trust a bond where the old stuff was without testing first.

If you take the old ledges out, maybe you can build down with layers of Xmatt from higher up where oil didn't get.
And build your new ledges from off the new laminations. Maybe find enuf bond to the hull that way? Good luck!
May find something useful on the Silicone is Truly Evil thread.

Here the oil contamination was in gel coat which is more porus than plain layup. Can't remenber what I did, but probably GRINDED it down to green polyester. [remember now: used a Festool heavy duty 5 or 6" sander with small number grit disks, AND an incredible HEPA vac that sucked all dust up. A revelation.].....
You going to raise any dust in the bilge there, beg borrow or steal the tool and the Festool vac. Imagine, no goggles, no mask, no clean-up.
Whatever method, it was replaced with a layer of Xmatt, which is a glass mat you can use with epoxy, and this can
be sanded or grinded to level because it isn't woven. Would not grind on on glass cloth. Faired with structural epoxy filler - epoxy primed, no gelcoat.
Got lucky.... the rebuilt coaming sidedecks look pretty good with no noticable hollow sounding or bendy delams.

With no gel coat, once you've scraped it clean, the oil may, may, not have penetrated very deep. Oil in the bilge would be another story!

carbonsoup

03-19-2013, 09:40 AM

Aha! i read the 'silicone is evil' thread. man, i am truly learning so much about boat building/rebuilding every day. I wake up every morning, have some coffee, do a little email, research some boat stuff on what ever topic i might be working on that day and then attack. So, good on you Ebb for steering me in the right direction before I made a situation worse. Well, as I suspected, and Ebb has now confirmed, I need to start from virgin glass. And now, i know how to grind the oil deeper! Fortunately, I am not dealing with Silicone oil rather just 50 year old motor oil.
So, now I need to cut the old motor base completely out of the boat so I can get a better lay of the land.

ebb

03-19-2013, 10:59 AM

Great! Noticed in A338 that the tabbing Pearson put in after the initial molding was done,
like for bulkheads, settee fronts, stringers, etc - that the tabbing is sometimes TOO EASY
to get underneath and start peeling. Can assume they were slapping stuff together without 'proper' prep.

A sharp chisel can do significant damage to the old green poly.
And start some scarey peeling of old laminations !!!
[Explanation is that plastic can't soak into glass, the liquid plastic surrounds it at best. So if you start lifting
material off, you'll see white filiments of old glass that your tool is cutting along. Doesn't mean they did a bad job.
You can see how glass reinforced hulls get water in them. ] And that's where oil gets into.

Don't know how you're gonna work in there......:eek:

Just thinking.....oscillating Fein-type tools come with a scraper type blade that you push into the work. No teeth.
Wonder if the blade can be sharpened, and kept sharpened with a makita grinder.
Don't want fancy sharp. A ragged sharp would get into the offending glass surface. Worth a try
Haven't did this myself. Don't be tempted to grind on the hull until you're sure it's degreased.

carbonsoup

03-21-2013, 11:25 PM

I got all the oil impregnated fiberglass out of the way. I choose to use the 'peel the onion' technic using a sharp chisel and hammer. I was able to delaminate in nice layers, it still took all day to get the area totally prepped but hey, its gone now. However, on this 3rd day of 'spring' i choose not to sit in the 30 degree windy boat and instead poured through the McMaster site researching all the bits to make the cradle. I think I have most of the major parts spec'd out. I then modeled the parts and assembled them together to find out what kind of space requirements i will need and what I will have to compromise. Not shown are the 'bolt down, vibration dampening, motor mounts' which I am glad to say are only 11 dollars each. ha! eat that marine industry rip off. seriously, i have seen prices on small motor mounts nearing 50 bux each. really?

I have not even touched the 'design' of the actual metal (aluminum) frame as I need to take some more measurements. Now that I have an idea of the components and their sizes I can play the back and forth game til i can narrow things down. One critical measurement I need to double/triple check is the distance from the edge of the pulley to the hull... its going to be close, maybe very close and, unfortunately, the only way to eleviate this is to purchase a longer prop shaft.... which would be another 200+/- bux

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/CradleAssembly_zps44a0cba3.jpg

carbonsoup

04-10-2013, 08:07 PM

When I was in San Francisco a couple weeks ago I cut out 3/16" stainless steel sheet to make all the parts. I checked a box of parts when I flew back east and dropped them off at a local machine shop to get bent and welded. I should get the parts back soon... I already got all the nuts/bolts, pulleys and belts from Mcmaster.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/cradle-v2image_zps96ec7983.jpg

carbonsoup

04-10-2013, 08:16 PM

in other news, i was able to reuse some of the interior bunk fiddles for a mainsheet traveler base. Question: i believe this is teak. Starting from the center, can i just bolt it down? i think its about 5/8" thick. Seems like it should be able to handle the bend... i could use a couple strips of 1/4" marine ply laminated together, but reusing the original just 'fits' better.

now to my metal worker to put a bend on the track.
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/P1000889_zps1b62a3d7.jpg

Garhauer 48" main traveler track fits perfectly
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/P1000890_zpsf56ed695.jpg

carbonsoup

04-10-2013, 08:31 PM

and some clear deck plates to give my boat some soul... sole! though in retrospect, i may have saved some materials, but I should have just cut the entire thing out and started from a fresh piece of 3/4" ply. Having to cut holes, brace the old access ports, refiberglass and then level... im sure has taken more time.

anyway, the clear access ports are pretty nifty. They allow sight into the nice clean bilge storage. They are especially cool with the 'bilge light' on. Soul glow!
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/P1000895_zps32ddccde.jpg

carbonsoup

04-10-2013, 08:55 PM

so i need to start thinking about interior painting. i have no idea. Do i just use standard primer and an exterior paint? do i have to be worried about 'marine' grade paints?

Ariel 109

04-13-2013, 03:32 AM

Nice work, you are really moving along.

Of course you can use any old paint on your boat. But I think you might find the marine paints are quite easy to apply and do a very nice job. The volume of paint you need isn't very much so the cost difference is not too great. I've used Interlux Pre-Kote and Brightside on architectural fabrication jobs after realizing their worth from using them on sailboats. Nice brushes and roller covers contribute greatly to the cause.

Bolting the traveler track through the teak mounting board and fiberglass deck with fender washers and nuts will work fine. No need to glue anything down. You might want to slightly bevel the holes you drill through the deck with a countersink and apply a tiny bit of a soft sealant like Life-Caulk during assembly to keep out water of the lazarette.

Commander227

04-13-2013, 05:16 AM

Looking great! I've had really good luck with a Sherwin Williams two part glossy or eggshell paint for the interiors of boats. It goes on nice and thick flows out nicely and is hard and smooth. No need for primer. It is a lot like working with Interlux 2000E but half the price and a very nice finish. They can tint or color to your preference.
Your traveler track looks to be a low profile track. If that is the case you should be able to just bolt it down with out prebending it. I really like the lights in the bilge idea... Cool.
Mike
C227

mbd

04-13-2013, 08:20 AM

I've read about adding mildewicde to the interior paints too. Seems like a good idea.

ebb

04-13-2013, 08:44 AM

You got a nice and sure touch there Capt Soup.
It's going to be fantastic when it's dolled up and trimmed out.

Epoxy primers will seal the wood, making finish painting easy.
Primed with thin white epoxy and with SW Proline sanding epoxy primer for the cosmetics.
Seal all wood surfaces in inaccessable areas to keep mold at bay, but aye didn't bother with finish coat.
It would be better to have easy to keep clean epoxy enamel there, to make sure it sticks forever. Too much for me.
ShermanWilliams makes great paints, including hard to find marine paints.
Used their Proline sanding epoxy primer all over the boat. BUT

But I don't/can't do that anymore.
Now go with waterborne, water reducible coatings.

Inside painting you might find low VOC SYSTEM3 waterborne sandable epoxy primer useful and even FUN.
WR-155 (Water Reducible). It can be used as a general epoxy primer.
But it's meant to be the prep for their WR LPU paint which you'd use outside, enjoying the benefit of no toxic flamable solvents and fumes. You don't need a first primer with the 155 - roll it on and sand it - for any paint.
There's a learning curve (and a wallet curve) with System3 stuff........ but for me it's been worth it.

Before any paint (last concession to the toxic gods) just naturally will brush on a slightly thinned (penetrating*) coat of laminating epoxy to actually seal and waterproof the plywood. Keep paint from peeling. Easy and quick. Do work with the least toxic laminating epoxy availablle. Don't think they've waterborned that stuff yet!
Not mixed with anything and put on thin, its easy to sand/scuff/smooth and follow with any fairing mix and epoxy sanding primer. Or nowadays skip the primer with the new bigbox acrylic/latex paints. Haven't done that. Depends on what you want to end up with. Or maybe how patient you are!

Shy away from urethane finish coats because imco you can't really successfuly paint over them down the line.
Also it's best to stay away from shiney anything down below, including varnish. Satin hides many sins.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................
*you don't need to buy a special sealer like solventborne CPES. Mix your own using a little xylene. Bad stuff. Slap it on & leave the scene.

carbonsoup

04-24-2013, 10:59 AM

well, i finally got some of my electric drive engine mount parts back. thankfully i made the cradle very adjustable which came into immediate use as I was able to utilize a new (used) 7/8" Stainless prop shaft that was 4" longer. btw, Bacon Sails rocks! i found a hardly used stainless prop shaft for 15 bux!

So, the vibration damping feet are currently attached to the base via 1/4-20 screws into threaded inserts, 2 per foot... im on the fence about whether this is a little too whimpy. I guess I just dont know about the vibration and how it will affect the mounting. I figure that I will epoxy the threaded inserts and used blue locktite on all bolts that dont have lock washers. any thoughts?

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-042413-6_zps9121b0f2.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-042413-6_zps9121b0f2.jpg.html)

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-042413-4_zpsa798e16e.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-042413-4_zpsa798e16e.jpg.html)

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-042413-3_zps18bcb70c.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-042413-3_zps18bcb70c.jpg.html)

carbonsoup

04-24-2013, 11:28 AM

what to do? the bend of the track looks perfect, however the fabricator did not put an appropriate backer on the track before rolling so the top of the track got marred. I am annoyed as I think the hard anodizing is broken and will now corrode at a faster rate... I would like to start buttoning this boat up, but I dont want to have to take this off in a year or two to get reanodized... am i being weird and should just mount it?

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-042413-14_zps011a0086.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-042413-14_zps011a0086.jpg.html)

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-042413-13_zpscfd3cf43.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-042413-13_zpscfd3cf43.jpg.html)

Bill

04-24-2013, 03:43 PM

The path most have taken is to set a teak base under a section of straight track & through bolt them both to the deck. Surplus track is inexpensive and you already have the curve for the bottom of the teak base. Check the gallery for photos . . might want to search on traveler track, etc.

carbonsoup

04-24-2013, 05:44 PM

oh, yeah, i am reusing the bunk fiddle as a main traveler base (post #220) which i think will work out great, however my issue is: should I worry that the fabricator broke the surface of the hard anodizing of the track?

Commander 147

04-25-2013, 06:57 AM

You asked for opinions and here is mine. I would go back to the fabricator and ask him to replace it. If he takes that little care in his chosen profession then he should expect to not make money.

Bill

04-25-2013, 10:03 AM

This is what I meant by using a straight track and curved teak base:

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?90-Main-Sheet-Traveler

I would not bend the track to fit the deck.

carbonsoup

04-25-2013, 10:47 AM

I would not bend the track to fit the deck.

too late! i alreadly leveled and faired the deck, epoxied a 1/4" backer underneith and bent the track! i really wanted the clean line of the back wall of the cockpit without the original glassed in mainsheet pulley stand-offs... im in this project so deep that I couldnt resist.

carbonsoup

06-08-2013, 10:32 AM

well... Im back. After a month long move across the country I am back in Maryland for the summer. whew. Packing one's life, stuffing it in a truck and driving at 60 miles an hour all the way across the country sux. Anyway, I have the summer to get back to work, unfortunately, I can not devote the full time schedule as I had before as I think I might not be engaged (to be married) for very long.

One notable event that happened while I was away in California was that I was able to meet Ebb, in person, and inspect his fine craftsmanship. We were able to talk shop and I was able to see all the construction details that web photos cant seem to capture. It was also great to see another Ariel that has such a dramatic interior layout. After sitting in his boat, and mine, it is pretty weird to see interior photos of a stock cabin!

however, before I left I was not able to upload any progress photos so I thought I might show how I left her a month ago.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-1_zps845bde4d.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-1_zps845bde4d.jpg.html)
The final electric conversion base and motor cradle in place and ready for final fitment. I still have some glass work to do on the cock pit support and then a final paint...

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-2_zpsfc192cd2.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-2_zpsfc192cd2.jpg.html)
The new (used) shaft aligned and ready to go. I had prepped the bilge with barrier coat and then a couple coats for BilgeKote, man it looks great. The gratification in looking at this bilge, though still not complete, is wondrous.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-3_zps0948882f.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-3_zps0948882f.jpg.html)
The under cockpit bunk is nearly ready for final glassing and the bunk base. You can see the glow through the glass of the hull where I stopped sanding just below the boot stripe and then a Sharpied' line a couple inches below for the bunk.... The clear deck plate will allow some ventilation to the lazerette (if needed) as well as access to the engine controls which will be mounted to the rear of the cockpit. This new bulkhead was mounted to the forward side of the aft drain of the former cockpit bench hatch... if that makes sense. This means that the lazerette gained a little cubic footage and that I can also access the engine controls from the lazerette side... I am also planning on mounting an opening port through the cockpit vertical wall to allow light and ventilation from the bunk into the cockpit footwell.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-13_zps17841f91.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-13_zps17841f91.jpg.html)
The V-berth Lavac toilet mock up in place with a barrier coated base. I will install another low bulkhead to seal off this area which will contain any leakage, water or otherwise. These low bulkheads are more than 6" above the waterline which should make her 'unsinkable' in case of seacock/toilet failure. I have to say that I have come to love old Wilcox-Crittendon bronze, these seacocks were stuck but after disassembly, gentile persuasion, wire brushes and a little elbow grease they really come back to life.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-12_zpsdec34bd5.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-12_zpsdec34bd5.jpg.html)
A bit of Bilgekote on the inside of the cabinets before they get sealed up for good. Again, nice to get to the painting level of finish, makes me feel as though and end is in sight and I may be able to go for a sail!

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-9_zpse1f80068.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-9_zpse1f80068.jpg.html)
More under cabinet painting as well as the 3/4" chainplate backers epoxied into place.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-5_zps1061e004.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-5_zps1061e004.jpg.html)
A new quarter circle shelf epoxied to the underside of the port side running light 'box'. This shelf will be duplicated on the other side and will be for easy access to small items. This shelf also marks the location of the new electric panel, just below. On the counter below is access to the vertical ice chest of which I am using one of the old teak cabinet doors (underneith my work gloves).

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-6_zps251020d4.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-6_zps251020d4.jpg.html)
A better view of the quarter shelf. I am also going to mount two 12v plugs on the running light 'box' to charge things like phones and other electronic gadgets.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-14_zps0762e79a.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-14_zps0762e79a.jpg.html)
A view looking back from the head. The compass has been removed so I can glass over this hole. I am removing this for the same reason that the former ice chest access hatch was glassed over. These two things make it impossible to sit in one of the two best locations to sit in the cockpit, back against the cabin, facing aft.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-20_zps698dd54f.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-20_zps698dd54f.jpg.html)
This remains as the last bit of cabinet construction that I have yet to tackle... the sink area with its storage and connection to the aft bunk is still foggy in my mind. I do want to attack this pretty soon and have all the cabinet construction finished.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-051313-22_zps07649cbf.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-051313-22_zps07649cbf.jpg.html)
All 30 or so holes filled and ready for final leveling and then painting. Teaking the cockpit is just not in the cards this time. Though I do have to cut one more oval hole for the opening port in the cockpit well for the aft bunk ventilation.

carbonsoup

07-21-2013, 07:50 PM

I have been slowly working on Triumph in the heat. Its kind of ironic, now when I can find the time to do some work the temperature makes it nearly impossible. In January, i remember working on the boat, looking outside, thinking how great it would be working in the summer... well, this past week its been 95 with 80 percent humidity. My brain slowed as the humidity solidified and imprinted my body onto whatever I happened to be sitting on. Sweating, I would trying and figure out the least physically intense operation... for about 10 minutes, then starting doing, whatever it was that I had sat down to do. another 10 minutes lost.

anyway, I did manage to finish up the aft bunk and get a good chunk of the galley/sink cabinet done. Since, i have been vacillating between several different design possibilities for the sink area, I am at least committed... its the finishing details that get me hung up. For instance, the termination of the aft bunk into the galley/sink cabinet has been really screwing with me; how the different elevations of the floor, bunk and opposing settee heights relate to one another, how the galley/sink cabinet opens to allow access and what happens with a door...? How the curved plywood of the base will intersect with other curved areas... oh god.

When I think back now to the question/argument of curved cabinets, I had previously thought the issue was about space efficiency vs aesthetics. Now I realize the spacial argument is moot. The real limitations of curved cabinets is in the design / build, as they take a HUGE amount of time to figure out, then the build is going to be infinitely more complex and more time consuming . But, I still love them. This boat is going to be awesome, someday.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-071913-2_zps87f5c6e4.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-071913-2_zps87f5c6e4.jpg.html)

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-072113-2_zpse2c60ceb.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-072113-2_zpse2c60ceb.jpg.html)
The upper portion, back of the cabinet, is going to be.... not sure. I thought it was a good space to add some 'sealed' storage, but just not sure what yet. Maybe electronics. Maybe cooking utensils.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-072113-3_zpsa9d8741e.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-072113-3_zpsa9d8741e.jpg.html)
One more concession that I have made is to use a 1-2 gallon holding tank for the sink and use the manual bilge pump, via 'y-valve', to clear the contents. Originally, I was going to plumb the sink back to the cockpit drain, however I realized that the likeliness of taking on lots of water while heeled over was inevitable. I thought about an in-line shutoff valve, but would I remember every time? no. Any thoughts?

Also, the piece of scrap ply on the top is the template for the sink. This image was taken yesterday before I cut the hole- I did change the orientation, rotating it 90 degrees.

carbonsoup

08-22-2013, 02:00 PM

stupid computer.... deleted my very lengthy post. In a nutshell, I was able to spend 5 days last week working on Triumph. I left feeling very accomplished as I near the end of the interior reconstruction. yay!

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-0819-13-2_zpsd5a3a730.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-0819-13-2_zpsd5a3a730.jpg.html)
all nearly leveled and faired, including the former compass hole

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-0819-13-3_zpsc73d0ea4.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-0819-13-3_zpsc73d0ea4.jpg.html)
larger footwell access for the main salon double berth and finished galley sink cabinet

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-0819-13-7_zps0eec4f3d.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-0819-13-7_zps0eec4f3d.jpg.html)
sink is all secured and ready, all working surfaces are going to be topped with 1/4" bamboo just like the sink. Here the sink cabinet will get a pair of double curved doors meeting at the curve apex and the 1 1/4" PVC tubing will be replaced with piece of 1" SS tubing, locked in place to provide support for the edge.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-0819-13-11_zpse86249a5.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-0819-13-11_zpse86249a5.jpg.html)
chainlocker/deck support glassed in and a another low bulkhead forward of the toilet sealing the toilet area.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-0819-13-16_zpsf16e242a.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-0819-13-16_zpsf16e242a.jpg.html)
forward portion of the main bulkhead complete along with most of the port side, v-berth storage area. It was great to see this area come together, just needs some shelving and finish work....

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-0819-13-19_zps80128ead.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-0819-13-19_zps80128ead.jpg.html)

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-0819-13-9_zpsd51f876c.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-0819-13-9_zpsd51f876c.jpg.html)
It may be hard to tell, however, I offset the 11" holes through the main bulkhead to add a little better sight from the main salon to the port window. This also added a bit of whimsy as if you look dead on it looks like the opening has a crescent moon. I think I may light this thin interior space to further accent this.

Lucky Dawg

08-22-2013, 02:06 PM

WHOA! Those CAD pix on photobucket are terrific! Nice work!

http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/library/Ariel?sort=3&page=6

carbonsoup

08-22-2013, 09:08 PM

WHOA! Those CAD pix on photobucket are terrific! Nice work!

http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/library/Ariel?sort=3&page=6

hey thanks Dawg. yeah, i havent revised them since january, however I am working on the plan and elevation views of the redesign as I am going to be putting some of this enormous project in my portfolio. I will redo the renderings to reflect my final design pretty soon. I am say soon since I am looking for work and I think I might be interested in getting involved in the marine design/fabrication side of things in my professional career

you can see a quick blurb of this project and some of my other work here... www.carbonsoup.com

carbonsoup

08-22-2013, 09:28 PM

Dawg, here is a quick preview of the hull lines and layout drawings. These were made using SolidWorks and Illustrator, so as accurate as I think they could be made. I will upload these to the site in full vector for all to enjoy and edit when I get a chance.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q692/a97triumph/Ariel/A97-lines-082313_zps7eba4064.jpg (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/a97triumph/media/Ariel/A97-lines-082313_zps7eba4064.jpg.html)

carbonsoup

08-30-2013, 10:17 AM

www.carbonsoup.com/a97triumph

Here is the beta release of my new Pearson Ariel, Triumph website. I still have a ton of content to insert and edit, so please excuse the lack there of, however please give me feed back on what I have available, site structure and suggestions. I would really appreciate it!

Once i have, most of it sorted out and uploaded I will move the site to a permanent domain.

carbonsoup

12-02-2013, 06:06 PM

...another couple months and I am settled in Philly with a nice apartment (& attached shop). I also have a new job that has kept me really busy, to the point where I havent been able to get off the couch after work, let alone spend any time working on the boat, which is now over two hours away... I knew this would happen which is why i had been pushing so hard to get it back in the water last summer, but alas, its December.

Questions!
1. The interior has been progressing quite slowly so pictures would not reveal a whole lot. Most of my time spent has been filling, sanding and leveling with thickened epoxy. Which brings me to my first question- is there a good, single part, filler/leveler? I am tired of mixing expensive epoxy for fairing purposes. I have interior leveling as well as exterior. The cockpit is 80% finished, but a nice leveling compound might make things move a little faster, with less steps.
2. Another item that I have been spending time with is grinding the gelcoat off the bottom. This is not a project that I had anticipated as taking so much effort.... Im stuck finishing what I had haphazardly started- partially because I was already having to fill and fair nearly a half dozen holes and all the spider cracking in the gel coat made me cringe. Anyway, I have ground the starboard side of the hull (below the waterline) all the way to virgin glass. However, I wanted to ask what would be the proper way to transition to the relatively new red topsides. So far, I have ground to about an inch of the red alwgrip. Should I carefully sand the hull up to the red top coat, apply my barrier coat and then bottom paint. This would seem the easiest, but perhaps the least ideal. i dunno.

ebb

12-05-2013, 02:50 PM

#1. Imco, prep for painting above the sheer has to go forward with 2-part epoxies.
Initial repair with epoxy gel, with or withoust chopped strand glass for structural filling.
There is no other technology that has the versatility of good epoxies for predictable results.

Cosmetic, ie filling small holes and shallow depressions, ought to be done with
laminating epoxy mixed with WestSystem's 407 low density powder filler.
That should be your final fairing and filling.....ready for primer, pin-hole filling, no other flaws.
Imco, follow that with a sandable epoxy primer. Any number of coats necessary...
to present the surface to whatever paint system you will use for final color....for show.

IMCO = 'in my considered opinion'.......
Using 100% solids, no solvents - no-blush - premium laminating - 2-to-1 epoxy will,
imco, protect the boat and also protect the coatings you are finishing the boat with.
100% solids epoxy so there is no out-gassing to screw up your color coats. If you
use SOLVENT epoxy primers & sandables make sure they cure well beyond what is specified.
Seriously look into SystemThree's water reducable 2-part epoxy sandable primers.....
WR-155 works over polyester and epoxy bases, and is compatable with all finish systems,
so far as I know. No outgassing to screw them up. No VOCs to kill you.
(Epoxy primers are the transitional chemistry between, in this case, polyester/ vinylester....
and any finshing emanel or LPU. Imco the best primers are water reducable.)

#2. I'm not sure that removing gelcoat is necessary for barrier coating the hull.
The hull is not known for blistering, as the laminations (and gelcoat) were made with
unadulterated polyester rsisns available in the 60's.
But since you are....once you are done....suggest covering the hull with a primo white epoxy
'structural' coating* (not epoxy enamel paint). Depending on how you roll or spray it on
....three or four coats. Usually unnecessary to prime the bottom if using industrial coating.
Before you apply those important epoxy coats, you can fill and fair with the same 407 material
used topside. Would not recommend any other off shelf powder (but only because I haven't
used them TMK - 407 is good stuff.......However I will not use West System's toxic laminating epoxy.)
Don't use Bondo or any polyester filler in the bottom prep.
Get the ingredients and experiment with your own epoxy formula for a sandable fairing compound.
Imco it's important that the whole bottom up to the waterline is redundantly epoxy sealed.....
certainly if the boat is going to spend the next 50 years in the water..

Assume that if you already have Awlgrip on the topsides the surface would have been prepped
with epoxy. The topsides most likely would not be stripped of gelcoat. They would have been
dewaxed & heavily sanded - fairing and filling done with epoxy and appropriate compounds.

Main reason for the multi-layered epoxy coating after gelcoat sanding or grinding is
to have a water proof barrier to protect the more water vulnerable original antique polyester....

second, to create an obvious layer of color that future bottom prep for bottom paint
will not go beyond. (extra coats so that you won't sand through to the polyester.)

If the waterline is where you want it, imco, choose the top or bottom of it and stop
there with your new bottom coating system. Probably the pro that did the prep
for the topsides Awlgrip went to the bottom of the painted waterline, but stopped his
spray at his masking tape at the top of the waterline stripe.
Waterline stripes are commonly painted with one-part non-urethane enamels to allow
them to be sanded and repainted regularly. Awlgrip cannot take constant immersion.
Matching, or touch-up re-painting, of existing Awlgrip color is out of the question.
Use the boot stripe to adjust mistakes. Top line of stripe doesn't have to be straight.

That's one way to see it!
Hope we're having fun!
.................................................. .................................................. .....................................
* This type of industrial coating will probably have solvents in its formula, or will have
to be thinned with aromatic solvents. For tutorials and products see www.epoxyproducts.com