Tiller fell off!

[Janice Collins]

In memory of Tom's birthday I sailed my boat to his favorite bay on St. John. It was a great sail, no problemas.
It was a bay fac ing SW and the winds and small seas were out of the south so it was rockier at anchor than normal.

After a couple bigger swells came by, I heard a noise from the cockpit, and much to my dismay , there was the tiller and "key?" lying on the cockpit floor.

I put it back on and was able to sail back to St . Thomas downwind with no problem. All seemed normal.


Anybody know where the problem lies? Something I can do to prevent this again?

[Mike Goodwin]

Sounds like that boat's got them poultrygeese , you need an exosist (with a big wrench ) .

[commanderpete]

The tiller hung on for the whole trip until you were safely anchored? I call that a good sign.

[Bill]

It sounds as thought the horizontal bolt under the tiller head fitting may not have been tightend enough -- or it's gone.

[Janice Collins]

thanks, will check that bolt.
And I know it was a good sign....

JWayward Star is tied up in the mangrove trees . Yesterday they had the Virgin Islands in the low probability curve for Tropical Storm Lili passing through..
Today though, looks like it will pass way south.
She now has two lines tied from the stern to the mangrove trees and 2 anchors off the bow. If any more storms/ hurricanes threatens, I'll put 2 more lines to the trees and 2 more anchors off the bow.
I think I'll leave her there for the rest of the month, just in case. So I'll have time to work on her instead of sailing.And the tiller jis number one on the ever expanding list.

[Tony G]

Mangroves...tropical storms?!? I cherish the thought. Just to put things in perspective, yesterday we had a high temp of 52 ( that's farenheight) with morning rains with ICE!! But the sun's out today, we'll probably be in the lower 60's today

[commanderpete]

Janice,

Is it the big bolt at the end of the tiller bracket? It tends to work loose.

Use some big washers and a lock nut.

Here is Lili moving west at 17 knots

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USN...=none&pid=none

[Janice Collins]

Yep, Lili held too far south to really affect us. Some upper bands caused a couple squally episodes, but nothing major.

I will check out the tiller this Saturday. Was out there today to put an OB lock on , due to the fact that I am in a very protected yet secluded hurricane hole. And since I went after work the timing was perfect to be eaten alive by the no seeums so I didn't linger to look at it today.

But it is first on my list for Saturday. Also , there is a lot of play to the tiller. Should there be ANY, and could this have contributed to the tiller bronze fitting separating from the upper end of the rudder shaft?
I never fould any bolt lying in the cockpit, only the tiller and key.
And where should the "O" rings be that I read about in the manual?

[Mike Goodwin]

You want zero play between tiller & rudder !

[Scott Galloway]

Janice,

My tiller head fitting on hull #330 would be loose on the shaft were it not for a shim. In my case, a previous owner used a piece of an aluminum Pepsi can for a shim. I am searching at present for bronze shim material from which to make a shim to replace it. One alternative might be to file a small amount from the inside of the jaws that the horizontal bolt compresses, but I prefer to use a shim and not mess with the fitting. Of course if you don't have a horizontal bolt at all in the tiller head fitting, that my be your problem, or part of it.

Simply stated: If the jaws on the tiller head fitting close before the fitting is clamped tightly around the rudder shaft by tightening the horizontal bolt, the tiller head fitting will remain loose and could slip off the end of the shaft. That would probably happen on my boat if the Pepsi can shim is removed.

The "O-Rings" are part of the rudder shaft bearing. That bearing is shown in the manual on page 168 in my version of the manual, and the O-rings are indicated by the small black circles seen on the drawing in cross section. One of those O-rings: the one on the inside of the bearing rests against the shaft. The other o-ring (the one on the outside of the bearing) rests against the rudder shaft tube.

Don't confuse this "bearing" for an actual bearing with little steel rollers or something like that. It is more of a bushing. It is just a cylinder of plastic with a flange on top that slides in easily from the top down inside the rudder shaft tube once the tiller head fitting is off in order to hold the shaft in place at the center of the tube, and to permit it to turn smoothly as you turn the tiller. So, if you lift the bearing from the rudder tube, you will see the O rings as integral parts of the bearing as per the drawing...assuming of course that your installation is as drawn. Mine looks exactly like the drawing and I have an identical spare bearing.

Although I have some play in my tiller, it does not seem to affect the performance of my boat, and is not noticeable to me under sail.

However, some writers on this page have succeeded in removing the play totally by using alternative bearings. See other earlier posts including photos of at least one modification elsewhere on this page.

Yes, that Caribbean sailing does sound great, but it was still 80 degrees here today, although a little cooler out on Monterey Bay. The fog chased me back into the harbor at sundown.

[Mike Goodwin]

Scott,

You should have no play in your tiller , that is a bad thing and will get worse .With a loose tiller to rudder connection , the tiller can be still and the rudder is moving back and forth creating more wear in the tiller head and heading for a failure.

A little play in the top of the rudder shaft ( due to missing or worn out bearings/bushings )is a completely different animal and can be tolerated but should be corrected as it negates the 'feel' of the boat while sailing , like a car with a front end that shimmies and is out of alignment .
You can get used to this slop in the steering and think it doesn't make any differance , just like you get used to a car with a bad front end , you can get used to quirks in the setup of a boat .

[Scott Galloway]

Dear Mike,

Thanks for your comments.

The intent of my response was to Janice's post was to offer some clarification in answer to her question as to why ones tiller head fitting might lift off the shaft.

You might provide Janice with the reference to the slick modification in which you or Commander Pete used a cutless bearing on one of your rudder shafts. I don't remember specifically whose fix that was, or what thread has the information on that one, but as I recall,it was your design.

My rudder shaft bearing is as per the design in the manual, and it is identical to the spare new bearing that I have which is also as designed. There was no observable wear when inspected by eye in any case,a nd I compared the used one to the new nd there appeared to be no wear or diffeence between the two in comparison either.

The tiller head is not moving against the shaft. Although unwise electrolysis-wise, my Pepsi can shim is a perfect solution to the problem that my shaft was at some point replaced with a new one-piece shaft that runs from the tiller head fitting to the rudder shoe, but may be of a slightly smaller dimension than the original. In any case, the top of that shaft and the key look as if they were new, with no wear. The whole assembly is quite tight and secure, although I need to find a bronze shim to replace the aluminum Pepsi can shim.

The slight play in the tiller therefore probably results from some slop below someplace, the cause of which may become apparent when I haul the boat and inspect the rudder, but a professional diver with considerable experience from a reputable firm inspected my rudder below and the shoe and pronounced it fit, and he and I put the rudder through a bit of a test while he measured the play below, and pronounced that I had no reason to be concerned. My bottom paint is even looking good, but I do need to haul so that I can change out the head through-hull valves. I am not feeling frisky enough to do that in the water, and I want to take a look at the hull below the water line in any case. I will inspect the rudder and gudgeon in person on the hard when I haul.

There is, of course, also the possibility that the upper bearing has some space between it and the inside of the rudder tube, but it slipped into place very snuggly, so that is not likely to be the case.

Again I notice no play whatsoever at sea. The boat handles marvelously. I have had it out in 20 knots of wind and ocean swell, and sailed at all points of sail under those conditions with no adverse effects.

[Janice Collins]

Update: I had to use a shim to keep the tiller head fitting on the shaft. That's why it fell off.....Used copper for the shim. The key had some play also, so that got shimmed as well.
The tiller feels much different with less play. It took a little gettin' used to.
Was glad I had that fixed ...2 days later took my sister for a mini sailing vacation and found ourselves in a little bit of rough stuff. Would have been a scene had that tiller fell off then...