Tiller Discussions

[bill@ariel231]

Mike

the tiller fix looks great, and 38 1/2" doesn't sound too short to me. It looks a lot like the one i've got installed on Periwinkle

cheers,
bill@ariel231

[ebb]

Something has always bugged me about that tiller fitting. First thing was its humongous weight. Second is the narrow channel for the tiller wood.

Can't see that any strength would be lost by scooping out some of the top of the tillerhead. However, with laminated tillers predominating, the closed top allows a decent way to attach a shapely laminated tiller using vertical bolts..

A composite tiller could be designed that would attach the tiller to the OUTSIDE of the present tiller fitting.

In other words the tiller would be split to go around the metal sides rather than THROUGH it! It's the tiller that would have tangs.
Such a tiller could virtually eliminate the breaking moment of our usual insert tiller that has barely 1 1/4" of wood thickness doing all the work. Could call it a wishbone type design with the split meeting sooner or later up the tiller shank to become the standard handle form. Would keep it even lighter not filling between.

Seems to me that the narrowness of our tiller inserted into the metal could just as easily break there where it leaves the fitting. Even done as Mike has. The tiller after all is a lever and at a real disadvantage in this application.


Can't see that the laminated tiller form as we know it could be altered into a split version as described. Too much small wood. But a modern foam and fabric (this has already been done with carbon) tiller might work.

[HOOKMAN]

I also recently got a replacement tiller for my 1966 Pearson Ariel from H&L and am quite pleased with it. Here are the details:
323-636-1718
Tiller shape: E
bracket end height: 2 inches
bracket end width: 1 and 1/4 inches
length of tiller: 39 inches
curve height: 2 and 1/4 inches
$70.70 finished

[mbd]

That would certainly have been the easier route to go!

PS. Finally got a sail in and I think the tiller will work out fine - no problem with the shorter length...

[GreggA107]

Hey Commanderpete,

Was reading this thread in the archive because my tiller is split at the handhold end and seems solid at the bracket end. Just getting ideas for a replacement. Where was this shot taken? Either one of those mugs you?

[ebb]

H & L Marine Woodwork
2965 E Harcourt St.
Rancho Dominguez Ca 90221
323-636-1718
310-638-8746
fax 323-636-1720

Largest and oldest marine workworking outfit in US.
Probably make all of the ash/mahogany laminated tillers you see in any catalog (pyacht, defender, wm) and in any store.
The tillers have a sleek and recognizable style.

[They custom made a tiller for litlgull* for about the same cost as one of their ready-made classboat tillers.
I mailed them a full sized cardboard pattern which they translated into a beautiful laminated tiller at a reasonable price. And in about a week.]
Check their prices first befor committing to an internet catalog purchase.

They may have a pattern for a replacement tiller for Ariel/Commanders.
Ask, if that's what you want.
They may have made and supplied the original tillers for Pearson A/Cs 50 years ago.


*You can get your new tiller bare or varnished. Since the tiller has to be carved to get it to fit our tiller head - and also I wanted to prep the wood myself with penetrating epoxy and use Epifanes varnish - I got it unfinished. It was a little cheaper, but also arrived nicely sanded, ready to go, and beautifully made.

A pleasurable experience!


{I must apologize for all the endless repetition I have made here on this subject.

In the future I'll try to remember to review the thread BEFOR posting. Sorry.}

[commanderpete]

Hi Greg

I'm in the back on one of those pictures

Ebb is right, H & L is the place to go. They still don't have a website I believe.

I like the tiller design from the Manual. It might be improved if the handhold end drooped down so it was a bit flatter

Edit: I found another thread on tillers -- [now merged with this thread, Moderator]

[ebb]

That has to be (from the nice way the tiller handle ends)
an H&L.
And that's taller than the the Montauk Lighthouse the young man is looking at...so where are we?

[Commander152]

My tiller has some fixable cracks in it. I plan to buy a new tiller, and then, fix the old one and use it as a backup.

For the new tiller I have two questions:

1. I see the drawing on page 83 of this association's manual. It sounds like people like the shape and it looks better than my current tiller, so I am thinking about going with the drawing. Have others had good experience using the drawing?

2. Do forum members recommend any new tiller companies? In my web search I found Rudder Craft in Idaho (they have a Commander Tiller) and Anytiller in Georgia (they will make you a custom tiller). Are these good companies or does anyone have a different post-H&L favorite?

[Commander152]

My Pearson Commander tiller has some fixable cracks in it. I plan to buy a new tiller, and then, fix the old one and use it as a backup.

For the new tiller I have two questions:

1. Do forum members recommend any new tiller companies? In my web search I found Rudder Craft in Idaho (they have a Commander Tiller that looks similar to my current Tiller) and Anytiller in Georgia (they will make you a custom tiller). Are these good companies or does anyone have a different post-H&L favorite?

2. I see the drawing on page 83 of this association's manual. It sounds like people like the shape and it looks better than my current tiller, so I am thinking about going with the drawing. Have others had good experience using the drawing?

BTW, This forum is hugely helpful and so is the manual. I thank you all for managing the forum and keeping it active. I hauled out my boat and had all the bottom work done as specified in the manual. Thanks!

[ebb]

H&L probably got sold 10 years ago, thereabouts. But someone is still around on the
internet selling tillers very like H&L They will show a stack of their tillers very much like
the original company did. But it may also have new ownership. RUDDER CRAFT
comes to mind, MauriPro looks like they offer class laminated tillers,
which may be RudderCraft.

I didn't like the original knee basher tiller and, made up a pattern slightly more S curve (it
looks more radical than it is) that swings pretty much above sitting knees in the back of the
cockpit. Instead of close matching to an existing class tiller, they used the pattern to
make an exact copy, and charged me no more than a normal price, which always was
very reasonable.

I like the tiller very much. The exaggerated S curve looks normal to me. It also allows
the tiller to be used in the resting down position when the helmsman is standing, where
the tiller is supported in the tiller-head, instead of being angled up using only the 5/16"
machine screw that attaches the tiller to the head. This screw/bolt is not easily replaced.
I have never found a ready-made.

I don't believe the boat should be steered with the tiller in the raised position.

One other thing. These laminated tillers are at a disadvantage with the attachment bolts
passing thru the laminations in their present side to side position. This is where we see most
wood to metal failures occur. After reducing the tiller end to fit the channel, I located the
attachment bolts thru the top of the channel so that the laminations are held in a clamp
position. Instead of washers under the nuts underneath I made a short one piece strip out
bronze strap. This may be unnecessary.

I lucked out back then when I scored what I stlll think is a perfect tiller. Fastening the
laminated tiller thru the top came from one of our owners here, sorry, forget who, but is
the perfect alternative to attaching softer glued-up material to that massive tillerhead.
Isolate the wood from the metal.

Likely that the tiller will need replacement in the future. Use an old-fashioned bedding
compound to waterproof the connection. Seal the end of the tiller with liquid epoxy. If
no bedding compound is available judiciously use LANOCOTE, you want to keep fresh
water out of the joint. Don't use any of the rubbers like 4200, Sikaflex, BoatLife. I
wouldn't use butyl or butyl tape either! NO RUBBER.

Semper Alberg!

[Commander152]

I assume your S-shaped tiller is different from the one in the commander manual. Is this assumption correct?

[ebb]

YES did find a doorskin pattern for the Litlgull tiller.

Being doorskin I will assume it is accurate and was
used to send H&L the pattern. If interested, send me
an email: eborregaard@hotmail.com.

There may be somewhere in Ebb's Gallery a photo
of the tiller, or the pattern???


Could say the knee-friendly tiller is more of a bow
shape with a short angled straight end into the tiller-
head.
You could sit in the cockpit with a stiff piece of card
board and using your straight tiller Sharpie a few
curvaceous lines to get the idea. H&L ash and
mahogany tillers have a beautiful taper, which was
created for the 'cobra' style tiller that H&L made.


Suggestion: Go to the ruddercraft.com site. Go in
thru products/tillers and hit the Ranger29 tiller. It
has a fairly pronounced upward curve. BUT lay a
straight edge under the picture, you'll see the curve
is not as radical as it seems. I made a full sized
pattern of a Ranger tiller (back then), didn't like it
because the upward curve was too gradual. It is an
'S' curve. So I made a pattern with a quicker rise.

I know nothing about RudderCraft. Wouldn't
surprise me they'd make a custom tiller using a
custom pattern but using their own taper formula.
For a price. Maybe reasonable!
They seem to have all the old class patterns that
H&L had, they must be direct descendants..

[ebb]

Swear there was a new post here that laid out the measure of the rudder stock..

Turns out the stock is 69 1/4" OA. Hope to get back here with a little more..

__________________________________________________ ______________
Ebb's a wee confused. Go to RUDDER DISCUSSIONS for rudder stock talk.