Commander 227

[PJM]

The dilemma around bow pulpits and stern rails is ongoing for me. I have a bow pulpit on Cup O' Tea IV and it's staying there. But the stern....hmmm.

Sometimes when I'm hanging out over the lazarette fussing with the enginge or rigging or something else and the boat is bucking like a bronco on these Long Island Sound waves - it sure does seem desirable.

At 6'3", guidelines are, for me, something to grab pretty late in the game. Probably on the way overboard and too late to do much good. Practically have to bend in half to reach them. That said, for kid sailors they sure do seem desirable.

So I went online in search of a pushpit. Found one fairly quickly from those boys up in Maine. But...I just can't pull the trigger. There's something about that clean, open Commander stern that just screams Alberg without the extra hardware putting a period on an otherwise never ending sentence.

Ariels, on the other hand, seem more "established" and welcome the extra chromeware.

Just my 2 cents...

Scott

I'm a little late to weigh in on this topic, but ...

I'm into my season #3 with C74, which has an A4 inboard engine. One of the things I did in season #2 was to take off lifelines and pushpit .... absolutely no regrets. Looks much better to my eye and I never really trusted the lifelines anyway. At 6'1", I can go from a hand on the companionway hatch railing to a hand on a shroud to a hand on the forward hatch, etc. I also took off the cabin top handrails, with no regrets. If I ever really felt I needed the lifelines, I'd be much more comfortable rigging jacklines and a harness.

In general, staying out of Maine waters is a desirable thing.

PJM

[Jon]

Cdr 227, I haven't seen any posts from you on your electric engine, now that you've used it for a while. I'm working on Sirocco and she will be ready for a new engine within the month, but after seeing your posts and admiring that clean install, I have begun to wonder if going electric, rather than diesel, might be a better idea. How has the electric worked out on The Princess? thanks

[Commander227]

Jon,
I'm on the second sailing season with the electric inboard and (knock on wood) so far it has been 100% reliable and surpassed my expectations.
We typically get out 2-4 times a week and since we have the electric motor we go out whether or not there is wind. It is very pleasant just tootling along the shoreline or adding a little power if the wind is real light.
I have what I conceder to be a very minimal battery bank, 4 cheap group 27 marine deep cycle batteries, and after 2 years of pretty consistent use I still get about;
1 hour wide open at hull speed or slightly above or around 6 miles. or
2 hours at 4 - 4.5 mph. or
4 hours at 3 mph which is our typical cocktail cruise speed.
There is plenty of space in the boat for a bigger and better battery bank and the range could be doubled with out much more cost or effort. It was my intention to use this small bank of common batteries to determine exactly what my needs were then keep them as a reserve and add a larger bank or just replace them. So far I have not felt the need for any more juice so I will try to get another couple of years out of them then perhaps go to group 31s.
There is plenty of power, I've never been in a position where I wanted more. I typically use around 1/4 of whats available and only use full power when changing directions or stopping when I'm coming into the slip. Great stopping power! Its like having brakes. The motor could handle a more aggressive prop, I max out the rpms at 65 amps and the controller will allow 200 amps. But I can get to hull speed so more bite isn't really needed.
Over all we love the set up and feel it's perfect for the way we use the boat. We are however in a pretty controlled environment being on an inland lake with out tides or currents. We can never get too far from home and can plug in the charger in our slip. I think if you can live with the limited range its ideal.
I've seen the new Electric Yacht package like the one Jerry is installing on Commander 147, I can't wait to compare notes with him when he gets his going. Its a nice package and they started using the same Mars PMAC motor that I installed.
Mike
C227
As a side note I just installed one of the Parson electric outboards on a 22' S2. Tons of power! It again uses the Mars PMAC motor and has a controller which will allow 100 amps. They call it a 4 hp but I think it has all the power of a 4 stroke 6 hp. Nice and quiet. I think it would be great on an Ariel or Commander.

[Commander227]

We have been having an amazing fall sailing season so far, compare these pictures to those I posted last fall on around the same dates.
Another sailor snapped these shots of The Princess with her jib boom. (which we LOVE!)

[Jon]

Man, those pics are lovely. I love the jib boom too. Tell me, where did you get it and how much trouble was it to install?

Sirocco, who was supposed to have been splashed in June, is still on the hard. She had a lot more deck problems than anyone suspected but all of that has been repaired and she's been painted. It's my understanding that the marina is reinstalling hardware and then, after all my deliberation over the matter, they will install a new Kubota 14 diesel to replace the Atomic that was pulled earlier in the summer.

I think that I'd love to have that jib boom added to the mix. That just looks like a great way to go.

cheers, jon

[Lucky Dawg]

Excuse my igornance, but I'm curious how a jib boom works with a foresail larger than the one you're flying. Or is flying a genoa simply not an option with that set up? On Lucky Dawg, my headsail choice with respect to wind conditions - and often the choice is a larger foresail - makes a big difference in our performance.

[Tony G]

We have been having an amazing fall sailing season so far, compare these pictures to those I posted last fall on around the same dates.

Yeah! No kidding there, Mike. Last October in Minne-what the #*!! am I doing here-ota was crappy! She looks beautiful out there. I'm surprised we can't see your smile in those photos.

Kyle, your 'J' cant be any longer than your jib boom. But if you doo a lot of tacking I don't see how you could beat having one. Maybe Lucky Dawg can have a asymetrical for those lower wind speeds?

[Commander 147]

Mike

Your Princess sure is a good looking boat. And thanks for posting the pics with her under sail while using the jib boom. The headsail looks well tuned using the Hoyt jib boom.

Like Lucky Dawg I am curious about how easy it is to use a genoa with the jib boom up there. Have you sailed her that way yet? Did the genoa hang up on the jib boom or did it float over it?

Also you probably don't anchor out much on your lake but I have been concerned about how much the jib boom would be in the way when anchoring out. I suppose it could be say pulled to starboard and secured near the rail for those times but the forward end of it would still be possibly in the way. What are your thoughts on that?

[Commander227]

Jon - The jib boom is a very simple install, just locate it around 10% of your "J" back from your head stay (not a critical measurement) pop 5 holes, fashion some sort of shim under it to get it to clear the coach roof and life lines if you have them, install a backing plate and bolt her on. I complicated the install a little by running the control lines and sheet under decks but that wasn't really rocket science either. I will be glassing in some structure over the winter to help support it but I need to make some decisions about some other modifications first. Any retail outfit that handles Forespar products can order you one, I have an account with them and I could order you one and have it drop shipped to you.
The sail did take some screwing around. As I mentioned before the dimensions are fairly critical as you cannot move a car to change your sheeting angles, you can change the angles by playing with your hoist, but you need to be pretty close. I have a small repair loft at the marina so I cut down an old jib from a larger boat and sailed with that making some modifications and mental notes. While I can run a sewing machine and know a little about sail shape I didn't want to loft the sail myself. I had Sailrite design and cut the sail to my dimensions and I stitched it together. As you can see by the pictures the shape is pretty good.

Kyle and Jerry - I have not flown a genoa on The Princess since I installed the jib boom, No reason I couldn't although obviously you wouldn't be using the jib boom, but I'd have to drop the jib, fold it, hoist the genoa. run the sheets,... all in all it could be an exhausting five minutes and if you haven't pick up on it yet I'm a pretty lazy sailor. I'm sure there is a better chance of fouling your genny sheets when tacking but usually you can work out a system once you find out where the problems lay. You would probably want to keep an eye on your lazy sheet and keep some tension on it.
We do anchor out quite a bit, no problem, (see pic #1 above) in fact the jib boom gives you something to hold onto when you're on the bow.

[Commander227]

I took a last minute trip out to Annapolis last Thursday to check out the big show. We flew into DCA and rented a car getting to the show around noon and left for our return flight at 5:30. (flight benefits, the one advantage to my early{read forced}retirement from the airlines where I was a mechanic for 20 years)
With only five and a half hours to take it all in it was a bit of a whirlwind. We saw about 90% of it but only stepped on a few boats that struck our fancy.

My favorite.... The Morris 42. This is the perfect combo daysailer/weekendeer for Boo and I. Sleek, beautiful, great fit and trim, easy single hander, great line management. The open floor plan below maximizes the space with an open V berth. A great husband/wife light cruiser. It'll never drop down into my price range, but one must be able to dream. Some day, maybe within 10 years, after we recover from putting our two sons through college we hope to have a boat in a warm place and do some island hopping and coastal cruising. Maybe I can find an old wore out Hinkley Sou'wester and implement some of the innovations from this boat.

Favorite knock about....The CW Hood 32...Wow! (pic #1) followed by the Rustler 24 (pic #2)

Comparable to The Princess??? As I've stated before we built The Princess to match our very specific wants and needs to sail our home waters. We love it, its perfect for how we use the lake....but what if price was not a factor, whats out there that would suit our needs?
I saw 3 boats that come close;
#1, The Harbor 25. (pic #3) This is the closest thing I saw to The Princess: I'm sure it could be custom ordered with an electric motor to replace the gas saildrive, the cuddy is of similar size and the fit and trim is better being it has a liner although the head set up left something to be desired. It is well rigged, including a jib boom although the line management is mostly above decks and not within reach of the helm. Its almost a good looking boat, but over all I'd call it a swing and a miss. Horrible stern!
#2, The Alerion 28. (sorry, no pic)Good looking boat. Saildrive with small diesel. Easy single hander, the best jib boom set up. Although again not all the lines are with in reach of the helm and most are run above the decks It's nice having the low coach roof as it has great visibility however I know Boo would not like the crouching headroom and lack of privacy not to mention having a porta-potie instead of a head.
#3, The Morris 29, (pic #4) Wow, great boat, beautiful!!! Self tacking jib, Asymmetrical spinnaker with a dousing chute, line management is excellent with all lines run under decks and great placement at the helm, small diesel saildrive, very comfortable cockpit. Again, I know Boo would be disappointed below decks, there is a head, but no headroom and no privacy.
Honorable mention. The E33 and the Alerion 33 are fantastic boats, both went back to tiller steering, have great line management and huge comfortable cockpits. The extra size really helps out below decks, although because of the extra 7' one cannot really include them in the comparison.
So, although these are overall some fantastic boats and I'm sure they point higher and sail faster, my feeling is that The Princess reigns supreme. I just need to spruce things up a little below and make some decisions about the whats and hows for my off wind sails.

[Commander 147]

Mike

Thanks for the report for those of us that could not make it all. Good looking boats and interesting to read your comments on them.

Thanks

[Commander227]

An Alerion 28 snuggling up next to The Princess

[Commander227]

Maybe I can push off the inevitable a week or two and get a couple more sails in before the ice.

[carl291]

Mike , Would you have a bow stem fitting lurking in your parts inventory for an Electra/Ensign? Thanks, Carl

[Lucky Dawg]

[QUOTE=Commander227;22327] And then there was one. [QUOTE] When I look at your docks completely full, the Princess is the only yacht I see.