Outboard Discussions

[Westgate]

Craig:

I wonder how much of the performance difference you are experiencing is the result of the switch up from the 2 to the 4 stroker? 4 strokes are different beasts in my experience. They tend to have better low end "power" but suffer in the top end.

The 6/4 yammy does have a larger engine than the Tohatsu (197 cc vs 123 cc). Might produce more torque? Have you seen a yammy 6 in action?

I know exactly what you are talking about wrt racing for bridges. What you forgot to add is the tide is ALWAYS against you when it's going to be close.

[Bill]

. . . I would like to try the Yamaha 6hp 4 stroke.. but I doubt it would fit in an Ariel well . . . Also, if anyone has successfully mounted a Yamaha 6/8 4 stroke in an A/C well I would like to know of it.

:

As noted elsewhere in this thread, Tohatsu makes the Yamaha and Nissen 4 & 6 hp 4 stroke engines Going to an 8 hp 4 stroke requires major modification to the engine well in the lazarette. See Ebb's photo gallery thread for one such modification

[Westgate]

Bill:

Tohatsu does make Nissan and small block Mercury outboards but Yamaha is made by Yamaha.

Andrew

[c_amos]

:

As noted elsewhere in this thread, Tohatsu makes the Yamaha and Nissen 4 & 6 hp 4 stroke engines Going to an 8 hp 4 stroke requires major modification to the engine well in the lazarette. See Ebb's photo gallery thread for one such modification

FWIW,

The Tohatsu plant makes the Mercury, Nissan, and Tohatsu outboards. They are the EXACT same motors, right down to the paint. The Mercury dealers will try to convince you otherwise but there is no difference. (Other then the Mercury being much more $$$)

[Theis]

I have found the zinc Yamaha sacrificial anode will last a couple years in fresh water, less than that in salt water. In fresh water a magnesium anode should be used but Yamaha doesn't make them unfortunatelyso I have to be certain to keep the lower unide and propellor painted so the aluminum doesn't become the sacrificial anode. I only use TriOx bottom paint as it doesn't react with the aluminum andis slime/algae resistant.

[ebb]

well holy Thetis,
Theis you are back!
May have missed an earlier post here....
sure is good to hear from you.
Hope you are well and sailing again.
Heres to ya!

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________

May I ask you OB motor guys this:
Can (a Yamaha 8/4 stroke in my case) an outboard be fresh water flushed while in the raised (tilted) position?

Thanks.

[Westgate]

Ebb:

Does your engine have a flushing port for a garden hose attachment? ie flush port at the top of the engine block. If so then you could flush it in any position because you don't have to run it during the flush. If on the other hand you are relying on rabbit ears (flushing from the bottom of the lower unit) then I would not flush in a tilted position because to get full effect of the flush you need to run the engine. I would worry about the problems with the oil sump/pump getting starved if not run in a vertical manner.

Andrew

[Orca]

Please note my post in the Tohatsu 6 area looking for feedback on first hand experience between the 20" and 25" shafts on the new 4 strokes. Ed

[ebb]

Did not respond to Andrew Westgate's #187 post. Sorry!

I know my situation is unique. But 100 plus pound 8HP OBs are not out of the question.
And therefor are not readily removable from the well.
Although I think I've noticed that new (2010) Yamaha 4 X 8s have lost 20# and
now have the garden hose attachment conveniently under the hood.

Amazing!
In the OB world this is about as important an innovation as sliced bread!!!

I naturally have the older model that needs the rabbit ears and the motor to be running to flush.
[later EDIT: I believe the Yamaha is a 2002 model and has that garden hose fixture for flushing. NICE.]

Has anybody here noticed how the garden hose flush works?
Can this fitting be retroed to an older Yamaha?
Is there a kit available?


Assume that lighter two stroke 8HP models are now available that run a lot cleaner - equal to the California ordained four strokers.
I believe they are around 50 or 60 pounds.
I may have to find one of them (in Nevada?)
because well flooding IS a real problem.
Could probably man-handle a 2010 two-stroke in and out of the well.



I plan on installing a Garhauer lifting davit for the steroid Yamaha.
That means the motor could be lifted and flushed in a vertical position.
But that means messing with a strap contraption everytime.
Having to use this strap-thingy seems stupid to me, really.

Another invention for Yamaha to come up with are built-in lifting eyes that you
could hook or tie on to that would raise the motor in a balanced vertical position.
That would make it easy to mount the clamp.
Took a hundred years for the garden hose flush to appear..........

[Scott Galloway]

Ebb,

I have not looked at the current model Yahamas, but my Nissan 6 hp four stroke has been modified by inserting a fitting into the flushing port on the bottom of my Nissan, and then hose clamping the hose barb on that fitting onto a Yamaha garden hose flushing unit from a model that they made a few years back. They may still be using the same unit now.

The Yamaha device is just a piece of hose and a cool little bracket that attaches to the housing of a motor. the Bracket his a female threaded garden hose plug. It is permanently mounted to my Nissan motor housing. All I have to do is remove the line from my gas tank, lift my motor with my Garhauer Lifting Davit, and while the moor hangs there out of water, remove the Yamaha flushing hose from its bracket with my hand and again by hand attach the male end of the hose on that unit to female end of my dock hose. Then with the Nissan 6 running (as per the Nissan operations manual), I run the motor until I run the motor out of fuel thereby flushing the motor and draining the carburetor.

The built in lifting eyes would be handy. I use a Davis motor lift that must be removed to check the oil. Its a snap to remove and a pain to reattach when the motor is in the well.

[c_amos]

....Assume that lighter two stroke 8HP models are now available that run a lot cleaner - equal to the California ordained four strokers.
I believe they are around 50 or 60 pounds.
I may have to find one of them (in Nevada?).........

The 2-stroke Yamaha's are the same design that they have sold since the 80's. They used chrome rings, and a different needle after (96?) to get them to run on 100:1 mix (still no where near as clean as a 4 stroke).

I loved mine (it was a 100:1) and would probably ditch my new Tohatsu 4x6 for one. The problem is the only ones (if you can still find one) for sale in the US have been the short (15") shaft models favored for tender motors. I had a chance to buy one in the Abaco's and should have jumped on it.

Looks like they stopped even marketing the 15" model in the US now (it is no longer listed on the Yamaha USA site)... here is a link to it for the overseas market (same one they have sold for years).

[ebb]

Thanks guys for the feedback.
(Craig, imagine importing a 8C two Stroke from Australia!!!! Only 55LBS!
I'd never guess they were illegal in Nevada.)


To stir the waters, so to speak,
and if you are interested, find the Whaler Continuous Wave site and see if you can find these threads:
New Montauk: Engine Flushing Procedure.
Earmuff vs Backflush
Silently Flush Your Outboard Engine.
This last thread is older but if you can pick it up talks about using earmuffs while the motor is on the boat and in the salt.
Inventor of the 'Backflusher' specific for sailboats also has a few posts'
The corrosion problem is the same for all even if these Continuous Wave guys have 90 and 150HP OBs. The discussion centers around whether earmuffs will work with a garden hose on and the motor running in the vertical position.

Here is a plausible drill:
Shut off motor.
Leave motor on boat.
Tilt motor up.
Install earmuffs.
Turn on water.
Tilt motor down.
Restart motor.
Run until peehole water is not salty.
Turn off water
Tilt motor and remove muffs..

This supposes that the fresh water source is under pressure.
And this is of some concern for the guys on the Whaler site.
These folks are slanted toward Mercs and Yammys, and there is no mention
of a 6 or 8HP OB.
( It looks like the Backflusher never made it to production. Typing 'backflusher' into google
gets you directly to the thread at ContinuousWave.)

[Orca]

My long shaft Tohatsu 6 worked pretty well but the zinc is so little that it was useless. After about two months on the mooring it was gone. This year I put bigger zinc by drilling through the captivation plate. At the end of the season I was bringing the boat over to the marina in a 30 knot wind when the motor failed (it kept running but raced as something went wrong with the prop or lower unit. It looks like the lower unit corroded through in a pinpoint hole. The bigger zinc method worked with my old outboard for 10 years so I'm not sure what happened. Looks like a $500 bill to buy a lower unit . . . not what I was expecting.

[c_amos]

My long shaft Tohatsu 6 worked pretty well but the zinc is so little that it was useless. After about two months on the mooring it was gone. This year I put bigger zinc by drilling through the captivation plate. At the end of the season I was bringing the boat over to the marina in a 30 knot wind when the motor failed (it kept running but raced as something went wrong with the prop or lower unit. It looks like the lower unit corroded through in a pinpoint hole. The bigger zinc method worked with my old outboard for 10 years so I'm not sure what happened. Looks like a $500 bill to buy a lower unit . . . not what I was expecting.

Wow!

I am sorry to hear this. Both for you, and for me! I sure hope you don't need a new lower unit, maybe it is just the pin?


I pull the motor out of the well now, but did not with the Yamaha (I sailed more days then i did not when I was in NC.)

The zinc issue is not for the daysailor, but for the cruiser (as I see it). When cruising, you are simply not likely to pull the motor each time you anchor.

Even if it were not difficult, it would not be advisable, sometimes things happen that you need the motor for on a 'dark and stormy night'.

My old Yamaha 6hp 2 stroke had a big zinc, and would be happy for 6 months in the water...

[ebb]

Finally dawned on me to take a look at the outboards in the garage.
There's a Seagull Silver Century, a SeaCraft 6 that came with A338, and the 4X8 Yamaha.
The earmuffs would have to be used with the Seacraft - and that's what had stuck in my brain - because I do remember running water through it at the dock.

The 2002 Yamaha has the (sliced bread) hose fitting screwed into a bracket beneath the hood.
You unscrew it and attach the garden hose to the female fitting which is on a short hose attached to the motor
Naturally I've mislaid the manual, but the forums above mention that it's OK to run fresh water through the motor when it's tilted. You must however be careful with the hose pressure.

ContinuousWave guys think that it's better to run fresh water through a running motor. They think that will desalt the whole motor best. But another guy will say the the engineers who designed it know what they are doing and that passive cleaning with the garden hose fitting through a non-running motor is just as good.

I couldn't argue. Desalting the motor mounted in place on the boat - NOT REMOVING IT - is buttering the sliced bread imco.
If and when the motor comes off, then run it in a tub.


ZINCs

I thought it was common practice to ground the whole OB with a large zinc attached to the boat under water near the OB.
The wire would be brought up to an unpainted point under the case. With our OB well, the wire would come up from a bolt on the zinc conveniently through the well. Where it is attached to the motor we should discuss.

That might be the answer to rampant corrosion that the smaller sincs attached to the OB can't handle.
Aren't they specific to the spot they are attached to?
They obviously can't do the job the whole OB zinc is supposed to.

Can we get concensus here?
Think it's really important.