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Thread: Commander 227

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Lutherville, Maryland (near Baltimore)
    Posts
    197

    rails

    Commander 227,

    I left you a private message regarding the stanchions and rails. Please check it out when you have the chance.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Excelsior, Minnesota
    Posts
    326

    Seasons over

    So sad, pulled The Princess out today. Last boat out.
    Onto the winter list;
    1, Replace compression post and shorty bulkheads with header, full bulkheads and a door to give the head more privacy. (like an Ariel)

    2, Replace porta-potie with real head.

    3, Install inboard motor, I absolutely hate the outboard in a well thing. I intended to install an Atomic 4 I have laying around, but now I am planning on a 48 volt Mars brushless electric motor set up. less weight, no noise, I moor at a dock with shore power so charging isn't a problem. it looks like I will get about 1.5 hours @ hull speed or 4-5 hours @ around 3 knots with 4 group 27 deep cycle batteries. I sail a 14,000 acre lake without tides or currents so don't need even that much range.

    4, Bottom job. We got most of the multiple layers of old paint off with the pressure washer when t was still soft after haul out. VC-17 seem to be the best choice in our climate and waters.

    5, Paint freeboard and decks. Fill in outboard well in the bottom and recore the aft deck without the outboard lazerette to further clean up the lines.

    6, Rudder post bearing is badly worn and sloppy as well as the rudder to shaft bolts.

    I'm toying with the idea of teak decks, hmmmm.... Am I missing anything?
    Attached Images  

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
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    1,439
    Quote Originally Posted by Commander227 View Post
    ...but now I am planning on a 48 volt Mars brushless electric motor set up. less weight, no noise, I moor at a dock with shore power so charging isn't a problem. it looks like I will get about 1.5 hours @ hull speed or 4-5 hours @ around 3 knots with 4 group 27 deep cycle batteries.
    Keep us updated and post lots of details on this one!
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Excelsior, Minnesota
    Posts
    326

    Winter sailing

    Here in Minnesota, as we put away our soft water boats, we start dreaming about the hard water sailing. Time to dust off the Iceboats.
    I get my winter sailing fix in my Skeeter. She'll do almost 80mph in a 25 mph wind.
    Attached Images  

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    720

    I am also VERY interested in your repower with the...

    electric motor. Can you give us some links to the equipment you plan on using?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    San Francisco - or Abroad
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by Commander227 View Post
    Onto the winter list;
    1, Replace compression post and shorty bulkheads with header, full bulkheads and a door to give the head more privacy. (like an Ariel)

    2, Replace porta-potie with real head.

    3, Install inboard motor, I absolutely hate the outboard in a well thing. I intended to install an Atomic 4 I have laying around, but now I am planning on a 48 volt Mars brushless electric motor set up.

    5, Paint freeboard and decks. Fill in outboard well in the bottom and recore the aft deck without the outboard lazerette to further clean up the lines.

    6, Rudder post bearing is badly worn and sloppy as well as the rudder to shaft bolts.

    I'm toying with the idea of teak decks, hmmmm.... Am I missing anything?
    Great project list!
    1.- Interesting approach on the bulkhead & door! Being aware of the privacy issue (with the girls) I put in a curtain on a bungy chord. Not nearly as private as a door, but it seems to work really well - and when not in use it keeps the cabin open, making it seem more spacious than it is...

    I wonder if the full bulkhead & door in the small cabin might make it a bit too prone to claustrophobia? Just a point to consider...

    2.- The electric motor sounds great! I am also interested in your progress. Although in SF bay being able to make it home against a current is critical. Hopefully we'll get there soon... I have been tinking about a tiny outboard just to get me in & out of the basin. No issues with currents in Marina Del Rey where I currently am.

    5.- A smooth aft deck will look amazing. Will you keep the space accessible from underneath, or close it up altogether? I saw the version of the lazarette space in the Alerion docked close to me which is smooth on top and looks great. But the space is open from the front, and I did not like the look of that at all... It is not visible on the water, but it is not attractive if you are on the boat - even if there is nothing piled-up in there...

    Any thoughts on colors? (No need to reveal - I'm Curious!)

    6.- Getting the rudder sorted out was the BEST bang for the buck as far as sailing goes. It just makes it so nice to have a solid feel on the tiller!

    With Teak decks 227 would be the prettiest out there!
    Last edited by Rico; 11-11-2008 at 07:13 PM.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Grand Haven / Muskegon, Michigan
    Posts
    616
    http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/s...4&postcount=15

    THAT is what a marina should look like! Not that I spend a lot of time lounging there, but Torresen - bless its little heart - looks like a dirty old truck stop. Maybe a good thing - if it looked like that, I might not leave the dock as often. Very appealing.

    I admire your dig-in-and-blast-it-out rennovation motivation! Wanna come fix my cracking deck paint/gelcoat?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Excelsior, Minnesota
    Posts
    326

    Private head

    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    1.- Interesting approach on the bulkhead & door! Being aware of the privacy issue (with the girls) I put in a curtain on a bungy chord. Not nearly as private as a door, but it seems to work really well - and when not in use it keeps the cabin open, making it seem more spacious than it is...

    I wonder if the full bulkhead & door in the small cabin might make it a bit too prone to claustrophobia? Just a point to consider...
    We use The Princess strictly as a day sailer, (or mostly a night sailer) as we live just 3 blocks from her slip. The only time we spend below decks is to use the head, pick a new playlist on the Ipod, or to fetch a fresh brewski. Oh and my wife wants a little counter space to prepare the cheese plates. I agree that the knee wall type bulkhead really makes the little cuddy seem spacious and I am hesitant to give up the open feeling, but a decent head is the biggest reason we moved from the Ensign to the Commander in the first place.

    I assume that it will be the same as a Ariel on the forward side of the bulkhead> Hey Ariel guys... how do you like your heads? I guess I should make some quick cardboard bulkheads and see if I like it.

    I also am thinking of bringing the companionway bulkhead all the way down to the bunks and sole so you can't see into the lazerettes, just to clean it up some. Maybe still have an access door.

    I will put up a post soon on my electric inboard plans.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Excelsior, Minnesota
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Dawg View Post

    THAT is what a marina should look like! Not that I spend a lot of time lounging there, but Torresen - bless its little heart - looks like a dirty old truck stop. Maybe a good thing - if it looked like that, I might not leave the dock as often. Very appealing.
    Thanks! Check us out at;http://shorewoodyachtclub.com

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    720

    Commander 227

    Have you checked out EVA, Inc.? This link is to the website and below is a quote that they gave me for the same kind of electric motor repower.

    http://www.ev-america.com/EVACatalog.html
    Attached Images  

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Excelsior, Minnesota
    Posts
    326

    Electric motor

    Willbe,
    My first intention was to go with a brushed shunt wound motor and controller. I figured I could pull them out of an old gulf cart or pick up something on the cheep from ebay. (I think the scrapping of a gulf cart is probably a pretty good way to go as you would get virtually everything you would need all in one shot and I think the performance would be acceptable.)
    I think however that if I'm going to go through all the work of designing and installing the system, I should spend a few bucks and buy shiny new things.
    I've decided to go with the Mars brushless motor, Sevcon PMAC 48 volt controller, Sevcon DC/DC converter to power the boat's 12 volt systems.
    I have not had a chance to look much into chargers yet.
    I'm 90% sure I'm going with Thunderstruck motors, for at least the main components.
    http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm
    This link brings you to a kit that is close to what I am planning to install, but I want a few different components and wish to make the wiring harnesses myself to get the neatest possible installation. Curtis makes a throttle Pot (wd-45)that goes 5 ohms-0 ohms-5 ohms so I won't need a fwd/rev switch, I can just move the throttle back for reverse and push forward for forward.
    The Mars brushless motor weighs only 24 lbs as opposed to 100 plus lbs for a shunt wound motor of equal power and the brushless motors are also quite a bit more efficiant as well as being maintanance free.
    The motor is actually A/C 3 phase and the controller converts the D/C power by sending pulses to the motor. This system is set up for regenitive braking, so the controller can be programmed to start charging the batteries once you get up around hull speed and free wheel before that.
    Many sites have the motor for about $450.
    About the same for the controller,
    Contactors, fuses, throttle pot, switches will probably add up to another $400.-$500.
    Unlike IC engines that have a narrow power band, the nature of electric motors is to have tons of low end torque. this system should not have any problem pushing my Commander around at hull speed, the only question is range. you need about 400 lbs of batteries to give you the same BTUs as 6 lbs of diesel fuel. Being I sail a inland lake and can charge from shore power at my dock, I am selecting batteries to give me one hour @ hull speed, (enough to get back from the bars and restaurants in Wayzata Bay fast, without going below 80% depth of charge) I would like to keep the weight down as much as I can. I should be able to keep the weight about the same as with the outboard, and way below the weight of the Atomic 4, fuel, engine battery & house battery.
    I dunno... it looks O.K. on paper. We'll see how it looks under the bright lights of reality.
    An article in the March/April Wooden Boat Magizine about a guy who built an electric launch is what got me going on this whole deal, after doing my own due diligence and research I re-read the article and found I had come up with pretty much the same system and components.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Scarborough, Maine
    Posts
    1,439
    Last edited by mbd; 11-10-2008 at 05:40 PM.
    Mike
    Totoro (Sea Sprite 23 #626)

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    720

    Electric repower

    Commander 227

    Do you have any idea how much electricity you can generate with the Sevcon PMAC 48 volt controller setup? Obviously the more you can generate the less battery weight you need to carry. I would really like to avoid needing 8 batteries. Going out long channels to get to deep water in the gulf makes my future repower a little more demanding than your inland lake sailing. I will also be looking at photovoltaics as a possible method of getting some juice back before I get back to the dock. The upside is you don't need wind to charge that way but the downside is you need a lot of them to get a significant amount of recharging capacity. Solar cell technology is improving by leaps and bounds and the problems may soon be overcome.

    I was unable to find the Curtis WD-45 throttle you mentioned. I found a WP-45 but it only works up to 30 volts. Can you give me a link to the throttle? Will it lock in the center so you don't accidentally bump it into forward or reverse? I guess a key switch would make bumping the throttle not a problem however.

    Have you given any thought to where you will locate the batteries? I would like to keep them as far forward as possible without making the cable excessively long.

    Will you use a folding prop or a fixed prop to maximise regenerating capability?

    Like you I hate using an outboard on my sailboat. I am determined to use an electric inboard drive. So when you have completed your repower I would like very much to fly up to see your setup. Would you be willing to show it off to me?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    720

    Smile Thanks mbd

    The more information the better.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Camden, NC
    Posts
    283
    Commander 227,
    Thank you for your prompt reply and for offering up your original clamshell vents and any of the rubber seal that you can salvage. That would be great if you would include the hinge sets too. One of my hinges has a break in it, but is serviceable. Both of them are a bit worn and loose, perhaps needing a larger pin?....., but if yours are in decent shape, I'll find them a new home on Ceili, #256. Here's my address: Chance Smith, 472 N. Trotman Road, Camden, NC, 27921. Thank you much for your assistance. Understand the wood screws will work for the winch base onto the wood islands, how about attaching the base of the islands to the deck? Would you do the same, use wood screws up from the underside of the deck, into the base? The only other way I see in doing it, would be to epoxy studs into the base, but then that would make hole alignment and drilling very tricky. Also wanted to mention, your work is remarkable, not to mention the berthing slips at your marina! I have already identified your aft profile of the coamings that you did, and will be doing much the same, much more shapely than the standard round down profile. Did you use teak or genuine mahogany? Where you able to find a single board that was wide enough to accomodate the height that is unique to Commanders?

    EBB,
    Yes, Capt. Bill did mention the Pearson seals, but said that an order would have to be made, and for that to happen, there would have to be enough interest from the association / members to justify the cost. I'm only (1), and I think the minimum order from who ever the supplier, is quite large. I have seen the other seal that you mention and that was identified by others but I really want to use that which Pearson utilized. The alternative, IMHO is not really a decent replacement.
    Thanks for your input and motivation. The two of you are incredible classic plastic owners with outstanding talent!
    Respectfully,
    Chance
    Respectfully,
    Chance Smith
    (Formerly) Sea Sprite 23 #760 (Heritage)
    (Formerly) Commander #256 (Ceili)

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