Outboard Discussions

[Scott Galloway]

Mike,

My local dealer (a marine yard) isn't sure that an alternator comes with the Nissan 6 hp four-stroke, and the Nissan Marine web page:
http://www.nissanmarine.com/products/6_4_specs.html

implies that it doesn't, because the 12V charging system space on the specification table on that page is left blank. I know that you have an alternator, so it would be interesting to know what year your motor was manufactured. How many amps does the alternator put out? The two-cylinder Yamaha 6 four-stroke puts out 6 amps.

And finally, does the issue Bill raised about the "upper exhaust port" apply to the Nissan 6hp four stroke? Does your motor choke if run in the lazarette with the top hatch closed?

[Mike Goodwin]

Mine is a 2002 , charging option was dealer installed factory supplied , I just checked the website and it is there 5a lighting/charging option .Its between weight and RPM range , not in the bullets .

http://www.nissanmarine.com/products/6_4_specs.html

I've run with the hatch down , but mostly keep it clipped to the backstay for quicker access . When underway , I keep the hatch above the tiller off and stowed below , also my motor well is rarely submerged .
I never see or smell the exhaust when under way.

[Hull376]

OOOh yea. The upper port exhaust issue. Also, I guess over the years, I've forgotten that outboards have a reverse gear. I began to think many years ago that the only way to move an Ariel backwards was to push it back from the dock and then watch which way the stern was going to go. Then hope you got enough space to gun the motor forward before the aft end hit something!

[Mike Goodwin]

The buckets are empty guys, of kitty litter anyway. They stow better than the round ones and fit right through the hatches in the seats . I have an endless supply of Fresh Step 33lb litter buckets, from my wife's co-worker.
They are also a legal marine head, if you have the tight fitting lid !

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks Mike,

I see the "lighting" option on the Nissan web page now.

"Optional: 12V 60W 5A"

So I guess that about wraps it up. I am looking forward to an engine that will swivel in place for backing purposes, although I had some success backing out of the slip with my former motor provided that no current was running. The key was backing slowly.

I modified the vertical hatch board behind my tiller to increase ventilation in the lazarette locker both at the dock and underway. A photo is attached. Incidentally, the tiller tamer fairleads and cleats were installed on the boat when I bought it, but the old tiller tamer was long gone. I bought and installed a new one shown in the photo. I discovered that although the device was functional, it was fragile in the configuration shown due to the extreme angle of the lines running from the device to the first fairlead. I could not see an easy way of changing this without drilling a bunch of new holes. I now use a knotted bungee cord run between the two cockpit-side mooring cleats and wrapped around the tiller, and that works just fine. I have a pile of stuff in a sack that someday I intend to use to make my own more durable device for securing the tiller.

Now about this kitty litter thing: The use of expired kitty litter containers is an interesting idea to aid in flushing the motor, but for crewed sailing I prefer a conventional porta-potti to a litter box. I can just imagine the faces on my crew members were I to pull a "Fresh Step" 33lb litter bucket from the locker in answer to the question, "Where is the head?"

Very amusing though.

[Mike Goodwin]

Scott,

I think you will like the 6hp with the options we have discussed ; long shaft, vertical start,alternator and the lower pitch prop . I am taking my stock prop and have pitched down even lower than the 7" , my dealer/mechanic says a 6" is even better . That way , my 7" becomes the spare and it's good to carry a spare .

[Theis]

One point about generating capacity. Some outboards (like the Yamaha) will generate almost the maximum amount at low throttle. Others generate electricty on a more linear basis relative to the RPM (like at least older OMC's). Something you might ask about.

The April 15 issue of Practical Sailor (and a recent prior issue) has a discussion about props on small outboards. For your convenience, I have entered the part from this issue:

PROPER OUTBOARD PROPPING

[Ed}We thought we'd run this valuable letter to follow up our recent discussion of outboard engine power in this column. The issue of prop size and pitch often plays second fiddle to other concerns, but it's central and we thank Mr. Below for covering it for us.

This is in response to Mr. Patrick Green's question about outboard power for a Pearson 26 [PS Advisor, February 15].

[Letter] I owned a 1975 P-26 for nearly 20 years (traded up to a 10-M in '99), cruising Long Island Sound and out to Nantucket. I acquired a '76 9.9-hp Johnson, 20" shaft with electric start, which I used for most of those years. I still own this engine.

The standard propellor for the Johnson was a 91/2" diameter by 10" pitch. This propellor did not allow the engine to reach its intended operating rpm, and as a result the engine fouled spark plugs and would not keep the battery charged. I quickly changed to the optional 10" x 5" "barge" propellor offered by OMC. This low-pitch propellor made all the difference. Plug fouling stopped, and the higher operating rpm allowed the alternator to keep the battery fully charged.

In 1995, I succumbed to the desire to own a more environmentally friendly four-stroke and purchased n 8-hp Honda manual start, 20" shaft. The stock Honda prop was 9" x 10", I believe, and did not allow the engine to reach its recommended operating rpm.

I switched to a 8 3/4" x 7" Michigan prop. This was a perfect match for the P-26. The engine ran great, and the 4 amp alternator was able to keep the battery charged. The Honda burned about half the fuel (and no oil), compared to the old Johnson.

My experience says that many people overlook the necessity for matching the propellor to their boat. It is absolutely crucial to allow engines, expecially older two-stro9ke outboards, to be able to reach their recommended maximum power at full throttle. This also holds true for mondern, high-rpm inboard diesels.

Dexter Below
Wilton, CT.

[Scott Galloway]

The pitch information confirms Mike's earlier post relating to prop pitch.

So far one of my potential vendors insists on delivering the motor with a 7.8" X 8" prop, and then proposes to sell me a second prop with a 7.8 X 7" prop for $59.00. The other doesn't know anything about prop options but has a call into the factory. It would seem rather odd if one couldn't order the prop one wants installed on the motor...and Nissan doesn't seem to sell a prop with a 6" pitch.

The charging system (I am told that it's actually a rectifier) on the Nissan 6 hp four-stroke motor seems to come with a $129 price tag, and as a kit that must be installed locally (dealer's labor rate is $85 per hour)... Installation requires removal of the flywheel.

Neither of my two Nissan vendors seems to have heard of the vertical pull-start feature. I am awaiting their further research on this feature.

Anyone know a good Nissan vendor in the S.F. Bay area?

[Theis]

The Yamaha also has a rectifier generator. If Nissan is like the Yamaha, make sure to disconnect it inside if you are using it without a battery - or you will burn up the rectifier. There should be a couple quick disconnects inside the motor leading to the generator once it is installed.

The rectifier for the Yamaha was also a dealer installed option. Most dealers either are incompetent or don't care. Look until you find one that knows what an outboard looks like. If they ask you if what they are pointing to is an outboard, it is probably a good sign to move on.

As for the prop, I experienced the same thing. Buy what is offered and the new prop will cost more was the sales pitch. However, sales are not booming right now, and you should be able to work a deal (as I did). Try going outside the immediate Bay Area. (I got my deal going two hours out) = They threw in the special prop, and a gas can (not the standard one).

What I didn't know when I bought the Yamaha is there is a separate catalog for extra accessories. You might ask for that, if you don't already have one, and if they have such an animal.

Good luck. What a delight it must be for those dealers to make money selling a product you don't know the first thing about - that is how I size up the Yamaha selling dealers as a group.

[Mike Goodwin]

Scott,
Look for a Nissan official repair shop and buy it from them. That is where I was told of all the options and paid much less than you are being quoted . I found a one man operation and am glad I did .
I paid $50 for the prop.
$178 for the alternator, installed .
Vertical start option was $75 , part #369B059110 & #3b2059120.

If they don't know of these options , then I would be real careful about dealing with them.

It comes with the stock prop , it is part of the package and you need a spare anyway .

[Mike Goodwin]

I found 9 sales/service centers within 60 mile radius of 94102 zip code .

http://www.nissanmarine.com/search/index.html

Go here , put in your zip and how far you will travel , then start calling .

[Scott Galloway]

Mike,

I played the zip code game on the http://www.nissanmarine.com/search/index.html website. I found a geographically proximate dealer. I am also working with an on-line vendor who specializes only on Nissan motors, but as I was attempting to relate in my earlier post, neither vendor seems to be aware of the vertical pull-start feature. The on-line vendor will not ship a Nissan 6 hp four-stroke motor with a 7" pitch prop. They tell me that they must ship me the 8" pitch prop and then bill me for an additional 7" prop at $59. The geographically proximate dealer has not yet told me that they can provide me with a motor with an alternator, rectifier, or whatever, nor whether they can provide me with an engine with a 7" pitch prop.

Furthermore, since they do not have a Nissan 6 hp four-stroke motor in stock, the geographically proximate dealer will bill me for shipping costs. They do have other Nissan's in stock, but not the 6 hp long shaft.

So I figured that perhaps someone in the S.F. Bay area might have specific experience with an alternative vendor from whom they might have purchased a similar engine. Otherwise, I will probably select geographically proximate dealer.

[Mike Goodwin]

Nissan ships with the 8" prop and that is what you get even if you order the 7" , you or the dealer has to install it .

Check for all the dealers within 100 mile radius and call them all, or as far as you are willing to drive!

If they combine the order (2 or more motors) there is no shipping costs according to my dealer.

As I said before , " if they are not aware of the options , they are probably not much of a dealer/service center" and don't talk to sales-persons , talk to the shop foreman. They are in sales because all they can do is BS in most cases.
The guy I got mine from answers the phone , sells the motors and fixes the motors .

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks Mike,

My dealer is a boat yard, and so the folks there are very knowledgeable about most things marine, but apparently they don't sell too many Nissan 6 hp four-stroke motors. I haven't had a call back from them since I asked for info on the charging, vertical pull cord, and prop options last Thursday.

I like to deal locally when possible, but I may have to look around a bit, or order on-line. A friend of mine had a good experience with http://www.nissan-outboards.com/
when he bought a new Nissan 6 hp four-stroke motor last fall.

Now the idea of ordering two Nissans at once to save shipping costs is intriguing. All I need now is two motor wells for my new twin 6 hp Nissan motor array.

[Theis]

That's an interesting way to get a two cylinder power plant.