Port frames, again

[Tony G]

I once wrote that while I may never take this boat to the sea shore I didn't want to do any thing that limited her from being sea worthy and capable of off-shore work.

Through bolts certainly would be the easiest, fastest and most secure route to take. But yet I kind of want to avoid that 'industrial' look. Yeah, I've seen alot of boats with them, and, they do have a certain rugged good look to them. But, I've seen alot of boats without them too. Boats with good off-shore pedigrees.

I do like the idea of pre-tapped stainless bar stock. No machining needed that I couldn't do here, at home. Does it even have to be stainless steel? After all, our port frames are made from aluminum, correct? How far do those port frame screws screw into that outside frame? How many screws hold those pieces together? I guess one could make a valid argument that the originals weren't really off-shore grade ( 'had to throw a face in there. I hadn't used one in so long )

I don't know why I want to extend the rebuild any longer than possible but I like the ideas floating around here. I'm goin' over to Ebb's thread to look around. Anybody here taken apart an Alden lately?

[commanderpete]

They sell different styles of barrel nuts, some flush.

http://www.shipstore.com/ss/html/BEC/BECBB25001.html

[Mike Goodwin]

I agree with Pete , barrel nuts all the way. Most Installations like this , the window is on the outside . I have installed and replaced a few dozen , all from the outside.

[ebb]

These are very cool fasteners. Very overpriced for my money, you're getting the female part only for 65 cents each (100) in chrome/brass. The 10/24 size requires a 1/4" hole to sit in and comes in a couple lengths like 3/8s and 1/2 inches long. You supply the male half.

Sailnet has a pack of 25 10/24 for $8.82 - don't know the length. But you ought to shop around. Jamestown has an 18/8 'stainless' version. At $2.23 a pop!

Since the original deadlights float in the hole between outside and inside frames that clamp together, it's hard to see how you could install the modern frameless slap-on-to-the-cabin-sides version with barrel nuts. Because you have to oversize the holes in the lex to allow for expansion/contraction movement. So you'ld have to go thru some kind of frame first with the correct size barrelnut holes. 338's frames were restorable, and I liked the floating principle of the light. It worked (sort of) even for glass.

The inside frame attached to the matching outside with tiny machine screws. Can't remember, but I mean tiny, like 4s or 5s that went into the blind holes in the outside frame (thru empty space that was more or less gooped with silicone) no more than an 1/8 of an inch. An engineering wonder. The whole unit is really not attached to the cabin sides except for the 'clamping' effect of the frames around no more than one quarter of an inch wide rim of cabin side and liner. Astonishing! The barrel nuts would be perfect with your own made frames with the light 'floating' in the hole.

I guess the Beckson "flush" barrel nut must be a panhead to allow you to apply a finish trim piece over the fasteners. Still have to do something with the head. On a Beckson installation they are probably snap on plastic rims that hide the heads. Normal finish trim would require fastners of its own: flathead screws.

Tony, if the outside frames were the ones that got corroded on your boat, maybe you can fabricate new surrounds out of thicker aluminum (1/4"?) plate. And replicate the original - good luck matching up the fastener holes and blind threading

[Should plan for the longer barrels so you don't have to cut the machine screws to length. That's what I mean: in the original windows those tiny screws had to be exactly right.]

[Tony G]

Yep, the barrel nuts are handy. I like the look on people's face when they realize that there is a screw head on both sides of a piece or panel. That's how I first discovered them. They are a nice, flush alternative to acorn nuts when it comes to the shins-and eyes, I might add.

Ironically, Ebb, the outside frames are in remarkably good shape. There must have been one helluva brawl inside from the looks the outer's partners. There were extra screws added with large washers capturing both halves of the breaks. Tons of sealant. Did I mention all of the sealant? The one good inside frame I use as a pattern to get a graceful curve to carry through on the funiture.

I want to avoid doing any 'outside' machining as I'm turning into a cheap skate (which always means I'll spend more money in the end). I do appreciate everyone's input on the matter. I'm going to sit on this one for a while yet.

[ebb]

Hey Tony,
as you know, I thru drilled the original frames on 338 and countersunk the outside frames where the new holes appeared to take a flat head. You could use the barrel nut with its oval head on the inside and use a flathead machine screw like I'm going to do - because they will sit flat and unimportantly in the roundness of the frame. If the inside frames are truly history then why not make them up out of aluminum or even teak? I think I would find something harder. But with a little trickery you could get the panheads on the barrel nuts to be almost flush too.

One other thing: all Ariel deadlight frames inside and out are exactly the same pattern shape Only because of the tiny screws going into blind holes is there handedness, and pairing, and there's inside/outside. But the point is that the eight frames could be cut, routed, or otherwise manufactured with a single pattern. Could be simplified totally if you thru bolted with a floater. Now I'ld be tempted to cut them out of phenolic mahogany marine ply and paint them, hell they might varnish up real nice too.

You can rabbet the edges of the frames so that they go into the hole a bit to hold whatever thickness glass just so. The original frames do that too. But absolutely nothing holds them to the cabin side. Made frames would be wider and would thrubolt to the other THRU the cabin liner and side. About a thousand times stronger.

[c_amos]

Ooooohhhhhhhooooo!

That sounds nice.

Now I'ld be tempted to cut them out of phenolic mahogany marine ply and paint them, hell they might varnish up real nice too

[commanderpete]

More design ideas here.

Don't even need curtains