Wait a minute folks, we have a late entry here. #6) separate the head liner from the cabin side a good half inch, then fill the space with a good, stout mixture of epoxy-milled glass-cabosil. Reshape the outside edge with a rounded chamfer to allow drainage. Seal the plexi/lexan to the inside and mount it with screws tapped into the epoxy mix surrounding the opening.
Sorry, this one was so fast I didn't get a chance to use any color.
Tony -
I like that idea. The only reservation I would have would be the strength of the screws tapped into epoxy. Thinking of it from an ocean-sailors point of view, it would be better/stronger to glass a nut into the area between liner and cabintrunk side, or a small, pre-tapped piece of SS bar stock. If the deadlight took the force of a boarding wave, I'd want it to be able to hold on tight.
#370's frames look to be in good shape, but until I (attempt to) remove them, I guess I won't know for sure if they are. Your idea seems eminently workable, and a good alternative to other thoughts I've had about the frames. Thanks!
PS - Remember #248, the neglected and abused Ariel I posted about a month or so ago? I needed a part for my old boats diesel, and that yard was the only place around that it was available. While there, I mentioned to the yard owner about buying #248 for the parts of her which still have life - spar, boom, deadlight frames, cleats, etc... His price was high enough that I dismissed the idea, but if others are interested in the parts, maybe I should work a deal with him?
Last edited by CapnK; 01-30-2005 at 08:55 AM.
Tony, briefly,
If done carefully and with the correct goop/caulk, bolting the lexan right to the cabin sides and THRU the cabin sides is the way to go, if the original frames are not restorable and we're not going to wait for the bronze Triton patterns to magically appear.
If you choose 1/2" smoked lexan and thru bolted it to Prefilled sides and then crafted a nice wood frame around inside, you would have a bluewater worthy installation with lots of light and much less claustrophobia than the smaller and heavier looking opening ports. Those 4 large deadlights add a lot to the open feeling of the cabin.
You could leave the outside modern with the edge of the lexan showing and bolt heads or machine screws in those cupped washers or make covering wood frames here too. Filling the cabin liner space nets out 1/2" fill, maybe enough to 'lag' the fasteners. It's rediculously easy to make a pattern and rout the dead lights perfect. Or you can have a shop do it, getting them to melt the edge to a flawless perfection.
Whatever you decide make certaing you can pull them 7 years down the line, or sooner if they develop a leak. Which they won't, of course!
I think I'm trying to say that the thrubolted lexan becomes structural with this method. The frames cosmetic.
I'm always reminded of the 'Smeaton Effect' where when you take blue water aboard anything sticking up is likely to get SHEERED off. If your deadlight is held on with a dozen #12 flathead machine bolts and it sticks out 1/2" from the cabin side, I can't see them getting peeled off. Thru bolt!
Last edited by ebb; 01-30-2005 at 12:51 PM.
I once wrote that while I may never take this boat to the sea shore I didn't want to do any thing that limited her from being sea worthy and capable of off-shore work.
Through bolts certainly would be the easiest, fastest and most secure route to take. But yet I kind of want to avoid that 'industrial' look. Yeah, I've seen alot of boats with them, and, they do have a certain rugged good look to them. But, I've seen alot of boats without them too. Boats with good off-shore pedigrees.
I do like the idea of pre-tapped stainless bar stock. No machining needed that I couldn't do here, at home. Does it even have to be stainless steel? After all, our port frames are made from aluminum, correct? How far do those port frame screws screw into that outside frame? How many screws hold those pieces together? I guess one could make a valid argument that the originals weren't really off-shore grade( 'had to throw a face in there. I hadn't used one in so long
)
I don't know why I want to extend the rebuild any longer than possible but I like the ideas floating around here. I'm goin' over to Ebb's thread to look around. Anybody here taken apart an Alden lately?
They sell different styles of barrel nuts, some flush.
http://www.shipstore.com/ss/html/BEC/BECBB25001.html
I agree with Pete , barrel nuts all the way. Most Installations like this , the window is on the outside . I have installed and replaced a few dozen , all from the outside.
These are very cool fasteners. Very overpriced for my money, you're getting the female part only for 65 cents each (100) in chrome/brass. The 10/24 size requires a 1/4" hole to sit in and comes in a couple lengths like 3/8s and 1/2 inches long. You supply the male half.
Sailnet has a pack of 25 10/24 for $8.82 - don't know the length. But you ought to shop around. Jamestown has an 18/8 'stainless' version. At $2.23 a pop!
Since the original deadlights float in the hole between outside and inside frames that clamp together, it's hard to see how you could install the modern frameless slap-on-to-the-cabin-sides version with barrel nuts. Because you have to oversize the holes in the lex to allow for expansion/contraction movement. So you'ld have to go thru some kind of frame first with the correct size barrelnut holes. 338's frames were restorable, and I liked the floating principle of the light. It worked (sort of) even for glass.
The inside frame attached to the matching outside with tiny machine screws. Can't remember, but I mean tiny, like 4s or 5s that went into the blind holes in the outside frame (thru empty space that was more or less gooped with silicone) no more than an 1/8 of an inch. An engineering wonder. The whole unit is really not attached to the cabin sides except for the 'clamping' effect of the frames around no more than one quarter of an inch wide rim of cabin side and liner. Astonishing! The barrel nuts would be perfect with your own made frames with the light 'floating' in the hole.
I guess the Beckson "flush" barrel nut must be a panhead to allow you to apply a finish trim piece over the fasteners. Still have to do something with the head. On a Beckson installation they are probably snap on plastic rims that hide the heads. Normal finish trim would require fastners of its own: flathead screws.
Tony, if the outside frames were the ones that got corroded on your boat, maybe you can fabricate new surrounds out of thicker aluminum (1/4"?) plate. And replicate the original - good luck matching up the fastener holes and blind threading
[Should plan for the longer barrels so you don't have to cut the machine screws to length. That's what I mean: in the original windows those tiny screws had to be exactly right.]
Last edited by ebb; 01-31-2005 at 03:03 PM.
Yep, the barrel nuts are handy. I like the look on people's face when they realize that there is a screw head on both sides of a piece or panel. That's how I first discovered them. They are a nice, flush alternative to acorn nuts when it comes to the shins-and eyes, I might add.
Ironically, Ebb, the outside frames are in remarkably good shape. There must have been one helluva brawl inside from the looks the outer's partners. There were extra screws added with large washers capturing both halves of the breaks. Tons of sealant. Did I mention all of the sealant? The one good inside frame I use as a pattern to get a graceful curve to carry through on the funiture.
I want to avoid doing any 'outside' machining as I'm turning into a cheap skate (which always means I'll spend more money in the end). I do appreciate everyone's input on the matter. I'm going to sit on this one for a while yet.
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