Navigation Lights

[ebb]

pbryant, referring to your post at #143, on this page...

In keeping with Colregs special dispensations granted to under 12 meter vessels.... the proportionate math for the separation of vertical all-rounds is also entirely reasonable for a 2NM permitted navigation light vessel of 8 meters... in length....under sail.
It is in keeping with the spirit of the Rules, and with the urgency of identifying smaller moving sailboats in a variety of hairy conditions.

However, if the meter separation between green and red all-rounds is adhered to by all who choose to exhibit sailboat exclusive R.O.G.,
the amount of separation seen by another ship can be used to guesstimate distance from the observer to the sailboat. Wider the separation, the
closer the sailboat - closer red and green appear together, the further the boat is from observer. I'll do the full meter on litlgul's mast.
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{This can be skipped for the reason given in the next section}
CREATING ALL-ROUND ON THE MAST
Assume that incandescents are obsolete, and LED is the light source of choice. Expensive - and ridiculously expensive.
However, LED light has much going for it: Durable long lasting life - 20,000 to 100,000 hours. More compact sizes. Much less current draw. Smaller wires. And if designed well, tolerates a sodium cloride environment.
For navlights up the mast, those risky trips to fiddle with light bulbs are done for. LEDs arrived and are here to stay.
They have also been around awhile, hopefully making them more reliable. If the light goes, the whole expensive 'light engine' must be replaced.

{Deleted section here about Attwood's 'reasonably priced' 2" round Wall mount red and green sidelights rated for 50,000hrs with a 10yr warranty.}

It finally occurred to self to find out if these sidelights are CE approved.
No knowledgeable vendors - finally got through to Attwood.
The bottom third of this post has been replaced:
DO NOT USE THESE ATTWOOD LED SIDELIGHTS on your mast with VHF antenna.

LEDs on a boat need expensive switching drive circuits that operate at high frequencies - and must maintain very high slew rates.
Can't give you a definition of slew as I'm unplugged, but it has to do with the maximum rate of change in voltage output.
The manufacturer of better LEDs must add more complicated design to his 'light engine' to offer EMI mitigation.
Blocking electromagnetic interference comes at a cost...to us.
Attwood 3570-7 2NM vertical sidelights do not have CE certification.

We cannot ring the mast with these LEDs. What off-the-shelf LED lamp can be used? Haven't a clue.

The salesman I talked with at Attwood said a "quiet design was deliberately left out", or more likely considered an unnecessary expense. Hence their 'attractive' price at $77 a pair. ASSUME THIS ATTITUDE EXTENDS TO ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTS.
Until confirmed otherwise these LEDs are a big potential problem interacting with VHF radio, antenna and other electronic devices like solar controllers. http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.co...d.php?t=154064 ....VHF Noise Suppression {no Attwoods here}
Did you know that compliance with FCC Part 15 and the CE "Is primarily based on the honor system."
Other problems: the salesman couldn't tell me about: how short the wire tails are, no links to a manual, no country of origin
Imco, these are not genuine navigation lights.

There are some Hella Compact Sidelights 2.79"l x 2.09"W x 1.29"H (CE unknown) 4 sets $720 among a bunch of vertical nav sisdelights on the market. What WAS most attractive about the Attwood is the circular footprint, one dimensional 2"D and their spherical 1" height. Really too bad Attwood did not go the extra nautical mile and give their sidelights global status. Their hype states that the lamps exceed USCG requirements. Not stated as an approval.
Defender presents AquaSignal 2NM Series 33 LED vertical sidelights with a dimension diagram: 2.68"L x 2"W x 2.05"H.
I'll be using these at hull level on LittleGull. Their more than double volume (compared with Attwood 3570-7) would look stramge anywhere on the mast, imco, and the elongated footprint would make them awkward, if not impossible, to position on the mast curves. They were never meant for masts, anyway. Approvals: BSH, USCG, IMO COLREGS, GL, RINA, ABYC A-16, CE. World Class, wouldn't you say?? We hope these AS Series 33 lamps are world class dependable.
CE is a mandatory EU logo used to indicate a device conforms to EMC Directives and is similar to US FCC Declaration of Conformity.
ALSO, look for the International Protection Code on LED. IP65 is 'weatherproof'. But IP68 is the highest rating for protection against dust intrusion (6). Highest mark for continuous water intrusion (submersion) is (8) and is called 'waterproof'.
$77 for the Attwood pair. $90 for the AquaSignal. Can't find any current navigation sidelights to use at mast top.
Attwood shaves $13 and ends up selling a toy - rather than the dependable safety device a navigation lamp has to be.

No R.O.G.s in this BOG.

[ebb]

Seems like this exchange here has stopped.

Have decided not to use any off-shelf LED navigation lamps for all-rounds at mast-top.

Will be using Waterproof LED Flexible Light Strips.

Have located FCC/CE IP68 strips installed (per Colregs r.o.g.) on a SFBay Triton.

Nufsaid. Later.
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Two person or singlehanded offshore night sailing wisely suggests reefing the mainsail.
A 4' luff reef would expose enough mast for meter separation between all-round
red at mast top and all-round green 39" below.

[Lucky Dawg]

Anyone know the size of the steaming light festoon bulb? Not finding it in discussion topics or the manual. Replacing my incandescent with LED. I can climb a ladder and investigate, but I thought I'd ask the collective brain trust for a replacement part size / model if anyone knows...

I found these 12v A15 size LED bulbs to replace the incandescents in the cabin wall fixtures. Don't know if my fixtures are stock or replacements. With shipping, the bulbs are $20 each (yeow!!) but I like the minimal battery draw.

[roythomas]

What is a festoon?

[ebb]

p bryant. Give this guy your full attention. Ebb is way too wordy and gets confused.
It's the end of the year almost -- I feel like this one, 2021, deserves a big boot, but
there are many confused and destructive souls around that only time can cure. At
the moment even a mutating virus is smarter than science.

MAST HEAD LIGHT CONFUSION
So I won't mention Colregs or IRPCS.

What is a steaming light? It is a FORWARD FACING NAV LIGHT.
It is not an ALL ROUND. It is a WHITE light displaying a 225 degree
forward facing arc. All boats have this light including freighters.
Sailboats have the same light so they are able to legally power
at night without using their sails. Along with a 360degree allround
tricolor at the top of a mast OR a spread of three red, green, and
white navigation lights at deck level. Never both at the same time.
At deck level We have red/green sidelights as a bi-color in the pulpit
and/or at the cabin's aft corners - also never lit at the same time.
The pulpit combo light even at IP67 is vulnerable and exposed.
Redundant side lights seems prudent..


Sailboats use the term 'mast head light' for a 225degree navlight
found above deck level usually mounted on the mast. We could use
a white stern light up there, but it would not be appropriate. These
days the forward facing light is combined with a down facing white
spot light. It is not a navigation light. At night it lights up the
foredeck (and messes with your night vision). And legally would not
be on at the same time as the steaming lamp.


How to keep this straight? Simple.. Consider and spell it

'mast HEADLIGHT',

like your wheels. That would arrange the other spelling as MASTHEAD
light. No single light we have nav lights up there ljke the tri-color,
port - stbd - stern - allround white light called ANCHORlight - never
used when the vessel is moving. We do NOT have a legal navigation
masthead light. You
certainly can call the tricolor mast-top a single fixture (sometimes the
combo nav light that sometimes may include the allround white anchor
lamp.) But mast headlight is better reserved as navigation
nomenclature for a forward facing white lamp of a vessel UNDER POWER.

And that is why a mast headlight is not at the mast head (mast top).


There is a movement afloat to sail at night offshore with
RED OVER GREEN,
allround nav lights that pbryant is a proponent. He has posted here and
elaborated on a Cruising site how to wire and switch the system. Serious
cruisers are unanimous in NOT obeying the single tricolor on a dark hull
directive. If you will, they say it's at your peril. But it is the current rule..
If you insist, I suggest for our boats a 3NM tricolor..

I've now gone with MARINEBEAM 3.5" x 3" plastic IP67 navlights. At the
moment I'll go with the redundancy of having a red/green bicolor in the
pulpit and a 2nd set on the cabin-trunk sides where the originals were.
Creative mounting require4d. $89 ea. 2021.
I chatted with mb & asked him if they had a R.O.G. in the works.. Nope.
They will have to come up with something soon, there's $$$ to be made
there. imco, in a dark & stormy night it's preferable to be lit up like a truck.
Marinebeam wld be reasonable and do it right.

pbryant has a solution that makes sense. He has mounted two allround
greens about a meter down his mast on the opposite port & starboard
sides when lit up throw enuf green to look green all round -- and with
the single red allround on the mast-top passes for R.O.G. (Green has double
the lumens but the red is in the alpha spot.) His single 3 position toggle
switch solution exists here or on the Cruising site, he hasn't revealed whose
allrounds he used. At night we'd probably have a reef in the main -- sure
I would! [This toggle switch is intuitive. Will find & record it here.]


MOST IMPORTANT.. we in R.O.G. at the same time are allowed to have our
DECK LIGHTS ON. And the ability to indicate the vessel's length with pulpit
and stern lights seems prudent. Red over Green, with its unique separation,
is instantly recognizable by professionals as a sailboat under sail.

R.O.G. is for an offshore boat under sail at night. Personally, sailing r.o.g.
I wld have the pulpit bi-color on, the cabin mounted green and red off,
and stern light on. And the r.o.g. instantly registers with the lookout
size, type, direction, location and speed of the interloper. If lookout on the
other vessel isn't responding, I'd probably use a wildly agitated spotlight.
Or a flare!~!


Some time ago evidently I followed thru on this & lo found in my stash 3
allround HELLA LAMPS: two green, one red. Base is 3", stand-out about
3", which is a stretch for an apparent single lamp 3"+mast 3.5"+3". 2NM
- LED - CE - 9-33V. Found inside the blister-pac: IP67. $105.99 ea. 6/2018.


Take care..