Navigation Lights

[mbd]

Maybe in the few years between our boats they, changed a manufacturer or something. If you look closely at the pic, it looks like C-Pete's old housing has a wider top dome than the new one, which is what mine would look like. I'm sure with a little working, it could be made to fit. But if I'm going to do that, I should just rework mine down to bronze and let someone else enjoy a beautiful NEW bronze stern light fixture then can just install and enjoy.

I edited my post above to say, "It doesn't quite fit MY original glass dome"...

[Lucky Dawg]

Must be an anomoly in the search function. I've searched for LED and it comes up with no results. I'm certain that there is a string that Rico contributed to on LED specifics, including sources for replacement bulbs.

So, here is a string dedicated to LED lighting and upgrades from original navigational lighting.

Hoping to do some upgrades to LED. Would be interested in specific recommendations for our yachts.

[Rico]

Hey Kyle,
The search function does not like search terms with less than 4 letters...

-Look twds the end of the thread for final solutions. It is easy (Plug & play) and there is no reason NOT to convert over to LEDs.

[ebb]

That's what I ended up with. It's actually listed as a Masthead / Foredeck Light. Why?

So here it is apart on the kitchen table.
It's 5.5" long and divided in half top and bottom in a half round tube-like form that stands out 2 1/2" - with a full fresnel style plastic lens on top.
Meauring the bulbs for LED replacement. The 1 3/4" festoon bulb, which looks like a pointy-end fuse has this LED replacement source:
marinebeam.com - cone-end festoon with 30 LEDs, FS-42-30C. 160WW lumens, 270mA/3.2W. $29.95.
This is the upper steaming light, and is found on most boats about halfway up a mast, Thinking of mounting it just above the spreaders. (No spreader lights planned.)

The decklight halogen bulb is a miniature bayonet, single point, listed as a BA9s. Bayonet style / 9mm diameter base / single point. 12V/10W. Total length a little over an inch.
To illuminate the foredeck from 15ft above the deck, this wee bulb would have to smoke. But assuming there's enough to see by, the modest illumination hopefully won't destroy any nightvision.
Wonder what appropriate candelas are for a LED replacement?

This halogen part of the combo fixture is exposed. The uncovered bulb sits in the center of a 2"diameter metal bowl reflector in the bottom of the fixture. The bulb is protected within the 'shroud' of the housing. Water won't directly invade the electrics inside, but still this AquaSignal design is very open to moisture and corrosion.
To access the inside for wiring and festoon bulb replacement two long #6MS hold the housing and steaming light lens to the base. However the halogen bulb must first be taken out of the reflector. It gets pushed into the spring-loaded socket and turned to release it, at which point the bulb drops out. After the bulb is removed the housing can be tilted forward and taken off the base. The little 20W bulb, when in its socket, is easy to remove as most of the bulb is exposed for a two-finger grab. This means that the electrics are also right there at the hole.*

Obviously the open bottom design helps disapate the heat of the halogen, and would do the same for a replacement LED cluster bulb.
marinebeam.com BA9S 15-LED Replacement Miniature Bayonet. BA-9S-15. 90WW lumens. 1.3W/100mA $15.

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* Paid list price for this AquaSignal Steaming/Foredeck Light. The black plastic is fiberglass impregated nylon. I think the thin metal parts are all s.s.
The molding is clean and sharp, the cosmetic design is trim and compact and is the reason I went for it. As an exposed electrical fixture in a sodium chloride environment, out of five stars I'd award it one, or half of one star. That makes it an expensive piece of safety gear.
When you need it, the lights MUST function. There is a skinny EPDM gasket around the festoon compartment inside. When the housing is cinched up the acrylic lens makes a seal. The lens is factory installed dry in the housing and seems non-removable. The light is open at the back where the base attaches to the mast. Be interesting to see what a shot from a waterhose would do. The housing is not gasketed to the base.
I'm thinking that butyl tape or black 3M Weatherban should be used in an attempt to weather strip all parts of the fixture when installed. Liberal use of TefGel and some kind of dielectric grease for the electric points of contact. Any recommendations?

[pbryant]

One thing to be very careful of is radio frequency interference (RFI) produced by many LED lights. The LEDs themselves aren't the culprit, it's the switching power supplies incorporated into the lights to allow operation over a wide voltage range: often 9 to 32 volts. It turns the LEDs into "all band transmitters."

There really aren't any standards for RFI emissions from LED lights here in the US. We've got FCC Rules Part 15, but the FCC is too afraid of the screams of "jackbooted government thugs" from Tea Party Deregulation Nutcases to enforce it on the multitude of companies selling LEDs. The Europeans are ahead of us in certifying LEDs, so if the light has a "CE" emblem on it, it's likely to be much quieter than anything sold here in the US of A. All the stuff is made in China, but the Europeans make sure they add a 3 cent capacitor to kill the noise.

After installing an LED on your vessel, try this test. 1) Tune in a weak station on your VHF, the weather frequencies are a good choice. Pick a weather station that is weak. Now turn on your LED. If the station suddenly disappears or is covered by static, you've got a noisy LED that may prevent you from hearing stations on your VHF when you really need to. If the LED is really noisy, it might also wipe out your cell phone in a weak coverage area (like out on the water). Then you've got a choice: lights, radio, but not both.

I overheard a fisherman at Pillar Point testing the VHF radio one night recently: "Radio check, radio check." People were responding, but he kept on calling. I walked over to his slip and said: "Hey, nice LEDs on your boat. Real bright. Good for picking up crab pots in the dark. Got rid of those old halogens, did you? You wanna turn those LEDs off a minute and do another radio check?" That worked. He couldn't hear the Harbormaster responding from 300 feet away with the boat's massive LED array powered up. Thereafter ensued a 10 minute conversation about RFI and LEDs.

I've been a licensed commercial radio operator for 40 years and I can't express in words how aggravating it is to see the radio spectrum being wiped out by cheap LEDs. Pretty soon, only the Europeans will be able to use their radios.

[ebb]

Captain pbryant.
I've advanced ignorance of anything electric beyond toggle switches.

Want nothing but led lighting on my Ariel. Don't believe there is an alternative.
Led seems to be where we are headed. Soon other forms of making light by wire will be obsolete.

Maybe the VHF has to change?

Does it look like this is happening?
What other choices for communication is happening?

Is it wiring that causes the problem or only the diodes or both?
Is there a way of shielding or containing the led switching chips from broadcasting RFI?
Lead shielding. Potting. Isolating ideas.
Source for CE certirfied products and lighting? Are these really protected with a 3cent capacitor?

My house is 100% led - so there are dozens of transformers everywhere - phones and media reception seems unaffected. But often have to step outside to answer cellphone. House has a metal roof.

Is there an RFI clean way to install marine wire and toys?
Should I even bother to run coax in the mast to a VHFantenna?
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Just went to a marine led site. (MarinePro) They sell Hella, Imtra, AquaSignal, Lalizas bulbs (all European, I presume)
No mention of CE (RFI) protection.
Why wouldn't CE certified be a selling point in this country?
These are of course 'replacement' blubs, se maybe they're Made In China? Another bloody caveat emptor, damit!

[pbryant]

Captain pbryant.
I've advanced ignorance of anything electric beyond toggle switches.

Want nothing but led lighting on my Ariel. Don't believe there is an alternative.
Led seems to be where we are headed. Soon other forms of making light by wire will be obsolete.

Maybe the VHF has to change? Not until the Federation of Planets approves subspace communications or we learn how to modulate gravity waves. By then, our boats will be powered with dilithium crystals.

Does it look like this is happening? Sure. In geological terms, another thousand years is only an eye blink away.
What other choices for communication is happening? None that I can foresee. You can always try Morse Code by signal light...

Is it the wiring that causes the problem or only the diodes? Neither, though the wiring can act as an antenna, making the problem worse. The problem is caused by the switching regulators installed in the LED lamp housing - inside the lamp base. Unless federal regulators force them to filter the supplies (not done here in the US), the switching supplies act like spark-gap transmitters -- which were outlawed nearly 100 years ago because they too wiped out the entire RF spectrum. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark-gap_transmitter.
Is there a way of shielding or containing the led switching chips from broadcasting RFI? Filtering: yes. Shielding is less effective. You can wrap the lamp in aluminum foil - but until someone invents transparent aluminum, it defeats the purpose.
Lead shielding. Potting. Isolating ideas. See above.
Source for CE certified products and lighting? Are these really protected with a 3cent capacitor? Source: Anything marketed in the EU with a "CE" emblem. ]The European Community has set RFI standards for LEDs. The US effectively has not. There are several cheap ways to greatly diminish the RFI - but only in manufacture - not retrofits, including adding a filter capacitor to the switching supply. But the manufactures don't bother where it isn't required -- the US. I suppose they think greed is good.

My house is 100% led - so there are dozens of transformers everywhere - phones and media reception seems unaffected. But often have to step outside to answer cellphone. House has a metal roof. Household LEDs don't usually have the same noisy DC-to-DC switching supplies built into the lamps. But you might try an experiment: Turn all the LEDs off and see if your cell phone suddenly works.

Is there an RFI clean way to install marine wire and toys? Until the US requires certification, all you can do is in sutu testing: install the light, test it, if it wipes out your radios replace it with something else. Retest. Or look for the European "CE" certification. I've had to return half the LEDs I've tested. Some of the cheapest ones are the quietest. If you place an LED near your VHF antenna (like a tricolor at the masthead), it needs to be VERY quiet. There is no workaround because of its proximity to the antenna.

See embedded replies above...

[ebb]

If I hadn't collapsed with laughing, the pain would have been too much!.

[captcraig]

Hey Ebb, I purchased some LED bulbs for my original perko nav lights and hope to change the cabin light bulbs to LED bulbs soon. I took my glass red, green, and clear lens off and soaked them in vinegar to get some of the minerals off and that worked pretty well. Looking forward to low energy consumption. Replaced my old #68 bulbs with the 9000425 from Dr. LED. Interesting that the led bulbs have to be colored even when they are behind a colored lens.

[Lucky Dawg]

LEDs are nice!

(Posting from my phone. This image might be enormous!)

[captcraig]

Have always regretted not stopping by on the way home home with A157. I was up in Traverse 2 days longer than expected and had no time to waste getting home. The water was so clear I couldn't believe it. One of the guys said you could see down 50' just a 1/4 mile out from the marina.

[captcraig]

Kyle, are those the original fixtures?

[Lucky Dawg]

Wish you'd have stopped in! I'd love to sail with another Alberg-ian! Open invitation to anyone onboard. (vw4kw at yahoo dot com)

Yes, all original. The LEDs plugged and played no problemo. I will keep looking for my supplier. I can't remember who it was - sorry. If I remember correctly, I used the guidance of Rico's (s/v Mephisto Cat) posts and his source. I'll search and see if I can find it.

Still looking - actually - for 2 appliance size A15 LED bulbs for the two interior fixtures. Harder to find than you might think. Maybe someone here knows a source?

Went to the Grand Rapids Boat Show this weekend - stink boat's aplenty - and was intrigued with rope LED lighting used in many modern day boats. I didn't think of it so much for looks, but for utility in hard to reach areas of our boats that a little bright-lighting might be advantageous. There is everyday lighting, and there is full-on house lights that illuminate every nook and cranny of the ship.

[captcraig]

I ordered some bulbs from Dr. LED, kind of pricey but a little cheaper than West Marine. I think the green goes on the starboard side. Dr. LED has the household size sockets in the 12v. www.doctorled.com When I was up in Traverse the travel lift broke and I had to sit tight until they had it fixed. There were a some other issues as well but not worth going into. Hope to go up and visit the old owner of A157 this year. He was the nicest guy I've ever met. Took incredibly good care of the boat.

[Lucky Dawg]

See LED discussion for part numbers at http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussi...igation-Lights - it is a couple pages, but good reading.

(As has been discussed here previously by Bill, et al. ... and with all due respect to the website's functionality.... searching google with "site: pearsonariel.org LED" or whatever you are looking for after pearsonariel.org (e.g. site: pearsonariel.org peanut butter) is a much more fruitful search option than using the search option here.)