Navigation Lights

[ebb]

C'pete,
The Hella lantern has the tri-light in the prescribed separations: green - red - and white stern running light - with a seen from dead ahead separation of the red and green. A slight blank space.

It also has, SEPARATE from the tri-color combo, an ALL ROUND WHITE, on top of the combo. It is a separate light but in the same lantern. This light would NEVER be turned on while the tri-color was being used. And viceversa.

Being an all round light, and UNABSTRUCTED by mast or sails,
I have seen, have downloaded, diagrams like yours above here that show this all round white (USCG Regs) USED AS A STEAMING LIGHT ON A SAILBOAT (but with sails not rigged) when the motor is running.
Imco it would be 'more' legal' than a half mast steaming light that would have 1/3, at least. of the all round requirement obstructed by the mast it is mounted on.
And in a twilight ballet of getting the boat into its berth without running into something, no reg could possibly care if the rags are up or furled. Never know, tho.

Your series of graphics don't show this. And since the tri-color option is relatively new (what, 20 years by now?) the Coast Guard may not have their diagrams up to date. Besides the all round white steaming/anchor light may be stuck in some internal committee and is left in its fuzzy status for decades to come.


Perhaps by sailor use the added FOURTH light on the masthead of a sailboat will become written into regulation. It seems to be allowed by inference and some 'quasi-official' diagrams.

The all round white is already wired on some lanterns as a STROBE light. On the highseas, day or night, with an approaching freighter, switching the strobe on to get attention might save your and your boat's butt.
Regs might someday be rewritten to include emergency scenarios like this as emergencies. Using the strobe to get the attention on the bridge of a cargo freighter. Fat Chance! Radio contact with the freighter would call off any rescue effort or USCG notification that assitence was not needed. If that is the case.

The all round anchor light from a practical aspect has to be stacked on the masthead above or below the tricolor if we have one. Cruisers forums often mention that they can recognize their boat at night - when away from it - by their all round led.
This anchor light can also be found with a PV Sunset On/Sunrise Off feature.

[commanderpete]

I think the problem with using an anchor light/tricolor combination is that the regulations require at least one meter vertical seperation between the all-around white light above the red/green sidelights.

You might be able to use the anchor light as a steaming light with red/green deck lights, but only if you block out the stern deck light. Otherwise a boat approaching from behind will see two white lights "white over white"

[ebb]

C'pete, I finally see what you are getting at.

Any boat with an all round white light ON and not anchored is a boat under power.
Any boat under power with an all round white steaming light will not have its STERN light on.
But any boat will have its port and starboard lights on.
That means, in effect, that the masthead tri-color cannot be on.... Because the tri lights cannot be turned on and off separately.
Because when steaming with an all round white light, the white stern light part of the trilight cannot be on at the same time.

But I can see that in a sailboat not switched correctly that the tri-color and the all round white could be on at the same time. And that would cause confusion for the observer.

That's why a sailboat our size should have separate port and starboard and stern light at deck level.
Cruising or offshore I would definitely include the tri-light and the all round white
anchor light.

[It's a whole other dual fixture, but I know I've seen an all led steaming light and amp-eating deck light combo that is mounted at spreader height. Personally this is an excellent idea. And if attracting attention at sea these lights are perfect.
However, for picky regs I don't see how cutting a major portion of the steaming light by mounting it on the front of the mast makes it legal.
But do see that the mast will create a beneficial shadow for the poor guy in the cockpit.]

Also, I don't recall seeing a halfmast steaming light shown in any required nav light diagram.
Conceivably it is less legal than a tri-light with an all round anchor/steaming light.


Just to make things difficult: I have a diagram here that shows a white MASTHEAD steaming light that has a wedge blacked out on the aft side that corresponds exactly with the stern light wedge shaped light down on the DECK LEVEL. Also the red/green side lights are on.
Thus, you'd have your three normal deck level lights with a three sided white masthead steaming light.
This evidently conforms exactly to USCG rules for a sailboat under power.


BUT, a masthead 360 white light IS also Regulation for steaming under power.....
Have the diagram to prove it.
THAT IS IF YOU TURN OFF THE DECK LEVEL STERN LIGHT AND keep your sidelights on.
That seems simple enough.
As a bonus you get an allround anchor light when the side lights are off.

Whewww!

[commanderpete]

The power draw of the steaming light is not much of a concern, if your engine has a charger.

I don't think powerboats are really looking for lights up off the water. I look for masthead lights, and I see them frequently, although the light usually turns out to be a plane, helicopter, star, tower or something

You can even mistake a traffic light on land for another boat

By the way, I called Sea Dog about their new LED lights C-147 mentioned above. The guy wasn't familiar with the product but eventually told me they don't make an LED stern light. I haven't been able to find this line of products for sale anywhere yet.

[ebb]

C'pete,
Thanks for keeping the discussion going.

Did get on to
www.sea-dog.com
new items
where we find a selection of stamped 304 LEDs nav lights:

pair of horizontal mount port and starboard lights (400035)
a combo horizontal mount bow light (400050-1)

a rectangular vertical mount transom light (400065-1)
Here's the STERN LIGHT. But design is different.

a pair of vertical mount side lights (400080).

AND they also have a couple of interesting telescoping all round white fixtures
one is 24"/48". The other 34"/60" (400016-1). (Assume these are small powerboat allround whites - but if it is appropriate for us either one could be mounted in the pushpit line of stanchions, almost out of the way and ready to be extended for steaming.)

These are all 2nm Colreg and LED.
BUT, we don't find any data sheets, instructions, nothing, on these fixtures
So we don't know about any warranty
or EMI they might be emiting.
Would be nice to know if you use a handheld VHF.

They don't have any mast mounted stuff.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
I've read where boats these days get robbed of their pricey LED lights.

In the McMasterCarr catalog you can find 18-8 tamper-resistant machine screws. 'Pin in head' Torx have a post in the middle so a regular torx driver cannot be inserted. And a spanner head which has two small separated holes that also requires a special bit. Page 3056 for the screws. Page 2821 for the screw drivers and Page 2810/11 for 1/4" hex shank bits for these special screws. The Torx would be my choice.
And the Torx pin-in-head hollow head bit is not likely to be found in any jerk's Leatherman.

[Commander 147]

CPete and Ebb

I also called Sea Dog to inquire about the stern light. I'm not sure why but most LED nav light manufacturers seem to be quick to come out with a red/green version but forget completely about the white. Which also seems to be the case here. It may be that white light from LEDs is harder to produce and it may somewhat inhibit the design process.

At any rate the guy I talked to said he would at least get the ball rolling with his engineering dept. to see if they could come up with a solution.

Ebb there is a tech services guy named Mark Barnhart that may be able to give you an answer on the EMI emission radius on the units. His e-mail address is

'techserv@sea-dog.com'

[ebb]

continued from post #71
In that post I conjectured that the P.S. tests were slightly skewerd because they left out a major nav light manufacturer HELLA.
They left out AQUASIGNAL also!!!

I was cruising around the net trying for the last time to find somebody else horning in on the lucrative led navlight market. On the whimsical Jametown site they have a video box where we can view an equally uninformative guy at a boat show changing out the old quart sized AguaSignal incandescent masthead fixture for a spiffy led replacement.... He kind of waggles the old one out and shoves the new one into the same old base! Cool! But he doesn't identify the bright new shorty. Naturally we can't find the fixture in the scramble of nav lights in Jamestown's online catalog pages. They don't sell it !
Anyway, it is the S-32 Tri-Anchor. Shipstore has it for $645,77. But you can shell out $450/460 at pyacht if you have to have one. Hope it comes WITH a base! I'm tired of looking for prices.
The matching series side lights are in the $80 range.

OK, don't you think this is strange
that Practical Sailor also did NOT include this tri-color in its Feb 2010 comparison ratings.
But they did use "for comparison purposes" the 25w AquaSignal incandescent.....yeah,
it would be hard to ignore a nav light manufacturer that's been in business since 1868!
So why in hell is AquaSignal's led tri-color light NOT included?
Well maybe it's because it has a FOURTH all round white light on it!
And P.S. wasn't interested in THAT function.
OR interested in informing their readers (who like me want ALL the information they can get right now!) that that function was even available! BAH, HUMBUG.

google> agua signal Corporation
www. aguasignal.info/ecat/htdocs/index.php?id=209
(I'm going to assume that address won't come up, so try to type into google the title just as I have it. (Home Page - Support - FAQ.)
It is Q&A page where AquaSignal nureyevs all over itself telling us what and what not to do with their old masthead lanterns, nav lights and bulbs.
For us poor sods updating AquaSignal incandescent to led.

Think I'm putting this recent Practical Sailor test into the same category as their infamous marina ooze anchor test of years ago. Their credibility for me is walking the plank.
We assume that P.S. (our only marine product, no advert, testing source) has our interests foremost. Nav lights are of utmost importance and every aspect of what is in the market should be revealed by P.S. Afterall they are doing the 'scientific' study and collecting the data for us. We assume that P.S. is testing ALL COLREG APPROVED nav lights when we study their test results in the magazine. We aren't served by P.S. ignoring without comment manufacturers with long standing reputations. Or pretending that certain available options/features like the all round aren't of importance or interest.