Tiller Discussions

[Tony G]

?Pardon the workmanship? You're hired! How soon can you make it over to Northern Minnesota?

That looks like a top notch rehab for the tiller you started this thread with! When are you going to try it out? And, of course, take pictures

Geeez, I can't even remember where I put my tiller...woe.

[ebb]

Mike, Great photos of your tiller rehab. Just what the doctor ordered for those damn delams.

It's too bad so much carving has to be done to get the tiller to fit the head.


Current online Defender catalog pictures only "F" style tillers from H&L. Some look like they are 'on sale.'
These do certainly seem to be the tiller style that MaiTai has. I don't know what size Bill has. They come in different lengths and widths. And at the moment Defender seems to be offering all the non-custom F style tillers that H&L makes.

I don't know what is best. Believe that racers might want a tidier version because of extra knees - while a cruiser might go for a longer one to make it easy to reach areas of the cockpit and still have a bodypart on the tiller.

Perhaps the time has come for that spare?
I've ordered the big one. Figure I can always cut it shorter and trim the sides down.....

[Tim D.]

I've ordered the big one. Figure I can always cut it shorter and trim the sides down.....

The big one being ?, #__________

Thanks Tim

[ebb]

612322>Mod130F (Santana 22/27) 45"L - butt 1 5/16"X2"H........62.99
612323>Mod1251F (J-24) 48 1/2"L - butt 1 12/32"X2 1/8H.........64.99
612324>Mod1252F (J-30) 54 1/2"L - butt 2 3/8"X2 1/2"...........102.99
612318>Mod101F (Cal 20/21) 60" - butt 1 5/8"X2"H..................68.99
612319 Mod105F (Cal 25) 48" - butt 1 5/8"X2H........................63.99
612320>Mod112F (Ranger 26/28) 43"L - butt 1 1/2"X2""............62.99

I'd call H&L and ask what the rise is for the tillers you are interested in.
The rise is, as I understand it, the height the S makes measured from the bottom of the butt. Maybe they have a fax-able data sheet???
So if you had that measurement and have the length and assume a fair curve (because tillers are bent wood the S curve won't be too radical) you could fake a decent representation of a tiller on cardboard - and see if that is what you want in the cockpit. You need two measurements: the rise and the length measured along the same horizontal the butt rests on.

It's an assumption this group of H&L "F" tillers are all proportionate to their length. In other words that they are all scaled versions of one another.
Seems unlikely considering these are class tillers and may have to conform to original designer specs and class racing rules. While Defender has 6 'F' tillers listed online (and the lowest prices), pyacht lists 16 class tillers in the 'F' design - more expensive but not near as ridiculous as rigrite.

I felt the Cal 20/21 was too long and skinny for me and ordered the J-30 because of its extra lams. Have other ideas for a tiller head and felt I needed a hefty tiller to play with.
Shortening one of these tillers, if so desired, would consist of cutting short or long on a fairly healthy length of butt-end these tillers all look like they have.
The 5 footer may well be the ideal off the shelf customizer for the Ariel. And the Commander too.

INPUT...INPUT...NEED INPUT... PLEASE RESPOND..


It's important to have a comfortable tiller. When you're reaching around for it in the dark you'd want it to be there above seat-level, easy to grab, right where it ought to be.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
These are current Memorial Day Defender prices 2008. (and they may have changed.) Copied the data as best I did, but it may be screwed up.
Gas prices this holiday are above $4gal and rising - all prices are skyrocketing. The only thing that'll be cheaper tomorrow is the dollar.

[mbd]

Still needing varnish, but I'm out of time. The "sea trial" is tomorrow - launch day. This revised tiller comes in at a mere 38 1/2". But, I'm hoping it'll be more out of the way in my cozy cockpit. I'll report back on how well or not it works.

Not sure what to do with the bolt sticking out - just cut it off? There must be a more elegant way...

[mbd]

Not sure of the relevance of this, but when I was cleaning up the tiller head, it had #12 stamped on it.

[ebb]

The tiller I ordered from Defender arrived this afternoon.
It's marked as an "F" tiller, and bearing the maker's number as 1252F, I think.
But is

NOTHING LIKE THE PICTURE IN THE ONLINE DEFENDER CATALOG

and is totally unlike the drawings in the Custom and Stock list under the H&L logo.

The tiller has hardly any rise at all.
It is the vaguest S shape you can imagine. It is for all intents and purposes a Straight tiller. More like an "A" or a "B" in the drawings.

H&L Marine Woodwork, Inc., the maker of what seems to be the only laminated tillers commercially made, seems to be alive and well. They will be getting a call from me on Monday morning - and also Defender.

I don't even want this thing I got as a backup!!!
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VERY nice lady at H&L faxed me the ax on their tillers. Seems that the "F" I picked up out of the Defender catalog (1252F) referred to F as in Finished, varnished.
The tiller shape Defender shipped is an "A" style. Which is clear, probably, on the illustrations from the posts above.
YES, you and I probably want the "F" style rudder - BUT the price list and the Class boat tiller all use the confusing F (for Finish - why not V for Varnish?) in their list. None of the tillers are described by their shape or alphabetical model. So unless you know the shape of Class boat tillers you have to ask H&L. I received a full page rendition of their ready-made tillers that are very close to inch to foot scale, making them very easy to scale up full size.

I'll fake a full size rep of their F tiller (51"X7 1/2"rise - H&L #137) used on the Ranger 33 and trial it in Little Gull's cockpit. Its shape is really cool, I'll be able to make minor adjustments and decide if it's OK, or make an exact model of more radical changes to send. Or laminate my own.

First,
the "F' shape tiller I'm referring to is the tiller in the drawings that is bowed most of its length - then esses quickly down into the butt. Of the two S shape tillers pictured it is the longer one. Since our tillerhead rests at an angle to the cockpit sole, I'm only guessing that the chord in the bow (that the shorter one doesn't have) will more likely get the handle horizontal at seat height. Which I feel is ideal. We'll see. It would be so convenient to have a off the self whenever needed.


Second,
According to my informant, when referring to the Class boat tillers, only two of this pattern fit the bill.
1157F ERICSON 27 - 2"X2" - 46 3/4"L with a 5" rise. - $69.98.
137F RANGER 28 & 33 - 1 7/8"W X 2 1/4"D - 51"L with a 71/2" rise. $84

It would seem that the Ranger tiller would do. But in the resting/down position is the rise correct and the handle in the best position?
To me, but I may be wrong, the best resting position has the handle more or less horizontal. Casually steering while sitting would not need the tiller to be lifted..... effortless. Maybe easier to rig the auto-pilot and figure out self-steering modes.

Third,
She said you can have a custom tiller made for about the same price! 3 weeks. So, if you want more length, or more rise, send them a pattern. Might send them a pattern and ask them to close match it to tiller mold they don't always make. Don't see how they can do a 'one off' for a price close to regular ones.

If anybody has input on this it would be great.
1) Especially on the length - a tiller could be... too long - pro and cons. The longer the tiller the easier to move the rudder.
2) Rise - a tiller could come out of the tiller head and end up at the other end in an uncomfortable position for extended steering, sitting or standing. The last thing I'd want is a tiller that bugged me. What's ideal?

Fourth,
Defender will take the tiller back. But guess who pays UPS?
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Prices are current as faxed to me. They have gone up.
We can order directly from H&L. I wouldn't mind a custom tiller one bit - if it was the perfect fit for the cockpit. Ordering from the maker means all the widths, depths and lengths are up-front. I would want to do the finishing. IE soak it first in penetrating epoxy.
The mahogany in the laminations looks like philippine lauan.
Every lamination in the "A' tiller that's going back shows flawless pieces.

Purists will have to put up with the lams 'running out' on the bottom of all these tillers as they taper toward the handle. A good reason for vigilance in varnishing. If I go custom, I'll ask if the tiller can be put back in the mold after initial taper routing and have a full length bottom piece glued over the run-outs before final rounding and shaping. Never know!