EBB's PHOTO GALLERY THREAD

[marymandara]

For SplashZone, you probably need to go to the fishboat chandelry...I don't think it's "yachty" enough for Westwhatever.

SplashZone is a two-can, two-part, strongly foul smelling underwater cure epoxy product. Industrial Marine-Tex, as it were. Have to mix the two parts (black and bile green) together in roughly equal amounts as needed ---and you have to keep the lump wet! Hands, too! Turns more-or-less OD Green when you have it mixed right. Really good for sculpting and so on like you had to do around your cockpit drain pipes.

Since it has to be wet, it dribbles this OD green juice everywhere...that does a dandy job of permanently staining any porous surface...like paint or gelcoat. It is tough stuff. Not sure it's going to do what you just clarified, though...it IS really handy for a lot of other uses, you ought to give it a try. Thick, tough putty in whatever quantity you feel like mixing...pretty neat.

Being ever the low-tech, non-esoteric cheapskate that I am I have found pretty good success at hull fairing with epoxy resin and balloons(for sandability) with 1/4" milled glass fiber added for strength...to my experience, it sands a lot better than if you put silica in it, and I haven't had any crack or fall off anything I've put it on over the course of quite a few jobs and about a 15 year span. I did it out of frustration once because the silica-filled stuff...well, you know...I was ending up with silica-filled humps surrounded by low spots. I really like to use a DA for that kind of work anymore if there is air to be had, though...cuts faster than an electric RO and has a lot more control...and I am a big fan (itchiness aside) of mill fiber for "structural" fillers, mainly because it's cheap and tough. While I'm sure there is a better mousetrap made, I tend to go with the more-or-less "old school" goods an awful lot as long as I know they do the job adequately...saves a lot of $$$. I'm preaching to the choir...I better just shut up and let ya sing!

Dave

[Tony G]

Both of you two have mentioned adding chopped glass fibers(Ebb) and milled glass fibers(Dave) to the mix. Is this a prepackaged product or home made? I did purchase some milled glass fiber from a supplier. It is HEAVY, dense, grainy, and causes lots of sagging. It makes a good dense plug but it is useless on anything but a horizontal surface. Most curious, Tony G

[ebb]

Thanks Capt Dave,
points well taken, that splashzone sounds fasinatin! Like something to use on iron plate fishing boats and ferrocement. Smith&Co's Fill-It is really aimed at ruogh service too. Smiths's first love, if it can be put like this, was for ferrocement, when they were hot, he came up with CPES (clear penetrating epoxy) as a sealer. Then the woodworkers and home repair guys discovered it. (But never came up with real finesse products like for finishing off the topsides IMCO)

I got epoxy back in the days befor it was for 'public sale' - getting it in containers with codes for labels - and played around with it like it was playdough - and became badly sensitized to it where it attacked the fingers around the nails. Didn't heal for weeks. Don't know that I would stick my fingers in that evil sounding stuff you talk about!!!

I swear latex gloves you get at the plastics supply or hardwear are 2nds or thirds or rejects from the medical suppliers. Gloves will have holes in them or pull apart when pulling them on. They're for dexterity not dipping!


I get milled glass in plastic jars from the local plastics fabrication store. It's heavy glass dust. And when I added it to the mix it near tore itself off the vertical surface! Add that stuff and you loose sandability, it's for plastic rock. I don't use it much. Jars of 'chopped strand' I get are 1/4". I've heard it comes shorter or longer. That and silica is the mish-mash I make up. Use it structurally. It's hairy. If a surface is exposed and need it smooth I press mylar or visqueen against it. I think (I hope!) it is pretty strong stuff! I believe I would use this for molded in backup pads for fittings. I built up the inside of the stem with it, especially around the cutwater, Crazy, huh?

[ebb]

But since this fairing thing has happened here in this far off corner of this site...
I'll just add this:
407 after 3 weeks gets mighty hard. I am using a high grade marine 100% solids low vis laminating epoxy, it is relatively easy to knock down compared to the gelcoat. So you can sand smooth curves. You could get to the high-build primer stage with this, since it does feather, but it's hard to control.
Interlux makes a two part finishing off epoxy called VC that I will locate.
WM has Awlgrip fairing epoxy that can be used exsystem I believe.

I got page 144 out of the Manual blown up again. This time, the stations, the bread slices. When it's bigger you can site the lines or lay a straight edge against them.
There are NO straight lines in the hull except the flats in the keel, and they are curved fore and aft.

The bow was/is very hollow. The part of the bow forward of the little bulkhead. A large triangular area is five fillings by now. The hull at the bulkhead around this area is convex and pretty fair. Aft of the imprint hollows probably caused by the stringer begin. They are fairly fair after three full passes. The bow is hollow, on the port side especially, well under the waterline. It is almost as if the natural hollow of the keel and rise of the bilge extended right up to the stem fitting!

It looks like the only true convex lines on the topsides are those where there are bulkheads inside.

[ebb]

Page 144. Floating above the grid line of Station #5 are a couple of very interesting doodles. One might show some wood trim that is obviously too small, almost flimsey. Actually, it's funny.

The other illustrates an out-turned flange in the hull/deck with some kind of split tube material covering the join. (TOP OF HULL is printed under the drawing.)

Howboutthat!

[Tony G]

Hey, I was just there last week. Wonder what happened to door number three-the one that got picked for the Ariel/Commander? I may be wrong here but one of those profiles looks identicle to the Ensign h/d joint and the other one looks suspect to many Bristol pictures I've seen. Having never actually touched a B-27...how about a CD D-25?

[Tony G]

Well Ebb, it's cold and snowing outside. Yuk. Boatwise it's time to turn to paper and thought for some of us. Okay. What's happening with 338? Is the cabin sole out yet and the new tankage in? How about the MSD. Eeewee. Airhead-Lavac-Willcox-Crittendon? Don't think we've nailed you down on that one yet.

[ebb]

Capt Tonio,
When the weather changed, surprised and embarrassed once more at how blinding fast the seasons pass on by, had this Urge, man - you have no idea - to work on the topsides, befor the bloddy tent got blown apart again.

Eyeball to gelcoat, I've covered 1/2 the sides in microsphere brownie mix. Done the batten thing, made the vertical pencil lines, traced the puddles therein to fill. Measured and mixed. Filled and waited, longboarded endlessly and did it again.

Coming close to something like fair curves. Have a 3 foot board now made from closet pole, 1/4" lexan, carpet tape and a great anti-static 36 grit 3" wide sanding belt. Awesome stuff.

Missed this weekend in the cycle because the chocolate didn't bake in the 30 - 50 degree temp. Put it on late and it didn't set in the freezing overnight. Got up to 60 today and it attempted to harden, but didn't.

The topsides is a major project. The whole boat between the imprinted bulkheads fore and aft, and the imprinted stringers up to the rail has to be faired. My fairing is essentially a valiant attempt to plump the sides out to only vaguely what the Master's lines are in the Manual. When I laid the fairing batten horizontally on the hull, a new set of hollows showed up. While either side of the boat have not equal unfairness, both had a double dipper, requiring extra fill, just forward of the compression bulkhead in that difficult area where the flare of the bow is changing into the vertical sides at mid section. It is hard to read the transition with the eye, so much is happening.

Remember Geoff had that weird dip in Uhuru's hind quarter? No dip in 338's - but her tight little curved port quarter had a hollow 1/4" deep, while the starboard side is pretty much ok.

Airhead, I haven't persued. It would be really cool to have a working composting toilet aboard. They did say that they were working on designing a shorter model. And eventually 338 will have one. Tho it's hard not to be persuaded by Jim Baldwin's enthusiasm for the Lavac in his Triton. We are a flush it down the drain society, at all levels, I'm glad we have the humble portopotti as an alternative.

As you know I've been trying to find a contrasting color and more cremey epoxy paste to continue with the next step, something to fill scratches etc. WasteMarine had SplashZone and some one parts - nope. I wanted to check out Svensons again. So, went way the hell over to Alameda. What a great place the store is, what a relief! Didn't smell of plastic fenders, wasn't a chandlery morphing into a OSH.
They had Interfil by Interlux in a 1/2gal kit for $60. Read the cans, looked like it's ok. Take to boat, cut the cans apart, read inclosed miniature pamphlet. Way at the end, on the last page, it says:
Must be washed with water after each use.

(Expletive) (Delete) If Interfux thinks I'm ever using a single product of theirs on 338 they're crazy. I feel Insulted. What kind of jerks market a filler that has to be washed befor you put the next layer on - and even befor you sand it??? You guys really put up with disrespect like this? You and I know they could make the better product

and still overprice it.

[Mike Goodwin]

Ebb,
Another product like that, that needs washing , is called WEST system. You must remove the blush or problems later down the road will appear.

[ebb]

Yeah,
West System is up front about it. Sort of.
What got me was that Interpox had it sealed between two cans and inside a small print pamphlet. like it was dirty.
W h a t ?
Like they were embarrassed or something? Wouldn't it be part of the general directions ON the can? Because They know that some of us know that they are using additives like nonyl phenol which is a cheap carcinogenic extender to adulterate their product.

Now, Aye don't know what Intersucs has in this 2 part paste. I have not checked out the MSDS. I'm assuming tho that like System 3 MAS RAKA and West they no longer list nonyl phenol as a hazardous material on their MSDS. Wouldn't you like to know who let That happen?

It is a non volitile carcinogenic additive that increases volume and decreases epoxy's good points like strength, and chemical, temperature and water resistence. While there are epoxies with the stuff that don't blush, all the rest of the adulerated have nonyl phenol at least partially to blame for blushing.

Blush is a greasy film that you cannot trust to another layer without agressive scrubbing. Why trust it after the scrubbing? You got a degree in goddam scrubbing? The window for applying overcoats without the cleaning is very small as it can be done only when it is setting but not cured. This represents a huge amount of time and labor to ready the surface for recoat. In the actual 3D real 26' Ariel boat world why use it? My cod, if I had to scrub down the topsides we are fairing befor each layer I'd truly be nuts be now. How can anybody conceive of a filler that you had to do this to? Corporate sleeze fueled by greed. Maybe worse.

If Interbucs (and the rest of the crew) really cared about your needs they would not sell you junked up epoxies. A boat, or anything your life depends on, requires the best. If these jerks are not selling you the best, or hiding from you the questionable quality of their product, DO NOT TRUST THEM.

For a few bucks more they could do it right, and sell to you a superior product. And EARN your trust.

The head Intercluck gave himself a 9 billion dollar bonus this year fror being so clever in cheapening his product. This is probably a lie. Probably only 8.

Anybody else want the soapbox?

[Mike Goodwin]

Some how Ebb, I get the feeling you don't support the current administration's policy " don't let 'em ask, and we won't tell 'em what's in it .
If it's good for business, especially my friends in Texas, then its good for me , er ah the world. "

[marymandara]

Personally I have pretty much had it with buying Marine grade products in general, especially where paint and epoxy are concerned...largely thanks to Ebb's advice pertaining to www.epoxyproducts.com . I've also been fortunate enough to cultivate a good working relationship with a local commercial-only vendor who sell to boatbuilding firms which has allowed me to get pretty much anything in industrial, marine or aircraft resin and core products at a super super deal.

When I use up the last of my last 5-gallon pail of S-3, I'm gonna have a party since it means I don't have to have 2 sets of hardeners...just Jeffco aircraft resin, barrier coats, etc. etc. etc., and ONE set of hardener products does all of the resins. Not blushy. Not stinky. Real consistent.

I love you, Ebb...
Dave

[ebb]

...blush

[marymandara]

Quit huffing the fool fumes, Ebb!!
We were just talkin' 'bout no-blush stuff here!
Man!

[ebb]

Luv you too, Dave!