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  1. #421
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA

    Anybody see this boat on San Francisco Bay?

    {Pg21 #420}
    SKUA was donated to - what they said was - a sailing school for 'disadvantaged' kids in
    Alviso / San Jose. May have expected new owners to come back with a Hi! and a few
    photos of happy young urban sailors pulling ropes or something. Eventually looked up
    the school on the web, discovered the guy who signed the papers had a very abrasive
    relationship, not only with Alviso locals, but with various bayshore restoration agencies,
    and the all powerful BCDC. They dragged him into court and punished him with huge
    fines for dumping riprap on his shore front.
    Photos, also found on the web, revealed the school office to be a dilapidated trailer,
    and a marina totally overgrown and disappeared into a sea of rush and cattails.

    Drove down there once: trailer was gone, found a 'no trespass' sign that also identified
    the vacated mess as sailing school property,
    abandoned plastic boats in the photos were gone.

    .................................................. .................................................. ..................................
    Skuas mate for life. They are found at both poles and are pelagic. They eat penguin
    chicks whole. They don't fish, they take it away from specialist birds. Kind of like
    politicians, and amateur boatbuilders.
    They are fearless, will attack humans when they go near their young.

    There be no sea hawks, but if there were, they be skuas. They are ends-of-the-earth
    creatures. When polar explorers see a bird, it's likely a skua sailing by. Back then,
    seemed like a great boat name for embracing global adventures and the future together.
    When our single chick turned 18, divorce made it a relic.

    Took the boat out on the Bay... alone, stupidly... without an experienced sailor to chat
    with. The narrow bow and beam, and long heavy bowsprit seemed wrong for offshore,
    it's long straight keel and shallow draft gave it an uncomfortable tippy motion.
    But the boat was a memento of a broken 30year partnership - couldn't raise sail without
    ache in the gut. Tried to sell it. One guy came aboard, sat down with me in the all
    teak accommodation below, and told me all what was wrong with my apprentice ship.

    Historical photo in the previous post reminds me -- when I see those strangers: new
    owner and his buddies on deck, they had just picked up Skua in Sausalito and were
    headed south to the bottom of the Bay -- remember at the time having a feeling that
    something wasn't right. The clowns didn't have a sailor's curiosity to hank on the staysl
    and spread that glorious gaff main!

    Man!...cutter still looks pretty cool!
    And in a couple winks, she was gone like a bird. The link broke forever. Without a trace.

    .................................................. .................................................. ..................................
    Jack Boyce and Joanne Kyger, who had property in Bolinas, were building a house,
    saw my ridiculous and isolated predicament (beginning to work on the hull at 10thSt in
    Berkeley), and invited me out, lock, stock and barrel to build the boat there, with friends,
    without rent, at the end of their driveway in rural California. It became more than 30
    years of awakening, working for Bill Brown as a gardener, love, marriage, finding
    carpentry, curmudgenery, fatherness, and divorce.

    Boat itself could not have been built without the support, patience, advice, and genius
    of yacht designer Lauren Williams.

    Nor could the Skua have made it out of the ...... Lagoon without the lip and tips and
    hilarious weekend lunches at Ed Letter's Marine in Bobo with Babe Lamerdin, John
    Linderman and the Elizabeth Muir. No one told a joke better than Babe, and John
    could recite every twisted limerick ever conceived in the cerebral cortex of the human male.

    And later on, the guidance and teaching of Donald Goring at Lee Sail Loft, Alameda,
    who so generously laid out and cut on his loft floor the Egyptian cotton we brought him
    -- and taught the EX the marvelous exacting art of sewing and roping a gaff mainsail.
    An amazing achievement -- that huge sail -- every stitch, rat-tail and cringle by hand !!
    Jib and staysl, too!!

    Quite possibly never thanked her enough...
    Nor the extraordinary sailors who shared their time and passion and know-how with us...
    Last edited by ebb; 04-02-2017 at 03:07 PM.

  2. #422
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA

    Thumbs down Rant -- Another SYSTEM 3 FAIL

    masking tape paint peeling trick
    Name:  15 08 30_0066.jpg
Views: 6469
Size:  81.0 KBName:  15 08 30_0059.jpg
Views: 6595
Size:  87.0 KBMAST focus: OK, So the new sailtrack holes are just done and tapped for 8-32MS.

    The old bronze track has a 3" jog between holes -- the new Schaefer s.s. track: 2 3/4".
    Could not avoid some ten old holes showing up in the 26 feet of new track cable-tied
    to the mast. These voids really can't be redrilled for a larger screw. Theoretically
    possible, but they don't show up exactly on target, centered in the new track -- or they
    happen to be wonkus corroded cavities, filled with LabMetal, that aren't smart to tap.

    Drilled the ten holes at each location offset about 1/2" above. First, wiresize #29 for
    the 8-32 tap, in cobalt, thru both track and mast, then wedged up track in place and
    carefully opened the new sailtrack holes to match Schaefer's. Then tapped the offsets.
    Made a pencil mark at all filled & blank locations on the mast, to avoid them, actually
    by temporarily taping the old track back where it had hung out for the last 50 years.

    Got a perpetual GaryLarson 'My brain Is Full' coffee mug, for that!

    Stuck a small piece of blue tape at the 10 offset holes as eye markers. New holes
    drilled and tapped spread out along the length of the new track... job done.
    (Schaefer track also has 10 more holes and fasteners than the old. That's good.)
    Thumbnail the blue tape....peel back the pieces, ...and...they

    Holymoley, it's a very thin 'leaf' of mast -- touch an edge and the gray LPU flakes.

    This is your everyday non-aggressive 3M blue stick-and-peel masking tape.... How
    can indestructible Aluthane be lifting off? ...Water Reducible LPU? ...seems lifeless.
    Must have cut the product too much. But if it failed, how did tape pull Aluthane off
    as well? Seems it lifted only the micron contact bond the LPU made with aluminum
    paint. Yet multiple clear coatings cured with no cohesive strength.
    This is a 100% system fail.

    This contact bond makes it difficult to scrub the clear coat off. Various Scotchbrite
    pads, water, solvents...and hard work removed some failed coating...but... Tried
    the heat gun, that didn't work. Scrubbing with maroon pads also created streaks of
    raw aluminum... as did mechanical sanding with the ocsillating Makita. !@#$%!
    Thought about using blue tape as the remover. Expensive. And not realistic. Not
    Funny. NONE of this is realistic! Especially scrubbing and sanding! @#$%!

    Blame !@#$%! SYSTEM 3 for this failure? Had mysterious problems with a 2-part
    epoxy product of theirs that cost a lot of time to fix, plus a kind of grief in loosing
    trust in a greener company. {System 3 --T-88 Structural Epoxy --pg 17 #325.}

    Water reducible linear polyurethane is a huge achievement in the war we must win
    over global terrorist chemical corporations killing our planet. We slaves approve
    and support them at every opportunity... while they and their armageddonist
    brethren relentlessly diminish all life. Played too loose & free with System 3!
    Have 5 quarts of their WR-LPU colors ... that now will never be used on Littlegull.

    The mast has been curing on burritos outside in the weather, like me not doing much
    work. There are endless variables leading to coating failure. Intercoat adhesion:
    like perfect coats, weaker or stronger, applied in the wrong order.
    Coating thickness, cutting it too much. (Never heard of failure in thinning varnish 50%
    ... but varnish is usually oil based, not water reducible urethane.) High heat, low
    humidity, sun spots... ... Wisecrack that System 3 is too provincial for us down here in
    Temperate-ville, being manufactured up in cold damp overcast Washington state.

    Technique also might be a cause, the usual:: sterate or latex white sandpaper, tack
    rag, solvent uncleaning wash, soap residue, or interpreting instructions wrong: stroke
    left to right, not up and down. Yes, but WR ClearCoat operation was rolled on in a
    single uninterrupted series. The price to pay for more shiney and more longevity may
    not be worth the price, if a system is so picky that a non-professional optimist can't
    expect decent results from the time, effort, and high priced investment in what is
    essentially a "cosmetic coating for a recreational vehicle". Only Awlgrip has the moxi
    to be a chemical warlord in the shipyard... We Normals want paints that are forgiving.


    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    Think about how stupid the average person is
    and then realize that half of them are stupider that that.
    George Carlin

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

    LATER EDIT. Ebb's first attempt at uploading pics from the pic file... frickinhuge!!

    2nd pic shows a green tap fluid I can possibly recommend. Assume it cleans up with
    soap and water or isopropyl without leaving an evil residue. 'SAFETAP ULTIMA:
    Environmentally friendly, biodegradable, non-staining and odorless. Looks like a
    transparent viscous oil, yet leaves no oil on the work.* Contains no oil, no solvents,
    no sulfur or chlorine and NO SILICONES. Works on all metals, but especially good
    with aluminum'. MSDS is useless for ingredients, as it has no hazardous ones, the
    Technical Data Sheet has all the hype just mentioned, but no words recommending
    squeaky cleanup. Of dozens, not a single vendor or forum have anything to add
    beyond the manufacturer's BS, concerning the actual use of this product!* Safetap
    does us no favors: The hype doesn't clue us as to what in hell the non-oil fluid is!
    More important, the manufacturer never lets us know what to clean it off with!!
    Oh wise one, what's that all about? Why keep it secret?

    That piece of blue is a reminder marker for drilling new holes, mentioned in text.
    A tap drill has just made a new hole in the mast 1/2" above an old hole that is way
    oversized for any screw. Hole in track is then propped up with scrap polyethylene
    sheet and redrilled to match Schaefer's. Notice -- on right the end of the original
    Pearson bronze track -- one side of the 'T' drastically reduced from decades of
    uneven wear. Photo shot before discovering the bluetape peel-away surprise.

    (Most good tap and die sets are 4fluke HSS. Tap thread cutting is done with a bore
    that has four thin ridges of cutters and four proportionly wide flukes that collect the
    cutting waste. In smaller sizes we use: #6, 8, 10 12 & 14, the taps are fragile and
    will eventually break in your work. McMasterCarr has upgrade taps & dies for various
    metals and wallets. Also, you should have a set of Walton TAP Extractors in your
    kit. They work by extending 4 hard wires down into the flukes of the broken tap in
    your work.... which you adjust and turn to dislodge. They really work well getting
    the jammed tip out... once you get the pins inserted. In a perfect world, I'd have a
    set of 3fluke tap cutters, which naturally have a stronger column.
    Check out McMasterCarr's stubby cobalt tap-required wire size bits for drilling soft
    & hard metal... haven't broken one yet!)

    First pic shows a piece of masking tape that has lifted what appears to be a large
    flake of all 8 WRLPU coating layers -- plus what appears to be the last coat of the
    moisture cure aluminum-filled urethane 'primer' that preceded the lpu.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

    'Official' SAFETAP REMOVAL Painting finicky aluminum requires careful prep.

    *So I called up MSC Industries that catalogs Safetap, from whom I may have
    ordered. Spoke with a very helpful gal who like me could find nothing on what is
    officially used to clean away Safetap. She gave me itwprobrands customer service
    email. customerservice@itwprobrands.com
    Obviously some huge conglomerate with no time for the unwashed. LO, after a
    brief compliment, mentioning my tapping 100 holes.. got a nearly immediate email
    back from Jada, who said, isopropyl alcohol is adequate for removing Safetap.
    But recommends an LPS aerosol product called EFX.
    Naturally, smelling a rat, looked up the MSDS on LPS EFX and discover it's mostly
    N-heptane: who knows, a not too horribly toxic, extremely explosive, petroleum
    solvent. BUT, the can is under pressure and can blast 'not-oil' from every hidden
    crevice. Page 1 of the 10 page MSDS has a FIRST I've never seen before!... a

    And so it is. How about that! Imco, Very cool.

    * ( not cool, is that the highly poofed environmental/biodegradable product has to
    privately recommend via email a nasty volatile petroleum solvent to guarantee
    Safetap contaminated surfaces are cleared completely for painting prep.
    Especially important for galvanic aluminum, for which this product is recommended.
    Nothing in the product hype or the technical data sheet about removing all traces
    before next process. Confusing that SafeTap deliberately ignores this vital step.

    There are a number of safer environmental degreasers (like EMERGE: no TSP, no
    phosphates, etc) available -- none advised here.
    SafeTap seems to be so embarrassed that they must lie by omission.
    Do not 'seem' to withhold information, because this is what they actually do.)
    Imco, offensive & improper. Looking for another 'environmental' tapping fluid.

    "Like all valuable commodities, truth is often counterfeited." J.C.Gibbons
    Last edited by ebb; 10-16-2016 at 09:09 AM.

  3. #423
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Chicago, IL
    Ebb - did you have your window frames anodized? If so what anodizing process did you use? C-025 Bisquit - Phil

  4. #424
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA

    aluminum windows

    Capt BisQuick suh, Not quite sure where we are with the originals from A-338.
    There is too much background to reiterate here.
    Went the powder-coat route with the big windows... and later decided not to use them.
    Altered them to take thru machine bolts (outside to inside) because the bitty #6MS
    blind holes in the frame of the original were corroded, and I didn't like their flimsy
    nature. Those large lights translated to aluminum were a bad idea. However, to
    make them work I felt the cabin sides had to be stabilized. Some of that story is here.

    The two forward opening lights are also aluminum -- and I also had them coated in the
    same "bronze" color polyester powder, that I didn't get charged extra for, because they
    happened to be using a batch that week. There are many little pieces,
    Miller Powder Coating (Rohnert Park) did a champion job.

    BUT, the polyester adds thickness overall. I ended up with the all important exterior trim
    ring unable to slip over the frame. Can't grind the coating off to make it fit... because
    the aluminum will have a fit... it'll corrode because it won't oxidize properly. But as an
    experiment will grind the coating edge open so it slides over the spigot... touch up the
    wound with an artist's brush and some of that Aluthane -- see if it works, see if it lasts....

    Once you've coated aluminum you can't afford a scratch, because aluminum will start
    to bubble & creep. While a scratch on raw aluminum will heal itself, coated aluminum
    when scratched will create enough electric potential difference between scratch and
    coating in water and salt to cause corrosion. Even tho our mast and fittings are marine
    Almag, observation shows plenty of opportunity for our alloy to corrode. Yet, some
    ancient almag cleats came off with no evidence of bedding compound...leaving a pristine
    anodized footprint like the day it was screwed on 5 decades earlier.. Some were
    intensely corroded along with the screws and holes..
    Anodize is best and safest for new aluminum. It's a beautiful translucent, porous,
    chemical bond oxide finish, yet when scratched may still create potential to corrode.

    Would just start phoning around, maybe the internet, for an outfit that does small jobs or
    marine work. Aluminum masts are still popular these days, so you have to find somebody.

    Anodize comes in hundreds of colors. If you don't like the aluminum look, maybe there's
    a bronze or brown that will be perfect -- especially on some of those original beautiful
    sculpted chocks and cleats they did back in Holland 50 years ago. While both systems
    are environmentally friendly, anodizing is a passivation process done in huge tanks,
    and may not be available for small projects.

    Good luck with your amazing project!~!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________
    Aluthane, the aluminum filled moisture cure urethane, mentioned previously, could to
    some extreme, be used to coat your aluminum fittings. Haven't done it**, we need a
    guinea pig! Aluminum, in current practice, cannot be coated with any foreign substance,
    without precise highly toxic two part chemical washes, and toxic tie-coat primer.
    SO THEY SAY. However, this aluminum filled urethane has, or should I say, is gaining a
    rep for bonding with any metal, and many other materials. Whether it will take the place
    of chromates and primer remains to be seen..
    Am hopeful. This guinea pig has bonded with his original Pearson mast.

    Coating has some quirks : It goes on very very thin, if the surface to paint is smooth the
    result will be dull, if it's rough, the coating appears shiney and bright! If you returned the
    lid to the can with but one drop of liquid in the moat, the lid is welded there forever,
    cannot be pried opened. Partial cans will skin over. Skin fractures when lifted, want a
    fine mesh paper filter into a new container. CO2 or argon toppers don't seem to give
    even an extra day! A different animal, this ALUTHANE. If I had mangy cleats, I'd dress
    them in this urethane ....There is a learning curve to working with it: even roll & tip
    requires practice, it's so fast. Like other 'moisture cure', once you open it, it starts to
    harden. Try to save it longterm for later, you come back to an aluminum hockey puck.

    **except for the mast, where the coating seems almost fused with the old aluminum.
    __________________________________________________ _________________________
    Instead of tediously grinding failed coats off my poor old mast, SOY-GEL will be tried
    instead: it's a safer remover, non-toxic, bio-degradable low-VOC gel. FIRST OF ITS KIND.
    Probably digest the Aluthane also!! Should be interesting. ..Stay tuned....

    chubble chubble wheeek!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________
    We have a 100% green Metalco Anodizing, Emeryville, Calif. that specializes in clear,
    bronze, and black anodizing. Haven't contacted them.

    later EDIT: Talked with Metalco about bringing in projects. No problem with 6061-T-6
    with any welding done using 5356 filler rod... for clear anodizing. Or Almag, I'd guess.
    Believe their process is a sulfuric acid base, but they produce no toxic waste, and the
    plant is near residential neighborhoods. Most anodizers use sulfuric acid which produces
    the clear coat we see on masts and booms.
    Sulfuric acid hardcoat triple dip oxide process thickens overall dimensions, and can
    also repair worn surfaces. Type I chromic acid process produces a very thin anodize that
    does not thicken the work, but doesn't provide much abrasion resistance either.
    Would be interesting to see what happens when some well preserved Ariel/Commander
    Almag chocks and cleats get treated to a nice bronze hardcoat anodized process!!
    Last edited by ebb; 09-09-2016 at 08:03 AM.

  5. #425
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA

    stripping mast of urethane coatings

    TRIAL OF SOY-GEL PAINT REMOVER. Tale of two strippers.

    W-a-y past my project sanding days. Orbital Makita and Bosch disks didn't really
    want to off the failed System3 WR-LPU clear coat... Looked around the web: found
    this yummy SOY-GEL stripper. Local paint stores don't have it. Nor online marine or
    paint suppliers. Got 2 qts - and a bottle of recommended EMERGE degreaser - from
    Rockler ($70 incl S&H). Brushed it on thick as it would go per instructions, covered
    it with plastic film, watched the surface crinkle in some places, but not all over... for
    a couple days. Pulled the film, spent hours, a whole day, scraping the clear coat
    and a little of the Aluthane off. Wash down with detergent and nylon pads......
    Turns out this was stage one of the 'process'. (2qts for 44sqft of mast surface.)

    The coating didn't turn into cottage cheese, as the product video shows. In places it
    lifted bubbly skin of still fairly tough coating... and at others just ignored it. Now
    committed (what nut house is this?)... figured I needed at least a gallon more gel.
    Rockler took forever getting to me. Lo and behold: found it in McMasterCarr, who
    delivered a gallon next day, pronto. ($90 incl S&H)!!!
    Slopped on 2 more heavy coats, with 2 more episodes of scraping layers of sticky
    skin that the stripper merely lifted rather than convert into that more appetizing
    cottage cheese, magically wiped off with handfuls of towels the video shows. Each
    installment also got scrubbed down with detergent and nylon pads.... The Soy-Gel
    leaves a kind of oily residue. Used non-toxic Emerge degreaser after 3rd scrub down.

    Realize we are talking about removing urethane. But it's advertised to easily do that.
    Realized at the beginning that using a stripper would probably mean taking all coating
    off, because the action of stripper is to degrade whatever it penetrates. Penetration
    was and is an unknown. In this case: dashed expectations, disappointing experience,
    a lot of work, lots of bucks. Been smarter to grind off the bloody failed LPU leaving
    most of the Aluthane. Got taken again, by my brain pilot, who seems to be loosing it...
    But it does show just how tough the metallic Aluthane is. That's one lonely thing.

    Stripping paint asks for trouble. Depressing! ....this event also degraded ALL the
    Lab-metal repairs on the mast! The naked and now reversed mast looks horrible,
    quite literally, back to its original painful state. Old pits, corrosions, forensic voids that
    Lab-metal compound transformed to like-new again, turns out nothing more than a
    cosmetic facial... like those fem-crèmmercials on tv... same old face under the paste.
    Alvin, an old welding products company (1950s), produces helpful cans of heat-proof
    lotions and this particular rather toxic "metal repair" paste... I did have fun with it.
    Even tho it's high heat paste,*it still is epoxy. Which Soy-Gel destroyed!!!

    Used the compound to plug the hundred+ old sail track holes. None survived the
    remover, all softened back to paste. >Using a #1 drillbit, found bright metal in
    nearly all the old holes for a 1/4-28 tap - which cut 3 1/2 threads in the mast's 1/8"
    thickness. Now plugged with a tiny disk of aluminum all-thread stud. McMasterCarr
    came through with 1" 1/4-28 aluminum 6061 all-thread studs! ($6.61 for 25)

    Piece of cake. {I know: seen that guy do it with a die on a long piece of all-thread!}
    Art brushed epoxy into new-thread holes and ends of the studs, inserted each into
    its final resting place, gave each 3.5 twists -- let them cure, ground them off flush.

    Somewhere else on the planet 1" 1/4-28 aluminum studs are being used... for what?

    Can not recommend Soy-Gel. Besides being a botch and odd performer, weeks
    of work: on a boat, do we ever want to use a paint stripper that eats epoxy?**

    It has that one good thing going for it: it's kind on your skin (found it does a good
    job painlessly removing oil from the skin of my hands). It is a paint remover: clear
    colored, nearly odorless, makes it easy to track. Gets on gloves and places like door
    & tool handles, easy to pick up by accident, carry to other places, like eyes and
    pets and food.

    Bye bye Soy-Gel.! But it did not touch the Durafix repairs. Notably, that white
    death oxide disaster above the shevebox where the curved tang for foresail blocks
    originally fastened. Mast metal... just gone. In that space, created an awkward fill
    using 730F aluminum alloy sticks and Mapp gas. Embarrassing to see it revealed
    again, yet looks like the alloy managed to 'weld' the sides of the missing track-flat
    together... like it bridged to good aluminum on each side. Nothing will attach there.
    Mid mast, two large Lab-metal filled holes also fell out. Have an idea (o-oh!) how
    to get them filled... permanently with Durafix.
    __________________________________________________ _________________

    **All paint removers are bombs. Destroy everything down to the ground. Some
    are fast, some slow, some are advertised as gentle on the original gel-coat. We
    are well past that issue now. Most skippers have removed all their old bottom paint.
    And then waterproofed the old gel-coat with an epoxy hardcoat barrier. There are
    dozens of removers. Toxic, caustic, new gen -- all chemical. There is no chemical
    stripper that will not attack epoxy. >>There's one: DumondPeelAway, which I
    once used on litlgull's bottom... life changing experience never to be visited again:

    Red can PeelAwayMarineStrip (NOT "SafetyStrip".)...watch your colors....is the
    non toxic, non-carcinogenic, zero VOC, non flammable stripper that will non remove
    epoxy barrier coat, if you don't leave it on too long. PeelAway paste is troweled
    on, covered with 'laminated paper', which combines with "30 coats" of any paint.
    That is then troweled off. But some areas must be done over, not all comes off.
    Ran out of paper-film, plain plastic doesn't work as well. Days, weeks...real bulky
    mess under the boat.... the result, if you did put down black plastic under the boat,
    is like dealing with a couple dead horses. If not toxic, it looks toxic... heavy, sloppy,
    slimey, sodden, disgusting mess... that has to go to the dump, if you disguise it.
    Then you hose and scrub down, neutralize with Citri-Lize and hose it again. $$$$
    Ariel bottom wetted area = 250sqft = 5gal + extra paper. (Had to get more...)
    Two gallons troweled on the Mast may have been more sane... doubt it.

    Nobody on the web likes PeelAway -- except Practical Sailor -- who in 2006
    compared it with nine others using a one square foot(!) layout sample for each....
    on an actual boat with "several layers" of anti-fouling. Practical Joke for the DIYr .
    google: Past Adventures With Chemical Strippers - Practical Sailor. Half fast!

    The yard requires a vacuum sander - this method probably is the cleanest (not
    the quietest) way yet -- requires expensive equipment and young arms.[/I]
    __________________________________________________ ___________________
    *Alvin Lab-metal MSDS http://www.alvinproducts.com/
    "Section 2 Hazard(s)......................................... ...... Aluminum Powder 51.98%
    .................................................. ............................Methyl Ethyl Ketone 9.77%
    .................................................. .............Toluene (Haps) 8.94%" = 70.69% "

    (separate can...Lab-metal Solvent:.............................. 52% toluene, 48% acetone)

    70.69%...no mention what the remainder is. Somewhere in the lit we see this clue:
    "there's no need to mix two parts of the repair paste". Regular Lab-metal repairs can
    be powder coated to 425F. Also available, is a separate super heat resistant Lab-
    metal that will take over 1000F!! Because of this durability, the missing binder didn't
    register as a one-legged epoxy to my po' little gray cells... Never mentioned in the
    MSDS, the Data Sheet or Brochure that the missing percentage: 29.31%, is actually
    non-hazardous epoxy or epoxyester... which !@#$%! SoyGel sucked the life out of..
    WOW, do I make a mess of things!
    http://www.alvinproducts.com/ Just above JayLeno click: Powder Coaters Click Here.
    You'll find a YouTube and a couple important tips about solvents, the product tag is
    'epoxy putty'. Find lists for its uses, but nowhere does it say what can be coated
    over Lab-metal. "Acetone & MEK will soften hardened Lab-metal." Both of these
    are ketones. Ketones are the hot side of solvents and lacquer paints: the aromatics.
    Aliphatics, generally not as lethal and by default may be OK, enamels & coatings
    that use mineral spirits, VM&P naptha & hexanes. Gasoline and kerosene also aliphatic.
    __________________________________________________ __________

    "Writing, I explained, was mainly an attempt to out-argue one's past;
    to present events in such a light that battles lost in life were either won
    on paper or held to a draw."
    Jules Feifer
    Last edited by ebb; 04-01-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  6. #426
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA


    GulfCoastPaint MCU--100 PRIMER/FINISH is its other name. It's been discovered by many
    skippers, primarily because it is available in quart cans from epoxyproducts.com. Some of
    mine here, it is an extraordinary coating, very different from any other we use around the
    boat, requiring imco an application learning curve (see post 424 for some surprises.)
    It is an industrial paint so maybe we can expect excellent longevity and weatherability.

    Aluthane coating is both finish and primer -- perhaps the manufacturer is not entirely sure
    what this coating can do. You can print out a two page 'brochure' from their site, 1/2 of
    which are photos of gigantic industrial plants. But it's already obvious that this coating is
    a marvel, a big deal, and yet to find its full potential. I picked up a readable inhouse safety
    data sheet off pauloman's epoxyproducts site (but don't know how.) It is here we find the
    three (there may be more, Stirling seems to have one like this) commercial names for this
    aluminum paint revealed: Gulfthane, MCU-100 Primer/Finish, and ALUTHANE.
    It's gotten around in other circles...

    "A one component, Moisture Curved Polyurethane Aluminum Coating. Has excellent
    adhesion to sound, tightly adherent rusty steel, and other marginally prepared surfaces.
    This low viscosity, high 'wetting' coating undergoes a rapid molecular weight change as it
    polymerizes into a high molecular weight finish which provides excellent corrosion and
    abrasion resistance. Its resistance to creeping, undercutting, and blistering is superior to
    epoxy primers. MCU-100 is also a barrier primer or tie coat to prevent lifting of strong
    solvent top coats over conventional coatings, and most chemical coatings.


    1. Primer for all types of surfaces.
    2. Excellent 'wetting out' properties over sound, rusty steel.
    3. Fast recoating, 1-2hrs.
    4. Cures down to 18F on dry surfaces.
    5. Excellent corrosion resistance, passed 1,200 hours in salt cabinet.
    6. One package. Easy to use
    7. Outstanding abrasion resistance
    8. May be topcoated with most generic type coatings
    9. Very good weather resistance.
    10. High heat, up to 400F dry.
    11. Excellent as a barrier coat over lead based coatings."

    This should open up possibilities for any doubter. As a 'primer', still not sure about how
    one goes about adding a series of 'generic' coats to polyurethane... which I always
    assumed was the final sweat achievement . Peculiarly, this kind of utilitarian MCU rolls
    on very very thin like LPU, but isn't bling. NO mention of above/below waterlines.
    Abrasion resistance may suggest rubbing down with nylon/grit pad. *
    TECH DATA for thinner is an inhouse 'SA-50'. MSDS reveals xylene is a major ingredient.
    Certainly didn't need thinner when doing the mast. Most sustained use I've had with it.

    Now, prime use for this urethane has been for dressing corroded steel pilings in water.
    Do we assume salt water? Which as we know can entirely erase steel from the planet.
    In coating our boats we are always aware what primers are OK below the waterline.
    There is no caution that this primer cannot be used underwater. No words to that
    effect. Many a neglected aluminum skiff has been born again with a single coat of
    Aluthane. (Later EDIT: Just talked with manufacture's rep at GulfCoastPaintMfg, the
    makers of MCU-100 (Aluthane). He didn't know why we cannot use urethane paint
    underwater. He did say that any urethane, including LPU, can be topcoated with any
    other paint system. Therefor you can say, it's a 'primer'. However, he would not advise
    using Aluthane as a primer on the bottom of a boat, even if topcoated with a twopart
    epoxy OR a hard bottom paint... but didn't know WHY? Don't like this kind of mystery.)

    If you like a galvanize look, this coating will look exactly as you rolled it on 10 years
    later. Don't know that totally for fact: took a couple rusty hardware store thin sheet
    metal horses, the kind that start rusting out the door... had some Aluthane left over,
    hurriedly rolled it over dirt, dust, rust, bird droppings and spider webs. Transformation
    is still a minor miracle: bird droppings still encapsulated, and today, years later, they
    look just painted. Amazing to me is that an aluminum filled paint is used directly over
    and within the rough rust on steel -- and yet doesn't create a battery... these two are
    in no way close friends around the galvanic table.

    Assumed that polyurethanes are always two part. Here we see one-pot referred to
    as 'poly'. On a molecular level urethanes are films made of polymers fused together at
    highly reactive poly-isocyanate sites, forming strong bonds known as chains.
    Moisture causes the reaction that creates amines which combine with isocyanates that
    cure into urea that bonds chains together The process releases CO2. Isocyanates are
    hazardous organic compounds of 'functional' (reactive) groups of molecules that inter-
    react with other groups to form a specific chemical --a simultaneous phenomenon
    called 'hydrogen bonding' occurs between the chains of molecules that further increases
    film strength -- as we see in the list of attributes above. Pretty amazing stuff, but this
    says this one-part aluminum filled primer CURES rather than dries like regular 1-part.
    Who's going to try it as a tiecoat primer. "metalfilled paint PRIMER? You're kidding."

    Begs the question: why can't polyurethanes be used underwater? "They cannot."
    {google ignores answering that one!!!} Why not amazing Aluthane? Assume, with
    continuous immersion in salt water, coating dissolves. What's with this chemistry?)
    There are many thermoplastic polyurethane elastomers, plastic rubber, goops, caulks,
    sealants, adhesives, tank linings and dips - some filled with glass spheres or fiberglass
    - that can be used underwater. These are the only p.urethanes that can be designed
    for total immersion use. None of these rubbers are hard coatings.

    Seems, ebb has learned one thing... Alutane is devitalized with a certain chemical
    paint stripper. The thin tough multicoat didn't die without a fight, came off with putty
    knives and carbide scrappers in obstinate strips. We'll use it again -- with a new green
    pre-prep called PreKote* which replaces the toxic heavy metal acid & alkaline
    conversion washes -- And this time it'll be the FINISH coat!! Love that galvanize look!

    *from AircraftSpruce. PreKote SP is a trademark of Pantheon, an aerospace tech.
    It provides this interesting solution that produces "a polar/non-polar molecule that
    attaches itself to permanently embedded contamination and attracts the {next} coating.
    In contrast, traditional conversion coatings containing heavy metals such as chrome or
    zinc have no mechanism by which to attach themselves to permanently embedded
    contamination, resulting in coating failures such as blisters and outgassing (pinholes)."

    Again, using aluminum filled LabMetal on the mast, and hope that this PreKote
    treatment will give due consideration to my contribution of filler & fairing bonded
    'contamination' on the aluminum metal mast, and myriad 50 year old embedded oxide
    defects. PreKote SP is not a toxic conversion coating, and does not permanently
    change the metal surface... it is an integral part of a coating system. It must be
    overcoated. And I hope it strongly embraces my coating choice, Aluthane! As far as
    exposure to solvents, carcinogenetic toxics and contaminated water runoff goes, this
    pre-treatment is a huge responsible step toward greener painting of aluminum ( and
    a number of other metals and surfaces). Been around for two decades... wish I'd
    read up on it before I chose to use the insane chromated stuff!! Tested by DOD
    and the USAirForce, given their blessing. No idea what film chemistry PreKote uses.

    Read every word I can find on what Pantheon Enterprises says about their PreKote.
    Can't find a single word for its use under water, or total immersion. They do not say,
    Do not use Prekote underwater. Don't use it when painting your submarine.
    (Interlux has a very different hibuild, above-waterline, sanding primer called Pre-Kote.
    It does not carry a registered trademark)... imco. www.pantheonchemical.com

    The whole reason for using a pre-prep on aluminum is to remove all traces of oxide
    and other contaminates. PreKote as an alternative to acid/alkaline heavy metal wash
    is a godsend, if it works (haven't used it yet). It has a very specific method for
    application that involves scrubbing the aluminum surface with a specific nylon pad.
    Instructions given for using PreKote on your aeroplane are in military specs. But
    there's a footnote stating MAROON 3M scotchbrite aluminum grit nylon pads
    may be used. BUT cautions to use no other brand. Instructions are so specific:
    ONLY the maroon 7447 scotchbrite pad may be used, NO other pad color either!!
    Other pads may leave behind oil, soap, rubber or the wrong grit in your substrate.

    A little pop to retain... for all other surface preps... for any coating. MAROON !
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~

    "I woke up after a night's sleep to the tune of a robin on the windowsill. I realized it
    was Spring. It was time for Marlow to take a long easy weekend some place... some
    place where surf meets sand." Raymond Chandler, The Last Laugh, OldTimeRadio
    Last edited by ebb; 04-05-2017 at 08:10 AM.

  7. #427
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Pembroke Ontario Canada


    Speaking of updates..

    Ebb buddy....

    Update and pictures please

    OK....pretty please

  8. #428
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA

    Exclamation ...hey, wait up...

    Frank, I've been lucky to get Louie to give me a hand painting the deck. Primer is on, nearly
    completed, ready for Epifanes MonoUrethane. Then, to Louie's disgust, the deck will be
    taped and KiwiGrip applied. We'll do a competent job, but not concourse. No time left,
    have other unintended issues changing my course. So if I sneak thru, I'll be in great shape
    to take the tent down and rig the mast with Hayn. Easy to say, but It's happening.

    Wish I knew how to take pics with the iPhone and post them here.

    Beginning to throw away, get rid of, a bunch of the stuff that's stuck to me over the
    decades. Good sign. Have to be in a retirement mode to make it happen. Would like to do
    it without depending on a storage locker. Tons of books, that's the hardest. But you see,
    I have to trick the old curmudgeon to accept the fate of freedom.

    Pix coming, promise.
    ! ! !
    Last edited by ebb; 05-12-2016 at 05:42 PM.

  9. #429
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Pembroke Ontario Canada
    You will find purging SO FREEING!!

    Hard at 1st....but it gets easier as things dissapear.

    So glad you're in that "mode"

    Remember my promise....

  10. #430
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA
    Frank, Can't wait. Things are already disappearing:
    In fact my box of counterbores has disappeared.

    {......days pass...who stole my counterbores....
    what the hell did I do with them??}

    (well, they didn't walk off because they got bored,
    no, they found a fancy new apartment in one of
    those yellow plastic see-through-top, movable
    dividers, small parts tray/boxes... all along in plain

    Hope ebb don't forget to Purge
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

    "... my purpose holds
    to sail beyond the sunset
    and the baths of all the western stars
    until I die." Ulysses Tennyson

    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    And this gray spirit yearning in desire
    To follow knowledge like a sinking star
    Beyond the utmost bound of human thought
    Last edited by ebb; 12-20-2016 at 10:01 AM.

  11. #431
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Northern MN
    dump it, man! As model citizens we have WAY too much stuff in general, and, the challenge of doing things with less is kind of rewarding (except when you botch a job and know you could have done it better with the "right" tool) when it works out good enough to get the job done. As a side note, I just worked on a boat yesterday that was packed with so much stuff that the owner didn't even know what was where. It felt like I was at a crime scene! Glad we won't have that problem on our little boats. "Less $#!%, more substance" is my new mantra-let's see if it takes hold...
    My home has a keel.

  12. #432
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA

    "A little place for my stuff"

    One of George Carlin's famous comedy shticks, great performance poetry.
    {It just naturally fell into quatrains when I texted from his performance}
    There is this partial near the beginning:

    "....... That's all you need in life, a little place for your stuff.
    That's all your house is, a place to keep your stuff.
    If you didn't have so much stuff, you wouldn't need a house.
    You could just walk around all the time.

    A house is just a pile of stuff with a cover on it.
    You can see that when you're taking off in an airplane.
    You look down, you see everybody's got a little pile of stuff.
    All the little piles of stuff.

    And when you leave your house, you gotta lock it up.
    Wouldn't want somebody to come by and take some of your stuff.
    They always take the good stuff.
    They never bother with the crap you're saving.

    All they want is the shiny stuff.
    That's what your house is, a place to keep your stuff
    while you go out and get... more stuff!
    Sometimes you gotta move, gotta get a bigger house.

    Why? No room for your stuff anymore."

    "Gotta get a bigger boat !"

    Wish I was CommanderPete, I'd post a photo here of a sail-around-all-the-
    time cruiser with a huge jungle jim of shiny cruising stuff hanging all over
    it, chrome pipe, dodger, bimini and bikini kinds of stuff...
    Stuff you gotta have for modern voyaging.

    Today, littlegull's cabin top and deck gets her first coat of Epifanes MU 3125.
    The namby gray of KiwiGrip$$$, will be rolleed in islands on top of that.
    Picked the monourethane from a cloud of color chips, thinking it had a touch
    of gray, but it's called Alpine White. Deck, cabin, cockpit and probably the
    sunbrella will be shades of white and gray. No plan really. Staying away
    from beige and blue. Down below, light blues, the lightest red (not pastel
    faded with white which becomes pink) if it can mixed. Perhaps Epi MU
    cream on the cabinets with saten frosted mahogany, but that's a way off,
    I'll be almost home on the boat by then!!

    Experiment with Interlux Flattening Agent for One-Part Finishes. One part
    urethanes, enamels, varnish, It's added to the final coat. 1to1 produces a
    satin-gloss, with high as 3parts to 1part paint producing matte. Epifanes
    doesn't do color satins. We have to mix huge quantities of this agent into
    the paint. Doesn't seem kopacetic. Into an already fully realized product!
    Tip came inhouse, likely Epifanes, through my vendor: SMSDistributorsInc.

    Just that much closer to sailing around all the time.

    LATER EDIT 3 unpardonable quotes for 2017:

    For if there is a sin against life,
    it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life
    as in hoping for another life
    and eluding the implacable grandeur of this life.
    Albert Camus

    I shall tell you a great secret, my friend,
    Do not wait for the last judgement, it takes place every day.
    Albert Camus

    The most unpardonable sin in society is independence of thought.
    Emma Goldman

    For the young person, it is almost a sin, or at least a danger,
    to be too preoccupied with himself
    -- but for the ageing person,
    it is a duty and necessity to devote serious attention to himself.
    Carl Jung



    3/22/17, Joanne (Miss Kids) Kyger dies. Poet emerged 60 years ago from
    the 'male dominated Beat Generation'. But not beat -- a force since, in so
    many lives. Surrounding herself with poets, painters, cats and intellectuals
    -- an informal zenBuddhista, she may have made nirvana, an old skeptic
    won't know. In terms of life after death it means, if you don't make it you
    aren't lost, you can always come back again to the human univers for
    another shot. Her life now locks into her writings. Hugh loss for us.
    She's on her way and won't be back.

    email: "Thu 12/22/2016. Best wishes for the Holidays. Hello Ebbe, Here
    below is {an imasge of} the Himalayan Deodar you gave me for my front
    garden over 40 years ago.
    Here's to time flying.
    And sending you good wishes.
    for the coming year.
    [5-7-5] Just don't read the news. xxx Joanne. JOANNE AND DONALD"

    Indeed... Here's to time flying... to Joanne, to Donald, to her little
    home on the Bolinas Mesa... the big ole cedar in the front garden...

    my tears are clouds of words I'm unable to say
    Last edited by ebb; 07-23-2017 at 06:32 AM.

  13. #433
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Pembroke Ontario Canada
    Ebb buddy....

    How are you?

    Hope all is well

  14. #434
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    San Rafael, CA

    Frank, old friend

    Too many left turns.
    Have slowed some, things happening to the meat machine.
    Still wake up kicking the passion can into every morning.

    Putting the mast together. Sort of figured out how to do a
    red-over-green Colregs, which has a meter spread challenge,
    up top there. Rather than putting all 40" on top like pbryant,
    red might be 20 inches above the masthead, green 40"
    below on the mast -- well, how to get all round green?
    Looked into strip ribbon leds, do-able. But simpler to try
    mounting two Hella "360 all round navigation lamps" on
    either side of mast. They stick out a bit much, but from
    2NM will it make any difference?? Red will be a single,
    and mounted above the tri-color.

    Yeah, know will probably have to reef mainsl. But in this
    mad world: sailing at night with masthead AND deck lights
    all lit up, reefing seems mandatory, so...
    And how to rig the cable, ehh? Found some fabulous 'strain
    relief' that actually grabs and hangs the cable inside mast,
    on a hook, thru-bolt, never wired damn mast before.

    So, to get ready for the mythical sparky, naturally I take out
    the galley counter because the BlueSeas are going in under
    the bridge. Decided the electrical box, that shares part of the
    counter plywood under the bridge, should be separate from
    the exposed part, which we will keep removable by using
    normal butyl tape and woodscrews-- in case those buried
    cubby holes under the counter ever want to be accessed.

    You know, it's on and on like that. Literally discovered, when
    hiring help that Ebb's weirdly eccentric when it comes to boat.
    Knew I was difficult, not nuts. Like many olives think I yam.

    Have a friend who's just retired, she's taking more time.
    My problem solving brain is taking more time as well. The
    intuitive part is beginning to ask should aye trust it?? But it
    is the 'problem solving' that brings in every new day.
    Eccentricity's other hand is inability.

    OK, gotta get the electric panel box glued up... Get ready
    for the experts. Got Hayn rigging, got to get started on that,
    and I still have to glue the rudder together!!!!!
    Then tent down, mast up, measure for sails... no more maybe..

    and I know you are enjoying life and sailing.... and sailing

    Here's the last octet of a four stanza poem inspired by derelicts
    ebbing away on tidal flats. (from The British Merchant Navy.)
    Also SailNet thread Ode To a Sailor 11/25/2013 post 10 (& #1)


    Somewhere there are men with snow-white hair
    Who sit in life's twilight years,
    And often their thoughts drift wistfully back,
    And often their eyes fill with tears
    As they think of the dreams that have gone astray
    And the plans that have somehow failed --
    God, heal the hearts of the men who have built
    The boats that have never sailed.

    Want draughts of strong ale to drown these rhymes of
    heartbreak - rendered by an old irish tune of time forever lost
    - or dirge of a lone bagpipe on the lonely cliff-shore at sunset.

    'O Danny-boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling.
    ...The summer's gone. and all the roses falling.'

    {Can't find anything on Alban Wall. Very well could be
    the nom de plume of an english academic or llawyer.
    Alban is a corny anagram.}
    Last edited by ebb; 06-11-2018 at 08:59 AM.

  15. #435
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Orinda, California

    Photos from ebb

    Ebb sent a couple of photos of Little Gull.

    Hey Bill, Glad we're hanging in there. Watch it. As you know, once I get yacking, like mushrooms.

    Harbor Center San Rafael became untenable, including robberies. Time seemed right, my helper never came back. Talked with Triton boys, Steve Gossman suggested Spaulding Boat works. So there I am after being towed there by Ian... and a boatload of other Sunday breakfast of champions. Then the overblown virus thing. Masy got yanked for a couple projects, including installation of Tides Marine STRONG TRACK (hard as a rock black polyethylene. Sailmaker insists. How to mount on our teardrop mast shape. Strong Track needs some flatness under the Schaefer track that ours doesn't have. So we're adding a strip of 1/16"x 1 1/4" aluminum under the Schaefer to get rigidity.. we hope. Sailmaker absolutely insists on the free-slide option. I insist on a bowsprit. Now have a TROGEAR carbon fiber 'V',which sailmaker wants me to fly a Code 0. Lost argument for two regular reefer-furlers. But will have one. It requires a bail up top to take the swivel. Which I had removed, because I wasn't going to set a spinnaker, ever. So mast down also for that AND added track for the stormsail. OK. Ebb's additions brings boat weight up to 6.000 lbs. Let that be a lesson to ya, mates. Raise the waterline!
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Bill; 05-04-2020 at 02:43 PM.

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