EBB's PHOTO GALLERY THREAD

[ebb]

Craig,
SailFar is indeed a lively one with great posts by many sailors including yourself.
One day when my credentials are in order I'll see if I can rejoin the SAIL FAR community.
By then I will have learned not to talk at length - but in short.

Don't know who gets credit for the bilge pump pull board idea. It's now OURS! Imco it is a great solution for our narrow bilges. Happy to add two more cents.
Like great music tunes, we can build on them and improvise. (I'm on the slide whistle!)
Capt Pauley has a version. Don't know about MaineSail.
More the merrier!

Maybe my contribution to tidying up the sump is a method of making the slide board holders that are merely mishmash* cleats pasted onto the sides of the bilge.
Rediculous simple to make if you have the polyethylene sheet to construct the molds.
The three polyethylene rails that make the mold-form are 1/2" tall. The width at 'top' 1/2". The base 5/8". Tablesaw blade set off square a couple of degrees and the material just run through to make these forms. As cast, the ridges are 1/2" wide at top, the 5/8" width is pasted to the hull. The space between two ridges is those dimensions inverted.
Cut extra 'rail' pieces and used them as inverted spacers. To build the mold-form, screwed 1/4" polyethylenne to the 'bottom' wider side of the rails. The pics above should be helpfull.
Dropped the spacers out and cut the long mold in half, cut 45 degrees at the ends of the two forms on the chopsaw and screwed on short 1/4" thick endpieces to tie the form together. The forms you see in the fotos are about 12" long.
This was made from 1/2" and 1/4" scrap at hand. Could use thin ply for the 1/4" piece with release material on the inside like seranwrap or mylar.
Certainly is possible to make this simple form with plywood and wood strips using wax as the release. Polyethylene sheet is available from TAP Plastics and McMasterCarr. 5/8" #6 woodscrews.

When seated the pump pullboard is jammed tight - when it's lifted, it very soon is free of the confines of the new guides.
This is good because the pull board wants to be tilted and even turned out of the hole ASAP.
There must be a dozen more ways to hold the board, whether plastic or wood strip.


The bilge in the Ariel gets narrower going aft - that means the pull board is at a shorter angle than right angle to the hull sides. I got lucky in this improv because it worked out that there was just enuf room for the 3/8" lexan to track and end up tight in the slot because of the truncated shape of the space between the guides.
It also turned out that the sides of the keel way down in there are pretty straight and the straight molds fit flat.
[The polyethylene strips that make up the mold are quite bendy. Imco it would be entirely possible to bend these molds against mildly curved hull sides. You'd need a good way to hold them when filled with mishmash solidly in place against the hull until set.]
Used doorskin 'L' jigs to hold and position the molds where they had to be, And relative to each other..... got lucky!
Used some "60 Second" Devcon blister pack epoxy - havn't seen that stuff befor - couple dabs
and the doorskin jigs were stuck in place. Pretty good glue that: after set, the ply pieces were popped off with a chisel and the carbide scrapper got the 60 second off. Right....longer than 60 sec.

How often do we get to hand hold an epoxied piece in place long enuf to have it set? 60 secs gives a bit of sliding adjustment time to get the jigs just so.
Could have used good old double side carpet tape but risked it pulling away at the wrong time!
There is just enough outward lean to the hull sides so that the goop filled molds rested in the minimalist jigs nicely without having to be jammed in place.
But still pushed in a large ball of used plastic film between the molds. Nothing moved.

Thanks Jerry!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________
*mishmash: a fairly stiff mix of 2-part laminating epoxy, chopped strand, and fumed silica. Befor positioning the loaded molds on the jigs, scrub the prepared areas with a bristle brush and liquid epoxy. Not too much, just prime. If it is wet, wipe it 'dry' with paper towel. Insurance that
the guides will bond to the hull. If you've slathered the temporary plywood jig holders, pop them off before the epoxy fully sets so that they don't become permanent!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
Went with Shurflo because around the net there aren't many complaints about them I could find. The 1500 on the board has 6' of head
Recently Practical Sailor did a comparison test of submersible bilge pumps - Shurflo came out on top I believe. Surprisingly so did a Rule. The philosophy of the two pump pull-board is a good one (altho my interpretation may be off). And the concept seems to be specifically designed FOR the Ariel/Commander sump area. Any Alberg.
A smaller, cheaper pump sits close to the bottom and does all the menial work. It's not THAT cheap but certainly cheaper than the bigger one mounted above it.... that is set up with a highwater alarm that has a remote dial and mute button.
In theory the big one is the standby and will always be fresh and eager when needed. It would be possible to to mount an even larger pump, but I worry what the draw would be - not that it would matter when trying to stay afloat in the middle of the ocean.
I can't see WHERE even one traditional float switch can be put into our sump? That's why we went with the WaterWitch system. Both pumps should have a manual toggle over-ride in case the WaterWitch sensors don't work. There may be other digital systems out there. Hoses from a couple manual lift pumps also need access in those tight quarters. There's only room for hose ends in litlgull's sump.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
If the smaller Shurflo's exit hose is up into the cockpit, that hose can have a little bit of out-of-sight-out-of-mind location to it.
BUT, the hose that leads the big pump overboard, no matter where the thru-hull exit is in the topsides, it will have a vacuum breaker and
also an accessible SEACOCK to shut the hole. Where and how has not been easy to solve. Has to be visually recognizable and easy to maintain & work the lever. Probably the cockpit port locker which gets fairly regular use.

[ebb]

And grooving with FREDDIE NYLON'S PLASTIC STUDS:
Changed horses midstream [again], assume it is an improvement.

[It's important that the description here won't make much sense
unless it is realized that the window openings were previously prepared
by filling in the surrounding space between cabin and liner with epoxy paste.*]

Thought that 1/4", 5/16"OD, barrel nuts (sex bolts) in 304 and 316 from McMCarr was the way to go to mount slab-on Lexan ports to the cabin sides - no hex heads, nice shiney round heads inside and out.
Had the lexan cut, rounded, sanded, prepped, and drilled with 5/16" holes - matched to 5/16" holes drilled thru to the inside of the cabin where the barrel nuts would be.
BUT then it FINALLY dawned on me that poking machine screws through sticky butyl taped lenses and marrying them up inside with barrel nuts wasn't an option - what would keep them from turning? My arms weren't long enough.
And the nagging problem: how to paint the cabin inside with 50 blingy screw heads poking out around the four lights.....wasn't going to paint over them, was I?

So the natural choice became 1/4" 304 T- NUTS - which also happen to have a 5/16" OD barrel that is 1/2" long but with a 3/4"D flange on one end and really sharp stamped spikes at 90degrees around the perimeter. Not so sexy.
Nasty little buggers...... but could be POTTED WITH EPOXY into the cabin wall.
Found a counterbore from McMCarr (cat.pg.2458 - a short 3/4" bit with a 5/16" interchangable smooth pilot that would, and did, precisely counter-bored the inside 5/16" holes into 3/4" diameter holes.
- drilled out each location stopping the countersink just at the cabin molding!!! Used a sharpie pen to depth mark the bit, and drilled easy-does-it.

At this point plain nutz, prepped EACH T-nut with Dremel sanding disks, scuffing up all reachable surfaces so that the epoxy gel filler had more surface area to stick to. Made up some temporary thread protection by screwing polyethylene** all-thread pieces into each barrel - loaded up each of the 52 fittings with gel using a 2oz syringe (TAP Plastic) and pressed each gooper into its perfectly sized hole.
Was going to use the plastic all-thread pieces to position T-nuts exactly in the hole relative to the cabin exterior - but normal s.s. nuts proved to be too tight to turn onto the plastic.

Cabin sides - previously filled with epoxy goop between the cabin and the liner -
have some variation in overall thickness around the window cutouts. T-nuts with a 1/2" length barrel worked for almost every location (also had some 3/8" barrel length on hand, just in case) - and stayed exactly where they were pressed in wet.
The T-nut flange in almost very hole inside ended up slightly below the surface of the liner inside.
The holes are now disappeared and the surface, faired with goop and 407.
There's NO telltale around the window openings (What stinkun T-nuts?) and there is instead an uninterrupted new coat of white primer.

Will mount Lexan with 1/8" offWHITE butyl tape. Squeeze out is inevitable - and necessary. Controling squeeze-out has to be done by introducing O-rings or washers around each screw as the lexan is positioned for the install. The light bronze tinted lex is clear - the butyl is white - and nearly all O-rings are black or red. Maybe 6/6Nylon washers, which are white. An alternative are 1/16" thick and fairly narrow polycarbonate washers (from McMC) that are clear, more durable, more pricey, and maybe just mo'betta.
Screw length has to be watched. T-nuts are open on both ends.
Could turn them in and run them out the now blind end into the cabin - will try to avoid this as the butyl tape is squeezed to its final thickness.
Each fitting had a piece of plastic all-thread screwed in that filled the entire barrel thread to the bottom of the flange - keeping epoxy out. The plastic studs also provided an indispensable 'handle' for holding, gooping and positioning. And also, screwed all the way into the flange allowed filling the shallow dips inside with epoxy gel. Hard to figure how this ballet is done without these so convenient plastic allthread studs.

Wanted to use a nut on the allthread outside to draw the gooped up T-nut into alignment - wasn't possible.
But it seems the process worked anyway. After epoxy set every piece of plastic backed out leaving clear thread all the i/2" way into the flange and the cosmetic evidence of NO fastenings around the windows inside. The counter bore allowed the T-nuts no wiggle room to move out of alignment. Some are probably out of square - a little. Have to assume Incurable Curmudgeon drilled the original holes square.
Anybody want any virgin sex bolts?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
Don't know if this really wants pointing out.
Recently had a short exchange at an Alberg Fleet breakfast with a new Triton owner who had just epoxy glued his polycarbonate slabs to the cabin sides!
Certainly simple and direct....I think.
Conceivably the immobilized polycarbonate - which is more flexible and gummy than the cabin - could move with heat and cold and stay stuck. If acrylic is used it will shatter, imco, without question. He had visited a circumnavigator's yacht and seen, first hand, lexan lights that were glued on that way - and said to have gone around the world with nary an errant leak....
Only the French can do stuff like that!
If your cabin is 1/4" fiberglass laminate and you cut some holes in it to let the light in....
you might glue some 1/4" polycarbonate over the holes to keep the water out - and hope all movement and flexing will equalize and keep the windows in place.
I still don't think it'll work on any Alberg.... and said so.

The receiving T- nuts potted into the cabinside in the above ap are as immobile as the cabin sides. The 3/8" plastic lens floats on a pad of ever flexible butyl tape.
1/4" PHMS are screwed in through slightly oversized 5/16" holes in the lens with a fat EPDM washer under the head against the plastic. Could almost argue these screws, or rather the plastic lenses, are 'floating' .
Have to hope there is room enough in the thru-holes for the lexan to breathe a little. Maybe no.
I guess we'll have to see what happens.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
* The window openings in the cabin of A338 some time ago had their perimeters filled - the very approximate 1/2" space between the cabin and the liner inside the cabin - with epoxy mishmash.
This fix isolates the window openings from any water intrusion into the liner which exits inside over the shelves at the hullsides in as-built Ariels.
This process consequently stiffens and supports the cabin sides in way of the huge openings. Upgrade has been described here and in other threads.
** Mentally stuck on this material. On going back into the McMC catalog discovered there isn't any polyethylene threaded rod. So it has to be Nylon. Epoxy doesn't stick to this material either. I found the 6' long threaded piece sticking out of a tube in a corner of the shop and just ASSUMED. Easy to cut, of course, but very hard to make it easy to screw into a nut, the end has to be clean and trimmed just right. This material also comes as STUDS in the McMC catalog, Suggest that, if you thunk this single-use method of keeping the threads clear of glue is worth it, you spring for the studs. They easily screw into the T-nutz. 1 1/2" would be my choice.

[ebb]

Update.
This IS the easy way to mount lexan lenses.
And it may not be the best waterproof way - have my doubts because I cheated on the number of fastenngs - but maintenance-wise it IS the only way, because the windows can be removed in a trice, recaulked, replaced without really sweating it. 3/8" p.carbonate is very stiff stuff, it looks impossible to draw fastenings tight enough to bend waves into the sheet. The system does not call for bonding, fastenings are not torked.
Butyl tape comes onsite in a cooler after being unrolled cold from storage in the fridge at home, cut to approximate length with Fiskars and rolled back up into a loose roll.. Still sticky when cold but not sticky sticky.

Place lens on a packing quilt inside up, unroll butyl around the perimeter bearing surface. Use an awl to locate and open holes in the butyl - and from the underside (outside) press thru 1/4" PHMS that each have a 3/32" thick EPDM washer pressed on against the head. The 5/8"D rubber washers seat into a 1/16" deep counterbore in the plastic. EPDM is very squishy under pressure and needs the countersink rim to help keep its shape. Doesn't always work. (PHMS can of course be backed out later and a s,s, washer added on top of the rubber one to get more even pressure.)

The tape is getting warmer the more time it takes to push the screws thru. But the screws get more-or-less stuck to the tape holes and the 1/16" thick clear polycarbonate spacer washer can be dropt over the threads and pressed into the butyl. The piece can be rotated to work on - or break for lunch and left unattended - there's no viscous tube goop to skin over or make a mess! Don't need gloves.
The lens can be picked up, all pieces stuck, and taken to the window opening. Two nylon studs partially screwed in on the bottom row serve as locators to position the lens. Again, NO MESS! Then feel for the T-nut and happily turn each PHMS home.
Miscalculated what the finished length of the screws was to be, so had to changeout longer for shorter, ending up with 3/4". However if hard washers need to be added to cap the rubber washers, the longer ones (7/8") could be back again. We'll see.

Must go without saying that all the time the windows were handled: marked, cut, routed, sanded, drilled and scuffed, the protective plastic films inside and out were carefully left on the pieces. Film got a little ratty and corners came unstuck - but the polycarbonate has to be kept covered during the whole process.
This is especially the case when the plastic is tinted or UV treated (which means it has an inside & outside)
- a scratch on this techy sheet canNOT be buffed out.

As the fourth window was being attached, it happened that the very last screw (really!) did not meet up with its inside partner. It was an empty hole. NO T-nut. WHAT the hell...
Couldn't believe it. Did ALL the holes. So I located the well-used and pretty dull counerbore* and began to drill in the 3/4"D T-nut bore I had somehow missed. Peeked thorugh the hole and saw that it matched the hole in the lens. But immediately hit hard shiney metal and DIDN"T bust a carbide. The T-nut was there alright, but off by a half an inch or so embedded like an aching wisdom tooth. Still shaking my head, that second hole: what happened?
Got it out. Royally screwed up the integrity of the surrounding liner, filler, and ancient cabin polyester - regooped it, rebuilt it, redrilled it, repotted the T-nut - and now the repair awaits primer and the remounting of the fourth lens.
Damn refurbishing gods, how do I get on their wrong side?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
* This counterbore plus one pilot costs about $50. Found at the bottom of pg 2458 in the online MMCarr catalog. Like a champ it drilled more than fifty 3/4" wide holes 1/2" deep in the old cabin liner and new epoxy filler. That would add up to about two feet of solid polyester, glass and epoxy for that HSS bit.
BUT the four flute bit can have the flute bottoms hand honed leaving the sides untouched - as sharpening them would change the counterbore's diameter! For its use on the boat here, its exact diameter bore contributed to the success of the job. It is conceivable that in the future more T'nutz and PHMS may have to be added to make the lenses more waterproof. With a steady hand, extra fastenings can be drilled for IN PLACE. Disassembled, fine tuned, rebedded, maybe TefGelled, and returned to the cabinside. Extra work but do-able.
Might describe counterbores as flat bottom countersinks. The bit leaves a clean flat surface exactly at 90 degrees to the pilot.
[Now have added more pilots and a 5/16" to the 5/8" counterbore (used for the EPDM washer) so that adding fastenings later with the lens in place can in theory be done.[

TEFGEL
[recently Forespar introduced their teflon anti-corrosion product: (not KY for stallions)MareLube TEF45 - 45 refers to their formula having 5% more teflon than Tefgel (making it 5% better obviously!] ,
must be considered to ultimately waterproof this system. PHMS are 316, T-nuts are 304 - in salt they should be isolated. If any screws get backed out they may get TefGelled. But the butyl should perform as hoped: stay forever sticky between the lens and the cabinside, won't let any water under pressure inside (doesn't get displaced), EPDM washers form a seal under each head, and butyl squished in around threads creates the waterproofing.....want to assume the embedded T-nut is far enough removed from exposure not to need any extra protection. Famous last words.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
Bills next post won't make any sense, because there was an idiot's post here, must have been mine - fortunately now erased. Hope this cabin window stuff is credible.
Apologise for exercising Bill's incredible patience!!!!