rope/chain rode

[ebb]

Thanks Mike!
That is good stuff to know!
and thanks to John Danicic.

The 'elongated splice' (we have to come up with a better descriptive term!*) with 8 plait has my attention.
I know I'd feel safer with strands intertwining a number of links. It just looks right with the 8 plait. [Ebb's wrong here - see below.]

When you buy the made up 30/270 it's a single link back splice.
Aren't we loosing a big percentage of rope strength making a splice like that?
Long splicing 8-plait onto a number of links has to be the best soft connection you can make between nylon and iron.


All fiber rope makers seem to have their plants on the Eastern Seaboard. So shipping costs are a real impediment for us over here. Haven't found a chandlery here either that stocks 8 plait anchor line, nor shorter lengths of 5/16 G4 galv chain.
[I don't bother to bring up Lost Marine on the net anymore. Their pages are often not specific to a search, in fact they seem to be illiterate or just don't care. Their prices are often OUTRAGEOUIS, higher than any other cataloger. You'd think the largest retailer would be a discounter.]

Defender sells 5/16 G4 Acco BY THE FOOT ($3.49) - but ships it UPS it at 2# per foot!
They have Buccaneer 8 strand nylon plait (5/8" $.99ft) - 11# per 100' shipping.

Really impressed with that long rope-to-chain splice and have to try it myself.
If I ordered 30' chain and 300' of 5/8" Buccaneer that's 100 Defender pounds by UPS!!!
Actual weight is probably half that.
No warm fuzzy loyalty feelings here.
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* How about 'the eight to eight splice'?
8 TO 8 PLAIT
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SO, what would you have at the other end of your rode?
A soft or hard EYE?

[ebb]

THAT IS NOT AN 8 STRAND ELONGATED SPLICE

described in the article.
Assume is the mother of all screw-ups.


It ought to be,
Don't know how you take 8 strands of 5/8" nylon thru a single link of 5/16 G4.
No wonder it didn't compute for me. I think the splice is ugly as shown. I mean it is not conceptually correct.

OK. so where is that 8 strand to 8 link long splice?
Somebody has to have done it!!!
Mr. Danicic.....?
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Just spoke with a nice gentleman in Alabama at Buccaneer.
When you order from them they do the regular back splice that T.R.Rigging does for Defender. They do not do an elongated splice for 8 Strand OR 3 strand. He suggested going to a rigger. Or a sail loft. He did understand the reason behind a long splice. They've never had a complaint about the 8 strand, except for skippers getting the size wrong for their windlass.
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************************************ HERE IT IS - THE 8 STRAND LONG SPLICE *******************************************

google> Anchor splicing
sailmagazine.com/boatworks/sails-and.../8-strand_splice/

(this probably won't work - but if some computer-age cognoscenti can bring it over to here that would be excellent! hint hint)

Sail Magazine article:
8-Strand splice
By Peter Nielsen Posted April 30, 2009
11 photos, one diagram.

Could think this multilink splice UGLY,
BUT imco it is conceptually correct!
Mr Nielsen certainly believes so....
and many European sailors who have used it for 'many years'.

[mbd]

http://sailmagazine.com/boatworks/sa...strand_splice/

Before and after....

[ebb]

Mike, FANTASTIC!

I guess that makes this thread a loop.

We have pretty clear idea of a modern cruiser's anchor rode.
Even if I wasn't cruising, I'd have something like this for the boat,
just in case.

For the moment it appears that this 8 strand rope-to-chain LONG splice is a
FOLK SPLICE (if that is how to call it).
It seems to have appeared spontaneously in Europe with the appearance of 8 strand plait, the Brits not credited with the invention. We're probably only 3 people away from knowing the guy who first did it.
NO manufacturer has a diagram in their how-to's - which is really quite strange.


Anybody got a deal on a pail of 5/16 G4 and a half a spool of 5/8 Buccaneer square rope?
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Wow! Thanks again for the following post (#7) from MIKE
on Yale Cordage. Have to go back and actually read it later.
Yale takes credit for inventing the stuff - sounds that way. It's now 10 years old.
But Buccaneer's Brait is probably not an outright copy as it weighs a little bit more and has a bit more breaking (tensile) strength.
Yale at Defender is also $.20 more a foot (for the 5/8s.)
Yale also makes the argument FOR the heavier line and its water absorbing ability. But there is a chart that recommends much lighter rope for our size boat. Given our size boat and anchor, wouldn't you think a heavier rope preferable?
Here's where we have to find out about whose yarns have the best UV protection and other physical attributes.

Most interesting on the Yale site are two urethane rope paints, which I have never heard of.......

[mbd]

Here's some more links that may be of interest from Yale Cordage, including lots of info about the nylon brait rope:

Ropes: Anchoring / Mooring / Specialty

Brait to Chain Splice

Anchoring Technology (including a Nylon Brait breaking strength table on pg 10)

COOL SEARCH TIP: Google allows you to search specific web sites. Someone on another forum mentioned this a while ago and I rediscovered it trying to search Tim Lackey's site for anchoring. To do it, go to Google and prefix your key word with "site:website.com keyword" - no space after "site:". (i.e. paste this "site:triton381.com anchor" into a Google search)

This really makes sites like Tim's that much MORE useful!

[ebb]

Taking a look at Yale's 'white paper' on Anchoring Technology, it is an unabashed advert for their 8-strand nylon anchor rope.
Would have liked more on abrasion, stretch, UV endurance, elongation under load and melting. Why it's better than the other guy's.
Tests, charts, something.
3 strand and 8 strand have the same breaking load spec. But it takes 8 strand 75% longer to get there, something like that.* But 8 strand has all those other things going for it.
On forums, the guys who actually have the stuff love it. The rest are opinionators, who don't know the difference between braided, plaited and hard laid.

Guess that 8 strand nylon is NOT a 'high modulous' line. Too stretchy.
Don't know if those urethane coatings Yale has are appropriate for 8 strand nylon anchor line.
Wouldn't it be nice to paint or dip on extra abrasion resistance and UV protection?
Don't you get the feeling that most of our cleats and chocks are left over from the age of manila rope?

Can't trust a bowline in plastic rope. You hear of splices sliding apart under load. Can't hardly squeeze the stuff in a cam cleat - sometimes it breaks where it turns on a sheave. And it can get hot and melt for crying out loud!


google> Cruising World - Getting a Line on Cordage

is a brief intro into the high modulous plastic ropes.
Has nothing to do with our anchoring inquiry here, but plain ole rope sure is getting complicated.
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*It's a dark and stormy night - I'm at the bow pulpit, hanging on with hands, arms, knees and feet - checking out the 8-strand's chafing gear. in a modest 45mph blow:

"....That's 25%.....no, that's more like 30%.......
wow!...wasn't so bad... maybe only 10%......
O H MAN.... that was huge... had to be 45%!!!!"

[c_amos]

Ahh....

The good old days....






1200' for less then $35.... Should be good for those deep water Pacific anchorages.