Commander 227

[Tony G]

Mike,

You are very brave man for actually keeping track of expenses and posting them. Or, you could just be a complete wild man!

The amount is comparably small when considering the cost of a comparable new boat. And the argument has been made here before that one would be hard pressed to find a comparable new boat. Don't get me wrong. There are many boats out there that I covet, nay lust to own. But comparable are few.

Granted, these are not the best of times. Most of us are really watching the bottom line and tightening the belt to keep food on the table and a roof overhead. But truth be told, who knows of a cost effective hobby? And when you factor in passion money has very little value. 227 would be a steal at 10K.

[Commander 147]

So how does that make those who called her a POS feel??? Humble I hope. :-)

Sail on _/)~~~_/)~~~

[Commander227]

Had a beautiful sail last Sunday around Big Island with the SYC's Commodore Cup Race. The Princess finished first in her fleet and Third overall 20 seconds corrected behind an Ensign and two minutes corrected behind an Express 27.

[Commander 147]

Danika Patrick fast and beautiful

[Commander227]

People just keep emailing me pictures of The Princess

[Commander227]

Heres a few shots of The Princess's interior. The doors are just cheap closet doors from the local Home Depot that I cut down to size. I have cabinet magnets to keep them open as well as closed. The seahorse carving in the sole is from a PO.

[CupOTea]

The dilemma around bow pulpits and stern rails is ongoing for me. I have a bow pulpit on Cup O' Tea IV and it's staying there. But the stern....hmmm.

Sometimes when I'm hanging out over the lazarette fussing with the enginge or rigging or something else and the boat is bucking like a bronco on these Long Island Sound waves - it sure does seem desirable.

At 6'3", guidelines are, for me, something to grab pretty late in the game. Probably on the way overboard and too late to do much good. Practically have to bend in half to reach them. That said, for kid sailors they sure do seem desirable.

So I went online in search of a pushpit. Found one fairly quickly from those boys up in Maine. But...I just can't pull the trigger. There's something about that clean, open Commander stern that just screams Alberg without the extra hardware putting a period on an otherwise never ending sentence.

Ariels, on the other hand, seem more "established" and welcome the extra chromeware.

Just my 2 cents...

Scott

[commanderpete]

If you have lifelines, you either have to terminate them on the deck at the stern or at a pushpit. The pushpit gives you wraparound coverage.

But, I like easy access at the back of the boat if you dock stern-to The boat has roll on/roll off capabilities. Landlubber guests don't have to climb over the pushpit. Getting on and off the boat is usually the most dangerous part of the voyage for them

If you have an engine on a bracket off the stern then a pushpit would be valuable. And you can mount stuff on it

[Rico]

I like easy access at the back of the boat if you dock stern-to...

I like that you could potentially use the pushpit for hanging storage, but I MUCH prefer the pulpit only look (NO push-pit).

As far as the lifelines; I feel that on Commanders / Ariels the lifelines only serve to put you into the water head-first... or to make it more painful to go in!
They somewhat limit your mobility; I typically swing on the outside of the rigging when heading to the bow. This is not so easy with lifelines in the way...

Aesthetically; I think the lifelines detract from the look of these great looking little yachts...

If you have kids it might be different... but I take kids out now and then and they are either happy to stay in the cockpit, or they venture out to explore the bow. In a blow they are confined to the cockpit. In nice weather, I think that a dunking in the water might be a good character builder!

[ebb]

I'm also in the crowd that thinks the Commander shouldn't have to have lifelines or the rear pulpit for day sailing.
But if everyone on board is wearing a life jacket, then even the kids should be taught what the D-ring is for.
It wouldn't take much to get everybody to accept that.

I was just with a bunch of older types on a Triton learning how to set up the spinnaker.
I'm sure that hooking onto a jack line if it had been rigged would have seemed ridiculous or sissy since there already were too many lines to get correct and too many turns to make on the foredeck.
But imco some sort of drill that involved the simple act of clipping on to the jack strap, and unclipping it to a new position should have been included.

There is the argument that falling overboard will teach one to be more careful.

[PJM]

The dilemma around bow pulpits and stern rails is ongoing for me. I have a bow pulpit on Cup O' Tea IV and it's staying there. But the stern....hmmm.

Sometimes when I'm hanging out over the lazarette fussing with the enginge or rigging or something else and the boat is bucking like a bronco on these Long Island Sound waves - it sure does seem desirable.

At 6'3", guidelines are, for me, something to grab pretty late in the game. Probably on the way overboard and too late to do much good. Practically have to bend in half to reach them. That said, for kid sailors they sure do seem desirable.

So I went online in search of a pushpit. Found one fairly quickly from those boys up in Maine. But...I just can't pull the trigger. There's something about that clean, open Commander stern that just screams Alberg without the extra hardware putting a period on an otherwise never ending sentence.

Ariels, on the other hand, seem more "established" and welcome the extra chromeware.

Just my 2 cents...

Scott

I'm a little late to weigh in on this topic, but ...

I'm into my season #3 with C74, which has an A4 inboard engine. One of the things I did in season #2 was to take off lifelines and pushpit .... absolutely no regrets. Looks much better to my eye and I never really trusted the lifelines anyway. At 6'1", I can go from a hand on the companionway hatch railing to a hand on a shroud to a hand on the forward hatch, etc. I also took off the cabin top handrails, with no regrets. If I ever really felt I needed the lifelines, I'd be much more comfortable rigging jacklines and a harness.

In general, staying out of Maine waters is a desirable thing.

PJM

[Triton106]

I once met a couple in the Azores who were sailing their 52 foot wooden boat from Canada to the U.K. It was custom built in Canada for them based on in the design of the oringal NINA and the husband will NOT have lifeline installed regardless what the wife said. Bless her heart she went along with it and lived to tell the story. Needless to say the line is beautiful. I don't know what the lifeline will do to the line but I for one will NOT sail across the Atlantic without a lifeline does not matter how pretty the boat is.

[Frenna]

This whole discussion reminds me of a Bruce McCall spoof on an imagined WW-II Italian fighter plane design. From the end of the lengthy description:

"A remarkable feature of the plane, considering its fighter designation, was its total lack of armament. The designers successfully resisted all attempts to ruin its unbroken lines with ugly guns."

I am very hesitant to add lifelines to C231, but the added safety for kids on board at anchor, as well as under way, may be the deciding factor, though they are sure to be a nuisance for grown ups. I hope to have all lines to the cockpit anyway, but that assumes nothing ever goes wrong. Maybe Wall Street should have had a few stanchions installed too.....

[carl291]

Frenna, The way Wall Street is behaving with total lack of regard for investers and cries for government bailout, perhaps keel hauling might serve Wall Street better than another lifeline

[Commander227]

I just finished installing a Hoyt Jib Boom on The Princess.
Pic #1, Not real thrilled on how it disturbs the pretty lines I've been working so hard to clean up, but its only ugly at the dock. It just matches up with the foot of the sail while under sail.
Pic #2&3, I ran the out haul line under decks with the furling line. Its now a continuous loop that runs behind the tiller to a double clutch.(black lines) pull one side to unfurl and the other side to furl with out a pile of line laying about.
Pic #4&5, The self tacking sheeting runs under decks as well, entering through the coach roof then running under the starboard shelves through 3:1 block system then exiting behind the tiller.(white line in pic #3)
What a hoot to sail! The 100% self tacking jib seems perfectly matched with the reduced weight Princess. Very neutral helm and so far I have not missed the power of the 150% as the Hoyt vangs the jib as well as poling it out off the wind.
I'm currently using a jib from a larger boat that I cut down to fit. I've had it on and off a few times to make adjustments. The angles and dimensions are pretty critical as you loose your ability to move a car to change your sheeting angles. I'm pretty happy with the current cut and will use it as a pattern to build a new jib.