Play in Tiller

[bill@ariel231]

Note for other folks headed down the track of looking for an original pattern tiller head... call Zeke at ensign spars, he has the right size.

The HA 1.5 pattern can be made to work if you ask for the pattern to have the shaft hole filled prior to the pour.... If you want an extra strong tiller (like Ebb) the HA part may be a good start.

cheers,
bill@ariel231

[ebb]

Caramel.
It all looks good enough to eat!!!
Especially this time of year when candy comes in all kinds of formms & shapes.
Doesn't the Rostand look like original pattern to you? The H.A. pattern is like comparing a porterhouse steak to filletmignon, no?
Isn't that H.A. just too B I G ?
Think that little machine screw will draw all that metal close togther - too much to clamp imco.

Won't the old fork work on the new Rosand head? If you had to do that?

Anyway thanks for those stylish photos!
Don't understand why that Rosand won't work for us?

[bill@ariel231]

I agree, the 1.5" HA part is a bit too large to make fit. Re-working the old rostand unfinished part will be way easier (it is an exact copy of the OEM part) ...

[ebb]

bill,
Fantastic photos. Looks like caramel - this time of year!

To me the Rosand pattern looks the same as the old one, NO?
Won't the old tiller fork work on the new tiller head?

The H.A. pattern looks absolutely humongous to me.
Do you think you can draw that split together with a smaller shaft hole.
Couldn't move it in a million years.

I don't understand why the Rosand won't work on the Ariel?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________




However the old head in the photos shows some severe resculpting!!!
Imco that's the result of an BAD fitting bolt.
And as Ed points out a bad fit in the keyway.
I imagine the bolthole in the fork got out of round as well.

And as BILL mentions above, we have more on this subject elsewhere.
And the reason for the tiller bolthole wearing is due to steering with the tiller held high. The sides of the fork should engage the cheeks of the tiller head at all times.

One help for this is an radical "S" shaped tiller - one that misses people's knees because the handle is high at the end of the S shape when at the same time the tiller is almost in the down/resting position.
Admiral BILL has a perfect tiller of this type.

A more radical fix is to have the forks recast with "EAR" extensions. The forks would merely be wider at the bolt end (with appropriate shaping) so that when the tiller is raised - as when steering standing in the cockpit - the sides of the tiller still engage the cheeks of the tiller head because they extend lower. I would still have the pattern tiller BILL has in Maitai.

The wider/deeper tiller forks would help to keep the connecting bolt from getting wrenched and bent (tho that seems to me impossible - it also seems to happen). And keep the bolt holes in the tiller from elongating. This happens when the tiller at a high angle is steering the boat under load.

We could look at the bronze as being very forgiving. The tiller to rudder connection is high stress and high strain - better to have bending and wearing
than cracking and breaking. You probably can get back if its bent but not if its broke!

[ebb]

Interesting,
bill and I got crossed as I was editing. Sorry.

The tiller part of the casting is a very simple shape, and would probably be relatively easy to have recast. It also would be a piece of cake to make a pattern

I will either glue on wood 'ear' extensions to the bronze as suggested and use that as a pattern to be recast
OR make a model out of wood and take that to the foundry. If I made it, I would also widen it to take more tiller width, it is only 1 1/4" in the 'channel' in the original. That's really not enough for a hard working piece of wood!

[Tim D.]

It seemed appropriate to move to this thread. Here are some pics I took today while I was down for a sail.
My first reaction was doh, when the tiller was down all the way the slop went away (note to self, get another tiller that curves up as mentioned by others)

But then I realized even the slightest lifting of the tiller and the slop was evident.
Upon closer inspection it was clear the it did not stiffen up until the fork engaged the clamping not. One can look at the second picture and see where the wear is on that clamping nut.

It seems to me that unless it was designed poorly, that it must be so worn that the fork does not rest on what appears to be a shoulder above the clamping nut.

Can anyone point me to a picture of another tiller head so that I may better understand this?

Thanks Tim