Play in Tiller

[bill@ariel231]

Both the ensign spars and bristol bronze parts appear to be equally strong. The cross-sections and alloy choices appear similar. The failure modes for my tiller were dissimilar metals (prior owner installed an aluminum tiller in the bronze casting... Not good) and wear on the bolt holes in the tiller head casting. If you have the original and the holes a just a bit oblong, you might want to talk to a welder experienced in repairing bronze (a propeller shop can fill the holes back in and re-machine the part)

I'm not concerned the original part is "under-sized" 40+ years of service is a lot to ask. My project this year is to replace my tiller head casting with an original pattern part. The rough casting is on the workbench awaiting a keyway and some time in the drill press.

[ebb]

Bill, be great to see some working fotos of how you finesse the new tillerhead casting.

Tim D,
My guess is CHE is still in the Bay Area. Some time ago now I had the rudder shoe cast in 655 over in Richmond at California Castings. They might still be there. They did a beautiful job using the finest sand possible, I got to see the sand box they cast it in. There wasn't much finishing that had to be done.

If it is in business and you want to set it up, I'll meet you over there with the tillerhead. I'll bring the complete fitting.
You would bring the rudderhead to see if they are indeed the same..

[Tim D.]

Thanks for the offer Ebb,
Yes Che' is still at Richardson Bay marina and will be until probably end of June. That is when I am hoping to bring her up to my yard in Mendocino for work to be done.

Do you have the tiller piece that matches my rudderhead?

Tim

[ebb]

Tim, Don't know.
It looks like what I have, ie the rudderhead in your photo.
And we have to assume it's original and like the others in the fleet.
Not quite sure how one tells.

Can we preliminary meet? Sausalito? I've got to get some microlite filler at WestMarine. San Rafael? Little Gull is on the hard at SRYH. We can compare the pieces. See if they fit. Then at least you know what you got.
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Later Post:
....OK Tim, let's arrange a day for you to stop by SRYH. Borrow the tillerhead - take it to yer boat - try it on the rudder piece. If it fits then maybe talk with Bill231 about how he got his cast.

[ebb]

Mentioned above in another post, here is another 'quick-and-dirty' goop product that MAY be useful in tightening the rudderhead on the shaft. (4oz $25 - $35) A truncated keyway with loose key, a worn socket now unable to be snugged around the shaft top, can be tightened up. Haven't used it, but this does sound like the right stuff!

It's a creamy. non-running gel adhesive. Fills gaps to .020 (+1/64") and sets up quick. 24hr cure.
Product literature also says it's meant for worn keyways, loose set screws, and for form-in-place shims. YUP, sounds like Little Gull's.

For us it would be a slip fit. Douse the keyways, slather the cup inside and the top of the shaft and press it in place. Whatever squishes out won't harden so you can mess with it after the rudderhead sets up.

A problem with any stuff like this is whether the hardened material will let go when disassembling. We are not in the easiest place for hammer tapping - that's Bill's method without a miracle filler. We're assuming that this stuff will let go with a couple smart taps.
Maybe quick heat with the mapp-gas will help soften it up.
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Stuff is a single part resin in a small tube - sets up in the absence of air according to the tech bulletin. It's green in color. The strange hard stuff in LG's rudder head was olive colored. Might have been the same filler. Rudder head had no play in it that I recall, nor any problem getting the head off the shaft. It's slick and has tremendous integrity - it was a long time before I realized something was different about it and needed probing. Chipping it out took work. Tough stough.

Tech sheet says heat softens it.
OOPS, just remembered we have a plastic sleeve bearing!! Howbout applying a very lite coat of lanolin on the shaft and in the keyway with a q-tip when assembling and blotting most of it away with a dry cloth before Permatexing?? Think that will be my approach. Close but not married.


One thing: If the Permatex bearing cement is anaerobic and sets up only in the absence of air, how come it stays liquid in the tube?

[Hull376]

Well, I started this thread, let everyone have their say, and now years later I finally did something about my wobbly tiller head. When we last saw Charisma's tiller action, she was ok when sailing with weather helm, but was a bi**h to keep on course motoring. I bought the 1" tiller head from Edson and will put her on this weekend. Oh yea, I'll drop in the new bearing I bought years ago if I can find it! It's probably with the rudder shoe I bought from Fred Pomeranz years ago. Talk about the cost of carrying inventory!!

[ebb]

Myself bought the Edson tiller head
and it requires the key way on the ruddershaft
to be on the exact opposite side.
You probably can take the whole rudder to a machine shop, and
have them cut in a new keyway.

My ruddershaft has a 1/4" keyway on both sides front and back.
Just in case I have to use the Edson.
But it is a chromed lighter duty fitting,
the one I got, consider it only a backup.

DEWOBBLING THE ORIGINAL TILLERHEAD FITTING
Bronze is relatively easy to weld and work.
A decent weldshop will be able to add material to eggshapped
holes that will allow them to be redrilled to new condition.
Don't remember seeing your tillerheard fitting here.

Don't believe the keyway in the head piece can be in too bad shape.
Mine looks truncated, looks a little wider on top than in the bottom
of the slot. I'm not using any filler, just a key that completely fills
the slot, about a full inch. I've added two 10-24 set screws and
2 corresponding dimples in the key, to make sure the key won't
move down the corresponding keyway in the rudder shaft. Used
no shim material in the cavity. Slathered everything with Lanocote.

Remove the 5/16" machine screw when assembling. Carefully use
a small C clamp, attempt to nudge the crack very little to snug, and
return the screw tight to hold, not to try to bend the unbendable.
Might help to be able to talk about it.

Juts get the welder to fill the 3/8" holes and redrill exactly where they
still are in the heads fitting and the tiller fitting if needed. Important.

Set screws to hold the key in the keyway. Also
slightly larger set screws or small hexhead machine screws tapped
into the sides of the head, into 1/8" deep and slightly wider holes in
the shaft. These extra sets really tighten up the head on the shaft.
Hold or lock the tiller head assembly onto the shaft.
They are easy to back out when pulling maintenance.
You really want to have easy access to your sleeve bearing. It stops
wobble and keeps water in the rudder tube from squirting into the
fitting..
Tefgel or Marelube can also be used to isolate metals and keep salt
out of close quarters, but it's expensive. Lanocote everything
including the sleeve bearing. DO NOT USE PETROLEUM GREASE.

Make sure the 3/8" bronze hinge bolt has a smooth shank through
both 'ears' on the head. TopNotchFasteners may be able to help.
Have to buy a longer USmade hexhead bolt with a smooth shank to
go all the way thru the head. Cut off most of threaded portion.
End up with very little thread, just enough for a crown nut and a
couple washers.


TILLER AS A LEVER ARM
If you stand and steer, or have a bunch of knees in the cockpit, and
have a fairly straight tiller... you will be lifting the tiller fork off the
head. Higher you lift the more leverage you transfer to the hinge
bolt. Turning rudder in tiller's down position, the flat sides of the
head cancel any leverage produced. Tiller lifted above the tiller
head puts all the strain on the bolt. Hole egging, wear, and bending.
Bought a laminated tiller with a pronounced S curve, making it
almost possible to stand and steer with the tiller down. Tiller curve
is above most knees now also. Less lethal if moved suddenly.