So true.....That said....I'd love your company out here :-)
Printable View
So true.....That said....I'd love your company out here :-)
OK guys, aye am with you..... in thought if not boat!
I have the hippocampus in tow. Often called reptilian,
mine is actaully a potamus, almost impossible to lead out
of the marina.:o
Just reviewed your work....for the 100th time. As I posted back in 2008.....
""As usual...the 'Ebb-myster' delivers. Combo of designer-craftsman-engineer-dreamer and poet.Looks great!! Keep at it...and not so long between pics""
So true to all of the above.
Along with revisiting this thread, a couple favorite haunts of mine include the threads for Revival, Faith, and Uhuru. By no means am I limited to those. Grace, Princess, Maika'i, and YTBN C147 are but a few other threads I like to read over from time to time. They are not only inspirational, but also a marker of a great time spent in the company of great people. This forum, along with its members have definately shaped my life these last years.
Thanks to all of you!
Your timing is great Tony. I just reviewed yours as well (and copied several pictures). You do incredible work as well and to have ripped out great work to start over shows far more patiance than I pocess !! I truly admire the both of you.
I'll skip over to 215's so as not to hijack Ebb's.
(Enlisted a photographer friend to compress a number of litlgull 'process' photos
to send to Bill for editing and ensertion into the gallery. Progress on boat.):o
ebb
Really looking forward to seeing the photos. Can't wait :)
These six photo composition pages all loaded smaller than meant to.
[ OK, screwed up. This is a first try at posting photos. This a group of six compositions.
They all loaded together like newborn puppies. So you will have to bear with us on this. The first Comp 1 is the first three photos, which I was told I had to text before blindly uploading. microsoft medieval managing]
Notice the 1/2" wood dowel in the top photo in relation to the level balanced on the track-flat?.....
That's how w a y off Pearson drilled holes for the spreader sockers & lowers..!
Next two shots show a sliding box jig marked with center-lines and hole locations. Multi-purpose.
The interior dimensions are straight lines, obviously, makes it real easy to find, for instance, the center line of the mast extrusion. Sides and front! Can be used to lay out any straight line along the mast, not just centers.
For example: not only were the factory spreader cup brackets crooked HORIZONTALLY - as seen by the wonkus dowel - but also VERTICALLY. Top bolt not in line with the bottom bolt. And not only that: the brackets weren't 'installed' on the centerline of the mast! Too radical to fix THAT. Can't blame it on a DFO, only four bolt holes showed when the mast was taken apart. Can see on the left foto of the box jig how OFF CENTER the oversized bolthole is. A compromise fix - because of the midmast concentration of fittings and holes.
There aren't too many 1/2" holes in the mast, guanantee matching 90degree guide holes in the sleeve jig were drilled on the drillpress - 3/4" ply sides stacked - before it was assembled. Obvious, but it works.
Photo on the right shows how the top pair of crooked holes were fixed OK by offset drilling using the jig with more alined larger ones. The larger hole fits a 3/4"OD-1/2"ID s.s. compression tube that the bolt for the lowers slips thru. Cut & polish the ends square for washers and tangs to seat on!
The tang's bolt in the tube can not be tightened so much as to deform the mast, because thread-end provides refusal. The tube also is a bearing in that it increases surface area for the active pulling on the bolt by the four lowers. Thought this a good solution because the new spreader bar, just above the lower shrouds, floats in its thru hole - using the slip-on spreaders mounted tight against the outside of the mast to keep the system from shifting.
Sleeve box jig is also a pattern for routing the 2"R quarter circle (out of the front 1/3 of the 6" length of the mast section) for SantaCruz/HuntingtonBeach FORWARD mast lowering. Jig also locates the off-set 'hinge' bolt that the Ballenger tabernacle requires. The mast rolls on its bottom for which a 3" thick G-10 insert to share mast load is provided (not shown.) Tabernacle is the essense of simplitity.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............................................
Next four same size mast shots, from left to right:
1) Shows bar that hollow airfoil spreaders slip over. Also the new 3/4" tang-bolt hole for the lowers.
2) Shows the new Louchard Delrin sheave and new welded sleeve being fitted. Darker gray is reconstruction material on the track side of the mast at the head, and metal filler used to fair 45 years of squeezing & corrosion by the sheave bolt nut - that also tangs the upper shrouds that keep the mast up.
3) Opposite view of the sleeve. Jig was used at the mast head to check Pearson's hole drilling and slot cutting expertise. Good job there!
Helped layout the widened slot on the front side of the mast. Track flat side widening is a no-brainer.
New sleeve (with welded top & bottom pieces) bears on mast, provides extra support for the hard working 1/2" bolt. Imco, sleeve improves structure at the top of the mast by supporting sheave where the bolt load is. Except for the bolt, no other fastenings to keep it easy to disassemble for inside access.
4) Prepped mast mid-section just befor painting. Shows filled upper bolthole, and location of new spreaders in relation to the original double bolts.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
Next group: two shots of mishmash molding set-up for winch bases - cheekblock bases - and inside/outside electrical fairing fitting (meant to created a waterproof wire continuity thru mast and thru deck (not shown.) mylar and p.ethylene dimensional sheet provide mold release.
Shot with blue tape shows already hard inside/outside cookies taped together for drilling. The hole saw (actually two holesaws) were used (not on the mast there!) to make the thru-mast pad rings for the white Maralon thru-hull.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............................................
[Sorry about the size. Zooming to 150% helps with the photos.]
Set of five showing the ballet of getting the famous Wichard Solent Stay Tang INTO the mast - thru that narrow slot. The two part butterfly tang is ingenious and French and customizable all at the same time. If anybody is interested in this, maybe we can figure out how to enlarge this set.....
1) Where to place the extra forestay? How we gonna run the fall from the masthead sheave?
2) Shows that when the tang is slipped into the slot, both flanges have sharp corners bearing on the mast inside that must be rounded over. Stainless wins over Aluminum every time. (A good portion of this fitting lives permanently inside the mast - any grinding must be buffed to a high polish to reduce chance corrosion that can't be seen.)
3) Showing that result.
4) Helpful scale drawing shows the tang as it will be when inside the mast - to accurately locate the offset for eight fastening holes that have to be drilled into the mast from outside. Fitting comes with holes already drilled in the flange(s) - they were redrilled and tapped for 1/4-28 machine screws. Holes in mast drilled for a slip fit.
5) Made easy hole drilling..... missed one anyway!
The diameter of that large hole for the stay (have seen pics of this tang with smaller diameter shackle pin holes) is 18.43mm[23/32"]
It requires a bronze bushing for any normal sized shackle or clevis pin. My rig terminates in 7/16" pins. Catalog McMasterCarr: 7811K17. Alloy 660 Sleeve Bearing for 12mmshaft[15/32"]. 18mmOD[23/32"]. Bushing length is 15/32", actually this 'width' fits snugly inside 7/16" strap-toggles. And bears well enough in the 1/4" thick hole of the tang's double plate.
Tang connecting pins, shackles, toggles will always hang straight. Good for a Solent stay that will be loose and tensioned intermittently.
Imco, the concept genius of the Wichard stay tang is how it mounts INSIDE the mast - depending on no outside mast fastenings to hang it. Does want those fastenings to lock in the narrow 2-part tang, and keep it from being pulled down the mast. Consider the Solent a backup forestay.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
Last three (reduced size) photos show the roll & tip mast. Numerous Aluthane and System3 WRLPU coats result in little buildup. Mast could almost be a new anodized stick. Little shot shows chain dragged thru the interior on the track side to break off worms from track hole filling. Some idea of a successful refurbish of the multi holed flat - and rebuild to top of mast. Jib-block tang won't go back there, unless a new design is made that gets support from the sides of the mast - it's not full restoration.
Comp 6.
This set of shots shows a number of Specter 150/200 Ventura desalinator modules fitted with
hose specific plywood mounting cases. They are meant to help protect vulnerable units from damage
and also hold connecting hoses in a way that won't allow kinking or pulling, with best access to hose clamps - & filter changing.
Left side, un-assembled. Right side, ready to be mounted vertically on bulkheads in & around the forward dinette seat locker.
Imco the construction style of these cases generates from the facinating & unfamiliar STITCH&GLUE method of kyack and tender building (Ken Littledyke INV, see wikipedia).....
Where thin high-grade plywood is assembled by bending precut shapes and binding their edges by butting them together and holding them with wire thru adjacent holes.
The resulting wire stitched compound shape is epoxy-gel glued at a number of strategic places to hold the intended shape. Then the stitches are removed, the weld points cleaned up, and the full length of the butted seams filled and filleted with thickened epoxy. The filleting is deliberately kept smooth and fair. Cure until firm. Then the whole surface of BOTH SIDES of the 3D shape gets covered with light weight fabric, usually 4 - 6oz fiberglass. This technical quantum leap makes very strong monoque structure for its weight. [an experiment with the method at: TENDER by EBB - Or The WayWide (sic) in Technical forum]
DESCRIPTION
Top two photos. End of system diverter valve: with many choices for in/out tube connect. This simple (no 'off' position) p.propylene valve is the sampling tap AND the product water on-route from desalinator to storage. Brine waste is led directly overboard thru another fitting, usually to a valve at a thruhull.
Next object: primary strainer for incoming seawater. First module after the saltwater seacock.
(Center bottom: thru hose fitting for mast electrics (nothing to do with desalinator) with the fairing plates Aluthaned, ready to install.)
Middle: 5 and 20 micron filters, at the moment without a cover.
Little black pig is the accumulator which provides steady pressure from the (black) pump shown
in the last picture: Inlet seawater pump module. Fresh water charcoal filter for system flushing - service valve on the center white metal frame - and black feed pump to micron filters that deliver clean salt water to the Clark Pump Intensifier, ie the reverse osmosis membrane that makes the drinking water. (not shown, as this much larger mod is installed on its own dedicated shelf in the V-berth.) Where the hell to put all this stuff?
Boxes are strategically cap-screwed inside the forward starboard seat locker walls - with nuts on the inside. Modules are similarly mounted to their case, allowing removal of both at once or just the module. Pressure hose is reinforced clear vinyl - stiff and not very friendly.
Inlet pump module needs air circulation & access - so it's installed athwartship outside the forward seat locker in the dinette kick space. Sliced off corner fits against the hull.
3 SECRETS
These little boxes are all right angled - require no stitching and no fasteners. Pieces are propped together with blocks of lumber or anything handy - for initial gluing.. The idea is to get a predetermined 3D shape by buttering edges with small amounts of thickened goop, letting it set. When you stick together 2-3-4 sided open units, you can easily pull generous (approx 1/2"R) fillets on all inside corners - using a 2oz plastic syringe to apply controlled worms of thickened epoxy. The COVE FILLET is the first secret of this construct. The glue is 100% solids, no-blush, 2:1 laminating epoxy, mixed with fumed-silica. Slow hardener. (TAP Plastics, Premium Laminating Epoxy)
The second secret: After full or partial fillet cure, lay in a SINGLE LAYER OF FIBERGLASS coverng the whole inside surface to tie flats and verticals together. Use a pliable (green) spreader to keep the amount of liquid lean and press the fabric onto the plywood. Butt join fabric pieces on flats when you have to. Arrange cloth at 45 degrees (diagonally) to get it to turn corners. Isn't easy but sure is a lot of fun. Cure.
[Difficult to explain how to apply cloth. Cut to very loose fit - arrange it in dry - then stick it on - wet it out - by dabbing with loaded brush. Try not to pull weave of fabric too much out of shape while teasing it into corners when going from horizontal to vertical. Get frisky with Fiskars cutting out 'V' darts in corners. Cut wet fabric for accuracy. Gently pull it off the wood, cut out the offender, paste it back in place.
OR make a single cut into the corner - down the middle of too much fabric - and just lap it over on itself, covering over the cove fillets.
Light weight fabric has very little thickness (1/32") when wet, and lap joins pretty much disappear... finessing cut edges by gently poking with the brush-tip. Make sure fabric is squeegied tight to the surface of the ply, and itself. Don't forget to wipe the epoxy off your zizzers! Isopropyl alcohol 91% RiteAid.]
After rounding corners and edges, etc. cover the whole outside in a single layer of cloth & epoxy. Let the fabric flop over edges, don't attempt to turn the fabric trying to glue it onto a narrow edge. Run cloth over holes - cut fabric out after set and round holes and edges smooth. Slice off cloth overhangs when dry to touch with utility knife.
Let pieces cure. Detail sand and shape until satisfied. Don't worry about edges not covered with fabric, won't matter. Fill the weave with a second coat of epoxy gel if desired. Leave no ridges. At this time touch-up/seal raw edges with liquid epoxy. Cure. final light sanding overall and paint.
What you see in fotos is one coat of Aluthane - no primer. Because the cases are quite detailed, they look like they might be cast aluminum metal!
The method: covering with glass inside & out over reinforced corners makes an amazing structure, stiffening thin ply, making a seamless cohesive object stronger than any traditional mehod, imco!
The third secret is 6mm or 1/4" MERANTI BS1088 HYDROTECH. Make sure your maranti has the British Standard stamp.
[ I think this technique, including form-fitting to hull curves, using the materials described here, perhaps a size up of plywood and fabric, (if it hasn't been done already!) can be used to fit out a 23-30ft cruising sailboat. Wish I'd done it. Many other uses aboard: light weight bins - lockers - panels - shelves - Dorades - containers of every sort (including lids) can be prefab, primed & painted. If conceived modularly, interior furniture can be installed with fasteners, rather than permanently glued. Nearly everything can be designed removable. A racer day sailor can be transformed into a tricked out weekend camper. And back again.:D]
Ebb, I am in the process of moving east this next week and it just occurred to me that you are just over the bridge. Are you going to be around the boat on tuesday 5/28? I am actually going sailing on Tuesday from Sausalito and could come over to take a peak. Can you believe I have never been sailing on the bay in nearly 14 years of living in SF?!
Anyway, if you are going to be around and willing to compare notes I would love it. If not, its no big deal, I can still enjoy your work from the web.
Best, matt (carbonsoup, A97)
matt@carbonsoup.com
Capt. Carbon, be great to meet with you.
The boat is up the SanRafael Canal, a good way from great sailing on the Bay,
especially if you're leaving and this is it.
The boat's not back together, it's a mess, altho I'm trying.
We are a poor substitute for a day of sailing on the Bay.
I bet it would be easier to drive up from Sausalito to the SanRafael Yacht Harbor
than sailing or more probably motoring in.....and all the way out again.
And the tides maybe not cooperating.
If it is this week end, and you really have to see this landlocked vessel,
it may be better if you tell me when you can make it?
I'm probably more flexible. Maybe do it Monday or, better, afetr Tuesday next week?
Or this Friday (tomorrow) around noon? Or like early Sat AM befor sailing, or after?
I am up against a renewal deadline for getting the old Dodge truck smogged,
so I have to spend time doing that also.
Send me a phone number on the private message channel if you wish.
EXAMPLE:
25°C......................77°F
x 2 = 50................-32 = 45
- 1/10 = 45...........+ 1/10 = 50
+32 = 77°F...........x ½ = 25°C
.................................................. ..........................................
Challenge is to find an instant step conversion. C to F:
(found on internet - if I locate the source again, I'll post it here.)
F to C: Harder but doable.
Can't think in Centigrade, I'm a Fahrenheit fan.
.................................................. ..........................................
C to F: double C → minus 10% → plus 32 = F (accurate)
F to C: F minus 30 → plus 10% → take half = C (close enough)
.................................................. ..........................................
F is literate.
C is laboratory: at zero water freezes, at 100° water boils.
F zero, it's too frikking cold even in Denmark.
At two digit 32° it's freezing, but you got a chance.
At F 100°, it's getting into a 3-alarm heat wave
(while in C scale, it'll be 37.5° - close to freezing in my book.)
Fahrenheit is a finer tuned scale and more expressive.
98.6° is normal human body temp. 104° it's heat stroke or fever,
a 5.4° spread. For emphasis, it crosses a two to a three digit gradient.
Celsius, it's 37° and 40° - a 3° separation. Fahrenheit says it way better.
Holy centigrade! it's going to be over 37.5° today! ....no, rilly?.....:D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fahrenheit is actually a guy's name. Argument is fortified by 'soul'!
Centigrade, could say, has some life... as in centipede, not souled.
Ebb....UPDATES.....pictures..... WE NEED UPDATES AND PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-)
Frank, how are you doing!
Oh Boy, miss the energy of way back then....
But I am stirring the stew. Ordered sails from the finest sailmaker on the planet.
That alone is a huge boot in the butt.
Now have too large, but to hell with it, Hayn rigging....from Rigging Only.....rig da blinking mast.
Ready to fit the mahogany coamings. Still agonizing how to mount the winches. Whether to cap or not!!
Have an enormous urge to paint the mahogany bulworks with the same grey paint that's on the boot top...
(can do that later...right?)(lemmie see, seal w/ epoxy, fill the grain, 3 coats of varnish...then paint!)
You once told me the secret was to finish EACH project, only then move on to the next...
I have seventeen of them going like spinning plates. Ooops
Many have fallen, couple broke, and may have forgotten how the hell I ever got them spinning.
It's always been like this....
This time I'm getting there. Have to....
Gotta quit the job.
Ree diculous, I'm two decades beyond retirement. Getting out of jail without a 'free' card.
Holding the bright image. Feel the tiller in my hand.
Pushing off....oh man... the boat is coming alive..
Pull the hat down, adjusting the shades, here ah come!
Really.
[ Holding the bright image. Feel the tiller in my hand.
Pushing off....oh man... the boat is coming alive..
Pull the hat down, adjusting the shades, here ah come!
Really.[/QUOTE]
Keep THAT image Ebb!!
Get motivated. Learn "acceptable tolerances" :rolleyes:
I just sailed into HopeTown (Elbow Cay) from Marsh Harbour this morning.
Nice wind, blue green water...shorts-no T shirt :)
Ya gotta get your butt over here!!!
Keep the faith buddy!!!!!
Remember...I'm flying in for launch day!
PS....Ebb...you asked how I was doing...
Bad knees, awful shoulder, deaf on left side....but....
http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?t...49675#msg49675
For the first time ever on another computer, another location...
still in the same county....but I'm getting the idea!
Probably will feel too embarrassed or too harried when splash comes.
Probably sneak it in on a foggy morning, me & the crane operator.
...after what I've done to her, will litlgull even float on her lines?...
Frank,
Used yer blue line and followed you & yer float through a couple pages,
a couple far away estuaries and a couple eateries and a couple where?
harbors and a couple minutes on what I understood is a ComPac27?
...couple nice there too!! ah h h yes... guess I've been out of touch!
OK ok, one of these days, some anchorage, there'll be this strange little
sloop/cutter...you'll recognize it as an Arielberg ...with aluminum nose.
And this old guy is sitting there complaining about some damn thing
probably:
....Hey, Frank, whot hapnin?
Hey, Ebb, you finally made it...
(continue this later, gotta go congrats a friend who's just
successfully made it out of surgery......):)
Her's was a rotorooter - a clotted artery, a slowing that stops people dead...
like littlgull's lifestyle of plastic prosthetics clogging the way to a place in the sun.
LongJohnSilver got along fine with a plain wood peg (wonder what wood?
was it silver bound?)...I could've upgraded a rail at a time... and gone sailing...
My friend is real, the Ahreal has no anthropomorphic flesh & blood comparing
with her, except to me...and she, the 26ft one, speaks more to primal breath...
When I said soul, clapped my chest - the seat of the breath, the gift of life.
The boat's sails likewise breathe in the planet's gift of life.
More than a bit scared of foul & fair winds yet to come, I think.
Way more afraid of hospitals, 'senior care', druuugs, and white collar clones.
And the last ten or twenty consigned to professionals...
It's time to head offshore... time to get some of that ocean air.
__________________________________________________ ___________________
I have a feeling my boat
has struck, down there in the depths,
against a great thing.
And nothing
happens! Nothing....Silence....Waves
-- Nothing happens? Or has everything
happened
and are we standing now,
in the new life?
Juan Ramon Jiminez (from A.V.)
If he won’t post his recent progress, at least he can share this:
“My first boat was a 29 foot, gaff rig, reeving bowsprit sloop named SKUA. She was given away some 20 years ago, and never heard from again! The boat was all original from the rubbing strake up. Thought you'd like to see her ... bears some little resemblance to the Ariel, doesn't it?”
{Pg21 #420}
SKUA was donated to - what they said was - a sailing school for 'disadvantaged' kids in
Alviso / San Jose. May have expected new owners to come back with a Hi! and a few
photos of happy young urban sailors pulling ropes or something. Eventually looked up
the school on the web, discovered the guy who signed the papers had a very abrasive
relationship, not only with Alviso locals, but with various bayshore restoration agencies,
and the all powerful BCDC. They dragged him into court and punished him with huge
fines for dumping riprap on his shore front.
Photos, also found on the web, revealed the school office to be a dilapidated trailer,
and a marina totally overgrown and disappeared into a sea of rush and cattails.
Drove down there once: trailer was gone, found a 'no trespass' sign that also identified
the vacated mess as sailing school property,
abandoned plastic boats in the photos were gone.
.................................................. .................................................. ..................................
Skuas mate for life. They are found at both poles and are pelagic. They eat penguin
chicks whole. They don't fish, they take it away from specialist birds. Kind of like
politicians, and amateur boatbuilders.
They are fearless, will attack humans when they go near their young.
There be no sea hawks, but if there were, they be skuas. They are ends-of-the-earth
creatures. When polar explorers see a bird, it's likely a skua sailing by. Back then,
seemed like a great boat name for embracing global adventures and the future together.
When our single chick turned 18, divorce made it a relic.
Took the boat out on the Bay... alone, stupidly... without an experienced sailor to chat
with. The narrow bow and beam, and long heavy bowsprit seemed wrong for offshore,
it's long straight keel and shallow draft gave it an uncomfortable tippy motion.
But the boat was a memento of a broken 30year partnership - couldn't raise sail without
ache in the gut. Tried to sell it. One guy came aboard, sat down with me in the all
teak accommodation below, and told me all what was wrong with my apprentice ship.
Historical photo in the previous post reminds me -- when I see those strangers: new
owner and his buddies on deck, they had just picked up Skua in Sausalito and were
headed south to the bottom of the Bay -- remember at the time having a feeling that
something wasn't right. The clowns didn't have a sailor's curiosity to hank on the staysl
and spread that glorious gaff main!
Man!...cutter still looks pretty cool!
And in a couple winks, she was gone like a bird. The link broke forever. Without a trace.
.................................................. .................................................. ..................................
Jack Boyce and Joanne Kyger, who had property in Bolinas, were building a house,
saw my ridiculous and isolated predicament (beginning to work on the hull at 10thSt in
Berkeley), and invited me out, lock, stock and barrel to build the boat there, with friends,
without rent, at the end of their driveway in rural California. It became more than 30
years of awakening, working for Bill Brown as a gardener, love, marriage, finding
carpentry, curmudgenery, fatherness, and divorce.
Boat itself could not have been built without the support, patience, advice, and genius
of yacht designer Lauren Williams.
Nor could the Skua have made it out of the ...... Lagoon without the lip and tips and
hilarious weekend lunches at Ed Letter's Marine in Bobo with Babe Lamerdin, John
Linderman and the Elizabeth Muir. No one told a joke better than Babe, and John
could recite every twisted limerick ever conceived in the cerebral cortex of the human male.
And later on, the guidance and teaching of Donald Goring at Lee Sail Loft, Alameda,
who so generously laid out and cut on his loft floor the Egyptian cotton we brought him
-- and taught the EX the marvelous exacting art of sewing and roping a gaff mainsail.
An amazing achievement -- that huge sail -- every stitch, rat-tail and cringle by hand !!
Jib and staysl, too!!
Quite possibly never thanked her enough...
Nor the extraordinary sailors who shared their time and passion and know-how with us...
masking tape paint peeling trick
Attachment 9882Attachment 9883MAST focus: OK, So the new sailtrack holes are just done and tapped for 8-32MS.
The old bronze track has a 3" jog between holes -- the new Schaefer s.s. track: 2 3/4".
Could not avoid some ten old holes showing up in the 26 feet of new track cable-tied
to the mast. These voids really can't be redrilled for a larger screw. Theoretically
possible, but they don't show up exactly on target, centered in the new track -- or they
happen to be wonkus corroded cavities, filled with LabMetal, that aren't smart to tap.
Drilled the ten holes at each location offset about 1/2" above. First, wiresize #29 for
the 8-32 tap, in cobalt, thru both track and mast, then wedged up track in place and
carefully opened the new sailtrack holes to match Schaefer's. Then tapped the offsets.
Made a pencil mark at all filled & blank locations on the mast, to avoid them, actually
by temporarily taping the old track back where it had hung out for the last 50 years.
Got a perpetual GaryLarson 'My brain Is Full' coffee mug, for that!
Stuck a small piece of blue tape at the 10 offset holes as eye markers. New holes
drilled and tapped spread out along the length of the new track... job done.
(Schaefer track also has 10 more holes and fasteners than the old. That's good.)
Thumbnail the blue tape....peel back the pieces, ...and...they
ALL LIFT OFF WITH GRAY ALUTHANE COLOR STUCK TO THE TAPE !
Holymoley, it's a very thin 'leaf' of mast -- touch an edge and the gray LPU flakes.
This is your everyday non-aggressive 3M blue stick-and-peel masking tape.... How
can indestructible Aluthane be lifting off? ...Water Reducible LPU? ...seems lifeless.
Must have cut the product too much. But if it failed, how did tape pull Aluthane off
as well? Seems it lifted only the micron contact bond the LPU made with aluminum
paint. Yet multiple clear coatings cured with no cohesive strength.
This is a 100% system fail.
This contact bond makes it difficult to scrub the clear coat off. Various Scotchbrite
pads, water, solvents...and hard work removed some failed coating...but... Tried
the heat gun, that didn't work. Scrubbing with maroon pads also created streaks of
raw aluminum... as did mechanical sanding with the ocsillating Makita. !@#$%!
Thought about using blue tape as the remover. Expensive. And not realistic. Not
Funny. NONE of this is realistic! Especially scrubbing and sanding! @#$%!
Blame !@#$%! SYSTEM 3 for this failure? Had mysterious problems with a 2-part
epoxy product of theirs that cost a lot of time to fix, plus a kind of grief in loosing
trust in a greener company. {System 3 --T-88 Structural Epoxy --pg 17 #325.}
Water reducible linear polyurethane is a huge achievement in the war we must win
over global terrorist chemical corporations killing our planet. We slaves approve
and support them at every opportunity... while they and their armageddonist
brethren relentlessly diminish all life. Played too loose & free with System 3!
Have 5 quarts of their WR-LPU colors ... that now will never be used on Littlegull.
The mast has been curing on burritos outside in the weather, like me not doing much
work. There are endless variables leading to coating failure. Intercoat adhesion:
like perfect coats, weaker or stronger, applied in the wrong order.
Coating thickness, cutting it too much. (Never heard of failure in thinning varnish 50%
... but varnish is usually oil based, not water reducible urethane.) High heat, low
humidity, sun spots... ... Wisecrack that System 3 is too provincial for us down here in
Temperate-ville, being manufactured up in cold damp overcast Washington state.
Technique also might be a cause, the usual:: sterate or latex white sandpaper, tack
rag, solvent uncleaning wash, soap residue, or interpreting instructions wrong: stroke
left to right, not up and down. Yes, but WR ClearCoat operation was rolled on in a
single uninterrupted series. The price to pay for more shiney and more longevity may
not be worth the price, if a system is so picky that a non-professional optimist can't
expect decent results from the time, effort, and high priced investment in what is
essentially a "cosmetic coating for a recreational vehicle". Only Awlgrip has the moxi
to be a chemical warlord in the shipyard... We Normals want paints that are forgiving.
MY ASSOCIATION WITH ALL SYSTEM 3 PRODUCTS IS TERMINATED
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Think about how stupid the average person is
and then realize that half of them are stupider that that. George Carlin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
LATER EDIT. Ebb's first attempt at uploading pics from the pic file... frickinhuge!!
2nd pic shows a green tap fluid I can possibly recommend. Assume it cleans up with
soap and water or isopropyl without leaving an evil residue. 'SAFETAP ULTIMA:
Environmentally friendly, biodegradable, non-staining and odorless. Looks like a
transparent viscous oil, yet leaves no oil on the work.* Contains no oil, no solvents,
no sulfur or chlorine and NO SILICONES. Works on all metals, but especially good
with aluminum'. MSDS is useless for ingredients, as it has no hazardous ones, the
Technical Data Sheet has all the hype just mentioned, but no words recommending
squeaky cleanup. Of dozens, not a single vendor or forum have anything to add
beyond the manufacturer's BS, concerning the actual use of this product!* Safetap
does us no favors: The hype doesn't clue us as to what in hell the non-oil fluid is!
More important, the manufacturer never lets us know what to clean it off with!!
Oh wise one, what's that all about? Why keep it secret?
That piece of blue is a reminder marker for drilling new holes, mentioned in text.
A tap drill has just made a new hole in the mast 1/2" above an old hole that is way
oversized for any screw. Hole in track is then propped up with scrap polyethylene
sheet and redrilled to match Schaefer's. Notice -- on right the end of the original
Pearson bronze track -- one side of the 'T' drastically reduced from decades of
uneven wear. Photo shot before discovering the bluetape peel-away surprise.
BROKEN HAND TAPS
(Most good tap and die sets are 4fluke HSS. Tap thread cutting is done with a bore
that has four thin ridges of cutters and four proportionly wide flukes that collect the
cutting waste. In smaller sizes we use: #6, 8, 10 12 & 14, the taps are fragile and
will eventually break in your work. McMasterCarr has upgrade taps & dies for various
metals and wallets. Also, you should have a set of Walton TAP Extractors in your
kit. They work by extending 4 hard wires down into the flukes of the broken tap in
your work.... which you adjust and turn to dislodge. They really work well getting
the jammed tip out... once you get the pins inserted. In a perfect world, I'd have a
set of 3fluke tap cutters, which naturally have a stronger column.
Check out McMasterCarr's stubby cobalt tap-required wire size bits for drilling soft
& hard metal... haven't broken one yet!)
First pic shows a piece of masking tape that has lifted what appears to be a large
flake of all 8 WRLPU coating layers -- plus what appears to be the last coat of the
moisture cure aluminum-filled urethane 'primer' that preceded the lpu.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
'Official' SAFETAP REMOVAL Painting finicky aluminum requires careful prep.
*So I called up MSC Industries that catalogs Safetap, from whom I may have
ordered. Spoke with a very helpful gal who like me could find nothing on what is
officially used to clean away Safetap. She gave me itwprobrands customer service
email. customerservice@itwprobrands.com
Obviously some huge conglomerate with no time for the unwashed. LO, after a
brief compliment, mentioning my tapping 100 holes.. got a nearly immediate email
back from Jada, who said, isopropyl alcohol is adequate for removing Safetap.
But recommends an LPS aerosol product called EFX.
http://www.lpslabs.com/product-details/609.
Naturally, smelling a rat, looked up the MSDS on LPS EFX and discover it's mostly
N-heptane: who knows, a not too horribly toxic, extremely explosive, petroleum
solvent. BUT, the can is under pressure and can blast 'not-oil' from every hidden
crevice. Page 1 of the 10 page MSDS has a FIRST I've never seen before!... a
"PLAIN LANGUAGE HAZARD SUMMARY".
And so it is. How about that! Imco, Very cool.
* ( not cool, is that the highly poofed environmental/biodegradable product has to
privately recommend via email a nasty volatile petroleum solvent to guarantee
Safetap contaminated surfaces are cleared completely for painting prep.
Especially important for galvanic aluminum, for which this product is recommended.
Nothing in the product hype or the technical data sheet about removing all traces
before next process. Confusing that SafeTap deliberately ignores this vital step.
There are a number of safer environmental degreasers (like EMERGE: no TSP, no
phosphates, etc) available -- none advised here.
SafeTap seems to be so embarrassed that they must lie by omission.
Do not 'seem' to withhold information, because this is what they actually do.)
Imco, offensive & improper. Looking for another 'environmental' tapping fluid.
"Like all valuable commodities, truth is often counterfeited." J.C.Gibbons
Ebb - did you have your window frames anodized? If so what anodizing process did you use? C-025 Bisquit - Phil
Capt BisQuick suh, Not quite sure where we are with the originals from A-338.
There is too much background to reiterate here.
Went the powder-coat route with the big windows... and later decided not to use them.
Altered them to take thru machine bolts (outside to inside) because the bitty #6MS
blind holes in the frame of the original were corroded, and I didn't like their flimsy
nature. Those large lights translated to aluminum were a bad idea. However, to
make them work I felt the cabin sides had to be stabilized. Some of that story is here.
The two forward opening lights are also aluminum -- and I also had them coated in the
same "bronze" color polyester powder, that I didn't get charged extra for, because they
happened to be using a batch that week. There are many little pieces,
Miller Powder Coating (Rohnert Park) did a champion job.
BUT, the polyester adds thickness overall. I ended up with the all important exterior trim
ring unable to slip over the frame. Can't grind the coating off to make it fit... because
the aluminum will have a fit... it'll corrode because it won't oxidize properly. But as an
experiment will grind the coating edge open so it slides over the spigot... touch up the
wound with an artist's brush and some of that Aluthane -- see if it works, see if it lasts....
Once you've coated aluminum you can't afford a scratch, because aluminum will start
to bubble & creep. While a scratch on raw aluminum will heal itself, coated aluminum
when scratched will create enough electric potential difference between scratch and
coating in water and salt to cause corrosion. Even tho our mast and fittings are marine
Almag, observation shows plenty of opportunity for our alloy to corrode. Yet, some
ancient almag cleats came off with no evidence of bedding compound...leaving a pristine
anodized footprint like the day it was screwed on 5 decades earlier.. Some were
intensely corroded along with the screws and holes..
Anodize is best and safest for new aluminum. It's a beautiful translucent, porous,
chemical bond oxide finish, yet when scratched may still create potential to corrode.
Would just start phoning around, maybe the internet, for an outfit that does small jobs or
marine work. Aluminum masts are still popular these days, so you have to find somebody.
Anodize comes in hundreds of colors. If you don't like the aluminum look, maybe there's
a bronze or brown that will be perfect -- especially on some of those original beautiful
sculpted chocks and cleats they did back in Holland 50 years ago. While both systems
are environmentally friendly, anodizing is a passivation process done in huge tanks,
and may not be available for small projects.
Good luck with your amazing project!~!:cool:
http://www.anoplate.com/
__________________________________________________ __________________________
Aluthane, the aluminum filled moisture cure urethane, mentioned previously, could to
some extreme, be used to coat your aluminum fittings. Haven't done it**, we need a
guinea pig! Aluminum, in current practice, cannot be coated with any foreign substance,
without precise highly toxic two part chemical washes, and toxic tie-coat primer.
SO THEY SAY. However, this aluminum filled urethane has, or should I say, is gaining a
rep for bonding with any metal, and many other materials. Whether it will take the place
of chromates and primer remains to be seen..
Am hopeful. This guinea pig has bonded with his original Pearson mast.
Coating has some quirks : It goes on very very thin, if the surface to paint is smooth the
result will be dull, if it's rough, the coating appears shiney and bright! If you returned the
lid to the can with but one drop of liquid in the moat, the lid is welded there forever,
cannot be pried opened. Partial cans will skin over. Skin fractures when lifted, want a
fine mesh paper filter into a new container. CO2 or argon toppers don't seem to give
even an extra day! A different animal, this ALUTHANE. If I had mangy cleats, I'd dress
them in this urethane ....There is a learning curve to working with it: even roll & tip
requires practice, it's so fast. Like other 'moisture cure', once you open it, it starts to
harden. Try to save it longterm for later, you come back to an aluminum hockey puck.
**except for the mast, where the coating seems almost fused with the old aluminum.
__________________________________________________ _________________________
:confused: Instead of tediously grinding failed coats off my poor old mast, SOY-GEL will be tried
instead: it's a safer remover, non-toxic, bio-degradable low-VOC gel. FIRST OF ITS KIND.
Probably digest the Aluthane also!! Should be interesting. ..Stay tuned....
chubble chubble wheeek!
__________________________________________________ __________________________
We have a 100% green Metalco Anodizing, Emeryville, Calif. that specializes in clear,
bronze, and black anodizing. Haven't contacted them.
later EDIT: Talked with Metalco about bringing in projects. No problem with 6061-T-6
with any welding done using 5356 filler rod... for clear anodizing. Or Almag, I'd guess.
Believe their process is a sulfuric acid base, but they produce no toxic waste, and the
plant is near residential neighborhoods. Most anodizers use sulfuric acid which produces
the clear coat we see on masts and booms.
Sulfuric acid hardcoat triple dip oxide process thickens overall dimensions, and can
also repair worn surfaces. Type I chromic acid process produces a very thin anodize that
does not thicken the work, but doesn't provide much abrasion resistance either.
Would be interesting to see what happens when some well preserved Ariel/Commander
Almag chocks and cleats get treated to a nice bronze hardcoat anodized process!!
:eek: TRIAL OF SOY-GEL PAINT REMOVER. Tale of two strippers.
W-a-y past my project sanding days. Orbital Makita and Bosch disks didn't really
want to off the failed System3 WR-LPU clear coat... Looked around the web: found
this yummy SOY-GEL stripper. Local paint stores don't have it. Nor online marine or
paint suppliers. Got 2 qts - and a bottle of recommended EMERGE degreaser - from
Rockler ($70 incl S&H). Brushed it on thick as it would go per instructions, covered
it with plastic film, watched the surface crinkle in some places, but not all over... for
a couple days. Pulled the film, spent hours, a whole day, scraping the clear coat
and a little of the Aluthane off. Wash down with detergent and nylon pads......
Turns out this was stage one of the 'process'. (2qts for 44sqft of mast surface.)
The coating didn't turn into cottage cheese, as the product video shows. In places it
lifted bubbly skin of still fairly tough coating... and at others just ignored it. Now
committed (what nut house is this?)... figured I needed at least a gallon more gel.
Rockler took forever getting to me. Lo and behold: found it in McMasterCarr, who
delivered a gallon next day, pronto. ($90 incl S&H)!!!
Slopped on 2 more heavy coats, with 2 more episodes of scraping layers of sticky
skin that the stripper merely lifted rather than convert into that more appetizing
cottage cheese, magically wiped off with handfuls of towels the video shows. Each
installment also got scrubbed down with detergent and nylon pads.... The Soy-Gel
leaves a kind of oily residue. Used non-toxic Emerge degreaser after 3rd scrub down.
Realize we are talking about removing urethane. But it's advertised to easily do that.
Realized at the beginning that using a stripper would probably mean taking all coating
off, because the action of stripper is to degrade whatever it penetrates. Penetration
was and is an unknown. In this case: dashed expectations, disappointing experience,
a lot of work, lots of bucks. Been smarter to grind off the bloody failed LPU leaving
most of the Aluthane. Got taken again, by my brain pilot, who seems to be loosing it...
But it does show just how tough the metallic Aluthane is. That's one lonely thing.
Stripping paint asks for trouble. Depressing! ....this event also degraded ALL the
Lab-metal repairs on the mast! The naked and now reversed mast looks horrible,
quite literally, back to its original painful state. Old pits, corrosions, forensic voids that
Lab-metal compound transformed to like-new again, turns out nothing more than a
cosmetic facial... like those fem-crèmmercials on tv... same old face under the paste.
Alvin, an old welding products company (1950s), produces helpful cans of heat-proof
lotions and this particular rather toxic "metal repair" paste... I did have fun with it.
Even tho it's high heat paste,*it still is epoxy. Which Soy-Gel destroyed!!!
MECHAICALLY FILLING MAST TRACK HOLES
Used the compound to plug the hundred+ old sail track holes. None survived the
remover, all softened back to paste. :cool: >Using a #1 drillbit, found bright metal in
nearly all the old holes for a 1/4-28 tap - which cut 3 1/2 threads in the mast's 1/8"
thickness. Now plugged with a tiny disk of aluminum all-thread stud. McMasterCarr
came through with 1" 1/4-28 aluminum 6061 all-thread studs! ($6.61 for 25)
Piece of cake. {I know: seen that guy do it with a die on a long piece of all-thread!}
Art brushed epoxy into new-thread holes and ends of the studs, inserted each into
its final resting place, gave each 3.5 twists -- let them cure, ground them off flush.
Somewhere else on the planet 1" 1/4-28 aluminum studs are being used... for what?
Can not recommend Soy-Gel. Besides being a botch and odd performer, weeks
of work: on a boat, do we ever want to use a paint stripper that eats epoxy?**
It has that one good thing going for it: it's kind on your skin (found it does a good
job painlessly removing oil from the skin of my hands). It is a paint remover: clear
colored, nearly odorless, makes it easy to track. Gets on gloves and places like door
& tool handles, easy to pick up by accident, carry to other places, like eyes and
pets and food.
Bye bye Soy-Gel.! But it did not touch the Durafix repairs. Notably, that white
death oxide disaster above the shevebox where the curved tang for foresail blocks
originally fastened. Mast metal... just gone. In that space, created an awkward fill
using 730F aluminum alloy sticks and Mapp gas. Embarrassing to see it revealed
again, yet looks like the alloy managed to 'weld' the sides of the missing track-flat
together... like it bridged to good aluminum on each side. Nothing will attach there.
Mid mast, two large Lab-metal filled holes also fell out. Have an idea (o-oh!) how
to get them filled... permanently with Durafix.
__________________________________________________ _________________
**All paint removers are bombs. Destroy everything down to the ground. Some
are fast, some slow, some are advertised as gentle on the original gel-coat. We
are well past that issue now. Most skippers have removed all their old bottom paint.
And then waterproofed the old gel-coat with an epoxy hardcoat barrier. There are
dozens of removers. Toxic, caustic, new gen -- all chemical. There is no chemical
stripper that will not attack epoxy. >>There's one: DumondPeelAway, which I
once used on litlgull's bottom... life changing experience never to be visited again:
Red can PeelAwayMarineStrip (NOT "SafetyStrip".)...watch your colors....is the
non toxic, non-carcinogenic, zero VOC, non flammable stripper that will non remove
epoxy barrier coat, if you don't leave it on too long. PeelAway paste is troweled
on, covered with 'laminated paper', which combines with "30 coats" of any paint.
That is then troweled off. But some areas must be done over, not all comes off.
Ran out of paper-film, plain plastic doesn't work as well. Days, weeks...real bulky
mess under the boat.... the result, if you did put down black plastic under the boat,
is like dealing with a couple dead horses. If not toxic, it looks toxic... heavy, sloppy,
slimey, sodden, disgusting mess... that has to go to the dump, if you disguise it.
Then you hose and scrub down, neutralize with Citri-Lize and hose it again. $$$$
Ariel bottom wetted area = 250sqft = 5gal + extra paper. (Had to get more...)
Two gallons troweled on the Mast may have been more sane... doubt it.
Nobody on the web likes PeelAway -- except Practical Sailor -- who in 2006
compared it with nine others using a one square foot(!) layout sample for each....
on an actual boat with "several layers" of anti-fouling. Practical Joke for the DIYr .
google: Past Adventures With Chemical Strippers - Practical Sailor. Half fast!
The yard requires a vacuum sander - this method probably is the cleanest (not
the quietest) way yet -- requires expensive equipment and young arms.[/I]
__________________________________________________ ___________________
*Alvin Lab-metal MSDS http://www.alvinproducts.com/
"Section 2 Hazard(s)......................................... ...... Aluminum Powder 51.98%
.................................................. ............................Methyl Ethyl Ketone 9.77%
.................................................. .............Toluene (Haps) 8.94%" = 70.69% "
(separate can...Lab-metal Solvent:.............................. 52% toluene, 48% acetone)
70.69%...no mention what the remainder is. Somewhere in the lit we see this clue:
"there's no need to mix two parts of the repair paste". Regular Lab-metal repairs can
be powder coated to 425F. Also available, is a separate super heat resistant Lab-
metal that will take over 1000F!! Because of this durability, the missing binder didn't
register as a one-legged epoxy to my po' little gray cells... Never mentioned in the
MSDS, the Data Sheet or Brochure that the missing percentage: 29.31%, is actually
non-hazardous epoxy or epoxyester... which !@#$%! SoyGel sucked the life out of..
WOW, do I make a mess of things!
http://www.alvinproducts.com/ Just above JayLeno click: Powder Coaters Click Here.
You'll find a YouTube and a couple important tips about solvents, the product tag is
'epoxy putty'. Find lists for its uses, but nowhere does it say what can be coated
over Lab-metal. "Acetone & MEK will soften hardened Lab-metal." Both of these
are ketones. Ketones are the hot side of solvents and lacquer paints: the aromatics.
Aliphatics, generally not as lethal and by default may be OK, enamels & coatings
that use mineral spirits, VM&P naptha & hexanes. Gasoline and kerosene also aliphatic.
__________________________________________________ __________
"Writing, I explained, was mainly an attempt to out-argue one's past;
to present events in such a light that battles lost in life were either won
on paper or held to a draw." Jules Feifer
GulfCoastPaint MCU--100 PRIMER/FINISH is its other name. It's been discovered by many
skippers, primarily because it is available in quart cans from epoxyproducts.com. Some of
mine here, it is an extraordinary coating, very different from any other we use around the
boat, requiring imco an application learning curve (see post 424 for some surprises.)
It is an industrial paint so maybe we can expect excellent longevity and weatherability.
Aluthane coating is both finish and primer -- perhaps the manufacturer is not entirely sure
what this coating can do. You can print out a two page 'brochure' from their site, 1/2 of
which are photos of gigantic industrial plants. But it's already obvious that this coating is
a marvel, a big deal, and yet to find its full potential. I picked up a readable inhouse safety
data sheet off pauloman's epoxyproducts site (but don't know how.) It is here we find the
three (there may be more, Stirling seems to have one like this) commercial names for this
aluminum paint revealed: Gulfthane, MCU-100 Primer/Finish, and ALUTHANE.
It's gotten around in other circles...
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
"A one component, Moisture Curved Polyurethane Aluminum Coating. Has excellent
adhesion to sound, tightly adherent rusty steel, and other marginally prepared surfaces.
This low viscosity, high 'wetting' coating undergoes a rapid molecular weight change as it
polymerizes into a high molecular weight finish which provides excellent corrosion and
abrasion resistance. Its resistance to creeping, undercutting, and blistering is superior to
epoxy primers. MCU-100 is also a barrier primer or tie coat to prevent lifting of strong
solvent top coats over conventional coatings, and most chemical coatings.
PRODUCT FEATURES
1. Primer for all types of surfaces.
2. Excellent 'wetting out' properties over sound, rusty steel.
3. Fast recoating, 1-2hrs.
4. Cures down to 18F on dry surfaces.
5. Excellent corrosion resistance, passed 1,200 hours in salt cabinet.
6. One package. Easy to use
7. Outstanding abrasion resistance
8. May be topcoated with most generic type coatings
9. Very good weather resistance.
10. High heat, up to 400F dry.
11. Excellent as a barrier coat over lead based coatings."
SINCE WHEN ARE URETHANES CONSIDERED PRIMERS ?
This should open up possibilities for any doubter. As a 'primer', still not sure about how
one goes about adding a series of 'generic' coats to polyurethane... which I always
assumed was the final sweat achievement . Peculiarly, this kind of utilitarian MCU rolls
on very very thin like LPU, but isn't bling. NO mention of above/below waterlines.
Abrasion resistance may suggest rubbing down with nylon/grit pad. *
TECH DATA for thinner is an inhouse 'SA-50'. MSDS reveals xylene is a major ingredient.
Certainly didn't need thinner when doing the mast. Most sustained use I've had with it.
Now, prime use for this urethane has been for dressing corroded steel pilings in water.
Do we assume salt water? Which as we know can entirely erase steel from the planet.
In coating our boats we are always aware what primers are OK below the waterline.
There is no caution that this primer cannot be used underwater. No words to that
effect. Many a neglected aluminum skiff has been born again with a single coat of
Aluthane. (Later EDIT: Just talked with manufacture's rep at GulfCoastPaintMfg, the
makers of MCU-100 (Aluthane). He didn't know why we cannot use urethane paint
underwater. He did say that any urethane, including LPU, can be topcoated with any
other paint system. Therefor you can say, it's a 'primer'. However, he would not advise
using Aluthane as a primer on the bottom of a boat, even if topcoated with a twopart
epoxy OR a hard bottom paint... but didn't know WHY? Don't like this kind of mystery.)
If you like a galvanize look, this coating will look exactly as you rolled it on 10 years
later. Don't know that totally for fact: took a couple rusty hardware store thin sheet
metal horses, the kind that start rusting out the door... had some Aluthane left over,
hurriedly rolled it over dirt, dust, rust, bird droppings and spider webs. Transformation
is still a minor miracle: bird droppings still encapsulated, and today, years later, they
look just painted. Amazing to me is that an aluminum filled paint is used directly over
and within the rough rust on steel -- and yet doesn't create a battery... these two are
in no way close friends around the galvanic table.
Assumed that polyurethanes are always two part. Here we see one-pot referred to
as 'poly'. On a molecular level urethanes are films made of polymers fused together at
highly reactive poly-isocyanate sites, forming strong bonds known as chains.
Moisture causes the reaction that creates amines which combine with isocyanates that
cure into urea that bonds chains together The process releases CO2. Isocyanates are
hazardous organic compounds of 'functional' (reactive) groups of molecules that inter-
react with other groups to form a specific chemical --a simultaneous phenomenon
called 'hydrogen bonding' occurs between the chains of molecules that further increases
film strength -- as we see in the list of attributes above. Pretty amazing stuff, but this
says this one-part aluminum filled primer CURES rather than dries like regular 1-part.
Who's going to try it as a tiecoat primer. "metalfilled paint PRIMER? You're kidding."
Begs the question: why can't polyurethanes be used underwater? "They cannot."
{google ignores answering that one!!!} Why not amazing Aluthane? Assume, with
continuous immersion in salt water, coating dissolves. What's with this chemistry?)
There are many thermoplastic polyurethane elastomers, plastic rubber, goops, caulks,
sealants, adhesives, tank linings and dips - some filled with glass spheres or fiberglass
- that can be used underwater. These are the only p.urethanes that can be designed
for total immersion use. None of these rubbers are hard coatings.
Seems, ebb has learned one thing... Alutane is devitalized with a certain chemical
paint stripper. The thin tough multicoat didn't die without a fight, came off with putty
knives and carbide scrappers in obstinate strips. We'll use it again -- with a new green
pre-prep called PreKote* which replaces the toxic heavy metal acid & alkaline
conversion washes -- And this time it'll be the FINISH coat!! Love that galvanize look!
*from AircraftSpruce. PreKote SP is a trademark of Pantheon, an aerospace tech.
It provides this interesting solution that produces "a polar/non-polar molecule that
attaches itself to permanently embedded contamination and attracts the {next} coating.
In contrast, traditional conversion coatings containing heavy metals such as chrome or
zinc have no mechanism by which to attach themselves to permanently embedded
contamination, resulting in coating failures such as blisters and outgassing (pinholes)."
Again, using aluminum filled LabMetal on the mast, and hope that this PreKote
treatment will give due consideration to my contribution of filler & fairing bonded
'contamination' on the aluminum metal mast, and myriad 50 year old embedded oxide
defects. PreKote SP is not a toxic conversion coating, and does not permanently
change the metal surface... it is an integral part of a coating system. It must be
overcoated. And I hope it strongly embraces my coating choice, Aluthane! As far as
exposure to solvents, carcinogenetic toxics and contaminated water runoff goes, this
pre-treatment is a huge responsible step toward greener painting of aluminum ( and
a number of other metals and surfaces). Been around for two decades... wish I'd
read up on it before I chose to use the insane chromated stuff!! Tested by DOD
and the USAirForce, given their blessing. No idea what film chemistry PreKote uses.
Read every word I can find on what Pantheon Enterprises says about their PreKote.
Can't find a single word for its use under water, or total immersion. They do not say,
Do not use Prekote underwater. Don't use it when painting your submarine.
(Interlux has a very different hibuild, above-waterline, sanding primer called Pre-Kote.
It does not carry a registered trademark)... imco. www.pantheonchemical.com
EXACTLY WHICH SCOTCHBRITE PAD?
The whole reason for using a pre-prep on aluminum is to remove all traces of oxide
and other contaminates. PreKote as an alternative to acid/alkaline heavy metal wash
is a godsend, if it works (haven't used it yet). It has a very specific method for
application that involves scrubbing the aluminum surface with a specific nylon pad.
Instructions given for using PreKote on your aeroplane are in military specs. But
there's a footnote stating MAROON 3M scotchbrite aluminum grit nylon pads
may be used. BUT cautions to use no other brand. Instructions are so specific:
ONLY the maroon 7447 scotchbrite pad may be used, NO other pad color either!!
Other pads may leave behind oil, soap, rubber or the wrong grit in your substrate.
A little pop to retain... for all other surface preps... for any coating. MAROON !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
"I woke up after a night's sleep to the tune of a robin on the windowsill. I realized it
was Spring. It was time for Marlow to take a long easy weekend some place... some
place where surf meets sand." Raymond Chandler, The Last Laugh, OldTimeRadio
Speaking of updates..
Ebb buddy....
Update and pictures please
OK....pretty please ;)
Frank, I've been lucky to get Louie to give me a hand painting the deck. Primer is on, nearly
completed, ready for Epifanes MonoUrethane. Then, to Louie's disgust, the deck will be
taped and KiwiGrip applied. We'll do a competent job, but not concourse. No time left,
have other unintended issues changing my course. So if I sneak thru, I'll be in great shape
to take the tent down and rig the mast with Hayn. Easy to say, but It's happening.
Wish I knew how to take pics with the iPhone and post them here.
Beginning to throw away, get rid of, a bunch of the stuff that's stuck to me over the
decades. Good sign. Have to be in a retirement mode to make it happen. Would like to do
it without depending on a storage locker. Tons of books, that's the hardest. But you see,
I have to trick the old curmudgeon to accept the fate of freedom.
Pix coming, promise.
! ! !
You will find purging SO FREEING!!
Hard at 1st....but it gets easier as things dissapear.
So glad you're in that "mode"
Remember my promise....
Frank, Can't wait. Things are already disappearing:
In fact my box of counterbores has disappeared.
{......days pass...who stole my counterbores....
!@#$%!
what the hell did I do with them??}
(well, they didn't walk off because they got bored,
no, they found a fancy new apartment in one of
those yellow plastic see-through-top, movable
dividers, small parts tray/boxes... all along in plain
sight!)
Hope ebb don't forget to Purge
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
"... my purpose holds
to sail beyond the sunset
and the baths of all the western stars
until I die." Ulysses Tennyson
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
And this gray spirit yearning in desire
To follow knowledge like a sinking star
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought
Ebb,
dump it, man! As model citizens we have WAY too much stuff in general, and, the challenge of doing things with less is kind of rewarding (except when you botch a job and know you could have done it better with the "right" tool) when it works out good enough to get the job done. As a side note, I just worked on a boat yesterday that was packed with so much stuff that the owner didn't even know what was where. It felt like I was at a crime scene! Glad we won't have that problem on our little boats. "Less $#!%, more substance" is my new mantra-let's see if it takes hold...
One of George Carlin's famous comedy shticks, great performance poetry.
{It just naturally fell into quatrains when I texted from his performance}
There is this partial near the beginning:
"....... That's all you need in life, a little place for your stuff.
That's all your house is, a place to keep your stuff.
If you didn't have so much stuff, you wouldn't need a house.
You could just walk around all the time.
A house is just a pile of stuff with a cover on it.
You can see that when you're taking off in an airplane.
You look down, you see everybody's got a little pile of stuff.
All the little piles of stuff.
And when you leave your house, you gotta lock it up.
Wouldn't want somebody to come by and take some of your stuff.
They always take the good stuff.
They never bother with the crap you're saving.
All they want is the shiny stuff.
That's what your house is, a place to keep your stuff
while you go out and get... more stuff!
Sometimes you gotta move, gotta get a bigger house.
Why? No room for your stuff anymore." ......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Gotta get a bigger boat !"
Wish I was CommanderPete, I'd post a photo here of a sail-around-all-the-
time cruiser with a huge jungle jim of shiny cruising stuff hanging all over
it, chrome pipe, dodger, bimini and bikini kinds of stuff...
Stuff you gotta have for modern voyaging.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today, littlegull's cabin top and deck gets her first coat of Epifanes MU 3125.
The namby gray of KiwiGrip$$$, will be rolleed in islands on top of that.
Picked the monourethane from a cloud of color chips, thinking it had a touch
of gray, but it's called Alpine White. Deck, cabin, cockpit and probably the
sunbrella will be shades of white and gray. No plan really. Staying away
from beige and blue. Down below, light blues, the lightest red (not pastel
faded with white which becomes pink) if it can mixed. Perhaps Epi MU
cream on the cabinets with saten frosted mahogany, but that's a way off,
I'll be almost home on the boat by then!!
Experiment with Interlux Flattening Agent for One-Part Finishes. One part
urethanes, enamels, varnish, It's added to the final coat. 1to1 produces a
satin-gloss, with high as 3parts to 1part paint producing matte. Epifanes
doesn't do color satins. We have to mix huge quantities of this agent into
the paint. Doesn't seem kopacetic. Into an already fully realized product!
Tip came inhouse, likely Epifanes, through my vendor: SMSDistributorsInc.
Just that much closer to sailing around all the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LATER EDIT 3 unpardonable quotes for 2017:
For if there is a sin against life,
it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life
as in hoping for another life
and eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. Albert Camus
I shall tell you a great secret, my friend,
Do not wait for the last judgement, it takes place every day. Albert Camus
The most unpardonable sin in society is independence of thought.
Emma Goldman
For the young person, it is almost a sin, or at least a danger,
to be too preoccupied with himself
-- but for the ageing person,
it is a duty and necessity to devote serious attention to himself. Carl Jung
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HERE'S TO TIME FLYING
3/22/17, Joanne (Miss Kids) Kyger dies. Poet emerged 60 years ago from
the 'male dominated Beat Generation'. But not beat -- a force since, in so
many lives. Surrounding herself with poets, painters, cats and intellectuals
-- an informal zenBuddhista, she may have made nirvana, an old skeptic
won't know. In terms of life after death it means, if you don't make it you
aren't lost, you can always come back again to the human univers for
another shot. Her life now locks into her writings. Hugh loss for us.
She's on her way and won't be back.
email: "Thu 12/22/2016. Best wishes for the Holidays. Hello Ebbe, Here
below is {an imasge of} the Himalayan Deodar you gave me for my front
garden over 40 years ago.
Here's to time flying.
And sending you good wishes.
for the coming year.
[5-7-5;)] Just don't read the news. xxx Joanne. JOANNE AND DONALD"
Indeed... Here's to time flying... to Joanne, to Donald, to her little
home on the Bolinas Mesa... the big ole cedar in the front garden...
my tears are clouds of words I'm unable to say
.
.
.
Ebb buddy....
How are you?
Plans?
Updates?
PICTURES!!!
Hope all is well
Too many left turns.
Have slowed some, things happening to the meat machine.
Still wake up kicking the passion can into every morning.
Putting the mast together. Sort of figured out how to do a
red-over-green Colregs, which has a meter spread challenge,
up top there. Rather than putting all 40" on top like pbryant,
red might be 20 inches above the masthead, green 40"
below on the mast -- well, how to get all round green?
Looked into strip ribbon leds, do-able. But simpler to try
mounting two Hella "360 all round navigation lamps" on
either side of mast. They stick out a bit much, but from
2NM will it make any difference?? Red will be a single,
and mounted above the tri-color.
Yeah, know will probably have to reef mainsl. But in this
mad world: sailing at night with masthead AND deck lights
all lit up, reefing seems mandatory, so...
And how to rig the cable, ehh? Found some fabulous 'strain
relief' that actually grabs and hangs the cable inside mast,
on a hook, thru-bolt, never wired damn mast before.
So, to get ready for the mythical sparky, naturally I take out
the galley counter because the BlueSeas are going in under
the bridge. Decided the electrical box, that shares part of the
counter plywood under the bridge, should be separate from
the exposed part, which we will keep removable by using
normal butyl tape and woodscrews-- in case those buried
cubby holes under the counter ever want to be accessed.
You know, it's on and on like that. Literally discovered, when
hiring help that Ebb's weirdly eccentric when it comes to boat.
Knew I was difficult, not nuts. Like many olives think I yam.
Have a friend who's just retired, she's taking more time.
My problem solving brain is taking more time as well. The
intuitive part is beginning to ask should aye trust it?? But it
is the 'problem solving' that brings in every new day.
Eccentricity's other hand is inability.
OK, gotta get the electric panel box glued up... Get ready
for the experts. Got Hayn rigging, got to get started on that,
and I still have to glue the rudder together!!!!!
Then tent down, mast up, measure for sails... no more maybe..
and I know you are enjoying life and sailing.... and sailing:D
:o
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's the last octet of a four stanza poem inspired by derelicts
ebbing away on tidal flats. (from The British Merchant Navy.)
Also SailNet thread Ode To a Sailor 11/25/2013 post 10 (& #1)
THE BOAT THAT NEVER SAILED by Alban Wall
…
Somewhere there are men with snow-white hair
Who sit in life's twilight years,
And often their thoughts drift wistfully back,
And often their eyes fill with tears
As they think of the dreams that have gone astray
And the plans that have somehow failed --
God, heal the hearts of the men who have built
The boats that have never sailed.
Want draughts of strong ale to drown these rhymes of
heartbreak - rendered by an old irish tune of time forever lost
- or dirge of a lone bagpipe on the lonely cliff-shore at sunset.
'O Danny-boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling.
...The summer's gone. and all the roses falling.'
{Can't find anything on Alban Wall. Very well could be
the nom de plume of an english academic or llawyer.
Alban is a corny anagram.;)}
Ebb sent a couple of photos of Little Gull.
Hey Bill, Glad we're hanging in there. Watch it. As you know, once I get yacking, like mushrooms.
Harbor Center San Rafael became untenable, including robberies. Time seemed right, my helper never came back. Talked with Triton boys, Steve Gossman suggested Spaulding Boat works. So there I am after being towed there by Ian... and a boatload of other Sunday breakfast of champions. Then the overblown virus thing. Masy got yanked for a couple projects, including installation of Tides Marine STRONG TRACK (hard as a rock black polyethylene. Sailmaker insists. How to mount on our teardrop mast shape. Strong Track needs some flatness under the Schaefer track that ours doesn't have. So we're adding a strip of 1/16"x 1 1/4" aluminum under the Schaefer to get rigidity.. we hope. Sailmaker absolutely insists on the free-slide option. I insist on a bowsprit. Now have a TROGEAR carbon fiber 'V',which sailmaker wants me to fly a Code 0. Lost argument for two regular reefer-furlers. But will have one. It requires a bail up top to take the swivel. Which I had removed, because I wasn't going to set a spinnaker, ever. So mast down also for that AND added track for the stormsail. OK. Ebb's additions brings boat weight up to 6.000 lbs. Let that be a lesson to ya, mates. Raise the waterline!
Here's Ebb's copy of Alberg's new rudder shown in the A-C yacht's plan. For some reason, I can't get the photo to rotate. It's correct in my file, but it rotates when inserted into the post. Ebb writes:
Rudder has a 1/8" G-10 'core'. It's the rudder shape andallows trailing edge to finish in something really tough. Two layers of veed meranti plywood, creating the essential shape. The blade is 2 inches at the post trailing to 1/4". NACA airfoils at 5 'stations' provide the dynamic curve along rudder length, which were actually very mild, as I used only the trailing half of the wing shape. Used thickened epoxy - and finished offwith Wet/Dry 700 Epoxy Paste (underwater epoxy) which smoothed well and provided a light color finish. Rudder lives underwater, underwater epoxy to finish. Splashed before the gudgeon was installed, and sitting in the mud at Spaulding the rudder has lifted out of the shoe and won't drop back in.
Friends, Stay well, See you out there.
Ebb
I’m excited!
It floats!!
Hurrah!!
Congrats!
More pics
More info
Yippee!!
👍👍👍🤣
Please note: Text has been added to post's 435 and 436 (photos above)
Moderator
Good to hear from you Ebb, glad to see you are as feisty as ever. And I would like to see more pics too. Make a deal with you, post a few more pics and I will pull the tarp off of Mariah and post a pic to prove I still have #331.
Busy with another boat project at the moment.
So really great to see these pictures of Little Gull finally in her element. Looking at Capt Ebb's profile, I see it's been a couple of years since he's checked in. And I also see his time here spans over 18 YEARS! I'm certain during that time, he has inspired and guided many more sailors than just me. :)
The years spent with my Ariel have been logged in precious memories with my family and friends. Capt Ebb's time bookends mine by years. I don't think I've ever witnessed such super human tenacity before. But perhaps it was made easier - because if ever anyone had found their "soulmate" in a boat, surely it is Ebb and Little Gull. And she's meticulous and beautiful Ebb!
Fair winds and calm seas Capt Ebb. Steady on. Looking forward to those sailing yarns soon! :)
PS. And THANK YOU Bill for facilitating such an epic story...
I've forgotten how things work here.
Hello Bill
Hello Frank
Hello Tim
Hello Mike
Glad to be here again.
OPENING PORTS
Just got notified: 'Off Topic - Replacement Windows for Berth Portals.'
Myself installed heavy bronze elliptical opening ports, the smallest Davey
ones. Couldn't futz anymore with the aluminum that I'd spent a lot of
time and $$ on.
Obscenely expensive. Have no portrait photos, but do have a couple
incidentals.
BUT HAVE FORGOT HOW TO POST ATTACHMENTS. Can't find what
used to be here as instructions, but also the language defeated me.
The photos are in my iPhone 11. So...
RUDDER TWEEKS
The rudder. Alltho not obvious, the stock/shaft is in its original position.
Which is pretty obvious. The s-glass wraps around the shaft, not
many layers, maybe four 8oz?, cabocil/chopped strand/epoxy formed
the foil bellies, and the finishing underwater paste on top of that.
Ended up with plenty of space for the expanded diameter shaft to turn
free.
But during construction the 2" thickness at the shaft was cut back to a
vee, so that the rudder swings fully without fouling the sides of the
cove in the keel. Ended up with good access into the cove for bottom
paint. Various stage photos Ebb doesn't know how to attach here.
Can just see the 2" angle in the two photos Bill has posted.
Chamfer gives the rudder a full airfoil/wing impression. However the
whole surface of the blade is still the trailing 1/2 of an 018 formula
chord.
Cove-end of keel/rudder post is close two inches wide. Rudder blade
is 2" wide, except for the chamfers, Hydrofoil ends in a sharp 1/4"
wide square trailing tip to cut the sticky liquid cavitation before it
curls back on itself. With 20 lbs alone in the 6' of 1" diameter 655
bronze stock, the rudder itself weighs in at 57lbs on the bathroom
scale. Add our weighty bronze tillerhead to that! Yet while being
towed around the Bay from San Rafael to Sausalito behind Ian's
Sanctuary, the tiller as docile and light as a littlegull's feather !!
Blade does not copy exactly Alberg's ghost outline of the so-called
'Constellation' rudder. C. is a popular name for extreme sailboats.
This one refers to a S&S 12 meter racer that won the America's Cup
in 1964 or 5. Which would be current with the Alberg palimpsest.
Some call it a barndoor rudder. Sparkman and Stevens tank tested
the design extensively. It brings control to untroubled water at the
bottom of the keel. How much rounded corners was also examined
and Alberg seems to have followed the experts. But Ebb thinks larger
round corners will also produce larger ventilations. Since then versions
of every radius have appeared on nearly all yachts with barndoor
rudders including Alberg's CapeDorys. Sharp corners too, along with
a sharp trailing edge, to defeat and control tip vortices produced by
rudder profiles and myriad angles of heel.
Felt I had to add back a wedge of area to the top of 338 rudder - my
gut, not tank-test decision - because of 'troubled waters' at the top of
the blade, especially when heeled. No disrespect, we'll just see.
Consider also that the hole for the inboard prop also creates massive
water flow dynamics that alter any hydrofoil niceties. Full foil rudder
and lithium battery powered electric OB mounted in the well.
But I do like the Alberg 'C' much better. Note that the area of both
blades in the Ariel/Commander Manual page 144 [Stress that this
drawing appears to be authentic Alberg] both blades have equal area.
Doubtful that this barndoor rudder would be built of bronze and
mahogany like the marvelous original. Pearson wasn't ready yet for
a fiberglass one, but they should have been!
Not a Swede, just an ole Squarehead.. can't figure what C.A.Alberg
might've done.. except what's brought forward with what's being
tried here.
Just had a post here thanking the Committee
suddenly erase !@#$%&!
Well, it happerned again
i hit the backspace button
and a long post i was working on
disappeared
where did it go?
No way to find it.
I've had it !
B Y E
Searching for how that might happen using the backspace key I tried all the combinations using Ctrl, Alt and Shift. Then went down the "F" keys and hit something that I now can't duplicate were the backspace key and a function (F) key deleted everything I'd written.
If you're typing on a mobile phone, there might be a problem that's causing a "delete all" command to occur. Obviously, that command is there somewhere. I just tipped it on my PC. I'll see if my tech adviser has any suggestions.
It’s sad when it happens... more sad for the rest of us to miss what was being typed.
Come back ebb!
Thanks, Bill. Company computer uses a wireless keyboard by Logitech.
And a logitech mouse that are so sensitive I have to use the corded
mouse because it's slightly less sensitive, making it more responsive
to me.
So I tried hitting the two closest F11 (with three compacted elipses in
blue), and F12 (with and on/off symbol - a circle with a cigaret - and
mini caps 'PC' in blue). On my home page pressing the FG12 will
erase the whole top set of info bars I have up there..
So, if I hit one of those while also the Backspace, it could be me!
When I type, I constantly double-key vowels and other letters. So
I constantly have to backspace to erase extra letters. Constantly
erase 'i' and 'o' and 'j', 'm', 'y', and other 'companion letters'. It's
my ancient hands and what they are connected to. No matter how
extreme my rage (the more I age the more I rage) nothing gets
fixed on that score.
The mouse, if my fore-finger is not curled exactly over the left
front, will cause a 2 solid black arrows with a dot to appear which
will cause
the page to scroll or drag, always without the ability to be reseated
or dragged back in format. The only fix is to restart the computer
and loose
everything. If it's an email, I have found it in Drafts - where I've
been able to complete it and hit the 'send' prompt,. which
surprisingly they forgot to remove.
That, in a nutshell, happens all the time. Takes time for Ebb to
say what he's saying. Also a stream of conscious writer*, seldom
know exactly what I'm, going to say, or even inexactly. I've
gone back over each line here four or five times removing extra
letters..
OK, not complaining, see the humor in this only up to a point.
I love life.
Hate logitech, Microsoft, and tedious methods of communication.
Hate getting old too!
So let's hope Ebb calms down..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
POSTING PHOTOPS
Finally notioced the oicons on the Quiick Reply box. One said start
photo with a URL. That's thje address of the photo, so looking that
up it says I can used the Photobuckety app[ - now have to find out
how to do that. Haven't been inm Anmtyarctioca before,. but I'll;
give it a whirl.. [sic]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
* "How can I know what I think till I see what I say." E.M.Forster
c_amos. - from SailFar - another hero of mine, yes. And I remember your name
but won't say it here. Went back 15 years - here - to see if you ever let it loose,
not that I can find. But did see an explosion of names and boats that brings tears
to my eyes. Brought a lot back, we were a great bunch in 2005.
I'm assuming SailFar is still going strong. I'll check out if you and Faith are still
together - and whjere you've been!
Stay strong!!
Ebb mentioned that it's large enough to take charts.
THANKS BILL,
Didn't need posting yet, BUT, the upside-down hinge looks pretty good.
And sure is an example of "form follows function." (backwards piano
hinge artistically considered)
Those are #10-24 flathead 1/2" MS with tiny skinny washers and nyloc
crown nuts. Hinge is less than a 1/16" thick - dapped-into the surface of
the composite.
The material is 1/4" meranti with a layer of epoxy and s-glass on both
sides - like 5/16" thick. The phenolic philippine ply is quite stiff - but
adding the fiberglass changes it into another material entirely.
Forinstance the top, with of course the captured hinge to help stiffen it,
has little give to it as a unsuppopted table top, yet it's essentially a lid.
Size overall: 36x32. Frame is 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 Honduras, all corners rounded.
No idea how to finish it yet. Like wood color, also like space, so it may
end up cloud white.
The cloth is cut and laid on dry, epoxy squeegeed on quite firmly. Pull
all the extra syrup in or off the weave. Finished surface is 'textured' and
requires little prep to float on a smooth epoxy coat..
DON'T TABLES HAVE LEGS?
It'll probably have a body thrown across it, knowing me, at least twice.
So, went home with measurements of the 10" tall cubby under the table,
thinking that a wide strongarm construct might project out for support.
It's too complicated, too much construct and even with angled braces
to the hull, table just too big. Also the 3 cubbies would be trashed.
They support the 'shelf' that the table end will bolt to. There's all that
time it took to get it right along that side. So I went thru amazon's
tedious algorithmic money-sucking stalker looking for … a pedestal..
It takes hours. The search constantly leads you astray. When you stop
to take a look, they make a game to keep specifications hard to find,
or secret. Just down the page they line up other kinds of stanchions
to lead you further away from your focus, and to box you in with dozens
of oriental imitations you never thought you didn't want.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THIS WEEK : SPAULDING IS BACK TO WORK
Mast back in boat, with new additions working around my "inventions'
that are not appreciated because they are outside normalcy. Ebb
insisting to Carol Hasse that a cutter bowsprit was desired.. now have
light weight Trogear V sprit extending 3' forward.. requiring at the
masthead a strange extension, by an unknown to me yacht-designer,
as a standin for the usual bail.. looks like a horn.. not my style!
and while I was informed "the mast was going in sometime this week"
wasn't informed that it went in the next day, without my being there.
The business with the mast is to get it ready for measuring for sails.
Covvid, wildfire smoke, closures and general malaise has taken to
the middle of September to happen. Now the just arrived Schaefer
1100 furler
gets rigged and I wonder if the old man will get to be invited to that
event..?? Says it's a 42lb addition to the pleasure of sailing, all the
long stuff came in a gigantic tube weighing 65lbs, I cldn't lift it!
My disenfranchisement from the Spaulding Boat Works guest docket
now seems de rigueur. (I think because I let the varnish go, really
needs help!) And equally I seem to have been disinvited from the
Alberg Fleet virtual Sunday zobreakfasts, socially defective, that's
another story I'll drop entirely, always om been a loner for various dna
psycho-pop demeanors. Do I mean tremors? Even tho I've yearned
these golden years for just easy comraderie, laffter and respect,
I've become a tired bad old grouch. !@#$%^&! (it's 4am..)
Photos to come. Which I hope Bill will post.
..
[Now the third week of Oct. Waiting on halyards. I have line,
nobody asks for it.. will be paying for line that will take a week to ship.
West Marine is 5 minutes down the street in Marin City. How can I
be involved in this charade??. This is professionalism on a stick..]
.
Good.....no...Great.....no.....totally awesome to hear from ya!!
Now...
PICTURES
WELL WELL WELL: Tomorrow 12/3/2020 at 8:20, Carol Hasse' and Chris of the Spaulding
Boatworks will have an open line of some sort and will (she is in Port Townsend and Chris
in Sausalito)..
MEASURE LITTLEGULL'S RIG FOR SAILS.
We've had near freezing temps in the mornings..
and along with spiking pandemics, all kinds of businesses dying, devastating wildfires
[26,000 homes], unbreathable air, 8 months getting the mast together, near fascist
gov't takeover..
Hope it goes smoothly, ha!
__________________________________________________ ____________
Surprised to find out that a hero of ours, Larry Pardey died 7/27/2020.. RIP.
Saw Lin, Larry and Talesine at a boat show maybe 10 years ago. They were
holding forth down below in their famous LyleHesse cutter. Got into the
cockpit, looked through the c'way, recognized them in what seemed like a
tiny dark tunnel of sturdy woodwork, gear and gloom. Had my chance, but
never went below.
Thank the gods for our bright and cheerful plastic cruisers.
Great to hear things are progressing and yes, what a totally crazy Year!
Stay safe Ebb
Pictures please
I know I've checked in between now and back when the first 'new' pics were posted, dunno how I missed them, but - ALRIGHT! Way to go Ebb, she is looking fantabulous!!!
And of course I'll join in the hue and cry - more pics please! :D
I wish I was close enough to come help you straighten out both the typing and the picture posting issues. It is very good to know that you and Lil Gull are still in the hunt, though. :) Fingers crossed, good lord willing and if'n the creek don't rise - here's hoping next year gets a lot better somehow, despite how it looks right now!
Kurt, Pardon me for not knowing if you are still active on the water..
I've gotten old in years and with some problems that come with it.
But I'm brave, and Lilgull will outlive me.
Thus I INTEND to get Lilguil sailing. Her mast has been s l o w l y
(7 months, and totally aware of our plight) altered to accept a
Solent stay and a Code Zero. Yesterday 12/2/20 the rig was
measured by Chris with Carol Hasse' on the phone for the better
part of the morning. I was a spectator, altho I wouldn't have
minded 'holding the other end of the tape'. BUT it's done!. Can't
wait for the exciting invoice!!
[The miracle will be heading out the Gate toward Hawaii.}
I wish I had your help, really do.
Here I am 'homeless' , a candidate for assisted living, and the
idiots still haven't figured out to keep the old folks alive! (news:
outbreaks of 60/80 patients in separate unconnected facilities)
And that's just local, because the media seems as incompetent
reporting whole news, neutral news. Since the assisted are
waiting to die, Their diet, their food is probably incompetant
and indifferent, health is not on the menu.
Incompetence is pandemic. I'm no different. Indifference has been
made popular, 70 million people voted for it, I have never forgiven
the german's adoration for Hitler. It has happened again.
What's in Hawaii?
NEXT IMMEDIATE PROJECTS
Bill wants interior shots. But stopped because I want help from Jose
(a former Specter employee worker here at Spaulding) who has
experience in Spectre watermaker setups. It has a lot of parts that
need location experience in ting cabin. And what the hell is Ebb doing
with a desalinater anyway?
HARD RAILS
Had beautiful set of hard stern rail made with the idea of hanging
SunPower flex panels from. Hard rail will go as far as the cabin
with new bling stanchions attached to the 'bulwark', rather than
the deck.
TO HANG 110w SUNPOWER FLEX PANELS
Been working with a genius down the street here to figure out how
to hang the panels (create a light aluminum frame for each of four)
from the tube rail, to allow the 110w panels to be aimed at the sun
while balanced horizontally on top tube, and carried vertically, and
fairly easily removed when trouble is brewing.
NAVY 6.0 -- 9.9HP EQUIV ELECTRIC OB
And cohabit the solar with an epropulsion electric 9.9hp OB (HongKong)
-- powered with their own 48v lithium. Look it up! They have produced
the 9.9hp equivalent (motor in water behind the prop like Torqeedo)
electric/lithium 65lb OB that Torqeedo forgot. Torqeedo's Cruise series
are trolling OBs, meant to go slow. Epropulsion's so-called Navy 6.0 can
push a displacement sailboat with it's low pitch prop, but also plane an
airboat with a high pitch. The OB is cheaper but the batteries aren't.
$12,000 min, motor, accessories, four 48v batteries matched to OB.
(dream-on McDuff..)
photos?
Hey Ebb -
Yes, still living aboard, still have "Katie Marie" and though she's lain fallow for a few years while I've been living aboard larger boats, she's still and always my favorite, and I've been aboard her at least weekly in this meanwhile thinking dreaming plotting, trying to figure out how best to make her the "One and Only". :)
To that end I'll be starting to put wood and resin back into her this month, the beginning of her resurrection. I'll post something up over in my thread about that soon. :)
Looking forward to hearing more about Lil Gull!
GOODBUY TROGEAR
Have to mention that. Because that labor thing is costing a bundle.
If indeed I do go cruising, some chain will be necessary. Haven't got
a winch and don't have room for one, and it's too heavy to add to
all that junk up front just to have a light air sail, and the chain. !@#$%&!.
COMPUTER JUST ERASED THE WHOLE DAMN POST !@#$%^^&&*(((^$!@@#%^&*)(*^$##%!!
Nice you have your sails!
Simple advice:
Don’t overthink it...
“Gitterdun” and get cruising!
And...
And....
PICTURES !!!
Please😁
Hey Frank, yer on point.
and it actually just erased a singhle line
to hell with it - see you soon
up top on an address bar in front of the pearson address
it says site is Not Secure
Just had this post ERASED mid sentamce
and removed from the site
it's not me and not the computyer
adios amigos
Hmm. No one else seems to have these problems . . . . Are you still on the plantation's network?
I'm hunt and peck. Think this computer just gets tired of waiting
.
(It just erased a second line here) I touched nothing, except the last letter.
It may be the mouse.
It's a death algorithm. Robots are taking over. Humans are illogical
It's time to make a move. But climate change will get them too
When we both are gone there will be no problems
Cockroaches will rule, Monarchs and bees will come back
But all the yachts will still be in the marinas - waiting
A LITTLE BIT OF CATCH-UP
The HARDEAILS have been installed on litlgull (who's varnish I've abandoned
and the boat looks horrible. Just went back a year in my inbox and found
a couple great photos by Mike Klass of Tom Heering's rendition of one side of
the rails.
The pushpit really is two three-legged curved corners with the center open.
The stanchions here have bases that bolt thru the deck.
All sheer stanchions now have welded 4 bolt vertical bases and moved off
the deck to the toe-rail bulwark. Chris at Spaulding insisted on full bronze
matching square plates for the exposed outside. Less bling when they green
over with benign neglect .
It would be most appropriate if the comfortable looking shop at White Water
Marine where Mike took a couple of first photos of Tom's masterpiece were
right here in these pages.
Getting rid of the wishbone bowsprit has caused a cascade of problems how
to support the anchor roller far enough forward and the Facnor tube bowsprit
likewise extended forward of the stem fitting. My intuition is out of
commission. The Facnor has to come from France (via Tunisia). Only UPS
can squire foreign purchases thru the morass of foreign boundaries. Haven't
even seen it yet
The old Pulpit forward legs are taking up too much real-estate. Have a mockup
of the a.roller and it needs wiggle room to point chain and line down the aisle,
because the idiot skipper put a Bomar hatch in the front deck (into the
forepeak.) Keep smacking into unfortunate good ideas I had.. Have no-one
to humor me, I mean to fling ideas around with. I'm now in the old man box.
No back patting, when folks reach out it's under my arms they reach for,
looks like FredFeeble needs help keeping upright.. Probably does.
Tom Heering's rails are incredibly gorgeous, right up where craft becomes art..
5 MINUTE EPOXY - 1 OZ DOUBLE SYRINGE
We've used this forever. Glue mock-ups into 3D models. Recently in the hardware
went to the blister-pac wall to get a couple of those syringes of usually clear 2-part
you squeeze out small amounts and quickly mix together. The Devcon's are gone.
I bought the last one.
We have to cut the nozzle ends off with the pocket knife. Never sure where to cut,
and the cut is never precise, And since the nozzles are placed close together on
the tube, the double stop plug is small and hard to handle. Easily get them mixed,
weld the cap on. One side was always clear and runny, the other is thicker, has
a bit of color and harder to squeeze a matching equal worm.
Always try to mix with a flexible 1" putty-knife. If the weather is hot you have 2
of the 5 minutes.
The more liquid mixes get more runny when they heat up chemically. You have 2
seconds to save your mixing knife from near permanent encapsulation. The runny
stuff really is useless for model building. But use it anyway because you don't use
pressure to get a bond. It comes so conveniently packaged. Like icecreme on a stick.
During the same week went back to the same blister-pac display only to find the
last Devcon was really the last. Suddenly, now replaced with LocTite ounce syringes,
none 5 minute. One 'extended time', which I got, and later read the package only
to find it was a 1 hour set, 3 to get hard. Plenty of time for the glue to run out..
Could not get the cap on the nozzles.
And, I will never buy the Grizzly 5-minute again -- because the cap is tiny and not
sided as most are to plug the right hole without a magnifying glass. I couldn't
get the plug in nor over the holes -- wiped off the mess with 91% isopropyl alcohol
and stuck bluetape over the end. Works just fine, but it has to stick to the plastic
film label wrap. HOWEVER, IT'S ALL OVER NOW, BABY..
PC SUPER EPOXY
Into this picture steps PC-Super Epoxy. PC has been around for 100 years. Not
known for 5-minute glues, altho they have a bunch of glues you might look into.*
The 1/2oz-1/2oz double tube I'm about to describe has no wrap around plastic
label that slides off when you pull back the plunger. You have to do this little
rule after you squeeze, everytime, Sucking the liquid back with the plunger
keeps things neat. P.C.S.E has no film label wrapped on the tube.
* one of which is a cold weather 5-minute epoxy!
Most surprising: the two nozzles are ALREADY OPEN. - you are instructed to
grasp the tab at the end and twist 1/4 turn. pull the stopper out of the recess,
voila, beautiful precise clean holes.
More: the glue is a paste. Both sides are the same consistency, worms extrude
equally. one is whitish, one is bluish, mix until one translucent mass, you
are clued when you've mixed enough. Since it has body it's easy to control the mix.
Use the mixing knife to mound it on a joint edge, lay/prop pieces together, no drip,
no sag.
Pull back slightly on the plunger. (Have a Q-tip handy to pluck out any dribble.)
Put the stopper back in the tube and twist lock-it. Nobody else has this. It's
beautiful. But you see, since it is a soft paste, it's not going to dribble out at all.
And not lastly, the set time is extended 15 minutes. Quite the right extension for
a relaxed episode, depending on the temp.
It's MadeInAmerica, flag and all. There are excellent non-political reasons why
these days that's a good thing. At the hardware, most of the tools come from
China. You want the jobs here at a living wage.
Bit more: the clear plastic blister covering the syringe on the card is very thin
making it easy to slice the tool out of the package. Often a dangerous fight with
a utility knife.
Altogether a 5-minute epoxy that's really unique, thoughtful, intelligent, in that
it's the way 5-minute epoxy always should have been presented. Finally!
As it says across the top of the package: FIX YOUR THINGS PC
Ebb is in no way connected with this company. I'm trying to celebrate an old
product that finally has put a bunch of consumer friendly ideas to work to make
it almost entirely new. You may find the product wanting. I thought the package
showed a lot of real innovation, all the useful little things, all coming together
in a fine upgrade of an old product.. what a relief!!
Litlgull splash. New rails are substantial but will be used to hang solar panels to power bats for electric OB, water maker.. no fossil gospel..:cool:
Spaulding Boatwerks has asked me to move Litlgull elsewhere.
Moving the boat next door to the Arquez marina is not possible.
It is full of derelict houseboats and others. It looks unchanged
from 25 years ago when I left with the Ariel. Can't believe It's
been that long! And will I still be able to skipper the dream??
Either back to SanRafael or elsewhere, It's just as sticky to leave
where we're not wanted, as it has been to make all the illadvised
changes that robbed me of decades sailing the oceans.
I think Chris must have made a tacit promise to Hasse that the
sails would be rigged to the boat. I will try to get him to do thar
before I leave.
There is a tangle of halyards at the mast that have routes secret
to me.. I installed a couple cheekblocks at the masthead for a
runged ladder idea, that now will be halyarded.
Also the watermaker has not been proofed. Stuff I've been
reminded I still must pay for.
This while being scurried away like garbage. They do bottom
jobs and minor repairs as main income. And, now that Covid's
in decline the tourists are back. Troops of kids. And there is a
fleet of Pelicans being assembled inside the shop of laser-cut
parts and fiberglass. Spaulding has more important things to do.
I also let Chris order a Facnor bowsprit for me, still in the works,
no idea when it will arrive presumably from France. No feedback
from the chief. Should have done it myself, but thought it was
good form to have Spaulding handle it.
Wherever we end up, it'll be developing a new s.s. plate 'extension'
that will stick out forward of the original bowfitting to support both
the anchor roller AND the center of the Facnor pole sprit..
Decided on a new Pulpit, the old out of round, crushed in front
and crooked, not yet ordered. Have to make an exact pattern
because I would like to do the impossible, that is to move the
aft leg bases to the bulworks and the front legs to the molded
toerail -- sans the bulwork for warp chocks-- in effort to claim
more wiggle-room to position the sprit and anchor gear.
Uninterrupted access on the hard will make it easier and sooner
done.. .. .. if I stay fit!
There will be more on the SunPower Flex panels that will hang
to the hard rails.
Never imagined how difficult it is to fit reality, per se, into a dream.
Here's a mental picture for you.
UP NAPA RIVER WITHOUT A PADDLE
a visit to the Napa Valley Marina
Recently, masks coming off, Covid mutations fighting back against non-vaccinators,
changing times, miles of something new: miles long stop and crawl traffic, no
accidents, just sheer volume on the north bound road into Sonoma. It was Steve
who suggested looking closer to home.. On a Saturday took the Element east into
Napa County and south onto a long straight and then winding rural road out back.
Sighted masts and cruised a stretch lined with large yachts perched on their keels.
Turned into the marina, straight-off found an open-door men's room and a marine
flea market in progress. Went into the store and found it shared a door with the
marina office. "Come back Monday." said the skinny guy behind the counter.
Ambled into the huge yard with huge dead elephants waiting for god. One or two
pickups parked in the casual groupings, no ladders against hulls. Altho it was a
Saturday there were no radios blasting and not a single sander, dead quiet.
After a doctors appt, arrived back at the marina office just before noon, to find
what appeared to be the yardmaster sipping soup at his desk. Came back at 12:30
and this happened:
Showed him, a large balding power figure, an image of Litlgull on my phone. He
brought out a green colored sheet of paper covered with 3 columns of price lists.
My boat would be charged daily lay days of $40 for 15 days, then $300 per month.
But if I was working on the boat, the rate jumps to $500, but longer than 3
months the rate jumps again to $750 (for a mono-hull to 44').
My brain Overflowed. Wanted a place to work, not punishment.
One item on a list of services for moving boats stands: $30.
Another was a "corkage fee" for paint not bought at the marina store: $10 a ft.
A fine of $260 for Litlgull using an open qt of Epifanes -- or a gallon of bottom.
As I turned to go, he said, "September x is when we can fit you in.." That was two
months away. I flashed, three marine ways are virtually empty, looked unused,
there's one 30' yacht parked on the floats, two live yachts on the hard gravel at the
head of the ways, no human activity. I got the message and left. The marina
looks historic and pleasantly incredibly neat, like a movie set.. waiting for the actors
to show up.
I drove past the elephants.. never to return.
Reasoned: the traffic problem wld soon return to something like normal.
This sleepy yard of money games is NO PLACE FOR THE LIKES OF EBB.
MARK HARRINGTON'S SLING-SHOT EFFECT
WITNESS INCREDIBLE BOATMANSHIP
A RECORD SETTING YACHT PUT
Hardly a powerful enuf phrase to describe what I, for lack of a full vocabulary
experienced at MattButler's SanRafael Yacht Harbor, when THURSDAY CLUB member's
of the Alberg Fleet SanFrancisco: Steve Cossman, Ian Elliott, skipper of the Triton
SANCTUARY,
and Mark Harrington volunteered to tow Litlgull, engine-less, sail-less, skipper-less
Ebbster back to where he sprung (and towed away from) in recent memory.
The tow can last 2 1/2 hours, Sausalito to SanRafael, by auto takes 20 minutes.
But on the end of a 50' line, on a calm balmy day, it is life-embracing. Uneventful
except for some errant waves, "Ferryboat," said Steve, also aboard in the cockpit, no
ferryboat anywhere in sight. And a spectacle
in the form of a gigantic dark barge with a tall light colored pilot house like a freaky
church tower.. which seemed to be closing rapidly on us with a huge boxy derrick
that growled and clanked loudly and wildly swung it's enormous bucket one side to
the other, opening and clanging shut its mouth as it gained on us and passed in the
next opening under the RichmondBridge -- like a T-Rex on a loose and lunatic island.
We arrive an hour later, up an endless estuary of expensive real-estate, and park in a
convenient doublewide slip close to the Harbor entrance just ahead. Phone calls to
locate the harbormaster fruitless. Ian takes the guys up into the Harbor to suss out
the situation, No Matt. No promised dinghy with an outboard to tow po' Litlgull in..
and under the crane for lift out.
MAKING THE COMPLEX LOOK SPONTANEOUS AND EASY
Then the extraordinary: Mark in deep discussion with Steve and Ian. They ask me
to hop into Ian's boat while they stay with Litlgull on the floats.
Ian backs out, Steve and Mark proceed by hand to swing Litlgull around bow out.
Ian motors ahead and stops stern on to the bow of Litlgull.
Steve and Mark, already onboard, hand Ian a line that he ties Litlgull about two feet off
his stern. He motors us up to the Harbor entrance, hangs left, suddenly accelerates.
He yanks the tow line loose. Look back to see Litlgull turning into the lane wit6h a
respectable bow wave charging down the row of parked vessels heading for the crane.
We, on Sanctuay, without the boat in tow, keep going into the inner harbor packed with
boats and floats of every ilk -- and into a puddle of empty water -- Ian heads strate for
the flank of some cabincruiserish thing at the end of a float -- just before he T-bones,
pushes the tiller down, swings on a silver dollar into a pure 180, cuts speed, coasts
back out the way we just arrived, but stops where Litlgull just disappeared into.
He waits, engine running, at the end of the dock for the guys. They dash up and hand
me down into a small godforsaken metal launch with a large black oily hole in its deck
where an engine once lived.
Clamber out, suddenly the voyage is over! Hail goodbyes, see you at breakfast, and
turn down the float to find Litlgull, quietly nodding, tied to the horizontal float used to
orient vessels for haul out by BUCKYRUS EIRE looming like a Jurassic skeleton overhead,
painted GoldenGateOrange. Welcome back!
How often has the Thursday gang practiced this Sling Shot Effect?? THE YACHT PUT.
What I witnessed is like what individual jazz players hope to arrive at when they improv
with the tune -- and stream it together to a heartbeat, exciting and beautiful.
Just think, Litlgull spontaneously sling shotted into the futur to silent applause..
Ian's alto sax harmonizing with Sanctuary's beat, a perfect riff.. never recorded for
posterity and keepers of the faith.
Except for Prospero here.
That I witnessed. Hear it? Ella easing it together with a long sweet note.
My luck is unfolding -- what I witnessed: Never forgot! Holy catfish! Thanks guys!!
__________________________________________________ _____________________
KURT (see below) BEYOND THE PALE
Years ago, serendipity became a popular word. It's when something fortunate
happens by chance that's special. Was watching by chance as Ryan Crouser stepped
up, wound up gracefully, twirled his big body around, with a grimace and a yelp,
performed a new distance by pushing a 16 pound iron ball 75 feet for a new world
and new Olympic record. What we know as 'a Gold Metal performance'.
When a world class record is made it's right on the edge of serendipity. A star
with easy prowess often pushes chance over its boundary. a Shot Putter won't ever
make 32 million dollars a year doing his art. It was a privilege seeing something
maybe I'll may never see again.. And it may not have been a touchdown or a
bases loaded homerun, but I saw 3 guys PUT a 3ton yacht for Gold.
Serendipity provided the lovely pun. The Alberg Fleet their expertise.
The amazing thing, they did it first try -- litlgull witnessed Gold.
__________________________________________________ ____________________
"Yacht Put" - yer killin me :D Love it!
Letters and LarusMinutas are 8-10" and will be applied to the hull just under the rub rail at the sheer in the region of the cockpit. Ray Balanger Apache Signs is the inspiration for the font, my art is blatant borrowing, Ebb contributed some arrangement. Ray is the genius. Port of Call for documentation will be San Francisco CA in 4" letters across the top of the transom.
THANKS BILL !!
Large image is a bit much. Wasn't planned. But Ray was exchanging emails.
I all along after absorbing the shock of first seeing the hollow letters, still was
suggesting more airyness in the spread of the letters, and by the fourth try
this is what appeared -- as large.
Ray had pasted the first samples on an image of the starboard side of the
boat -- this one only shows the sheer rub rail. It does mean that the name
will be rather large to my eye, as I wasn't ready for this, not having fully
imagined it.
Still not sure if I'm ready for the boat name to be plastered all over the hull
like a freighter.. if Little Gull was wood, name and port would never have escaped
the transom. And like the port of call, all block upper-case letters devoid of air,
stiff and proper like sailors on muster.
But I almost immediately accepted the relaxed hollow letters, and their cartoony
casual nature.
Realize the contraction of little into lit (e)l will upset some, altho argument has
little weight given what has happened to language since the advent of the
personal computer.
The 'g' is now the fulcrum of some stems of balanced font shapes that might be
seen on a poster or book cover. To me the play is restrained enuf, it might
be controversial but it's contemporary.
Supple translation of the contracted name: litlgull with Ray's careful choreography
or spread of the individual letters is lit (e)l gull.. .. .. all instantly readable..
Kind of like arguing whether the letter x is a necessary letter in the alphabet!
It ain't serious it's for fun. Given Ray, to translate onto vinyl, another bird lozenge
more realistic less outlined. Crazy weather, everything seems half fast.
Novice here. Is the knee solid figerglass or is there an internal material made out of ??? I'm considering removing the shelf that is glassed to the knee on both sides and wonder if there would be structural issues.