Nice craftsmanship on that hood Ebb. I was wondering where you are putting the traveler now, on the hood somehow or further forward in the cockpit?
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Nice craftsmanship on that hood Ebb. I was wondering where you are putting the traveler now, on the hood somehow or further forward in the cockpit?
Thanks Tim!,
Travelor? Whart travelor?
Well, since this is sort of a public work in progress, maybe you can get me out of trouble :D
Aunty Ariel, the Angel of inspiration has failed me on this - however:
1) There could be a midboom travelor on the after part of the hard dodger I plan to put there. But the Angel is telling me that the dodger being so dangerously prominent has to be rounded (therefor not wide enough for a travelor) and I have the feeling that the dodger will have to have a hatch in it also, because it only will have sitting height under.
2) Since the boom on 338 is to be canted up to allow standing in the cockpit, and a vertical pole of some design could be installed permanently to rig a crane to lift the OB out of the well, perhaps this can be conceived as an arch (ouch!) and could also have the travelor on it. Certainly haven't any experience here! This strong structure at the end of the cockpit really appeals to me. It could be independant or part of the push pit. Have installed continuous maranti backing plate under the rear deck, ready for any idea.
Don't have an aesthetic problem with an arch so long as it is practical and necessary.
3) Is a travelor really necessary? What did we do befor Harken? Is there a REAL advantage for a cruiser to have one?
GUYS, GALS, TIM, This is YOUR responsibility :D
Traveler or no, I think mainsheet probably should be fairly near aft end of boom for best sail shape control. How much clearance would you say you will have between top of hood and boom? Maybe you could mount some short pedastals on the hood so as not to interfere with your hatch? How strong is that hood anyway??? :rolleyes:
Boom gallows that double as a lift for the OB? Perhaps similar to this modification on a COntessa 26?
http://www.pocketcruisers.com/contes..._traveler.html
Tim,
Stupidly didn't weigh the hutch befor install. Fairly light, but you and me could both stand on it. With added backing plates the sides could be used to partial support a structure that has a base on the deck. Compression strength is built into the rounded shape. but a pointy whomp might hole it, it's about 1/4" in most places, the lid is reinforced with pvc foam, the water channels meant to add 'rib' strength to the opening.
In thinking about this conundrum, It is my feeling that the structure for the travelor should have all of its strength from the base, the feet.
Like Mike's Contessa example (Thanks!), even tho it is obvious rigid, it is able to take the shock of a jibe independantly of, say, the coamings if it had been designed that way.
On an Ariel the end of the boom is at the end of the cockpit. I agree, it is the #1 location for the boom sheet. I'm not sure the hutch creates a convenient seat back/arm rest, I mean I'm not sure if one can sit back there while sailing, but I angled the hutch with that in mind, not thinking that the travelor might have to be there! Therefore in the interests of heads and tails the travelor has to be further back and/or higher.
The Contessa seems to have the sheet purchase at an angle to the end of the boom. The sheet seems to go forward at an angle to the boom. How much of an angle is allowable? I'm aware the travelor at near 90 degrees below the boom is the way it is often designed.
A boom gallows under a boom that's 6 and a half feet off the cockpit sole is TALL! Could be a sliding one? But to lift the OB out of the well with the 'crane' with block and tackle will take a lot of height. So maybe my lifting gear will have to be separate (and carried stowed) like already designed by Gene and Garhauer.
So, now, if the travelor bridge is half way back to get it out of the way, it then will be right over the well.
What happens if the travelor is mounted virtually at the stern? It would would be a bridge maybe nearly 12" high. Is this kopecetic, my friends, is this a solution? Thanks!
EB,
Since you are making a cruising styled boat...You might concider the type of travler that works off two blocks on the base...IE, they could be mounted on the base of the deck just in front of the hutch...I have seen this on many cruising boats that don't use a travlers at all...I would call it and end block arrangement.....I will try to find a boat and send a picture...Joe Antos
Isn't that the style of the original main sheet setup on the Areil/Commander? The blocks were placed on the two raised sections of the deck just forward of the lazarette hatch and aft of the cockpit seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE ANTOS
Bill,
Hi there...I think I saw that style on an Ariel somewhere and on some other boats too...The ability to sheet to winward is lost from my veiw. But it might work for his boat working around the Hutch..Joe
Thank you, gentlemen, for your interest.
Might I ask the panel:
The main purpose of a mainsheet travelor is to make it possible to have more adjustment when beating.
Another reason is to have a more conventient location for the helmsman to control the sheet, which comes from a central block.
Are there other uses for the travelor? Is a travelor necessary for sail performance?
Doesn't a rigid vang add more control of the boom that used to asked of the travelor? In other words, maybe we can go back to the original block-only system?
Has anybody sailed in the Ariel with the old method. Can you compare the two?
Joe intimates that the deck blocks could be mounted, let's say, more or less even with the end of the boom. Since the boom amidships is the only time that relation occurs, why does it matter where the blocks are placed? There at the end of the cockpit or further aft?
Is it cockpit aesthetics that makes the boom/sheet arrangement look right only when the end of the boom is directly over the travelor? Even tho it could be argued that the boom is never there while sailing?
Is there a mechanical reason why the travelor could not be mounted across the stern rail? Too odd? Just not done? Just asking. This is hypothetical, the hatch needs to be raised of course.
It just occurs to me that a travelor setup gives at least one more part to the block system, making it easier to haul the boom in.
Has anybody entertained the notion that it would be a good thing to get the travelor out of the cockpit?
Ideas? Mucas Gracious!!!
I should like to add my questions to yours.......
[size=1]Added on edit;[/size]
But upon edit, I think I will post mine in another thread.....
link to thread on Main sheet Travlelers
Eb,
Looking at the hutch..... is possible to mount the blocks on the outer sides of the hutch since it is made fast and looks strong...As far as I can would isee the far end of the boat might be too far aft to mount the controls of blocks or a raised traveler....The lines would come up at an angle and could rub the hutch.....I once looked hard at installing the traveler on my older Ariel in the cockpit...about 12 inches back from the drop boards.....I finally decided it would be too busy in close when working the sheets....As far as the vang goes. I use it to steady the down wind and reaching legs....keeps steady pressure and dosen't rise and fall like line vangs....Going up wind it can help flatten the main...When its light I keep it loose....I would like to visit some day to see the boat...Joe
Thanks, Joe,
Glad to show you the boat. Could use your input. See your 'private message.'
Was wondering if the rigid vang performs some of the functions of the standard travelor in the cockpit making it possible to go back to the original 3-block mainsheet. I'm not predjudiced against any right-on solution. It's not hard to 'see' it in stainless steel tube.
Mike's Contessa link above has another guy's installation using tube - tho not as impressive as the angles and wood one it looks lighter and the idea could be borrowed to get the blocks and/or travelor off the deck and out of the cockpit. If the lead to the boom was OK. ???? :confused:
Ebb -
Dropped back into here in search of under-cockpit quarterberth info. Had to change my Thread View settings to be able to find your thread.
Over 100 days since an update. Tony is winning (you said so yourself). What's going on out there at the Borregaard Skunkworks? :D
Maybe you can bribe Bill with some fresh wine to get him to post some new photos. I'll send the cheese and crackers if some interior shots can be posted. :D
Many race boats have the traveller down low across the middle of the cockpit (I would hate that, a real shin banger)
But, how about across the cockpit seats at the very end in front of the hutch?
Seems like a good place for the traveler, but for the mainsheet.
I it seems to me like it would spend an awful lot of time right in the middle of things, or forced to be bent arond the sides of the cabin top.
Let me go out and sail the boat, (it is 72f, blowing about 12) I will tie a line around the boom and hang it down to try to picture it and get back to you.
wha..? w h a a? oh, here aye is.
C'amos, C'pete, Thanks for the input and the research.
I see now a seatback high tube rail just outside the coamings. designed in conjunction with the 'breakwaters' at the front of the coamings. They would terminate at the hutch and would have heavy weather sunbrella panels for wind and water protection. The construction back there at the hutch could include a tube traveler base across the end of the cockpit at a higher level. If I did decide for that I'd probably set it exactly over the end of the cockpit with a protecting handhold rail in front of it, the hand rail over the seats. The height is a trial and error mockup situation because you'd be real careful hair and ears and fingers were not danger. The taller and more elaborate the structure, the more weight.
A hand hold at the end of the cockpit is in itself much desireable!
Wonder how many fingers and toes are put in jeopardy with in or end cockpit travelor systems? Then again is the traveler an absolute?
I've kidded myself about how much of a jungle gym is necessary on the aft end of 338. Me and 338 are well into a weight issue! I know we too small for wind generators and radar towers and whatever. If the travelor/handhold piece still allowed the OB to be craned out of the well, you could design the stern rail out of the picture. Don't know about the solar panels, when I get to it will most likely go for flexible and a semi-bimini type mount. ???
One duck is tied to the next duck and the next.
In the beginning I reinforced the foward corners of the seats (icebox removed) thinking an arch could be put over the cockpit there, anchored on the seats, perhaps part of the dodger. That may become an option again because the boom is raised now, the arch could be higher up and access to the companionway more dignified. Don't believe our OE boom can be converted to mid-boom sheeting. I like the loosefoot sail, so it HAS to be end-boom sheeting.
How's that sheet lead look?
Ebb,
Somehow I read your post, and got the idea you were toying with the idea of going FORWARD with the traveler!
I guess I read 'hatch' (thinking of the companionway hatch) where you wrote hutch. :confused:Quote:
Many race boats have the traveller down low across the middle of the cockpit (I would hate that, a real shin banger)
But, how about across the cockpit seats at the very end in front of the hutch?
So I made up a line to the boom while I was sailing around (on a perfectly beautiful afternoon) just aft the companionway, and then laid a boat hook across the forward end of the cockpit. The irea seemed manageable, only real problem I saw was that you would not be able to simple leave the traveler 'centered' as it would make it difficult to go below (but not impossible).
Maybe I should not even have admitted looking into this, since it was all based on an understanding. I will say that misunderstanding or not I think I would rather have this set up then the one pictured above.
Hey Craig, envy your sail this Sunday, yes, I do.
Everytime I alter something it generates a domino effect.
Don't recall anyubody here objecting to a midboom sheeting arrangement. Caution comes from me from what I've read. Do believe it would mean a stiffer boom to take the three bails and blocks. Not there yet!
As finding a place for a travelor becomes more serious, the over the c'way becomes more an alternative again. Another addition to 338 will be a hard dodger. But at the moment it's figuring out if a hard permanent windscreen with tube and fabric pram hood behind it is feasible. The top of the screen would be above the forward end of the opening and the hood would be folded forward to the windscreen allowing good access below. My lean is toward a well rounded dodger, front and top, that won't include a wide travelor as part of it, as I have seen. It would be great to get two for the price of one if they could be structurally combined. But it's not going to happen. I've witnessed that a cockpit wide travelor is necessary for effective boom placement and depowering.
So if this travelor is somewhere over the bridge deck - because the further back on the boom the block are the less force needed to sheet - it would be separate from the hood and would be designed to be high enough to get below without contortion. It could be above the dodger when the dodger was depolyed and designed in such a way as to be grabbable for going on deck and getting into the cockpit. If boats can go around without any rear ends and have their travelor in a slot under the cockpit deck than why not go contrare somewhere above the companionway. Hunters do it in the stern. Maybe a taller arch over the bridge deck is possible with something near cocpit width???? OH boy.... what a pickle.
[In the middle of the night I 'saw' the travelor arch looking like a boom gallows with tube legs coming up from outside the coamings at the end of the dodger. Now, more awake, this arch thing is easy to move back and forth ...in the mind. And there it is over the back end of the cockpit again!!!]
Think that the tails of the travelor sheets would be better away from the tiller and the OB - better up front with the halyards reefers cunningham and vang ends, and down hauls. Anybody with me on this visualization?
Thanks for the test! I guess I got myself into this, again. "It is all in how you go from one mistake to the next." Let's hope awl ebb goes sortof gracefully and with more speed toward the better compromise. :(
Ebb,
Ran across these Poly Vinyl Chloride cylindrical water tubes...thought they might fit in your custom tank boxes up forward.
http://www.western-marine.com/page123.htm
Chris ;)
Might have run into Western Marine myself befor. Then discovered these Western Marines is in Western New Zealand or Southern Ireland. OUTther somere.
One of the best if not THE best online northern hemisphere hardware stores is MacMaster Carr. Try em out, takes 15 minutes to comprehend their unique but very useful catalog system.
In fact the choices of possible tank/system hose, tube and fittings on that site (including vinyl, pvc) are incredible but usually limited by how much money you want to spend.
I have wished we could talk about it on a thread but didn't think, as I often find out, anybody would be interested.
I'm still wondering what the best is - and what the second & third choices would be.
Ideal plumbing layout,
Best hand pumps,
Best electric pump,
Best plumbing material? ;)
(I know I have researched every 'through bulkhead' ie thru-tank fitting on the net. Never have found one that would really work well with glassed in place frp tanks. They are large flange fittings that depend on a rubber washer for the seal - which makes it a maintenance item. The best plastic ones imco are made by Hayward. Because I wanted tanks that would drain into the system and tend to self clean I've ended up epoxying pvc pipe thru tank as low as I could get it. Even got some s.s. pipe nipples to make thru-tanks, but felt, perhaps erroneously, that I'd get a better glue-in with plastic to plastic. Obviously would be best to put in a replacable thru-tank. Make sure trhere is an access plate into the tank over any thru-tank. Or design tank so you draw liquid out of the top.....etc.....etc.)
Ebb,
Just read through this thread again, looking at your hatch-mounting-frame-building methods. ;) Think my Bomar hatch will stay in it's box for a while longer.....
Would love to see an update of your progress.
Thanks,
Really not so difficult. There must be 10 ways to do it.
Why not put the question out on a new thread to get some
responses not related to this thread. Mike Goodwin, Frank
Durant, for instance, probably know and recommend a far simpler
method than what ebb came up with. You betcha.
What's Tony G. up to these days???
OK, snake with legs here:
It's been awhile :eek: since those Bomars (pg 10 136-7-8) were messed with, and they are not even bolted in yet!
Believe I had to cut the old hatch coaming off - without making the hole larger, and grinded it fair to the camber. Then laid out the larger hole my Bomar required. I knew what wood I had to use for the 'lining' (coaming?) for the Bomar and cut a hole that the wood would line up with on the inside of the Bomar flange. Made sure I cut the hole square by adjusting the foot of the jigsaw (or bluetape on a stirring stick). The liner is essentially a 90 degree box in the hole. So you can temp screw the box together. Ground off the gelcoat out a couple inches all round.
Decided on a minor forward tilt. Slightly higher on the aft side. Don't know why. If you cut the liner tight enough (force fit) just lay the Bomar (took the top off) on the pieces and tap them til you're satisfied, parallel with the deck, tilted, whatever. Doublesided carpet tape may work too. Can also hold the liner (box or pieces) by screwing into the balsacore, but you'd have to make these holes disappear later.
Cut the bottom of the liner to close to the finished depth and forward curve and aft curve (they are different.) Use a suitably sized little block of wood (width of proposed trim) or a compass to scribe. It would help if you have a finished smooth surface on the roof inside.
The Bomar flange is 1 1/2" wide. The liner in 338 is 1/2". That allows ample solid material for the bolts that fasten the hatch (the filler is 1" wide) - bolts go round the outside of the flange about 1/2" in. The material in the photos is 3/4" thick. With that thickness it's obvious I intended to recess the nuts. If the result is too 'busy', a thin finishing strip might go over them. Or some resilient peel and stick rubber. Could let the liner run proud and fit in thinner trim for the bolts. That way there may be some protection for the top of the head.
The trim around the hole will take some fitting and as an option be held in place with screws thru the liner into the edges if thick enough. Small screws were used as the plugs are are only 1/4". This is the trim that the bolts from the Bomar will come thru. The trim will then be held quite securely! You will have to make a paper pattern to create radius trim pieces on a bandsaw out of thicker stock for the foward and aft. An oscillating drum sander is very helpful too. Would do it that way (skinny trim) if I did it again because it would help the hatch look smaller and more tidy and create a couple pleasing shadow lines. But you don't have to do this til later. Or, you can finish off the inside pieces up to the final sanding. depending on your bedding choice, you can positively support the trim pieces without screws with spring battens from the V-berth or sole. Until you are ready for bedding compound and final Bomar instal.)
You have to prepare and sand the liner to its finished shape. Because you won't be able to remove it after the next stage. No reason that whole hatch support couldn't be wood. However if you decide on an all wood frame under the Bomar it probably would have to be taller off the deck. The unconventional way described here gets the hatch as close to the deck as possible. The fronts of the Bomars sit on the deck.
Now, a perhaps controversial 'cheat'. Blue tape off the narrow outside edges of the Bomar bottom frame very very carefully. But befor that apply 2sided fiberglass carpet tape to its bottom - trace & cut it with the utility blade to the exact outside profile leaving the peeler strip on (epoxy doesn't stick to it - however mylar is a better, smoother, flatter release surface and it is recommend here.) Place it taped up right on the liner. Center the inside edges on the liner. Now's the time to get the liner flat and square if you need to (low angle plane.) Then firmly clamp the prepared frame to the liner.
Fill the space under the frame with mishmash.
Make sure the wood in there is juiced and primed and load in a mix of cabosil, glass fibers and epoxy. But don't fill quite all the way out to the edge {'the edge' means your edge, ie you might want to lean it way out on the bottom...] at the bottom! After this is set you can take your form off (the Bomar bottom frame) and check how well you did. But you don't HAVE to move it yet, ok? Might be better to leave it alone, because you may have to mask it over again.
Fill any voids (can be done later). Make sure your wood to epoxy joint is seamless. You hopefully have great confidence in the epoxy you use! No leaks will happen at this join! You are molding and bonding to the deck. And that part of the liner that sticks up out of hole. [Because the wood can expand and contract on all its other sides the epoxy/wood joint should never open up imho. In the final install you will be bedding the frame in polysulfide (no doubt) and the fastenings are going thru the epoxy buildup - SO the wood is under no stress!!!]
Clamp the frame back in place and fill out to the edge with filleting mix (epoxy and fumed silica.)* Always prime the surface first with plain epoxy and blot or wipe away the excess. Add universal color (white, like gelcoat, is good) if you wish. Here you decide how to hold your spatula blade. I like a little splay outward to this riser. A steady hand. The rounded corners are a butch. But once it's set, take off the form again and with clothbacked sandpaper carpet-taped to a piece of plywood sand away until the slope and surface are pretty smooth and shapely. Mostly. This filleting stuff can get pretty hard. Keep the deck surround pristine as well. This way you can shape to your heart's content and your muscle's burn. Get those corners all the same (you can slice with a sharp chisel if the plastic's not totally set) even if the slope is not quite like the straight runs. You're 'trueing' up the hardened goop for the next ( easier) stage:
Clamp the rig back on and fill and shape with easy sanding fairing mix. (WS 407 and laminating epoxy.) The smoother the surface is - and thinner the last passes of fairing compound are - the more finesse you gain.
[Have since, on 338, filleted (rounded) the join at the deck you see in the photo and botched it - but with fairing mix its easy to sand and shape till it's smooth and even. A piece of sandpaper around a dowel is perfect here.]
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
* FILLETING MIX -when you mix 2-part epoxy and fumed silica together you get a kind of gel.
You experiment to find out how stiff or loose is good for you. When you prime your work with plain 2-part liquid you create the bond to the surface you form the gel to. I brush the liquid on with a brush then blot and wipe the surface 'dry' with paper towels.
If you don't the liquid left behind will combine with your gel and change its consistency, making it looser. It then can sag and fall out of the shape you want. Filleting mix is structural. Gets very hard and difficult to remove material from when shaping after it's set.
FAIRING MIX - is your laminating epoxy mixed with West System's 407 powder. It will become a paste. It becomes a hard but relatively easy material to sand. It's the brown stuff 338 has all over the outside of the topsides in the photos. It becomes a hard surface that can be feathered thin and sands easy. That is why in building up this pad under the Bomar frame you want to leave sanding room so you can fair it even and smooth.
MISHMASH (not my word) is 2-part mixed with chopped fiberglass and fumed silica. It is structural and is a void filler. It is hairy and hard when set, horrible to grind and sand. The proportions you experiment with, but you don't mix in too much glass. It's there to keep the mass from becoming too brittle, muscle fiber. In the above deck build up, you tuck it in under the taped frame to avoid dealing with it again!!!
Sure hope some of this makes sense......
I have read it three time now, and I think it is getting more clear. Sounds like being a master epoxy craftsman makes this easier... :) That is ok, I have got plenty of sandpaper. :D
Thanks for the break down Ebb, I'll be sure to post the results when I di it.
Just finished a photo shoot at Ebb's boat and found this example of "encapsulated" lead ballast lying next to his boat . . . At first I thought he might have started a new project . . . :D
Ebb replies: "Bill, you don't know this: but I removed the ballast from 338 to make up for all the weight I've added up top." :D
Ebb: "Showing the end on the new toerail and a transom begging for a taffrail!"
Ebb: "Curtains and runs from a disastrous spray-on primer fiasco. Expectations were of a thin easy to sand final prime. Even paid the guy for his time. And yours truly spent the hottest days on record in San Rafael longboarding and sanding the damn stuff nearly all off!"
Ebb: "Port scuppers cut into the molded rail under the new toerail just forward of the Pearson deck scupper. Whether this is the place for them is arguable. They are also near the winch base and will constrict water flow on its way aft. It is way more traditional to have scuppers evenly spaced along the bulwark."
Ebb: "Portrait of the port side toerail"
Ebb: "Finally the OB motor well gets its primer coat, albeit lots of runs, but relatively easy to sand. Wish I could get somebody else to do it!"
Ebb: "This shows the dodger from the cockpit. The piece is made from xmat and epoxy over a form. 1/2-inch pvc foam was bent and glued to that and more xmat on top. Classic sandwich. Works in progress have many unknowns and surprises. How it will actually finish up can't tell (ideas, anyone?) - or even if it will have a place there aesthetically. Unlike Geoff, who has the area covered, the dodger proposed here is only a windscreen requiring an expensive pipe and canvas pram hood to fully protect the c'way. Dodger has its own bridge over the c'way making it independent of the seahood. There's a choice whether it will be permanently installed or made removable. Picture shows the big side hatch-slide rails now built in. They run the length of the cabin top and the seahood (also removable) mounts there on. Note taller coamings extending up from the inside and the mockup of a flat hatch."
Ebb: "This shot shows the seahood made with the original sliding hatch. There may be room under the forward part for a dorade. Dodger shows some off-the-wall possible windows. I had planned 3/8" carbonate for these - but bending the plastic to those curves is totally daunting. Center window indicates a Taylor-Made opening hatch."
Ebb: "Starboard locker conversion to water tank. Doorskin to the bulkhead with the pencil lines proposes cutting the bulkhead back even further."
Ebb: "This is a trial idea in doorskin. What are the pros and cons? The laminated beam would go under the one already there (too massive! lost head room!). But it would open up the longer berth room the skipper requires. The doorskin shows a compass curve, the strongest architectural shape possible, in the only form possible, or am I missing something. The present compression beam with its struts imho is perfectly adequate. The arch is strangely more pleasing to me than what's there."
Ebb: "Deck has been lowered to accommodate 19.5-inch height of AirHead head. Discovered, after the yard leveled the boat, that the V'berths are higher at the fore end by 3/4-inch."
Ebb: "A 1/4-inch thick ply lid covers the sump here. Tank fittings exit here as do 3 pvc pipes from the focsl, anchor locker, V'berth bilge. Area under cockpit is waiting for battery compartment."
We had more photos of the drooling paint, but felt they were too embarrassing to post :o
Ebb, what did you use to coat the inside of your water tank?
Edit: Also did you glass straight the the existing plywood? If so did you lay any type of barrier to keep it from sticking to the ply (I can just imagine for some reason needing to remove it and all the explicitives that would accompany such a feet had it been bonded to the ply wood.)
WOW
I like the arch, but the interior is opened up very nicely already.
I'd go with the biggest windows possible for the dodger, even if you have to use vinyl windows. A handrail on either side would be good too.
Love the toerail
Sea'pete, Thanks, for your input! Maybe the arch and the windows are related in that we do want to get the widest effect possible. Always in the mix is the 'form follows function' maxim. The give and take of that is the fun part in trying to be unique but also end with something that looks right.
Dodgers are definitely structures that have to be made to be seen thru. My choice of a hatch for the center requires all the framing that comes with those things. Have a feeling it will seem too small. But it was the largest ready-made I could find for that space. And the hatch light is glass.
Have wanted to have windows in the dodger that look related to the windows in the cabin. An attempt to stay with the '60s look. That means a frame around the 'light'. That means giving up see-thru area. The best, easiest, even strongest, way is carbonate slabbed and thru-bolted over openings. Can be cut to look like more see-thru area too. But from the beginning I've wanted to keep that framed look. We'll see!
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
3rdmon,
The tank coating is epoxyproducts.com's NSP 120. A 100% solids 2 to 1 NSF 61 Approved Potable Water Epoxy. This is the caveat: NSF (National Sanitation Foundation Testing Lab.) is a private agency that takes FDA statistics and works them into a certification for a product or material. 61 is a number that refers to potable water. This epoxy is certified for tanks of a 1000gals or more. I'd like to know what the criterion is that judges whether an epoxy is good for a tank or a quart container?
When you search for a coating in the USA that is certified for potable water in smaller tanks you won't find it. Imagine all the containers we store and drink water from, including epoxy. I needed something.
I used this NSP 120 as the barrier coat on the outside hull. It's a hard, shiney, recoatable, dense product. It has an odor when fresh that disappears after set. I asked Paul at epoxyproducts.com about the smell and he didn't know - but I was assured it wasn't solvent. And so far as I know using it inside the boat hasn't produced a reaction. I take care to mix this product in one container and then pour it into another and stir again to make sure all of it is thoroly mixed. No uncured epoxy we hope. We're looking for an inert coating when cured. But who knows what we have here. Research it and use it without my recommendation.
Novolac epoxies, highly chemical resistant, used for coating gas tanks for instance, seem to be something to look into. All we're looking for is a hard non-reactive liner. I will pass potable, drinking/cooking water from a tank thru a carbon filter.
Don't know how far you want to get into this: but when I researched rubber (for seams and fittings) NO polysulfide passes the potable water line. NONE! That means polyurethane has to be used. Sikaflex 1A is OK, 5200 probably as well. I think I used the 1A because it had a longer open time(?) and was cheaper, coming from the hardware store. For fuel related we MUST use polysulfide (Thiokol was originally invented to keep WWII planes together, including fuel tanks.) - for water related we MUST use polyurethane.
The tank was made inside the original V-berth. The tank is part of the hull, let's say. Unusual are the large triangular sectioned fillers glassed in under the plywood top. There is a final lid which has two 6" s.s. access plates and a nylon waterfill. Dunno about the vent yet. The interior is completely glassed. The tank has a narrow raised flat bottom. The draw will be out the bottom, ie thru the bulkhead. The baffle is 3/16" homemade frp sheet held in place with fillets - with the top let into a groove in the lid.
Ditto that! And the scuppers too... Functional and elegant. Looks like a Fuller tool kit was put to use. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by commanderpete
Your open interior is sweet. The arch is interesting, but I would think you could use your existing bulkheads for shelving or storage, things I'm sure you can never have enough of.
LOVE the raised toe rail !!! The scuppers are great...and needed. The little 'bulwork'(spell check:Mike) will sure give you a confident feeling going forward offshore.....not to mention a great tool saver to boot.Lookin good buddy...it IS progressing.Too bad about the primer job...WOW !! You and I AFTER a bottle of rum could have done better...ouch!! Think of all that sanding in the heat as a gym alterative.Keep it going Ebb...it really looks great.
Thanks gents for the vote on the rail. That feels good!
Ebb...I'm not gettin a handle on your interior??.Open IS great,huge watertank down low is super,nice 1/4 berth too if I remember right.Can't place the galley?? Any final ideas yet??
Franko,
Keep telling self to make fullsize mockup with paper and cardboard. I think the basic thing is to have minimal open access to the starboard Q'berth, with the dinette continuing off of it all the way to the bulkhead under the mast. Want to have the largest table possible. I 'see' the table top with hinges somewhere in the middle so that half of it can easily fold UP - hopefully leaving enough room for the off watch to be comfortable when the dinette converts to bunk.
Ideal would be to push the whole 'double' bunk bed thing forward (over the V-berth tanks) so the the galley area and the c'way are free. That's why the compass arch looks so good to me - and it's just a few inches extra gained at bunk level. When the laminated compression beam was built of white oak, I used cloth with epoxy to glue between lams. Resorcinol supposedly doesn't like the wood, and I don't think brown glue is waterproof enough. All the other glues have a problem with creep, except the polyurethanes which I've had problems with just in normal glueing. Anyway, it's a complicated messy project making that bloody arch the hard way - so hopefully I won't find myself doing it!
Have to have the galley at the c'way so I can stand (with the hatch open.) The counter won't continue over to where the icebox was, which has to remain open. I think the port corner is the best location for the kitchen in 338. Aside from shelves and cupboards I'm not certain what will be between the galley and the V'berth on the port side. Because this is standing room here, the ladder has to be removable, tho steps built into the furniture that leaves the center open is an option. Plan a small portable cold box under the bridge.
Ebb
Now I just have to take a break from work(indentured servency) to sound off. But don't expect me to bathe you in compliments. No sir! This is the level of work and craftsmanship we expect from you by now.
:eek:
Get real, me...
Nice...very nice. These hulls really do take a wood toerail well. But the scuppers! Schwing!!! 'Don't recall you mentioning anything about cut-out scuppers in the past. Hurry up and launch so we can see how they work. I could go fer a set on 113.
You, sir, have a fine eye for lines. I'm talkin' about your windscreen. I knew you had something cool up your sleeve from your last email. Although, I thought it would be mostly polycarbonate, kinda like the Halberg-Rassey. I do like your idea better on a boat this size. The way I figure, you've got the hard part out of the way. Now it's just some simple bows and misc. hardware. Yeah, right. Who am I kidding? Nothing seems to be 'simple' with Ebb.
Is your old sliding hatch the removable seahood now? Do you have plans for a panel type that attaches to the 'rails'?
Galley. I remember when you replied to one of my postings with, "welcome to the how am I gonna fit it all in here club." Beats me! Living aboard a 26 footer is definitely a singles kinda thing. Galley or crew, galley or crew, galley or crew....I guess the key is to make use of every square inch of boat. Deck, cabin top, fore deck, c-pit, everything. I'm already looking for a 40 footer that will still be too small. But, at least then you can go to oposite ends of the boat to blow off steam :D
The paint is a minor PIA. Don't even factor that in.
How about a rigging update. Any new thoughts on that can of worms?
Who loves ya, Baby.
Tony G
I like the dinette idea....along with the rest.Can't waite for the launch party. Your 1st sail is going to be sweet.
Howzit goin Tony?
The Round the World Volvo race is over. They did a film recap of those rockets leaving wakes with rooster tails, decks awash with green water, and white guys bundled up like penguins in goretex. I figure a hydrodynamic windscreen is the way to go. Hey, as long as coamers are coming aboard from the front!
Those scuppers are really pieces cut from a 1/4" xmatt layup around a wood form wrapped in mylar, like a strudel. Then the molded toe rail is sawzalled where you think they should be, the pieces (breadsliced at a slant for a yotsey look) laid in place, glued in, and then trimmed down to the profile of the rail. With some backup matt underneath they should work in a toerail that has not been filled in like 338. I glued them in as if the deck was there. That is the thickness of the slices was left above deck level so that water CANNOT drip down the openings onto the topsides. Dribbles should be taken care by the factory deck scupper.
In laying out the interior, you're correct, it IS with singlehanding in the forefront - but forever hopeful the double bunk convertable will get thoroly exercised.
Tony, I need some ideas to cadge.
How's YOUR interior coming? :cool:
Volvo hood
Mae West said it,
Too much of a good thing is wonderful.
Ebb
sorry to be late joining the choir here. Nice toe rail, and I really like the shape of your hard dodger. do you have a sketch of the complete design with the bows & canvas? just curious...
cheers,
Bill
Thanks Bill,
Naw, I started with a think piece. An arc that is slightly flattened in the front. When I had the arc idea more or less set I made two out of stacked and grabber screwed plywood pieces. I knew I had to have the same exact arch because if they are different you put a twist in the finished surface. And a somewhat DEarched front because I knew I had to work in a flat hatch. The plywood arcs were tacked together and carved to fit the separate frp lamination going over the companionway. And carved to come more or less to a point at the end of the cabin. Struts were then permanently put in to join the two and 1/4" masonite cut to fit. I use Office Depot (or is it Staples?) white posterboard. Use a lot of it to make full size patterns.
After the layup I had to disassemble (destroy) the mold form. To keep the epoxy from sticking to the wrong stuff I use mylar film, twoside carpet tape, painter's film and saran-wrap (both polyethylene.)
I kept the windscreen as low as I thought practical. And aesthetic. It still looks huge to me! I don't know yet if I really lucked out on the glass hatch for the front. It just fits - in theory. Maybe I'll give the factory a call, right now! They said they make the hatches on order!
It's pretty subjective. I wanted a strong green water hard dodger. Windscreen and pram hood is a compromise. A low entry dodger was out of the question. I'm assuming a good soft dodger maker will be able to solve the folding part of it.
As I took my trailer measurements off of EBB's boat, I could not help drooling over the nice toerail and the smooth 'brand new' feel of the decks...
If I make it back to the SF Bay area soon I want to be Ebb's apprentice. I could use some of those skills on C155. Too bad I did not know about the nice work going on there at the time!
Thanks Rico.
If I were young again and knew what I really wanted to do (which I didn't), and had some guts (which I didn't) I would find a master shipbuilder and make myself indispensible. Masters know how do do things quick. Masters know every trick and jig. Masters know the 'dance'.
338 shows what a certain amount of enthusiasm can do, and endless hours reinventing the wheel. Masters don't make mistakes. When they do, they know how to go seamlessly on to the next mistake. Amateurs know how to screw things up, sometimes pretty royally. And amateurs often lack persistence.
Appologize for no pics. Just by way of a report.
The estate shop (where I wirk) has a $4000 set of Festools built around the biggest vacuum they make. The System, and it is a System with a cap, is an installer' /remodeler's dream. Remodeling in an upscale house usually means removing all the furniture and taping/drapping plastic on everything.
You can trundel this vac and a stack of modular boxes containing your selection of tools (saw, sander, router) all clipped together into any room, plug in, open the boxes and start right in. Well, it's almost that good.
There is a kind of annoying germanic precision and hardness and hardedge personality to this extremely expensive set of tools. There is no funky to this grey and green clip and formfit tower of power. All tools have the dust and chips sucked up right thru the tool. Hardly any of it gets away. The sander I used you grip by the barrel - I can't get my mit around it, what do smaller hands do? "Ve vill hav NO Komplaints!" I really worked the tool - NO heat buildup. Vac going for hours - NO heat buildup. There's a huge bag in the vac - time to change it, finally?
NO complaints from the fine dust and glass. Opened up the vac to check the bag - the inside of the vac is compleatly clean, the huge bag doesn't need emptying yet!
Took the vac and one of the 5" sanders, the most powerful, but not the 6" that Jamestown and everybody else has been 'discounting' recently down to the boat and went to work without a mask INSIDE. What a joy!
No clean up! 5 minutes with the Makita grinder the dust is in every nook and cranny of the boat, and in the hair, up the sleeves, between yer toes, down the back.
It was difficult and time consuming but I used 24 and 40 grits disks to remove the gelcoat on the decks adjacent to the coamings. (Coamings removed.) This is where I had the epoxy fail on me. That's personal! So I took it down to the green. Actually blue, the mysterious blue first coat Pearson sprayed on some of the gelcoat befor they glassed. This narrow alleyway of deck has a 'reverse camber' in it, a sunken look, that's why I decided to level it - this is also where there is no balsa core. From the end of the cabin back is 'solid.'
Seems radical removing the gelcoat rather than trusting some dewaxing solvent. But I don't yet know what the problem is? Why didn't the first attempt to level the deck stick anywhere? Wax IN the gelcoat?
I'll do a small test today.
The side decks are looking great, up to snuff, and almost a fair line. It's amazing how unlevel the fore and aft run of the deck is. And how different the two sides are in fair.
I've decided against the hard dodger windscreen. Too heavy. I need expertise in much lighter building tech.
In that regard, I spent a day making a paper and cardboard scale model of a foredeck dinghy/pram for the Ariel. The idea is that the transom will partially be cut away and fit over the trunk of the Ariel just forward of the mast. That gives this 6 1/2' pram a wide stern indeed. And a nearly 5' beam! But looking at the model from different angles, it does have a nice sheer and nice curvey wales, has moderate rocker and a nice curvey multichine deadrise. Greenwater over the bow friendly upsidedown. A canyon rightsideup. Bet it'd hold a baby elephant, but will it row, will it sail, will it motor?
See now about putting together a fullsize doorskin on even 1/4" luan model.
I know it's a lot of work, but I could do it right in the house if I can keep the landlady at bay....
Like to see how a fullscale model looks in its place on the boat, it may be worth the effort.
And I'm curious about self-rescue aspects that a hard dinghy has going for it. Flotation can easily be worked in on a dinghy this wide. Yeah, Right! But can it float fully flooded with a man in it??? No. Yet I'd like to check it out in the estate pool here. Because the ultimate self-rescue aspect is whether you can climb into it from the water. That means putting 250# plus on the stern or a side and not pull the 60# dinghy under!!! Put that in your hat!:eek:
[quote]I've decided against the hard dodger windscreen. Too heavy. I need expertise in much lighter building tech.[quote]
Sorry to hear this Ebb, I thought the one you had worked up was very nice looking. I wish you well in your dingy building, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
How about cutting bigger holes in the dodger for windows
http://www.wavestopper.net/
SeePete, Craig,
I like the Wavestopper itself.
It looks unaffordable taken together with all the other deck tubes I'm thinking about. Notice that they now have an even lighter model that you can't stand on! Probably cost more too!
Unless it's all fabric and tubes, you should be able to get on it, if you must. And greenwater too has to get on it, and off without damage, if it must. I would just assume that a pramhood dodger would get swept away if it came to down to that. That was the primary concept. To have an impervious window wall protecting the companionway. If everything else got carried away one could always rig something over the hole if the windscreen part stayed put.
But a hard dodger growing out of the trunk would have to be made strong enough to take nearly anything. My method created an item too heavy in any arena. Really. I like its shape, but the damn structure bothers me. I'll consult with a dodgermaker when it comes time to see if it can be cut WAY BACK, as you suggest, and maybe have the fabric and vinyl fitted around it. I wanted solid 3/8" wave stopper lexan lights in it. Which have their own weight to add. Thanks guys!
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Yves Gelinas (Cape Horn wind vane) on his Alberg30 JeanduSud had an inflatable dodger frame. Was nearly 24 years ago he did his Circumnavigation.
Yet this sailer/inventer hasn't got a flexible dodger on the market. There's a lot to like about the idea!
Hypalon fabric has the best reputation for lasting a long time in extreme conditions. My google searching brings up NOT A SINGLE do-it-yourself inflatable site. The rubber glues have evil solvents in them. The tech side keeps mutating. But wouldn't you think there would be a source for materials like there is for plastics and paints?
I guess Ives must have used bike tire tubes or something?
Nothing's easy, but it sure is a lot of fun.:D
Ebbster -
I've compiled the materials for a Yves-type collapsible frame. Yves used fire hose for his tubing, with PVC fittings for the end caps, ring clamps and glue to attach the caps, and a bicycle/car tube nipple as the inflater. Nothing too esoteric, the man was on a tight budget (aren't we all? :rolleyes: ).
AFA the fore-house pram - I've long though to try making a dink using pink/blue foam (in lieu of the plywood which is in most of them), laminating it just like a surfboard once the foam was in the needed shape. Surfboards are pretty tough even with their relatively thin skins (1-2 layers of 4 or 6 oz glass), just avoid running them right into rocks - same as you would with a ply dink or an inflatable. Dings can be fixed. It'd be much lighter, and floatier.
If you haven't seen a good surfboard laminator at work, you should arrange a visit to a nearby factory and see how they do it. A 'pro' can get a board glassed to within I'd bet 15% or better of the efficiency of vacuum bagging. Waaay less of a hassle than vacuum-bagging, as did the fellow with that neat little boat.
Grist for your mental mill... :D
hey Kurt,
I've ad nauseumed near every stitch and glue, tack and tape site on the www, and gained a little insight on a lighter style of shell making. It looks like you need some moves - generally it's straight forward if you work neat and have a little experience with the steps. I may give it a whirl on the house-pram, using 3/16" meranti and 6 oz? woven glass inside and out. This is a big little pram and we'll have to fight to keep it light. The trial model will be 1/4" luan from H.D. which is actually 3/16".
Surfers have a simple solid structure to work on, while kyackers are skin. I'd like to look in on a master on that! (If you have more than a vague interest in the process, check out OneOceanKayakdotcom, incredible!) Have not seen a foamsheet canoe/kyack yet. For weight control, once the fabric is wetted, you can carefully squeegy off excess epoxy - one guy said - almost as good as vacuum. Dynel and matt could not be used.
But foam is a way to go. One site reminded us that added unsinkables should be above the waterline. (Some water in the bottom of a dinghy might be a good stability thing. Burden boards (added weight) be good to design in.
A solid ply bottom sounds right to me, with composite foam sides, all composite foam interior, seats and closed off spaces. But the weight will add up fast.
You can get foam composite board already made up. But it is way too stiff to be used when you need to bend it. Unless you have an oven it which to soften it. Too tech for me.
With a curvey pram you'd have to use sliced foam and the vacuum method to drive the epoxy into every small space. The result would be fantastic, but probably the result not lighter than a shell boat.
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Did have a mental about the flooding scenario of a self-rescue dinghy.
That is: a shaped nylon tarp could be fitted loosely into the interior of the boat, attached around the inwale. You would with a crisscrossed strap or two, yank up on this membrane to spill the water from the dinghy. You wouldn't need to have this in place all the time - it might be good to have it rigged in its waiting rescue mode when the dinghy is stowed on deck. The tarp wouldn't have to waterproof the interior, it could be removable for normal tendering, or it could become a tent in rescue mode still attached to the wales. The idea really is to lift the tarp and pull a good amount of water out to get the dinghy habitable.:rolleyes:
Well, OK, good beginning. Let's do make the water-out tarp the dinghy's tent and add some pumpup tubes for ribs to keep it up, and let's include a valve with which we can collect rain water, but of course... Make it so!
Little late posting these photos taken in September at the last InterClub race. First photos are of the total assembly, followed by photos of each end.
The ends are more interesting . . .
OK, now Ebb can explain . . . :)
Ebb raises the bar* of 'Ariel restoration' once again...
*(spar?)
Holy Shmokey, that thang looks niiice...
Details, please - section info of that extrusion if possible, and suggested retail?
Looks like we are only seeing the underside of yon boom. Will ye be using a loose-footed main, Ebb, or is there a slot for a bolt rope on the other side?
[QUOTELooks like we are only seeing the underside of yon boom . . .[/QUOTE]
The second photo in the first post does show the top of the boom. ;)
That it does, Bill, upon further investigation. :) Thx for pointing that out..
Doesn't look like there is a slot in there...
Old boom dimensions are
3 1/2" X 2 3/8" weighing approx 16 1/2#
New boom dimensions are
4 7/16" X 2 7/8" weighing in at 22 1/2#*
The new boom is a single extrusion with a groove on top, 3 incised reference lines. One on the bottom and one at 90 on each side. Makes putting on eyes, fairleads, cleats a breeze (eg: lazy jacks.) The scantlings of the new boom are a result of my being uncomfortable with the skinny old boom used for loosefoot and hard vang attachment. Not that anything untoward to old booms with modern alterations has happened so far as I know. I feel some redundancy is needed for cruising. There's a price in weight for that, but I feel now the new boom matches the mast in proportional strength, and aesthetics.
The boom is attached with a normal gooseneck fitting (not in pic) to the mast. The long oblique cutout has jammers that can be used for at mast reefing - or reef lines can be led down to the base (with the jam cleats deactivated) and led aft on the cabin top. (#264 top)
The outboard end with the smaller cutout has the clew line in the center sheeve of three with reefing lines entering the boom on either side. The reefing lines are deadended with simple loops around the spar. They would go up to cringles on the leech, down to sheeves in the end of the boom, then forward inside to exit at the mast. I don't know what the purchase is on the internal clew cable. How one pulls maintenance on the internal block system remains to be seen. (264 lower)
If I wanted to lead the luffcringle lines aft that could be done along with the leech reef lines. (Along with the 'continuous reef line' that gathers the flap of the sail and bundles it.) Not sure if that is a good idea to run it all back on the cabintop anyway as it's probably better to use hooks on the gooseneck or something else like small tackles?` Hope to find out one-o-these-days. Depends on what the conditions are and what control the helm has while shortening sail. Cruisers might want to have the trisail ready at the mast and that's another set of lines that may not go to the cockpit.
Exceptionally made spar with fantastic 'coin stack' aluminum welding on the inserts. Has a soft browngold flushed annodised silver metallic finish. It's really beautyful! The choice of finish was that or no finish to allow painting. Painting over new annodize is a complicated process and screws up the annodize. When I get to painting the mast have to try to get something close to the boom finish. It reminds me of clear coat powder-coatings. My old Dodge truck has failing clearcoat over "Driftwood" that changes from a warm silvery brown in the sun to a cool grey in the shade or when its overcast.
The 2006 cost from Ballenger Spars in Watsonville was under $900. I was the transport. At the moment there seems to be no reason why one could not carry the original boom along as a spare or for wing-and-wing, and with the spinnaker pole, be able to rig legs too for the boat (see Baldwin's Atom) when needed at the ends of the earth.
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*on a ten dollar Sunbeam scale
I am soooo jealous
By the way, you might want to put some teff gel where the stainless cotter pin goes through the aluminum gooseneck. Mine froze up after only eight months. Had to cut it with a hack saw and drill it out
C'pete,
There's an island out there in the Pacific named MILLIWAYS where it's always Saturday afternoon and there's always a nice cool breeze.*
Next to a barefoot beach bar called Ursa Minor Beta there's an annex which actually is a well stocked marine store with perpetual 60's prices on everything.
Marvin's there of course, as always, but you'll probably find some of your best friends and old acquaintances getting some gear or having a beer. Brion Toss,
>google< Brion Toss Yacht Riggers Fairleads Newsletter
http://www.briontoss.com/education/a.../miscjan04.htm
he might be around too having some turnbuckles tightened - or flaking a schooner's chain bucket. Anyway, since he's here, take a look at his ultimate multi-pocket traveling vest**, which you should fill up while you are on the island.
Where ever you voyage in this universe, you'll have the right tool to get you out of trouble.
And one of them, as C'pete reminds us, is Tefgel - keep it in the same pocket as your pink pearl.:D
Happy solstice you old f... salts!
________________________________________________
*apologies to Douglas Noel Adams.
**might be the Orvis' 17 velcro, 12 zipper, 2 open - 31 pocket vest for $89!
ebb:There comes a time when an object is taken beyond functional form or craft, where form and function become secondary, and the object enters into something that is recognized by most as art. Your ideas and hard work have created, in my opinion, a wonderful work of art. I have gotten a lot of pleasure and a surprize or two following your progress. Well done. I can't wait to see the final form that your boat will take. More photographs please.
oh boy....
you know, I've been up in the palms
dropping coconuts
to lovely Fayaway, who doesn't
seem to have aged a day...
we must return to the boat
and get the pudding
started again.:o
'Some people say,"How can you live without knowing?" I do not know what
they mean. I always live without knowing. That is easy. How you get to
know is what I want to know. R Feynman (roofwiz 74)'
[off a roofing forum:) ]
Ebb...nothing to do with sailing, yet EVERYTHING to do with sailing.....I'm catching up on my 'Thoreau'......gotta luv the guy.Hits home in SO many ways!! Gotta get out here Buddy !! it truly is 'life on Walden'..simle-simple-simple
Frank,
Yer absolutely correct. Feynman was a latter day Thoreau. But also a bongo player!
Here's a coupla quotes:
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts."
"If we will only allow that, as we progress, we remain unsure, we will leave opportunities for alternatives.
We will not become enthusiastic for the fact, the knowledge, the absolute
truth of the day, but remain always uncertain...
In order to make progress, one must leave the door to the unknown ajar."
And here's one on being true to yerself:
(On pseudoscience) "...There is one feature I notice that is generally missing in 'cargo cult science'...
It is a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty - a kind of leaning over backwards...
For example, if you are doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid
- not only what you think is right about it...
Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be given,
if you know them."
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Not comparing. Just that these two share certain attributes and genius.
"When a man has reduced a fact of his imagination to be a fact of his understanding,
I foresee that all men will at length establish their lives on that basis." Thoreau
Ken Kifer (which see) says this of T. - some of which is true for Feynman.
"Thoreau does not hesitate to use metaphores, allusions, understatement, hyperbole, personification, irony, satire, metonymy, synecoche, and oxymorons - and he can shift from a scientific to a transcendental point of view in mid-sentence. ...
A Thoreauvian lifestyle is almost exactly the opposite of the consumer treadmill that most people find themselves running on today. ...
If you wish a boring and conventional life, devoting your days to working for someone else, your nights watching TV, your weekends to cutting grass, and your cash to purchasing one consumer product after another, THOREAU IS NOT FOR YOU. ...."
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yes, somehow Frank, I believe you have crawled out of the dragon's mouth!:p
"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk"- Thoreau. Yes, maybe another class of red wine and I'll understand something about what he was talking about..maybe not, after all this small room is so very crowded and I'm all so perfectly alone.:confused:
Gifted people can often be plain obnoxious.
Because they're special we give em a little extra slack.
We should more likely be tightening a noose around their necks.
Ebb.Hope all is well in your life.Boat update please. Pictures Ebb...we need pictures ;-)
Thanks Frank!
Been sidetracked, and my work ethic is not near yours, my friend.
Also, I have offended the admiral here. Don't know what, but that's how it is.
In two thousand my daughter and I visited Danmark. Notable in that we had not done anything like this befor. We decided to void the relatives trap so that things Danish were not family-filtered. We stayed in relatively cheap hotels, like the Saga Hotel in Copenhagen's redlight district and at bare bones squeekykleen no privacy hostels. We rented a sedan and did the Viking ships, ironage Viking camps, old market towns, and slots all round the islands of Danmark.
Inside Valdemir's Slot we found the usual portraits of sourfaced, overdressed humans in ornate frames, extreme candelabras, and uncomfortable furniture. I remember my mother saying to me that when she was a schoolgirl she had to memorize endless battles of northern european history. Not doubt she knew Admiral Valdemir's decisive defeat of the Swedes (in what century I did not record), that rewarded him with a Slot and handsome estate and a bunch of gold Krona.
As we climbed into the upper reaches of the castle it became evident that the slot was actually a huge timberframe barn with a 4 story veneer of fancy stonework and masonry outside.
The fourth floor was a vaulted vestry of oversized fitted baulks, handhewn rafters, massive purlines and cleargrain pine plank floors. It was cram packed with stuffed animals. Every animal and bird from every continent looking up/out/down at us. A deathly silent taxidermy zoo.
Who would have thought the famous maritime hero's pastime was filling the slot's shiplike attic with a representative of every animal on the planet? Maybe there was no room for an elephant or rhino, but I can't remember, there were wild cats and crocs and polar bear, maybe a camel.
I became depressed.
Was it this bizzare mausoleum of too many bodies in a country manor?
But his grateful king was but a king of a very modest country.
And the admiral's estate was quite modest with an equally modest slot...
I went thru the narrow ladyrinths of glass-eyed beasties and glass cases a second time...
YES, there wasn't a single pair of a single specimen.
Only one of each!
The admiral was a half-arsed noah hiding away a neurotic collection of trophies in his modest Danish attic. He had counted space for only one each! Lonely, even in death, one each. I wondered if he had shot and collected one sex of each beast, males only, him being a military man...
I shot a couple photos as I left, one of Larus Minutas, a tiny, tidy, well proportioned Little Gull. Black hooded, beige grey wings, white bodied, red legged and amber billed. Smallest gull in the world. Sweet. Could this one specimen represent the one and only Danish wild creature in the collection - apart from a fox, a hare, and a partridge?
I vowed that one day I would memorialize a mate for this particular little creature...
Ariel # 338 (nee Sun Quest) today in the mail received her Coast Guard documentation and with an appropriate de-naming/re-naming ceremony (to come) will hence forth be known as
LITTLE GULL
:D
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Correction: Valdemars Slot is a 2000 acre semi-private estate, the largest in Denamrk (which is the 'size of Maryland'). The castle is a 90,000ft2 manor house with 22' ceilings on the first floor, 18' ceilings on the second, and the equally proportioned bi-level attic (something I forgot, along with tons of other stuff!). It was built in the 17th century by Christian IV for his son Prince Valdemar, who died soon thereafter. When Admiral Niels Juel won his huge sea battle against the Swedes in 1677, his 'bonus' was the estate. Today, it is a major tourist attraction, you pay to visit, it has a coffee shop and the Admiral's descendants - 10 generations later - still keep it dusted without monetary help from the Danish Gov't. (Who's to say that some of the interim generations were not big game hunters as well, and contributed to the bodies in the attic?) The slot is equally an attraction for a fabulous snuff box with a miniature painting of a couple having sex on its lid. Postcards available. And a museum of yacht models and nautical memorabilia we completely missed!
Ebb, very nice name and so appropriate! Cheers to Little Gull! Looking forward to her re-launch...
Ebb
That's a fine name. The de/renaming ceremony sounds like it may be quite a shindig.
cheers,
bill
Thanks, guys!
One of these days.........
A quick Google of Ebb's namesake yields this: Larus Minutus
No wonder bird names are so popular with sailboats. Beautiful.
Hey mon...... N I C E!
Has to be an Alberg design.;)
Little Gull?? Maybe I should name mine "Damn Pidgeon" for the bird in the paint booth during primer, to say he was high is an understament, but he's gone now, yesterday before topcoat he was flightless in the booth, I ensured he didnt screw up topcat as he/she did the primer.
Sorry for the hijack
Well done ebb, a fitting name for a fine boat. Saved from extinction
Have to get over to Danmark one of these days
http://www.valdemarslot.dk/index.php?page=55
Hey BonnieJean! whot hijack?
C'pete,
Verry Danish, advertising your big slot with postagestamp sized views. Oh so genteel and modest. On the site's menubar, I see there are no Activities listed, and there is also no News. What's not happnin, dude. In the Cafe' you can buy a Pretzel - or a Hotdog or some Pizza - WOW. Wonder who the tourists are? Danes? Japanese? Croatians?
Guess my dought and me saw the "big game" mausoleum befor they spiffed it up. Being a kingdom the size of Maryland would make the proportionate banging of Little Gull a rilly appropriate event there. Guess the little seagull got nabbed in an early tourist trap.
I won't go to Danmark again unless I am with somebody very Danish (I'm only danish in name, I'm a redneck from Long Island), who could show me around. Might go to Norway. But if I was going anywhere scandanavian, I'd visit the Faroes, Iceland and Greenland. Check out Faroese puffin fricassee - and their pilotwhale pudding. Definitely get over to Greenland befor it melts away.
But, Pete, you have an eye for the ridiculous, a better eye for the funny and absurd than anybody I've seen. You'd have a field day in scandanavia. Hope I get invited to the slide show after your trip.
As of 10 May, 2007, Ariel 205 became FORMERLY known as Sirocco. She is now S/V Elii Henry, hailing port, Kailua, HI. Her new name went on on Memorial Day and her US registration number will be on in a couple of days.
Well, A W L R I G H T !:D
Elii - with two 'i's ?
Who be Elii Henry, joe?
Where you putting her name.... stern or bow?
Where you going to "permanently affix" your 3" letters and numbers?
PIX!!!!! on the Gallery pages!
Well Ebb, Elii be a contraction of my parents' initials, Henry is what I call my dog, whose proper full name is King Henry of Orange. The lettering she has on her outside now is temporary vinyl white block stick on letters and is on each side at the aft end. After she is painted in her new color which will happen when time and money permit, the letters will be in a much nicer font, and will be emerald green and will be in the same place. She is in the middle of a major remodel right now which is progressing very slowly because she is staying in the water ( I sail alot) until the moment that I can do no more without hauling her. After she is hauled, she will get bulwarks, new stanchions and lifelines, paintjob, and new standing rigging and will have her outboard well built into the lazarette as she is being converted from inboard to outboard. I want the space inside for water tanks and storage.
Pictures are required!
Indeed! How dare you post such a "wordy" reply about restoration and such w/out pictures! I think the forum administrator should give you a formal reprimand! ...and not even a picture of your four footed namesake to boot. Shame shame... :p
Well, Ebb and MBD, would one of you fine sailors like to come fish my camera out of the lake? I'll supply the beer but you're on your own for air. The camera should be quite fine as it is in a very strong Ziploc brand freezer bag. The problem is that the water is about 85 feet at that particular spot in the lake. But I will continue to work on pics and camera retrieval.
:)
Doh! Perhaps next time you should add some positive flotation to your waterproof bag. Sorry about the camera!
Actually, I'm going to put the neckstrap on it as soon as I retrieve it.
Now Ebb....I've been looking to see if any new pics are posted of your good ship.....none ! We need updates and pics Ebb....updates and pics !!!!!!!;)
I got a chance last week to see Little Gull in person.
and I must say words can not do her justice, the best I can do is..
Absolutely stunning!
Thanks Ebb