Enlosed Head?

nay mon!
get three turks to do it for under 15.000 for you.

piece of paklava :rolleyes:

No more wishful thinnking. I have a plan that works - have done it.

The Jabsco electric mascerator fits in the forward cabin, in the same spot where the original Raritan went. It fits beautifully and is low enough to fit under the bench cover. The through hull inlet is the same as the Raritan. But the outlet for the Raritan is sealed. The inlet line goes up to the bottom of the bench, where there is an anti-siphoning attachment, and then down to the toilet inlet.

The outlet tube - I believe it is only one inch with the mascerator - goes aft (it is hidden) on the port side under all the benches to the port lazarette. Under the cockpit floor, just forward of the rudder shaft, I have mounted a 13 gallon holding tank. The tube goes up to just under the bench forward of the lazarette cover, and down to the upper hole of the holding tank. The ventilation outlet goes to the starboard center side of the motor well ( to prevent spillage when the boat is healed). The drain (the lower connection) goes aft to a pump out outlet just forward of the motor well bulkhead.

Oh, I forgot. I don't think this holding tank arrangement woud work with an inboard there being no space for the holding tank where I have placed it. You would have to probably store the stuff under one of the cabin benches and loose storage space.

But the mascerator is terriffic. Push a button, and its all over. Woosh!

Ebb, I was browsing through the want ads this morning for "hired hands" to start the head refit as per your pearls of wisdom, then remembered - I don't have a boat yet! :o

PS. Got any updated pictures on the progress of your restoration?

Thanks Theis, now we know the plumbing is doable.

I had another thought - what if you put a compression post under the mast ala the Commanders, that would free up the bulkheads to be moved around as needed. You could put the head to one side and build out its room to the centerline, then have your opening to the vberth opposite.

And honestly, all this sounds like an awful lot of trouble. I'd most likely go with the bucket in the cockpit idea for the overnighters with the kids. As someone pointed out earlier, the head IS enclosed for day sails...

I was just curious if someone has done it.

And Tony G, I'm afraid I don't see a "sou'wester 70" anywhere in my future - not enough character! ;)

Mike

G'mornin Mike,
My blinkin progress is woefully slow. Energy is disapate by employment responsibilities and certain other diversions. Maybe soon something in the Gallery.

.................................................. .................................................. ....

Ariels are public domain, your desire for one private. How's the transfer made?

Our thoughts here are energy constructs - the higher the energy, the more equivalent energy form is possible. Thoughts are transfered to the essential by keeping oneself (Depok Chopra would say: in the field of all possibilities) totally open and aware and awake.

Edward Dahlberg (not your best known Am writer) said: "One perception must immediately and directly lead to a further perception."

An Ariel should appear directly. :D

Hmmm. Much food for thought. But it would seem, Capt. Ebb, that "perception" is not my shortcoming. You see, the family just doesn't enjoy sailing on my "Ariel construct" nearly as much as I do. In fact, I am perceiving "tcoolidge"s fine photo of Ariel #332 in the San Juans just fine on my PC desktop - but I'll be damned if I can make it my reality!

Maybe in time, with your guidance and lots of practice, I'll achieve enlightenment and an Ariel... :confused:

There always seems to be a few Ariels for sale in Maine.

Here's one. The owner seems to have dumped alot of money into her recently. Price may come way down after awhile.

http://www.pointseast.com/market/sail.shtml

Thanks commanderpete - I've had my eye on that one, but it's waaaaayyyy too expensive. I would like to have a looksie though, just haven't gotten around to it.

I've looked at a few others over the last months that some have been kind enough to post on this board, and am planning on making an offer on one soon...

Believe me, you guys'll know when Ebbs "Ariel construct" appears.

This board is great and the collective knowlege invaluable - entertaining too!

Amazing!
There you go!
At least take a look at it
when the snow plows clear the roads!

Find a REAL surveyor, and/or a knowledgable friend, one who knows Ariels have balsa core decks and has an eye for mast compression problems.

If you do find the boat ready to sail and see what the owner wants to recoupe on his upgrades, it just might be worth what he thinks it is. Upgraded Ariels should be worth more, much more, than a fixer. Just think what a set of new sails go for, or new rigging, even an OB. Just about did five grand on those three items.....

When you agree on a price, maybe he'll do a no interest pay plan, for a fellow Arielist? You are right: looking at it gets the process started. Maybe the money will find a way also! :cool:

From my perspective, 3 years on the hard, and the end barely in sight - a boat that has really been attended to, I would go for ina minute. A safe upgraded boat is worth the worry of a fixer. New thruhulls, a healthy rudder assembly. There are so many pieces to a ready to go sailboat, if you were doing it yerself you'ld never get to the end of the projects. Imagine looking up at the masthead when a breeze gets up wondering if the toggles are in good shape, you never got to it, and the kids are there in the cockpit poking each other.... That expensive Ariel.... you can bet he has put in three times what he hopes to get back. Look at the mast, top to toe. Maybe he did good.


I don't know what you do for fun in the frozen north but putting your frozen feet in the yards and marinas also puts you in the way of the boat what has your name on it. That's one energy output that could produce results. Talk with the harbor masters, they know what's happenin. Might be a lien sale, or Dobro's gone to live with his sister, and his Airel might be available. Make a better price in the dead of winter. Blah, kablah, blah. :)

Then again........

As an addendum (boy do I like that word!) to Ebb's thoughts regarding surveys et al. I had a fairly good surveyor when I purchased Valhalla and he found some "wet spots." My glass guy went over what he found and really only fixed two spots, I had some wet core just aft of the forward hatch, and also around the rudder post. For the rest, he said watch and wait. Those spots have not spread and still seem sound after 14 years (ye Gods...that long??)

Talk around the marina/yard and find the really great glass guy. He is the one that has to live with what he says, and gets to open up the problems.

BTW Ebb, I thought you played a dobro not talked to him :D

Hey Ebb, I'm sensing some wavering resolve on your end. Hang in there and keep your vision intact. And don't underestimate the inspiration you are to the rest of us blokes... I'm sure the first time 338 fills her sails and carries you towards the sunset, it'll have been worth all the trouble.

That's right ebb, keep plugging away, we're rooting for ya'.

I hope you're not suffering from the terrible disease of perfectionism. It's a crippler. Make yourself a good boat, not a great one, and get her wet.

"Great is the enemy of good"

( ....... s i g h ........)

Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to work...as much.

I'm convinced that building a boat inside a boat isn't as easy as building a boat from the ground up. Pete's right. Being a perfectionist can stop you in your tracks, or at least slow you down. The more I read about different boats out there the more I find that each one has it's own limitations or 'weakness'. You just can't have it all in one boat. Ebb, I know you know this and the one thing you give up to have something else is 'the most important thing' when you aint got it. So you keep doing just what you're doing because it has just as much to do with the journey as the destination.

What the heck does that have to do with enclosed heads? Oh yeah, compression posts. Mbd, one of the cardboard mock ups we used had included an enclosed head on the port side just forward of the main bulkhead. Naturally you have to give up some of the v-berth area wich may not work for you and yours with kids. That idea included a laminated mast step support beam that was nearly half the thickness of our new one suported be three 'compression posts', the center one being located about 8 inches to port of center. That allowed for a wider doorway/hatchway forward and still gave room for another 'compression post' on the starboard end of the mast step beam for complete support. The hatch would swing to enclose the head much like the one in the Wing. The part I didn't like. Unless you raise the sole in the forward area about 4 inches you'd have to step on angled hull to go forward.

Of course to do these modifications you'd have to tear out the v-berth, the main bulkhead, the mast step beam, blah, blah, blah. Before you know it, 12 grand for a ready to sail Ariel isn't so far out of line.

Frozen in solid
Tony G

So Tony, I gather you opted for the standard configuration when all was said and done then? I saw the thread of your deconstruction... :eek:

Any recent pictures?

Hat's off to guys like you and Ebb! It's great to have access to your experience! And as I told Ebb - you are an inspiration...

Now, if I could just get my hands on one of these little 26' Pearson buggers!