Blasphemy?

[Mike Goodwin]

I am considering something that some ( me included ) might consider blasphemous.

What do I like doing better , sailing , sanding, painting or varnishing . SAILING by a large margin . I admire a high finish boat like Sirocco , but if it sails just as fast I'll take one that looks like a NY taxi and not worry about dings and scrapes.
You can become a slave to the boat ( and car , house, yard, or motorcycle) , but I own a boat to go sailing not putz around with.

There is a product called Azek , a PVC board , available in planks and sheets.
It is used widely in the 'beach-home' construction biz.

I want to sail my boat , not work on it all the time or fret about the varnish .I may just replace the coamings with this stuff , it doesn't rot or need painting .

A friend ( worked on the schooner with me) is building a 22' sharpie out of it and it looks great.

[Bill]

See posts 7 - 9 in the "Paranda" thread in the Gallery forum: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=768

Joe Antos is following a similar path and using a plastic product for the boat's coamings. I need to f/u with some new photos showing more recent progress.

[Bill]

Here is a Web page for info on Azek: http://www.azek.com/info.asp Sounds better than . . . well, wood.

"AZEK® is the leading brand of cellular pvc offering an unequalled combination of Uniformity, Durability, Workability, and Beauty. Available in standard trimboards, beadboard, cornerboard, sheet sizes, and NEW precision crafted millwork, AZEK is ideal for everything from trim to fascia to detailed mouldings. With the look, feel and sound of clear, premium lumber, AZEK is available in Traditional smooth finish or a reversible rustic, Frontier texture. And, to make every job looks its best, use AZEK Adhesive.

[Mike Goodwin]

Azek comes 5/8 , 1 , 5/4 thick in widths to 12" and 18 or 20 feet long.

http://www.azek.com/tradtrim.asp

http://www.azek.com/pdfs/AZEK%20Product%20Listing.pdf

The "frontier" line has fake woodgrain ,yahoo!

I think Joe got taken on his price because it said 'Marine' , I think a 1x6x18' is $25 , depends on where you get the stuff. I'm looking for a good source than the local lumber yard.
I found a limited supply at Lowes , mostly molding and 1x6x8' was the biggest board they stocked.

We found you can glue it with their own proprietary glue , epoxy or 5200 .
It is a celular PVC

[ebb]

If thou wast G-d and not an
everyman held in high esteem
we could not Blaspheme the virtue
of your choice of materials.

A lay person might be divested of
his slick, made to appear with
high test chain around his neck and
flogged at a public waterhole.

If thou consent to deny high
status then like the lowly profane
substituting recycled poly for teak
is not punishable as public offence.

Only the name of Arielsanctas can
yet be defiled - for is it an obscenity to
build a boat of polyester instead of wood, or
for leather use impious naugahyde?

We all, contemptable, guilty of
impropriety and nonconformity beneath
G-d are everyday forgiven for eschewing
pilsner for ale of robust character.

But it ain't teak if it don't look like teak. :D

[ebb]

Quick look.
They certainly have the width needed for coaming. And you can buy 4 X 20 sheets of the stuff!
Wonder if you could run it thru the thickness sander to dimension it?

The colored decking on the site looks great! Can you get colored EON in width?
Wonder how the color holds up. Wonder if you could actually varnish it?
HA!

And does it have, in the 5/8" width, say, the stiffness of teak?
What's "expanded"? Not foam pvc for sure? You couldn't afford it. What makes azek so inexpensive?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mike, I don't see no marine Azek, so just what is Joe using? Would be great to see some pictures of a boat being built of this stuff!

[Mike Goodwin]

I just stopped by Eric's shop and saw the boat , alas camera battery flat.
He paid $40 for a 1x8x18' ,he runs the stuff through a thickness planer . It is more limber than teak by a large margin .
It is like the higher grade of PVC drain pipe , there are 3 grades according to my plumber.
They don't sell a "marine grade" , because they don't realize the market .

You know the difference between Penetrol and Marine Penetrol , the price !

[SkipperJer]

I have some familiarity with AZEK on a business, not pleasure, perspective. It is an amazing product however, pay attention to the details. It is called "AZEK Trimboard" because it does not deliver the structural strength of wood. The photos on their website show it trimming windows, doors, decks and in sheet form cut into many decorative shapes to create style accents. It is not usable as a deck support, a deck surface board, or as an exposed header over a window for example: it won't take the load. I'd be extremely cautious about building a boat out of the stuff. Coamings sound like a good application but I'd recommend sending some e-mail to addresses on their website about uses on or around boats. It's a well-run company. I'm sure you'll get someone there to respond.

On the bigger issue of sailing vs. maintaining I'm on the side of sailing. I'm a middle-aged convert to sailing who started out at an urban, non-profit sailing club in Baltimore. Cash for cosmetics was out of the question. Safety, then sailing with friends, were the priorities. It was a good start for me.

It's worth noting that teak was initially used on boats because it stood up to the sea without varnish better than any other wood. I love the way it looks varnished. I also love the way it looks well-weathered--like mine.

Bless all of you who have the time and energy to keep boats gleaming and help boating maintain its good name. If I ever get to retire, I'll try to catch up. Meanwhile, my plan is spend time and money first on safety, then on slip fees then refreshments to be consumed in some nice little cove on the Chesapeake after a good days sail in a weathered looking boat.

[Mike Goodwin]

Eric has been in touch with Azek and did mucho testing before begining this project. I was sworn to not to divulge the secret of this construction technique ,but it has Azek's blessing I was told .

[CupOTea]

Jeez - I spend all winter scrapin' and sandin' my brightwork like a good sailor and Cap'n Ahab himself is goin' plastic??!! Staying tuned for the verdict.

[Mike Goodwin]

What do you think a proctologist wants to do on his day off , just kidding!
But really, I had rather sail and know I can have just as much fun on a scuzzy looking boat or a 'plain Jane boat or a gold plater as long as it is safe and goes fast.
I guess I'm just not anal enough ( see above joke ) to fret about brightwork anymore, 30 years ago I was varnishing fool , 10 coats minimum !
I know longer seek the approval and admiration of folks in my marina , I've become a 'crusty old salt' and I am working on being 'an ol rummy' when I get the chance and the rum is dark enough .

[commanderpete]

The boat is supposed to make you feel happy, not guilty. You do what you can do.

Once my boat gets splashed in the Spring all work immediately stops.

I think we need more DISCIPLINE around here

[Mike Goodwin]

You sure know some interesting wimmen!

[commanderpete]

I don't know what it will take to bring Mike back into the Cult.

Vinegar or Honey? The Carrot or The Stick?

Incentives are important. I learned that in Rehab.

[Mike Goodwin]

Dang Pete, Capt. Bill deleted your pictures of the purty ladies !

[commanderpete]

I guess girls in bikinis are no longer allowed. Blasphemy!

I've tried to exercise PG-13 restraint. It wasn't easy ignoring the "Silicone Is Evil" thread.

This is the best I can do now fellas

[willie]

wwhoover at centurytel dot net

[CapnK]

Regarding Azek (not kitty porn) ;) :

I've picked up a job building a very large set of planter boxes for a rooftop garden, 2'hx2'w boxes that will run in a U-shape around the perimeter of the 16'x20' area, with some additional extensions and standalone boxes. Requirements for the material used was 1)no treated lumber (food growing + arsenic-impregnated wood = Bad), 2) long-lasting. I checked out the "PlasTeak" material - Holy Smokes! Ever price that stuff? If you have high blood pressure, don't!

Then I recalled the Azek topic here, and now I have US$3,200 worth of the stuff waiting on me to cut and assemble. It's neat material to finally see and touch, and I'll be starting the cutting today. The Azek company has a water-based adhesive for it, I'll be using that (I think) as the primary way to bond the material. Will report back in with impressions and observations.

So far, it looks like it would be great stuff for inside of a boat - it is basically a very dense foam with a slightly mottled but solid surface to it. I think it would have more flotation than plywood. It is much bendier than plywood, even in 1" thickness (very unscientifically, 1" thick Azek appears to be as bendy as 1/4" plywood). I believe that it can bond with polyester/epoxy, will experiment with that to see. If I have some scraps left over after the job, I'll make some samples to send around if anyone is interested. Here at least, the Azek has to be specially ordered. On my website are several pictures of a Com-Pac 23 which was heavily modified in the interior, and Azek was used as the material (modded CP23 (http://liquid-epiphany.com/index.php?module=photoalbum&PHPWS_Album_op=view&PAGER_limit=9&PAGER_start=0&PAGER_section=1) - pic below ).

My prices through Home Depot were as follows (thickness x width x length):

1" x 4' x 20' - $418
3/4" x 4' x 18' - $303
1" x 4" x 18' - $30

So it's pricier than wood, but with 0 maintenance (unless you choose to paint it) and no chance of rot, it probably has some applications where the suitability of the material will outweigh the cost considerations.

CP-23's usually have only flat space in the V-berth. All of the white material you see here making cabinets etc is Azek.
http://liquid-epiphany.com/images/photoalbum/7/1114337_7.jpg

[Gravey]

:cool:
Eric has been in touch with Azek and did mucho testing before begining this project. I was sworn to not to divulge the secret of this construction technique ,but it has Azek's blessing I was told .
If we are not to know of this technique, then why tell us that it exsists?

[ebb]

NO bikinis and I'm outahere. Really

Love of boats, love of life, love of beauty (and as much as possible: love of humanity) is to me what this oasis is about.
Celebrate life by contrasting good with the bad and ugly. Pretty boat - ugly boat.

Pretty girl - ugly girl. What is the difference? In every case it has been hilarious visual social commentary and in context metaphorical and apropos.
Better not to substitute prudery for pulchritude - that is dangerous ground around sailors.

Seems to be high class intelligent adult clientel in the club here who won't be led astray by a bit of fun.

[commanderpete]

Yeah Baby!

Bring it on