Deck hardware plan, and

[c_amos]

Deck hardware

As you have no doubt gathered from my last few posts I have quietly started dismantling and (at times I fear) doing irreparable harm to my beloved Ariel ‘Faith’. I know it always looks awful when you are working on it, and it is hard to leave her all torn up like she is right now.

I knew there were some issues to deal with, but put off all summer, then through the fall and finally gave in when I blew my headsail. I am now in maintenance mode. :(

I removed the deck hardware aft of the cockpit. Removed the stern light, and flag staff mount. (going with LED tri-color mast head light)

CARVED out the silicone (see other thread) and filled in the holes with glass and epoxy.

I have used the heat gun and stripped the layer of resin that had been poured in on top of the paint :rolleyes: in the lazarette. I then sanded the edges and re-tabbed the deck edge in and glassed new backing plates in (approx 6” x 9”) under both sides where the cleats will mount.

On to the point of this thread.

My deck hardware plan

Aft;

Two 6” 316 stainless chocks about where the originals mounted.

Two Hershoff style 316 stainless Cleats mounted over the glassed in plates. These will have 1” stainless fender washers in addition to the backing plates. I bought 8” cleats, but these do not seem large enough to me, so I have ordered a set of 10” cleats.

http://i18.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/17/d3/ce_1.JPG

Going to re-use the pad-eyes for the chute, don't have one but that does not mean I never will.

Amidships;

New stainless for the Jib sheets, 8" stainless.

The 8” stainless cleats will go amidships, near the rail. I know most folks use the stanchion, but I want a cleat there for when I need a amidships spring. I currently tie to the stanchion base, and it is a pain at times.

Foredeck

I have a 25lb CQR that I am mounting on the bow on a roller. It is going stbd, parallel to the centerline right up next to the head stay plate. (where the stbd chock is now).

I will replace the port chock with a stainless chock, and add a set approx 18’ aft on the toe rail.

http://images.andale.com/f2/123/102/10393999/click2enlarge/1076793077625_Chock_DSCF0084.jpg

I am looking to mount a Samson post (centerline of course) about 1/3 of the way back on the foredeck. My thinking is that I can make up the lines through the aft chocks when tieing up, or through the roller when anchoring and through the foreward chock when using the secondary anchor.

http://images.andale.com/f2/106/129/17849460/1098684003667_6b_1_b.JPG

I am debating on mounting a second set of cleats up forward, maybe just inboard of the aft chocks. That way I would have more then one point on the bow to make up to in storm preps.

I have another set of 12” Hershoff cleats I can use, that I was going to place in-line like the cleats are now.

Thoughts?

[commanderpete]

Cool. I always wanted a Samson Post. I wonder if it would tend to snag the jib sheet when tacking?

The two additional cleats up forward may be over-kill. They would also be going through cored deck. Might want to beef up the deck from underneath if they're going to get hard use. You'll see how Pearson glassed in a piece of wood on centerline for the cleat.

Chocks. Some of them are real line-cutters. The ones they sell all seem to have fairly sharp edges. I'd like to see them more rounded on the inside.

Seems to me that boats rarely get loose because the deck hardware fails, or the rope is to weak. Its always chafe cutting the line.

[c_amos]

As I start to re-install the hardware, I have a couple questions.

Looking at the manual, pg 148, I see the 'spin cleat' located 2' aft of the Jib sheet cleat (which is 17" aft the winch).

#226 had a pair of square pad eyes there, which I figured were for a chute. (maybe in place of the cleats in the drawing)

The only padeyes the manual shows are at end of the Genoa tracks labled "Lifeline eye plate".

Adding more confusion is the fact that #226 also had a second set of cleats, FWD of the winches :confused:

So........

As I posted I am planning the 10" cleats aft(with a 6"x9" 1/4"aluminum backing plate) :) with 6" chocks for mooring (& the drogue).

Then, of course there are the 8" jib sheet cleats, which will go back about the same place 17" aft the winch was orig, I guess I will go about 17". What is the rule of thumb about the angle of the cleats?

Then there are the 4" square padeyes approx even with the end of the cockpit. I will re-install these, even though I don't have a chute. I want to be able to run one, and they are good jack line tie off points if not needed for the chute (I admit being pretty much in the dark on this one).

I am not planning on putting the third set of cleats back on, that were just forward for the winches. I don't really understand what these were there for...

Any guesses?

Do you need a second set of cleats for a chute? It seems like the Jib sheet cleats would be unused when you would be flying it :confused:

[Mike Goodwin]

Do you really want a Samson Post ?
If so what are you going to do with the bitt in that photo?

A samson post is part of the crane or derrick on a cargo ship , the vertical part , often seen in pairs and reffered to as "goalposts" when the booms are housed for going to sea.
In very old sailing lingo it was a temporary post erected on deck to help in shipping an anchor to the cathead.

Arrrgh matey, you guys are getting too lubberly during the long cold winter of no sailing!

[c_amos]

Thanks Mike,

I guess I needed a 'bitt' of correction there. :p

Any clues as to the third set of cleats? Or suggestions about the cleat angles?



I have tried to look at pictures of others boats, but have found few clues. :confused:

[commanderpete]

I really don't know anything about spinnakers, but I think you first have to figure out where to put the turning blocks or track and maybe even another set of winches.

Those cleats on the deck don't seem too good to me. The line would have to be flat to the deck before they would even work. How could that work with the line coming off the winch?

With a spinnaker, you might even want cam cleats to blow the chute quickly.

There's a little something on the Harken website

http://www.harken.com/rigtips/spinnaker.php

[c_amos]

Commanderpete,

That diagram actually clears it up for me quite a bit. It appears that the aft pad eyes ('G' in the diagram) are to secure blocks that turn the lead back to the winch which would make sense to have to cleats fwd to receive the lines on the other side (with the lines now leading forward).

I will try to take some pictures later of the set up as I imagine it, to clear this up. I am going out to apply another coat of topcoat now.

Thanks!

[ebb]

Mike,
What do you belay the anchor warp to?
Isn't a very strong attachment point on deck that the whole weight of the boat is hanging on to in a hurricane a good thing?
What do you suggest is best, a 15" cleat? :D :confused:

[Mike Goodwin]

Ebb,
If I were cruising, I would install a 4x4 hardwood post thru the deck and tie into the forward chain locker bulkhead . That is the way it is done on big boats and ships. The post goes all the way to the keel and sits in a step .
This post could be stainless or bronze if you have the bucks .
The top of the post could/would look just like the polished bitt in the first post.
A little re-inforcing under the deck wouldn't hurt either .

I prefer bitts over cleats , a double bitt is better yet .

[ebb]

Thanks Mike,
I would too. A warping post. A compleatly trustworthy point of attachment!
I've looked at it and see that bringing the post down to the stem would pretty well compromise the space, it's not much, but useful open like it is. So my thoughts have also gone to the bolt on 'samson post.' Or larger double cleats on the deck. What ever way the underdeck must be beefed up!

Placing the post, it is natural to have it go thru the deck matching the plywood bulkhead, either to the inside or the outside, guts tell me inside. That's a question? 338's deck is compromised, but c.amos must have some leeway. Where it go? Is the post part of your anchoring system?

On a thru deck post, have taken a good bit of wood off the sides once it has left the blocking under the deck. That is, pointed the post somewhat on 3 sides its whole lower length. (The side that will attach to the bulkhead would stay flat, no short grain.) This might keep the forepeak a little more useful. Is this worth doing?

On the gaff rig I had I also put two in the quarters (with regalvanized open pipe pieces thru the top.) The trouble with posts, in my truncated experience. is that they are only good for looping an eye over. You still need cleats for end tying a line. Right? Tying off on a post created an ungainly and awkward heap of line.

So, for the Ariel foredeck, a full 4X4 would not be too much?
What wood might you choose? Bungabunga? Don't think teak can take serious chaffing. Has to be dense and hard and no checking.
I had a whiteoak post once, it developed cracks, never was a way to keep it looking good.

There is the issue of this hunk piercing the deck and how do you caulk it?
I had collars of 1/2" ply (that always looked like ply no matter what I did) like the chainplates have that only worked around the posts because it increased the surface area of the caulk. I think it could always want to leak, probably still does ifn the boat is alive still, given the shrinking and swelling of wood problem. Any fresh water at the join contributes to rot. What to do, what to do..? Thanks

Mike, was thinking, you'd probably caulk the seam with oakum, correct?

[Mike Goodwin]

My choice is , ash post set with wedges of cedar bedded in 5200 .
I like running it all the way down, tie the bitter end to the lower post .
Put a 1/2" bronze round stock through the post above deck. 2 round turns topped with a clove hitch and that line isn't going anywhere and wont chafe line or post. chamfer the edges of the post of course .
Under the deck a 12x12x1.5" block bored 5" square to house the post , wedged with 1/2" cedar set in 5200 . I have done about 120 or so like this with no leaks so far . I think a pure bead of 5200 1/2x1" would work as good if the post was well attached to the bulkhead.

[ebb]

Thanks Mike,
Will be looking for the ash, pronto! :D

[commanderpete]

Oh boy. Isn't some other part of your anchor system going to fail before the forward cleat gets ripped clean through the wood and out of the deck? At least the anchor is going to drag.

I do think it's worthwhile to put in new bolts and add a larger backing plate.

I got some 1/4" aluminum too Craig. Nice fellow let me have some from his scrap cutting bucket. Lifetime supply. Never hurts to ask.

Now how do I cut it? Angle grinder?

[c_amos]

Couple shots of my 10" cleats aft.

Perfect for towing a drogue, or maybe moonlighting as 'Sea-Tow';)

[c_amos]

As I wander through my projects list, I have found my way to the bow.

I am very happy with the 10" cleats aft, and now plan to upgrade the midships cleats to 10" also.

The 'Stainless' cleats have been a bit of a disappointment in the sense that they are not only mostly stainless. :rolleyes:

Now thinking about changing over to bronze..... have already sold most of the other stainless ones I had planned to use.

Latest plan includes the removal of the pair of original alloy chocks on the bow and adding a roller on a raised platform (not hanging very far over the bow, with big ole backing plate).

The original dorade is going away (no way to secure it against ingress of water), and a capped deck fitting will go somewhere where it makes sense.

Pair of cleats about 12" aft from the stem fitting will serve for mooring, while the bit will take the anchor rode.

That's the plan anyway, I will post pictures of how it all works out.

OBTW, I am making pads on the deck to mount the bow pulpit, and other hardware on. My hope is that having these areas that are vulnerable to leaks less so.

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on 6 10" bronze cleats?

[Bill]

Anyone know where I can get a good deal on 6 10" bronze cleats?

What about post #25 at http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?p=13247#post13247
??

[commanderpete]

Mid-ship cleats are a good thing. I'm going to install some larger ones

The cowl vent can be a water scoop when its rough out.
Most of the time I have it turned around.

I just picked up this 4" dorade box with baffle on sale for $80. The plan is to remove the cowl vent and mount a nicro solar vent on top of the dorade box.

http://www.marinershardware.com/OrdDorChes.php

If you're going to have an anchor roller platform, that might be a good place to have a tack fitting for an Asymmetrical spinnaker

[c_amos]

What about post #25 at http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?p=13247#post13247
??

Thanks Bill,

If I were going back with the original 6" cleats that would work. I have decided to use 3 sets of 10" bronze hershoff cleats. I am enjoying to larger cleats I have put on the stern, but not enjoying the little bits of surface rust I have had to polish off.... :rolleyes: I guess they were 304 and not 316.... :confused:

My slip faces out to the river, and it can get rough so I like 5/8" lines, and the 10" cleat easily accepts the stern line, and the after spring.

http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10014/normal_10inBronzeCleat.jpg

[c_amos]

Early on in this thread I posted;


I have another set of 12” Hershoff cleats I can use, that I was going to place in-line like the cleats are now.

Thoughts?

I wanted BIG cleats... 10" is perfect (IMHO). The 12" cleats looked SO MUCH bigger, and were WAY too large for an Ariel. I sold them to a guy with a 45' powerboat.

[Robert Lemasters]

Recent view of the chocks on my Commander, Njord. I like these, lines have never chaffed even in our recent Nor Easters which damaged lines on my Pearson 26 and the lines never slip out. Note the solar garden stern light, we still do not have electrical power on the dock from three years ago, will remove it when we get electrical sometime next week. Light helps boarding at night.

[c_amos]

Robert,

Those are nice chocks... I understand that is the type they specify for transit of the Panama canal... so in case that is in your plans you are all set. :D


I have made some progress, the bow roller is mounted, as is the bow pulpit and stantions. I have the bow cleats centered between the mounting bases for the bow pulpit, about 2" in from the rail. (yes, I know... I will take some pictures... )

Now my question is where to mount hte mid ships cleats. I believe that the center of the Ariel falls right in between the portlights. That space is already taken by a stantion. I am thinking that I would rather have them slightly aft of that, as that is probably closer to the center of lateral resistance (where the balance point would be if you tried to drag the boat through the water sideways. A friend of mine made a pretty good argument for trying to figure out exactly where that point was and mountng them there....

I wonder if anyone has looked at this before, or knows a reason why they might be better placed somewhere other then just aft of midships>?

Thanks,

[commanderpete]

Sometimes you want to run a line fore or aft from the cleat.

If the cleat is too close to the stantion the line might rub against it.

[ebb]

Thanks for the cool visual, C'Pete.

Is there any further discussion here?
We see two alternatives for spring lines.
I favor the first example because very often you don't have the one or two dock cleats as diagramed. (And the springs would be too long if taken to the dock's bow and stern cleats.)

If I saw a sailboat tied up as shown in the second example, I would be looking at a temporary solution, as I imagine one line is tied off to a sheet winch at the cockpit and another to maybe a shroud plate or turnbuckle. Right?

Also, what is happening to the spring lines as they cross at the rail? Here would I mount a chock rather than a cleat? Don't know that a line friendly chock is available that would take even one line at a fair angle?

The first example shows what has to be a midship tie-off cleat. Where do we mount such a cleat on the Ariel? On the rail or next to the cabin?
A tie-off point on the rail would take some real installation finesse. An inboard cleat would be a tripper and a cusser. And a midships cleat or chock can run afoul of a rail stanchion.

You have these lay-down and pop-up cleats now, but they would require you make a deep unsightly pocket for them in the middle of the cabin! It looks like a cleat on the rail is the only option?

Be great to see a photo if somebody has figured this out.

Anybody have an idea, or more?

[Tim Mertinooke]

Not cheap and designed to fit nicely on a Cape Dory toerail, these Spartan Marine beauties might solve a lot of problems such as the spring line rubbing against a stantion or worse a foot injury from an awkward-placed cleat on the sidedeck. I do not know how they might fit on the glass toerail on the Ariel, but my friend has them on his CD-27 and they are SWEET! The last thing I want is a speed bump to the foredeck.
http://www.ariel-cd36.org/projects_midshipcleatsbig.jpg

http://www.ariel-cd36.org/projects_midshipcleatinstalledbig.jpg

[mbd]

Those are gorgeous! They'd look lovely on Ebb's new toe rails! :)

This location works just fine for me. It's out of the walkway and I really like having the mid-ship cleats.

[mbd]

Here's another view. You can see the cleat is tucked between the stanchion base and the chainplate, so toes are never really subjected to the pointy ends. Fortunately, a PO installed it so I never had to think about where to put it...

[Tim Mertinooke]

I love the companionway and forward hatch on #414 covered with strips of wood. Did you do that or the PO? Teak or Mahogany? Mechanically fastened or adhered? I think I just added another project to my list. That brings the number up to about 1851 so far...

BTW-Delivery of A-24 to my house should be within a week. Then I'm going to go post-happy.

[mbd]

Thanks Tim. I'd like to take credit, but that is one on many nice touches a PO added when restoring her a few years back. They are teak veneer (I think) that has been adhered. Not something I would have thought of doing, but I really like the look. All I get credit for so far is cutting up the decks... :o

Happy delivery!

[ebb]

That there midrail cleat toe-knocker does look out of the way there.

Those nice Sparten bronze combos are sweet Herreschoff like fittins aren't they? The photo showing one in a rail is interesting because it is not dapped in all the way as in would normally be - and it looks just fine, doesn't it? I'd grind the ends rounded.

The Ariel molded toe rail is 1 1/2" high off the deck. I can't see any reason why those Spartens couldn't be installed IN the toerail. You'd have to be a contortionist to do it with out removing original shelves inside. But there isn't much special about them! They're only 1960's A/C plywood.

How deep are the Spartens under the end flanges? That's the key.
Another little clitch is the 1/2 round s.s. seam trim. I suppose if it's not glued on by now you could loosen screws and push 'rubrail' down the little bit required for the toerail surgery - maybe.

You'd probably CUT THE TOE RAIL to fit with the those flanges sitting on the rail. Then you'd prep the inside, now that you can see, by packing the cove with glass a good distance up and down from the opening. Just imagining here:
Then you'd set about filling the hole under the fitting and building it up to some thickness. Probably have to do some crafty sculpting to make the fitting look factory. But that's what epoxy is good at. Might think about over sizing the bolts, too. Could give the installation good strength with some over-building just in case that fititng gets some sparten tugging on it!

Just the bolts alone will make you gasp. What do those cleat/chocks go for these days?? Look heavy.
Wouldn't they look fantastic?:cool:

[Tim Mertinooke]

One Spartan mid-rail cleat = $120 Burnished or $150 polished.

Small price to pay to have the sexiest toerails in the harbor.

Here is a link to the CD forum where installation was discussed.
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=19868&highlight=midship+cleat


Here is a link to the Spartan Marine catalog. Prepare to drool and before you click on the link, hide your credit cards...
http://www.spartanmarine.com/

[ebb]

Thanks Tim!
Here's my take, for what it's worth.
Course you'd need two of'em. The tariff starts getting unreasonable after that! Probably need strut bolts too. $$ Imco the bolts should be US made as they should have a solid shank with threads only at the bottom.

Guy on Cape Dory site says something real important when discussing backing plates for this Spartan chock. That is, the fastenings be very close to the hull. Maybe closer on the Ariel. You'll be lucky to be able to slip washers on the bolts. (Of course I'm assuming the cove on either side of the cut you're making in the rail will be filled so you can see the bolt ends and nuts of the flanges down below.

With 338's new wood toerail many times I slanted the bolts in at a real generous angle - I thought - and often there was barely enough room to turn the nut on. Though the situation is different in that the coves in 338 were already filled and level with the deck inside - more depth. Was lucky I didn't get into more trouble than I did! Have to keep in mind that the hull is turning inward the deeper a hole is drilled from the rail. Also the factory buildup of matt over the hull/deck joint was thicker in some places than others in 338. That made the hull overall thicker at the seam. Hard to judge the angles. (Had to grind into the hull at times where the bolt came thru to put a washer on. Nope, didn't grind thru the hull. These Spartan fittings are amidships so making allowance for hull thickness it should be straight forward. It always was a surprise on 338 - about 50 of them!)

But, also pointed out on the C.D. site, there isn't much in the way of redundant strength in the way this narrow Spartan fitting has to be installed. All the fastenings are right at the edge of the boat and in a straight line. The load can be spread out some by building up the deck underneath inside imco - a super built-in-place backing plate.

Suppose you built a long and wide pad up of about 3/8" thickness..... Five thru bolts into that and it'd be hard to imagine the fitting will ever pull out. With bronze bolts I'd add some plywood too to build in some give for the softer metal. When you cut the rail out where the fitting will be, there will be a hole that requires a new bottom to it. Just won't be able to tab in a whole lot of fabric and still have room for nuts and washers on the bolts.

There is the problem of tieing back the hull to the deck in way of the cut. Because the bolts will be so close to the hull I'll make an assumption that there will be no way to tab the deck to the hull where the cut is made in the rail - right there where it's needed. One or two layers of fabric for waterproofing, that's it. The hull/deck tie-in might be made with MULTIPLE STRIPS from deck to hull BETWEEN the bolts (and over the backing pad.) Could work! Once the rail is cut and a fitting is in hand, it will become clear what the solution will be. Hard to imagine what this rather unusual installation will entail. Visually, the bolt ends and nuts will appear to be in little coves, if built up as suggested. It's hard to visualize without the seeing the fitting.

Awrahhht, whose guuna do it?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
[Might have talked myself out of it for 338's wood rails. I like the fitting, BUT have an innate problem with a working cleat that far outboard - and on a wood rail. Imagine what forces there would be on the fitting with a 90 degree pull on it from the dock. It's strength comes only when the pull on it is more fore and aft -as with spring lines.

Mentally I saw the fitting palled up with two widely spaced cleats on deck. That is, for me the fitting would serve better as a double fairlead chock, and the center cleat hardly ever used. And then forgot about it because it was getting complicated.

Also given the narrow angles of the spring lines coming aboard thru the fitting, I thought the hard edges at the ends of the chock pretty severe. But could they be filed rounder? The cleat base is nicely rounded, they might have done the same with the ends! Maybe it's not an issue. Haven't actually held these guys, first hand.]

[c_amos]

Saw these real nice chocks at Bacon & Associates (the place most folks know as a great sail loft (http://www.baconsails.com/index.html) also does marine hardware consignment. (http://baconsails.com/ships_store/index.php?cPath=426))

The size looked pretty good for a toe rail cut-away install.

http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10014/BaconCleat.jpg

Not a great picture, but here is the 10" bronze cleat on the bow. It is pretty much centered between the bases for the bow pulpit;

http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10014/Cleat1.jpg

[c_amos]

After almost a month's cruising the mid-ships cleats are a great asset. Our Ariels don't back against a current, and I have not really got room for a bow thruster.... :p The mid ships cleats are working out pretty nicely.

Here is a picture;

http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10577/WMidShipsCleat.jpg

THis was taken off shore headed into Charleston, it was a calm day. :D

Having cruised full time for almost a month, and lived aboard for the month before that neither I nor the 1st mate have stubbed toe on it (yet) :cool:

10" looked so big compared to the smallish (IMHO) original hardware, but it is nice to be able to tie both ends of a fender and a spring line to the same cleat.

[mbd]

Atta boy Craig!

Now, being the originator of this thread, you should feel duty-bound to post lots of pics of your completed deck hardware layout, including comments of what worked and what didn't on your now cruise-tested hardware placement. :D

Then start another thread and fill us all in on your cruise. :rolleyes:

[c_amos]

Atta boy Craig!

Now, being the originator of this thread, you should feel duty-bound to post lots of pics of your completed deck hardware layout, including comments of what worked and what didn't on your now cruise-tested hardware placement. :D

Covered much of this on this thread;

Anchor Roller thread (http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?p=20093)

I have to say that the 3 sets of bronze cleats worked out better then I could have hoped. I love being able to make a line fast, and a fender on any cleat. The placement was pretty good, I still have all my toes intact. I remember when I was installing them, I got teased about applying for a job with sea tow... Well, Rose and I met James and Mei Baldwin (of Triton Atom fame, multiple circumnavigations super knowledgeable and all around great folks... well James Baldwin liked my cleats.. :D


Then start another thread and fill us all in on your cruise. :rolleyes:

Read all 10 pages of that here;

S/V 'Faith' (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=72.0) on SailFar.net

[c_amos]

Had a PM about the Bit, I deleted it trying to reply and now filled my box again so I am just posting my reply here. :p

I looked online and Yes, it is the ABI unit. I put it up on a raised pad, but I like the way this guy did it better (http://bristol29.com/Projects/Deck%20Projects/Deck.htm#_Installing_the_Mooring_Bit_) (although I might not have gone quite as high as he did.)

The welding on the ABI Bit was good, but I would have liked to have found one like Tim put on Glissando. (http://www.triton381.com/projects/restoration/deckhardware.htm)

http://www.triton381.com/images/foredeck-42201.jpg


I think it is funny he did his backing plate just like I did mine (his is much more pretty... (http://www.triton381.com/projects/restoration/mooringbitbacker.htm)).

Gotta love that bronze... not soo sure about the square though, not a bug fan of corners. Probably rounded off well enough... sure is purdy... :D

[ebb]

Your friend did a fronting plate for his mooring bit - which looks like a Whitecap stamped 304 stainless. The joint (what joint - looks like a press fit) between the plate and the post would bother me. He filled the space inside the base with epoxy, if salt water ever gets in it's curtains for the fitting.
Imco the backup plate for a mooring bit should be twice the area and underneath.* There and with the deck, it will add a lot of stability and pull out resistance to a fitting that at times will be under heavy load.

Tim's bit looks like a BuckAlgonquin cast Bronze 7X7. The largest size.
Beautifully proportioned! The generous radius sweep of the base into the post is the give-away.
B.A. also makes a cast 316 stainless version of each of the four bronze sizes with a smaller radius transition base to post.
Hamilton does not catalog the bronze anymore. Except for a 6X6 plain bronze for purists like me. ($147.99.)
Both 7X7 cast models are about $200.
Deep Blue Marine carries the range with prices about the same as H.

Perko makes chromed bronze similar pattern with what looks like knife edged square post. (6X6" $270 Jamestown)
The photos of BuckAlgonquin cast stainless look pretty SHARP CORNERED to me in their catalog.
Probably doesn't bother modern cordage this kind of thing. But it bothers my aesthetic sense. Would have been a snap to chamfer the corners of the mold! There are round post mooring bits but usually larger pattern and expensive.
Shouldn't ask why we don't have a choice, in the smaller versions, between square and round post? What's goin on???:(

Jamestown has an extensive range of B.A. stuff: thruhulls, oarlocks, seacocks, and deckpipes - but no mooring bits - go figure!
Defender has a Whitecap on line, but nothing in their print catalog.
W.M. has a single small chinese door-stop in their print.
And Bristol Bronze, who you'd think would have mooring bits, casts a paper-weight sized bronze one that stands 2 1.2" tall !!!! Go for it!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
*Ariels have a 4" wide 3/4" ply strip embedded in the composite running down the center of the deck. Core on either side. Pearson attached the original marinum mooring cleat thru this.

[mbd]

I got my bronze mooring bit from Deep Blue Yachts (http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/series.aspx?id=26) a couple of years ago. It's a Buck Algonquin 5x5 (Part No. 00MB5X5 on the website). I've been very pleased with it.

[ebb]

Mike,
Looks like plain bronze. Is it a trick of light?
I'd rather have the plain, and it sure looks like your 5X5 is the right size for our deck.:D

[mbd]

It's not polished, but cast bronze, if that's what you mean. The 5x5 is just right IMHO. In practice, it's plenty big enough to hold whatever I put on it (2 mooring pennants or an anchor rode), and it's small enough where it doesn't get in the way too badly. I think the price has gone up like 20 bucks since I got mine though. :(

[ebb]

Hey Mike,
(getting too old for this game...)
Deep Blue Yacht Supply lists 'cast bronze plain' but shows what looks like a CHROMED bronze model in the single pic on their mooring bit page.
Chromed would add I guess at least half as much more to the cost!
No pic of the stainless mooring bits.
[A Perko sharpy from Jamestown sets you back $232.91 for a chromes 5X5!]


Currently a plain 5X5 B.A. is $91 plus shipping.

Bronze used to come either 1) right out of the mold,
2) cleaned up with casting marks removed and smoothed,
or 3) highly buffed. You paid for the blinging.
If you have access to buffing wheels it's not all that difficult to really shine up a plain bronze fitting.
Personally really like the non-shiney mooring bit in Mike's photo.

Has anybody contemplated putting a couple smaller ones in the stern quarters?


Is the cross bar
part of the casting or added later?

[mbd]

Currently a plain 5X5 is $91 plus shipping. ...Is the cross bar part of the casting or added later?

That's the one - 00MB5X5 - just plain bronze, not polished. I've may have a more recent picture of the bitt I can post tonight if you're interested.

The cross bar was added later.

[mbd]

You can see it here amidst the foredeck crew. It doesn't seem to get in the way of their duties in the slightest... :rolleyes:

[ebb]

Hard working crew there Mike!

Know that modern line is extremely tuff and strong,
but that painter your using on that nicely patinated morring bit looks a bit small!

And what's that third bump in the deck there - your bow light?
Just kidding.

Keep up those training sessions.:D

[mbd]

Heh! That "painter" is to keep my silver painted nicro or whatever-it-is cowl vent on the deck - my spiffy bronze (painted nicro or whatever-it-is) cowl one took a dive a couple of seasons ago.

Yes, and that "bump" is a classic Pearson original deck pipe fitting, as I'm certain you know.

All awaiting the time when I can afford to cough up the boat bucks for more "proper" deck bling.

[c_amos]

THe good Captain Ebb has returned my Cowl to me after he concluded to he was going another direction.

I always liked the cowl vent, and never experienced taking significant water below through it.... I removed it since I was heading out for an extended cruise and expected to see big seas... which we did.

I am no longer fearful of having the 3" hole in the bow, with a scoup.... The bow rarely crashes into the waves, and the receptacle can be plugged with a standard 3" PVC pluming cap.

When it was mounted before, I had it on the Stbd side and used it to pass the chain down into the locker. It was really nice being able to pass links even when they were laid up on each other.

SO.... what say the peanut gallery? Should I replace the 1.5" capped chain scuttle and just place this back in same location? Should I leave the cap, and place the cowl on the port side?

What say the gallery?

Here is a picture, kinda tough to see... I will look for a better one.

6983

[ebb]

Craig,
Upscale marina there! Looks like you're tied up to a putting green!
Like that stealth bimini too!

Once saw an interesting way to waterproof deck holes.

You mount a chain pipe* fitting onto a wood pad that has a groove all round its side so a canvas cap can be lashed over the thing. Like a winch cover.

Another idea for rough weather is to remove the cowl and replace it with an aluminum disk. Don't know if that would work with the ole cowl you have.


But you are in Florida
and there must be others here in the bleacher seats who would like to know
how you reduce damp and mold in the forepeak. Is the old cowl enough?
Won't rain get in?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________
* why is a traditional curved bronze chainpipe fitting not designed with a gasketed screw on cover?
It's not as if the pipe has to be instantly available at all times for the anchor chain, right?
The center of the cap could have a loose hook through it - that could take a chain link - so it would be right there for the anchor when the cap is unscrewed.
As it is, it is instantly available to take water below. The bonnet idea seems doable.

[Tony G]

Ahhh. Always a pleasure to look on her beauty. Hands down one of the best looking boats in the fleet.

I have seen photos of the set-up Ebb is talking about. I thought one could have a canvas cover rough weather and a mesh cover for when the bitin' little b@$!@*%$ are out. We have the screw-in aluminum(?) cap that came with the cowl but I'm gathering there are not many out there that aren't on the bottom of some harbour or lake.

Do you have problems with your present chain pipe, Craig? An inch and a half does seem kind of narrow. Normally I turn to you for advice so maybe I should refrain from offering my opinion.;)

[c_amos]

...Do you have problems with your present chain pipe, Craig? An inch and a half does seem kind of narrow. Normally I turn to you for advice so maybe I should refrain from offering my opinion.;)

Please don't ever do that Tony. :)

Yes, the 1.5" pipe is a bit tight, never had a chain snag where I could not clear it with a twist or two though....

Was down working on the boat all day, had brought the 4 1/8 hole saw to re-mount the cowl. I was all set to remove the chain pipe, and mount it there (which is pretty close to where it was)... it did not feel right.

I am going to do some more thinking on this one.


FWIW, the OEM pearson cowl takes a standard PVC pipe cap (even has the right threads). I suspect the OEM screw in cap you have is a rare bit of kit.


Ahhh. Always a pleasure to look on her beauty. Hands down one of the best looking boats in the fleet.

Thanks, those where her 'glamor shots' taken at my retirement (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,72.msg11211.html#msg11211) (of which she was a proud participant).

[c_amos]

....how you reduce damp and mold in the forepeak. Is the old cowl enough?
Won't rain get in?...

There never was any significant water ingress through that cowl when I had it mounted on the bow (before I removed it). I suspect that in the right conditions it could let some in but since the anchor locker has a drain anyway it would not be much of an issue in my mind anyway... but then again that might just be because there is not much room in there (my mind)... ;)

[c_amos]

I realized i never updated this thread with the results.

After living with the hardware set up I arrived at in this thread, I am very pleased.

As I just posted in another thread;


I have had my Windline URM-3 on the bow of Faith with excellent results.

The Manson likes it, the bail clears well, and the anchor sits on it nicely.

The curve of the anchor rides on the front of the roller when the rode is tensioned (secured)... this picks up the tip of the anchor nicely, and cuts down on the rattle / clanging that can happen in rough conditions.

https://windline.com/images/products/URM-3%20Large.jpg



The Bow roller was placed on a 1" block of white oak encapsulated in epoxy and serverly through bolted to the deck. It was backed by a large plywood backing plate beneith, that was bedded to the underside of the deck to transfer the loads nicely. The plywood backing plate was also cpvered with an aluminum plate to make sure the bolts could not pull through the plywood.

Here is a picture of it while the deck was being re-done;

7363

Here is a (unfortunately poor) picture once the cleats were added....

... and the boat was cruised and used hard for several months;

7364

[c_amos]

Just saw this picture elsewhere (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f64/used-fire-hose-for-chafing-equipment-74663.html#post861339)...

LOOK at those CHOCKS!

8099

[Tony G]

WHOA! I wasn't ready for that one! Are those custom made? They are u....unusual. And isn't the rode supposed to in the chocks? Or is the hose to protect the rode where it rides on the rail? I gotta say, Craig, that photo confuses me.

[c_amos]

No expert, just saw it on the internet. I believe the boat is a Wayfarer 24, and the lines seem to be part of a bridle for a mooring ball. There are two very large sections of fire hose being used as chafe guard...

I recall Ebb talking about wanting big chocks with wide angles... I saw the picture, and thought I would share it.

--------

FWIW, my set up has been working exceptionally well. The large cleats lead 'up' to most any dock or pileing so there is very little chafe. I have not felt the need to add a rubstrake on top of the deckedge.

I know they are really really big by some standards, but I still really like the 10" cleats forward, midships, and aft. I mostly single hand, and just this evening coming in from a nice days sail in the dark I was thinking how nice it was to easily slip my spring lines midships while the boat was moving into the slip...

[ebb]

Those chocks in the photo need to be reversed I think, to have the line that goes thru them lead forward without going around a sharp edge.
A sharp edge that would wear away chaffing gear just as easily as the line will if bent at a sharp angle in the fitting.

But also that crisscross there may be necessary so that there is a fair lead for the line into the chock.

My idea for a proper chock would be to use a bollard style double post* with angled tops to help keep the warp from lifting out. Wouldn't have any of this sharp angle stuff that is so popular.
the two fore chocks would have to be bigger fittings. Also able to handle warp in chaffing gear.
Even the top angle pieces should be rounded in case the line spends any time in the up position - like at a tidal dock or riding out a strorm with ups and downs.

I have the clay model that needs developing. One of these days.

*The British Davies line of traditional bronze fittings show some 'bollard' style chocks, but need sculptural upgrading for modern anchoring.

Imco it would be better to have the cleats near the chocks so that the warp eye loop leads overboard with the splice overboard and not able to rub, or get yanked and stretched, or work on anything.
The eye and splice for storm work, or any anchoring, should probably be parceled and served with the loop leathered where it bears in the cleat.
I know that sounds rediculous to some.
But the connection to the boat has to be just as extreme as the storm you expect the boat to survive. Don't know that that is an opinion.

There may be other ways, I'm sure.