Main Sheet Traveler

[Bill]

Here is the mainsheet traveler setup on Maika'i. Sail control is awsome.

[scottwilliams]

Very cool This is exactly how I was going to approach it. I am replacing all extrior wood with teak and thought this same idea would look good and provide a great traveler platform. Glad to hear it has worked out well - Thanks Scott 269

[noeta-112]

Bill,

Now you've done it....Got me drooling all over my paperwork at the office...

Nice setup! Someone went and cut a big notch above the access hatch to the motorwell in Noeta right where your swiveling cam is.

BOY, That looks like the cat's meow to me. Would that be a "medium" Harken traveler car? Is your main sheet 3/8" and ...and ...

Nice rig!

Guess I have to force myself back to basics as I still need a mooring and an anchor and gotta fix the masthead and stiffen up the strongback and try to get to half of the upgrades in the manual. It's gettin up into the 40's here once in awhile so gotta hurry!

[noeta-112]

Bill,

Are you using a double block with becket attached to the boom tang or are there 2 single blocks attached to the boom?
(looks like a double from the line spacing.) What type and size blocks are they?

Do you find any problem with leach tension using the traveler on a flat track and controling via the swivel base. I read somewhere that the swivel base setup could put extra tension on the leech unless the track ends were curved upward. Afraid I can't quite grasp the concept ... having so little sailing experience.

Is that the small swivel base for use with a 2.25" (harken) single?

Inquiring minds... By the way ... Is there a good reference as to where & how to attach all the bits of standing (& original running) gear on the Ariel?????

[S.Airing]

Heres a poor mans traveler

[French]

I have seen nothing on your boat that comes under poor man ;-)

Wow! You have a shore power hook up!! Self installed?

[S.Airing]

Yea I put that in 10 years ago,not that hard to do really.

[French]

Here is the Yin's
whihc would seem a good reason to have a boom brake...

[Brent]

Bill/French,

Do you guys have part #'s for your configurations? I'd like to price each out to see what I can afford with #66.

French's looks more affordable, but Bill's setup looks much more attractive :D

[noeta-112]

Brent,

I thought I would try to cheap it out ... so headed to e-bay and found a harken medium car with single blocks wth/beckets attached. $120 ...(why won't those guys stop bidding???) Really thought I had it made. Now all I have to do is find the rest of the gear. Intend to buy low sliding slot track - abt $46 / 2 schaefer dbl cheek blocks - abt $27 ea. / the swivel base abt - $80 / picked up a couple of camcleats- harken there goes another $30 odd bucks.. Oh yeah and then the blocks to make it all work .... and the woodwork to mount the track on..... Gad !!! I'm not gonna add it up.... Good luck, Brent.

Where on the Cape?

[French]

Sorry mine came with the boat, not a clue on cost.

[noeta-112]

Brent,

For what it will cost me ... you can probably buy the Harken small boat traveller set-up less the track.

You then are left with the swivel, track and woodwork and whatever mainsheet control blocks you happen to need.

I think this is correct.

[Brent]

noeta,

I live in Falmouth.

[Bill]

Order the Harken small boat traveler system from Defender or West and I'll sell you the track for half price + shipping.:cool:

[noeta-112]

Bill,

Thanks for the inspiration... here are a couple of pics of my sys based on yours.

[noeta-112]

Traveller base is white oak. Cheekblock bases are teak & mahogany while swivelbase is ext-ply with a round mahogany block for swivel to mount on. I'm using a Harken ratch-a-matic (57mm block on the swivelbase.

[Bill]

Very nice! Enjoy the control.

[commanderpete]

I've been collecting parts for a Harken traveler. Going to look just like Bill's (and Noeta's) except I'm going to have a windward sheeting car.

Question about the mainsheet tackle. Bill could you get a picture of what you have at the top connected to the boom? Double block with becket?

Going to run the mainsheet down to a swivel base/cam the same way. I'm using one now for the mainsheet, just have to move it to a platform.

Does this mean I won't be able to stand the tiller up anymore? Do you gouge up the tiller?

Windward sheeting traveler setup

[Jim Rester]

The configuration here is excellent but I would add one thing.

On a previous boat, my traveler sheet was one continuous loop. So no matter where I was in the cockpit I could cast off one side and sheet in the other. Mine was a Schaeffer with swivieling cam cleats so that when you pulled on the sheet the cleat turned toward the sheet which meant you could cast off or engage the cam cleat from any angle. Very Very efficient.

Good Luck

Jim

[Bill]

Pete,

Here's the one photo I have of the attachment to the boom. One note on the location of the mainsheet cam swivel base -- It should probably be lower (lines can tagle with the blocks). I'm thinking of reversing the bracket holding the base to move it away.

[Tony G]

Bill,

Thank you for bringing up that point. From looking at the pictures it appears that you'll drop the swivel cam assby about 1 1/2 inches by flipping your mount. Do you think that will be enough to correct the-eh hem-'issue'? What exactly happens that you would like make the change to your system?

CPete brings up another issue I never thought about. If we spend any amout of time lounging in the cockpit, having the tiller up and out of the way is almost a must. That is, unless you have a gargantuan cockpit like a Commander where the issue really is marring and gouging the tiller. Could Pete just move the swivel cam assby. off center a couple of inches to give the tiller handle clearance until he got the protective tiller cover on it(uh-huh)? It shouldn't affect performance. It would be like having a wider cockpit-just on one tack. :p

Jim brings up another good point from the standpoint of convenience. I know the cam cleats on the end of Harken's Small Boat Traveler System swivel to some degree. Having acutually used this system, do you think it has the neccesary allowance for a continuous loop? Can that area handle another line lying around?

[Bill]

"What exactly happens that you would like make the change to your system?" Line can get tangled in the swivel base when tacking . .

No problem with the tiller. Turn it a couple of millimeters and it slides right past the bracket. I keep the tiller raised and tied to the main sheet line going between the car and the boom when the boat is docked. Here's the photo . . .

[Bill]

Photo attached above :D

[commanderpete]

Nice.

There's some examples of mainsheet tackle arrangements on the Harken website. Check out Mainsheet "System 1" and "System 2".

http://www.harken.com/rigtips/rigsyst.php

I think Bill's arrangement looks the cleanest--seems to be a double swivel block at the traveler and a double swivel block with becket at the boom.

I'll go with Garhauer blocks. The "25" series is big enough, but the "30" series looks meaner.

http://garhauermarine.com/catalog.cfm

Now, on to the traveler track. Installing the track should be easier on a Commander than on an Ariel. You don't even need a riser. You could just bend the track to fit the curve of the deck (or have the factory bend it). However, there may be higher loads with a bent track.

Interesting what Harken says in connection with mainsheet System 2 above:

"System 2: Placing the mainsheet off the traveler car allows mainsail adjustment without dragging the car to windward. Although it tends to tighten the leech, this can be overcome by curving the track ends up."

This is from another section of the website on curved traveler tracks:

"2. Vertical Bend: Ends Up
Some racing boats use a vertical bend with the ends up to relieve leech tensioning which occurs when the traveler car is moved off of the centerline, a phenomenon that is exacerbated when part of the mainsheet tackle is placed off of the traveler car. These bends are also frequently used for staysails. The track is bent to a radius equal to the LP of the sail plus the distance from the clew to the track. The track is then mounted on risers and angled forward to face the clew of the sail."


I'll probably build a riser to at least keep the track level, or maybe slightly curved upwards.

Check out this photo of Robert Lemaster's Commander 105

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1686

[Bill]

Pete, "seems to be a double swivel block at the traveler and a double swivel block with becket at the boom." That was how it began (with Garhauer 30's), but we later removed the swivels to keep the line from twisting.

[Dan Maliszewski]

Greetings from NJ, and Happy New Year to all Captains and crews.

Am upgrading Adele M's traveler and other gear, and will probably go with a similar setup to Bill's. My present I beam track is on risers, angled slightly up at the ends, and I will probably fit a new sliding bolt track into it's place. Am I correct in thinking Bill's sheet has a greater ratio than Noeta, who appears to have a 4:1 with that single/becket car block and double boom block? Has anyone used a less than 4:1 on the mainsheet for say, quick retrieval on mark rounding? Two speed 2/4:1 for instance? Also, how exactly does that ratchet block work out on Noeta? Does it just help in "handlining" the mainsheet?

I will be replacing the ancient and lumpy bronze T track on my toerail, and am looking for the ideal placement for a new jibsheet track and pincar. I use hank on sails, so I don't need something fancy, but pointing up needs improvement. Any photos of good systems? I will do a search here, but new photos are welcome!

Also, the teak deck may be a memory on Adele M - I can't take the seam leaks anymore! Am looking at a coating right over the teak-will keep y'all informed.

More to come.....

[Bill]

"Has anyone used a less than 4:1 on the mainsheet . . ?"

The power needed to sheet in the main in a blow is such that we used a 6 to 1 purchase for awhile, but there was just too much line in the cockpit :eek:

[Dan Maliszewski]

Bill,
With your swivel bracket mainsheet system, when you are on a run with the boom full out, doesn't the bracket swivel around to point toward the opposite side, away from the boom? And does this cause any difficulty uncleating the sheet, or retrieving the line when changing course?

Also, during an accidental jibe, would the single line leg be subject to the same tension stress as the multi line leg? And I'm thinking the single block on the swivel base would be locked to not swivel by itself--- These may be silly questions, but this seems like such a nice system and I may want to convert to it this spring.

[Bill]

Dan, interesting question, but I don't pay attention to the swivel - it just follows me around and points to whatever side on which I'm sitting . . . :) Probably because most of the line arrives at the boom from the car, not the block on the swivel base.

The enineering of the sheet control is basically Harken, so I'm assuming the loads are ok. It's the line strength, I believe, that counts. Half inch is pretty strong. An unintentional jibe will likely brake the boom before the line fails.

And yes, I removed the swivel action form the blocks on the boom and car, but that was because they tended to twist the lines so that after awhile we had a figure "8" between the two blocks. :mad:

Take a look at the mainsheet control drawings in the Harkin catalog. I think they are very good. Also, I recommend at least 4-to-1 control on the traveler car. The loads get really high going to weather.

[John]

After reading all the info on the site, and with some discussion with my rigger, I chose Schaefer to supply my traveler. They (Schaefer Customer Support) told me that the small 4 wheel car was sufficient for my boat. I have not had had a problem moving the car, even though I chose manual stops over shorter traveler with car blocks. Schaefer, for a small fee, radiused the traveler to a template I made of the curve on the deck in front of the lazerette. Except that I was slightly off, so I had to gradually pull in the traveler a bit, it was an easy job to mount the rail. The four wheel car handles that radius as though it were not there. A 6 wheel car might hang but I can't be certain.

Just cause, I chose to use double fiddles with the bottom one holding a jam cleat and I have been very happy with the set up. I find it easier to pull the sheet into the cleat that way, and it is very easy to free it as well. That does mean that the car will move as you pull the sheet so sometimes you have to adjust your lead.

[Bill]

"That does mean that the car will move as you pull the sheet so sometimes you have to adjust your lead." With a line controlled car, you eliminate that problem. It also makes traveler adjustments possible under load. BTW - the Harken traveler cars use replaceable (plastic) ball bearings rather than wheels. Very slick.

[commanderpete]

The new traveller is starting to come together. I made a riser by cutting a curve in a teak board that was 2" by 2" by 4 feet long. Could have actually used a piece a bit thicker.

Still need to round over the edges and sand it before varnishing.

Decided to just make the top flat instead of curved upwards. It was easier. I also thought it would look odd to have a smile shaped traveller with the ends sticking up in the air.

[commanderpete]

I bought most of the traveller parts on ebay. The windward sheeting car is supposed to allow you to haul on one side withou having to release the other, but I've never sailed on a boat that had one.

Ran some thin line through it temporarily to play around with.

We'll have to see how it works

[Robert Lemasters]

Commanderpete, looks like I fabricated my mainsheet traveler system just like yours. I used the Harken small boat traveler kit from West marine they had a sale on one. Not hard to do all though I had to purchase the marine grade stainless steel hardware from a fasner supply business here, needed longer fasners then West Marine had in stock.

[commanderpete]

I'm using yours as a model there Robert.

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1686

Back down to the boat, underneath the blue tent

[commanderpete]

Got the old hardware off. I think only the fitting on the right is original.

[commanderpete]

Only complication seems to be working from below. Strange section of deck there with heavy tabbing. The nuts for that original fitting were buried underneath the tabbing. I drilled out the screws from the top and popped it off.

Just doesnt seem to be alot of room below to fit a backing plate.

I'll figure something out. I can't move the traveller track too close to the hatch because the traveller car is so big.

A screw through the center of the deck area ends up here below (very close to the wall, underneath the rusty ring)

[c_amos]

I have the traveler track, and a Schaffer car. I was going to mount as others have across the original mounts just forward of the lazy-rat hatch.



One important difference is that I do not plan to use the control lines and blocks at the ends, but rather adjust the car with a set of pins to limit it's travel. I have seen a couple examples like this in the traveler thread.



Saturday, before the race we had a couple come and speak at the Yacht club, and the gal had worked at 'J' world for a couple summers as an instructor.



Surprisingly, in talking to her after the talk she said that the gains offered by a traveler for me as a cruiser and some times racer were probably not worth the effort! This from a died in the wool racer! She went on to say that they kept them centered on the 'J' boats for all but the advanced courses anyway.



I am very interested in learning what real gains have been had by those who have switched from the original block set up to the traveler.

[ebb]

:( It's obvious that most sailors have travelors because the boats next to them in the marina have travelors. It's become tradition. Nobody questions tradition because that would be disrespectful to authority figures and yor daddy and yor mommy. If you don't have a travelor on your boat you are either stupid, unchristian, or a weirdo.

On the black blank page that greets you when you get the computer going, I have that well known old photo of Carl and Everet sizzling along in an Ensign, I think. That mainsail is trimmed tight in over the quarter. No travelor. Three blocks only.

Maybe it would be the ultimate in doing it the old way....and maybe it is obvious to a racer that there is no other way....but WHAT GOOD IS A MAINSHEET TRAVELOR?

[commanderpete]

A traveler controls the angle of the mainsail to the wind. In light air you can keep good sail shape while drawing the boom higher. In heavier winds you can drop the traveler to keep good shape with less heeling.

There are more important things you can do to make the boat go faster. Smooth bottom, decent sails. Having the right sails up, good sail trim, steer a straight course with minimal rudder action, etc.

After that you might want to tweak the sail some more with a traveler.

[ebb]

Hello C'pete,
Thanks.
OK, Understand that all you have with the 3 block sheet system is looser and tighter. Looser the boom is probably out further. Tighter the boom. it's in over the cockpit.

Function of travelor is to move the boom, when it's cinched tight, in or out.
That begs the question:
Doesn't the Rigid Vang provide that very same service? Well, it's a bendy boom perhaps, but I think the vang is giving you the same control over the boom as the travelor. How do you see it?

If the vang is holding the boom down (for sail shape, I presume) then easing the sheet will spill the same wind. I don't see the difference. You get the same boom control if you had a
Travelor without the rigid vang OR
Blocks with the rigid vang.
?


So, CAN IT BE ARGUED that the Rigid Vang with the original Three Block Main Sheet will work as well as the Travelor? Racers obviously need the redundancy of vang and travelor to tweak more.



MID BOOM SHEETING
If you have a rigid vang installed, it looks to me that midboom sheeting would be something to consider. You'ld end up with four points of atachment spread out over 12' of boom, quite enough redundancy to keep the spar from bending. And lots of control. FEED BACK ?

[commanderpete]

I don't know ebb. On the boat I race on I'll use the vang mostly to keep the boom from "skying" or flopping around while running downwind.

We blew out the genoa racing last week, which was fun, since it wasn't my sail.

I don't understand half of what I read about sail trim, and forget most of what I do understand. Diagrams are more helpful

[ElBeethoven]

Also being a visual learner, I can appreciate Pete's comments. If anyone has a copy of the old warhorse "Sail Power" by Wallace Ross, there is a lot of good info on vang and traveller sheeting and sail twist with lots of pictures and diagrams to boot.

Some people say that the book is out of date with regards to its THEORY (slot effect, etc.), but regardless, the PHYSICS of sail trim are as eternal as the particles that create them. So this book still has much to offer and always will, IMHO.

Check it out.

:)

[Bill]

Lets look at what Chapman has to say on the subject of mainsheet travelers.

"Depending on many variables, the traveler car is either pulled up to the windward side or let down to the leeward. Once it is fixed in place, frequent small adjustments are made to the mainsheet to account for changes in apparent wind speed and angle. These adjustments both position the boom laterally and release or apply tension to the leech, depending on the traveler car’s position. In some racing boats, the traveler tackle becomes the principal control for the main while sailing close to the wind. (P.223)
= =
The traveler, of course, provides a means of balancing the mainsheet’s vertical and horizontal pull on the boom. As the mainsheet is eased, and the boom moves to leeward, the angle of pull on the boom becomes more horizontal, removing tension from the leech. When the traveler car is eased to leeward, the pull of the mainsheet becomes more vertical, increasing leech tension.

The traveler car can also be pulled to windward in light air so that the mainsheet tension is more horizontal but the angel of the boom is still very close to, or right over, the centerline of the boat. This allows sufficient twist, but a smaller angle of incidence to the flow of air at the luff. A rule of thumb is to keep the batten second from the top parallel to the boom . ." (P.225)

More good stuff in Chapman’s chapter on Seamanship Under Sail. It is a worthwhile read. (P211- 236 in the 62nd Edition) [It's on the 4th of July sale at the local West Marine]

[commanderpete]

Traveler is working out nice. The windward sheeting feature helps if you're the lazy and forgetful type. You only have to pull one string instead of two when you adjust it.

I happened to have some old tackle sitting around that I've been using for the mainsheet. I'll trim the traveler control line when I decide on a good length.

[jshisha]

I am installing a traveler on Commamder 131. I have what appears to be 2 options. The first is to mount the traveler track on a block of wood. The second is to get a curved traveler track and install dircetly onto the deck. I believe that the latter option will be simpler and will avoid the need to maintain the wood block. My concern is if the travler track is not raised up on the block of wood, do I run the risk that the main sheets going from the track to the end of the boom will chaffe agaisnt the wooden combing on the sides of the cockpit.

Has anyone mounted the traveler track directly onto the deck without a wood block? Any suggestions

Thanks


Jake

[Bill]

Jake, please run a search on "traveler." You'll find much discussion and photos of traveler setups.

Most, I believe, go with the level track on a wooden base for optimum sail control. Maintenance is not a big deal.

[mbd]

Jake, my traveler is mounted without a wood block. It was a real pain to install when I got to the ends because of the camber of deck in the back of the cockpit. It also can get a little "sticky" when I want to move it to the ends.

Besides, that little piece of brightwork in the after cockpit really warms things up...

FWIW, I will eventually mount mine on a piece of wood.

[Hull376]

Jake,

I pondered the same thing and went with the block. More choices for the hardware (track) if you go "flat". Here's the Garhauer track I put on-- sturdy and not very pricey compared to the competition. Maintenance? Practically none, except for a brush with varnish once a year (5 minutes?)

[ebb]

That line will google up the words, but sadly no diagrams, on what some folks consider is a cruising alternative to deck travelers used for racing.

C'pete posted marvelous diagrams that show just what is gained by day sailors with travelers.

Litlgull has to have an alternative since a traveler can no longer be mounted in the back of the cockpit.
But others evidently consider rigging non-traveler systems for a number of reasons.

Reference to the title above:
quote: >"We've been unhappy with the Flicka's top stern rail-mounted traveler for some time, esp. with respect to its inability to flatten the sail or hold it down for upwind sailing.
>A boatbuilder friend suggested we try two mainsheets instead. So we attached two 4:1 block and pulley systems to the boom bail, and ran the other ends to bow shackles at each of the stern chainplates.
>The difference in boat performance was significant. We can position the boom anywhere, and, at least when the boom is more or less over the boat, we can pull down on it. This pull not only flattens the main, but keeps it from dumping in lumpy water. Yes, it means fiddling with two sets of lines when tackling, but the improvement in performance is worth it.
>The use of the mainsheets is a quick, easy, inexpensive alternative to a track-based traveler, and is out of the way, as well. A side benefit is that these sheets also serve as preventers.
>In addition to the above, we use a preventer, mounted mid-boom and to a stanchion base, as a way to pull the boom when off the wind, again to good effect. Mike s/v Eventide"

This quote probably originated from the Flicka 20 owners & admirers site.

[Looking at Bill's opening photo beginning this thread, it's easy to imagine the single blue lines in blocks,
seeing them doubled into two sets and terminating port & starboard to some point on the aft deck at opposite rails.
Traveler system would be disappeared. Sheets and traveler lines would not necessarily be dumped on the tiller!]


On an Ariel/Commander the 'stern chainplates' could be located anywhere just aft of the cockpit coaming using 1/2" U-bolt 'chainplates'.
The two sheet ends could be led directly to the primary winches on the coaming.
Or the tackle inverted and the sheets led forward along the boom....and back to the cockpit on top of the cabin.
I'm not sure this is a viable plan. Maybe the port & starboard sheets can be led aft from the mast - but more to the sides of the cabin to the coaming winches? And each line led from the mast foot to the correct windward sheet winch.

Mike's Flicka 20 double sheet rig seems to be an authentic alternative, and worthy of consideration.
With primary winches readily available for power, maybe the 4:1's could be downsized for gun-tackles
or TWO single to double block tackles. Less 3/8" sheet tangling in the cockpit.
Looks like a low-maintenance system to me.....without the traveler.....wudu aye no

Any interest in this?

[Ariel 109]

Hey Ebb check out this thread. It has some diagrams and debate on twin sheeting the main sail.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/replace-traveller-track-what-18158.html

[mbd]

From the forum in Ben's post:



What's The Traveller Do?
A traveler may have 2 functions: It allows the boom to be brought up to centre when sailing close to the wind. And it can create some downward pressure when you want to flatten the main.

The twin sheets can also provide these functions: Use the windward sheet to bring the boom back to centre. And, use the leeward sheet to control downward pressure.

The leeward sheet can also act as a preventer for accidental gybes.

Playing the sheets would be a little more complicated. Which would you adjust to maintain helm balance? Adjusting 1 may require adjusting both. Maybe on a cruiser, it would not be so critical.

For some reason, twin sheets have not gained a lot of popularity.


Of course, any good thread requires pics. Here are the two Bingham-style drawings towards the end of the thread (minus the cat and mouse).

From user alan white on boatdesign.net:
8704


From user MMNet SEA on boatdesign.net:
8705


Although it looks like he may place his on the aft end of his cabin top, the original Ariel setup has them at the aft end of the cockpit. We've talked about this somewhere before, maybe in the context of using the boom vang as a preventer? But you could add 2 U-Bolts somewhere up on both rails (or use the stanchion bases if you have them), then use that attachment point to rig the second the mainsheet as a preventer when cruising in the tradewinds... :cool:


Last post of the thread - probably a cruiser: :)



If you put in that middle U-bolt I see in the pix, you could just use a single main sheet on lazy days. I bet after a bit you'd find that 99% of your days are lazy days.

[ebb]

Fantastic amazing! Great to read an actual discussion with pictures on the subject. Thanks Ben. And Mike, thanks for your insight. I will go back, probably download, for study. But NOW I'm convinced and able to SEE how it can be done on litlgull. The seeing is to recognize that the system is open and can be tailored to the boat. To any boat.

Interesting point made that one of the twin sheets could be unhooked for 'lazy sailing'
- but also easy to hook up a single 4:1 to a center 'chainplate' eye. Versatility with the boom-bail. (See that VendeeVolvo racer had soft grommets.) It also frees the boom to be easily rigged or de-rigged for other uses.


To settle any conjectures and assumptions in discussion, it may be also be easy to set up both systems on a single boat and on the same day actually compare the existing traveler with a double 'A' system - Compare the two sheeting systems at the same time! Are they equal or is one better.
Notes on that exercise might free some inflexible opinions! It's intriguing that the original* - if that is indeed the original '60's' system as supplied by Alberg/Pearson - can be upgraded so logically so many decades later.
Wonder if the racing crowd can see it that way? Or One at the head of the racing crowd, I can think of.

"For some reason, twin sheets have not gained a lot of popularity."
Wouldn't you agree twin block & tackles are much more pleasing to the eye
compared to the button-down corporate look of over enginneered and expensive slide travelers?
Travelers are OK in the gear-envy sphere of time keepers and buoy bashing.
Just kidding.......
But just as mysterious to me is that the traveler system became so universally accepted.
Once the system was leading edge. But now we can spend our $$$ on fancy blocks and line.


litlgull will have twin sheets (and Tufnol blocks.) No traveler on a boom gallows or anything like that!


OK, fellow travelers, weigh in on this!:p
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
* from the Manual's Ariel List of Equipment circa 2/1/1962. 'Main sheet consisting of 60' of 3/8" dacron rope and 1 double sheeve block.'
Assume the double block is bailed on the boom. No listing of two single blocks mounted (if I remember, about 3' apart) to the top of the beam at the aft end of the cockpit... as a tackle. Because of the huge rear hatch there was no place to mount the traveler's dangerous predessor: the Horse!

[Ariel 109]

Here's another discussion about twin mainsheets vs traveler.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/sailboat-design-construction/38315-traveler-vs-twin-mainsheets.html

I happen to really like the new traveler on my Ariel that I was lucky to buy from Chance. Trimming away the weather helm with small adjustments to the position of her traveler makes the Ariel sail more controlled and faster.

[ebb]

Thanks Ben!


Can understand the traveler system is more trim and concise
When sailing an A/C you have the sheets and car ajustment line on the tiller and on your feet. You get used to it.

Having the traveler on the bridge deck in the companionway as suggested in the blue-line above, or anywhere else in the cockpit, is plain rediculous. Actually reckless, especially with kids & guests aboard.
That's the way I feel. I think it is a concession to fashion like high-heels and pointy toes.
Having the traveler in the back of the cockpit, it still is a dangerous machine.
And it's probably a PITA if you need parts for it.

By contrast, having twin 5-part tackles (per our diagrams above) to deal with when tacking seems like a load of trouble with TEN lines to take care of. Slacking one main sheet, taking up on the other in 20knots, while steering and tending the jibsheet seems like herding snakes.
SO, it mainly is ALL that line that has to be controlled.....has a lot going against it.*

Can't see 100s of feet of bitter end loose and uncontrolled off the winches at the coamings. Mountains of braid. Maybe can see the two tackle lines coming aft from the mast as possibly a way to have some control over the miles of rope. (because it comes from one direction and would be furthest away from the tiller) What do we do...Have a green line and a red line to be able to sort the spaghetti?

Sure would be great to hear how twin sheets is managed from someone who's spent a little time sailing with the rig.

There is a Bingham drawing of a very tidy double sheet arrangement on page 223 of the 2nd edition of Spurr's Boatbook.
But there is no description how it works in practice, no tips on alternative rigging of the sheet, no photos - which makes me think the author has never used it.

There may a plus in multi-part tackles, which is that a honking winch may not be necessary to tweek the sheet beause the many parts of the tackle ease the work.
....that is an assumption on my part.
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*OK Let's take the 5-part tackle (altho three or four part seems more reasonable) and ballpark the probable length of line needed with the boom out to the shrouds. Boom approx 12'. Circumference of 12' circle is 113.4'. Divide by 4 = 28'. But the lines will more than likely be straight from boom end to the stern, say 25'. Five parts of line is 125' with the boom out. 250' with both tackles out, as they will be. Both sheets must be handled at the same time, one tackle under tension, the other limp, hauling in and letting them out - with the correct side being winched & cinched....at the correct moment. Add halyards, reefing lines, and blood. Marinara!

Can see a couple large OPEN bags hanging on the seat fronts for the tackle ends.

[jshisha]

The other advantage is that the traveler, can be quickly and easily dumped in case things get hairy. I installed a traveler on the stern and am very happy with it

[ebb]

Sounds really interesting.
How about some photos?
How do you adjust the car - lead the blocks?

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google Twin Mainsheet System
a photo may show up of a 1970 Cal 29 'Seafever' with a blue canvas dodger. It is in Images.
It's on a SailNet Forum Thread 'Boomvang or mainsheet traveler?' pg4, post #35
Sure is a handsome boat!

It shows the slanted up angle the boom will be on litlgull.
It shows a full time stand-up cockpit. The twin tackles make a very recognizable 'A' shape.
While the Cal 29 cockpit goes to the transom, it easy to imagine the rear deck of an Ariel at about the location of the end plates in the picture.

What's not to like?

[jshisha]

This is a photo of the traveler car

[Rob Rotondo]

Hi,
This is exactly what I would like to do with my traveler. Can you give me a list of the parts that you used to make the system? I currently have what I believe is the original traveler car.
Thanks,
Rob Rotondo

[jshisha]

Rob,
I got the Garhauer traveler, I have had not trouble with it. I believe the entire setup is $395

https://www.garhauermarine.com/travelers/travelers/traveler-mt-1.html

I think that is the on in the photo of my boat Francine.

[Rob Rotondo]

Thanks for the reply. I just went to the Garhauer site and was pleasantly surprised that you can call them and talk about customizing the traveler system. I have a 1965 Commander "Aurora" which has the same curvature where the traveler system sits and was concerned about bending the track. Great information. Thanks again. I have had it with yanking on the car under load and lifting and resetting the manual stops LOL