weather helm

[dubois]

does anyone know how to reduse weather helm? even in mild conditions it wants to round up.

[tcoolidge]

First guess would be the sails are trimmed too tight, followed by the rigging needs tuning. The boat will want to round up a little bit on just about any point of sail by design so there is almost always a bit of weather helm but if your sails and rigging are right it doesn't take much more than a couple of fingers pressure to hold a course. If your sails and rigging are really right you can get the boat to steer itself.
There is probably a wealth of info about this somewhere on this site. Try doing searches on the topic.

Happy sailing
Tom

[Theis]

I recognize the problem. Often the weather helm is sufficient enough that the autohelm can't handle it. The answer: Ease off on the main - even if it winds up luffing (fisherman's reef).

I don't know of any other way. I have tried shifting the slope of the mast forward - that does nothing/little. I have run out of ideas.

[george copeland]

Houdini is tuned to a very light touch. Tiller is off the center line about 5 degrees leeward in anything below about 12 knot winds. You can hold course with three fingers on the tiller and feel the water cavitating over the rudder surfaces. If you go below, the shrouds hum like an acoustic guitar. Above that, she wants to round up a bit more aggressively--I just supposed that was on of Alberg's intentionally designed-in safety features, in case you fell off or were involved with a woman indefinitely, you know--something to make the sails flap and bring you back to what really mattered.

[Theis]

That reminds me of one of my favorite stories from a few years back. There was a little 4 inch article on the sports page of the Chicago Tribune that read something like this:

The yacht Blue Daze was struck and sunk by the Arco Oil tanker something or other five miles off Michigan City Harbor yesterday. Joe Doakes and an unidentified woman were both rescued. Doakes explained that they were on automatic pilot and below decks at the time of the collision. Doake's wife, when contacted, explained that her husband was out of town on business.

The moral of the story is that Carl Alberg's design with the weather helm protects you from all sorts of dangers.

[george copeland]

Yes, good story. Nothing like the occasional oil tanker to knock your tiller off.

[commanderpete]

I can't tell if your weather helm is normal or excessive.

As the wind picks up, reducing weather helm involves depowering the main and not heeling the boat too much.

In the "mild conditions" you've described, the boat might just want a bigger headsail. If your mainsail is baggy, flatten it out.

They usually say to rake the mast forward to reduce weather helm. The Manual also says that a forward rake might help. I don't know.

If your mast does have a rake to it, take it out, its not helping.

[Theis]

Commander Pete:

The picture under your title is small, and my eyes are not as good as they used to be. Is that you at the helm with the big eye, or one of those Amazons that you use for decoration? I must have spent five minutes concentrating on the meaning of all that activity. Why watch TV when you can have a better, more informative time on this website

[commanderpete]

Personally, I wouldnt accept any advice from a guy with a picture like that under his name.

Look at the sloppy reef on this boat. To control the genoa I use an Amazon rope clutch.

[george copeland]

Look here. We have a few Amazons in our marina, and I can say without fear of contradiction that they can clutch a rope. Just not sure I would want them clutching mine. However, your criticism of the reef-job seems misplaced. Yes, it is sloppy, but its real fault lay in the shadow cast over the stern of that first mate. Hope this isn't somebody's little sister. If it's somebody's wife--well, good on you, sir, and mind your eye: have a battery strong enough to work that autohelm and hold to an unobstructed course.

[marymandara]

Another fine reason for a simple sheet-to-tiller setup...no reliance on battery storage capacity!:D

[drm901]

I find is surprising you have a significant weather helm. My boat (1966 Arial #392) is exceptionally balanced until the winds really pick up (over 15 at least). That is what I love about it! You aren't fighting with it, it's with you. Now that is with both head and main sail - I can hardly sail it with only main.

My main is a newer one - with full battens, and probably a little oversize - since it hits the back stay a little.

My autohelm (4000) does well in most conditions - except sloppy waves, >15-20 mph winds.

I would check the tuning on your standing rigging. Certainly based on my experience, I don't think this is a design feature. (I also have a Venture 21' - now that has that design - you can't stop it from rounding up!)

[tha3rdman]

Per Bill's Request I'll repost this here instead of burying it in my gallary thread:

I have fought with my weather helm for a while now, and have sorted out a few of the issues, But i have one that I'm wondering if has any bearing.

I had assumed for a while that the genoa that came with 97 had been a 150, but recently i found the LP measurement on the luff written as 15.97 and well that makes it a 168 the clew comes back to just short of the coming.

In my ignorance it would seem that something that big on the head would pull the boat down into the wind, or is it because there is so much of the head sail behind the mast?

[Mike Goodwin]

With so much sail behind the mast you tend to over trim the main to keep it from back winding .An overtrimed main will give weather helm every time . We have found it better to ease the main car to leeward sheet in hard and sail with a bubble and drive off the genny . The original main sheet setup wont allow this .

[bill@ariel231]

I concur, that's why A-231 has a traveler system. One other point often overlooked is the condition of your sails. As the main streaches with time in service, the draft moves aft (look for a cupped trailing edge). once this happens the center of effort has moved aft and contributes to excessive weather helm.

cheers,
bill@ariel231

[tha3rdman]

Try this again, after some confusion, Here is #97's 1989 sails with wind in them. Being as I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for as to if, it is her weather helm issue. Your opinons are as always appriciated.

[tha3rdman]

Here is the leeward side of the same sail, same tack, same wind.

[bill@ariel231]

take this with a grain of salt since I'm not a sail maker...

It looks like there is some stretch in the sails in the photo you posted. It's not the only cause of weather helm but it can be a contributor. By the way, a bit of weather helm is desirable (safer to round up in a puff than to fall off). As a rule of thumb, Alyce and I either drop the traveler/main sheet on a puff and drive off the jib or if the wind is steady and over 15kts we'll reef the main. Generally, we don't see more than 15-20 pounds of effort at the end of the tiller.

I've marked the areas that may have stretched on your main. nothing terminal for cruising, you may want someone from a sail loft to take a look this winter.

The dashed red line shows a break that may indicate the sail has lost some shape (this may not occur at all wind speeds)

[bill@ariel231]

The break may be more noticeable from the leeward side.. and you'll need to take a close look under way. I'm using the shadows from the seams to mark two possible shapes... if the shape of the main matches the red curve, the sail has stretched, the trailing edge has cupped and the center of effort has moved aft. If the shape matches the green/blue line, the sail still has most of its life ahead of it...

of course, if you aren't racing for glory&beer every tuesday & wednesday night, the issue is mostly academic. :)

cheers,
bill

[Theis]

Have you tried putting pennants (telltales) on your sail or draftlines (I think they are called). Tell tales you can get at west for afew bucks and you spot them across the sail at a couple different levels on each side. They can tell you where your sail is luffing or too full. The draft strips across a couple levels of the sail can best evidence where the sail has a crazy shape. I think the tape is available at West

[tha3rdman]

Got the tell's seen the options for draft stripes in new sail quotes, the pictures taken are with the tells in the straight back position (ie good sail trim)

Thanks to bil for pointing out how a sail shouldn't look, I assumed that the break was caused by the battens.

[bill@ariel231]

one thing you may want to check is that the battens aren't in backwards. the thin end goes forward. with the batten in backwards, I've seen the break come early on an otherwise good sail.

this sort of problem will cost speed (10th of a knot) but to small an effect to drive weather helm

[tha3rdman]

The battens aren't the tapered style, they we're on the boat when i bought it, I belive they are 1.25 but truthfully i havent measured them.