stripping the bottom

[ebb]

Maybe around here it's getting too late in the season to think about a new bottom. Yet at the yard this weekend I saw a skipper. mate. and incredible energetic kid go thru absolute tedious hell getting multilayers of bottom paint off - they never succeeded.

I went over just when they were starting and said I'd used PeelAway too. But he didn't ask me about it, so I figured he knew what he was doing - he didn't.

>With a big wall-paper brush he put it on way too thin - wrong.
>bought it in one gal containers from WM = wrong.
>finished Sat eve (sort of, they ran out of paste & the paper cover) and came back Sun mid morning and began pulling the paper off - wrong.
>did not allow extra time for low temperature - wrong.
> worked without proper gloves and clothes - wrong.

I believe PeelAway to be the best method to remove bottom, which just should never be sanded off. It worked for me, but it was messy, it didn't peel off all in one thing like the literature. But it all came off in a marvelously awfull sodden pile of toxic waste - and what color remained on the gelcoat scrubbed off very easy. Ended up with a white bottom. And did not appear to have attacked the old polyester gelcoat in the slightest.

LAY it on 1/4" thick. You won't be able to, but try. Cover it entirely, get extra paper. Pick warm days and nights. Leave it on as long as you can, don't let it dry! Wear gloves and a tyvec suit with a hood (5 bucks!) if you work messy. 338 took 8 gals.

Check this out: I mean he was carrying around these dainty white gallon buckets when he was painting it on.

West Marine one gallon Peel Away...................$64.99
Extension for five one gallons........................$324.95
West Marine five gallon................................$249.99

Local paint store (special order)....................$107.44

Obscene rhymes with what?:o


[This stuff was invented to remove multiple layers of lead paint from 100 year old Victorians. WM says their specially priced PA remover is "specially formulated" for copper paint. The paint store stuff worked fine for 338.]

[Tony G]

Ebb
Was that 107 and change for ALL eight gallons...and the paper?

Bottom paint (removal) is just around the corner because its now cool enough to hold a 7 1/2" angle grinder all day and not overheat yet not too cold to freeze the beer. If indeed this peel away is a better chicken then maybe I oughta give it a try when it's warmer and use this cold weather for the grinding that has no alternative! Just remember Ebb, I'm behind you all the way:D Tony G

[ebb]

Hey Tonio, 5 gal pails. Mean you can't find use for a couple gallons extra? Bilge maybe? Rudder? A door at home? Gotta call a pro store, not a chain, some small business what gives a damn. They have to look it up, unless you live where they're restoring old houses. Who was it here (Dave?... can't find where we briefly talked about it) said he used freezer paper or wax paper? good for spots. I tried paper/plastic painter covers. The system stuff PA has works best to keep it moist. Nowadays you order extra. Should have some regular plastic for the ground, too. Because it's wet it's heavy, need real strong contractor sacks to haul it away. But then, maybe you can spread it out to dry in the sun??

The thing is you don't let it dry on the boat. Depending how long you let it work and how hot or windy you'll probably use the hose and that will really make you unhappy. If I remember: did it in sections, lift the cover off, scrape down the side to the keel, slide the goop away. or catch the scrapings in a garbage can lid, hose and stiff brush, or just keep it misted til you have the whole side scraped ready to 'pressure wash.'

Besides, if you have extra, there's always those damn spots that didn't come off the first time. Be lavish!:D


www.peelaway.com
is the company's web site. They have many PeelAways I see for the first time, including WM's special formulation. I'm sure I used PeelAway 1 - because I assumed there was just the one product. Maybe you can talk with a rep? Somehow it just got complicated. Maybe this is why it doesn't quite work as neat as it does on lead paint, this Number One. Maybe you can get somebody to say, oh, it'll work, just not as well as our 300% percent more expensive product we have developed for the marine market.

[marymandara]

Personally, I'm all for the grinder...with full skin (suit, gloves) and respiratory protection...and, of course, some kind of containment/disposal (Vizquene, shopvac). If a person is going to take it off abrasively, I highly recommend (if an adequate air source is available) the venerable 7" vertical polisher for the rough work and a 5 or 6" DA sander to finish off. Very fast, very clean, very smooth. We're using 40-grit here, mind you. The vertical polisher was/is long a mainstay in fiberglass and aircraft work. VERY low RPM (under 3000), very controllable and very effective. If you simply have to buy one new, Ingersol-Rand still make one and you can get it for a couple hundred bucks. I've managed to score a couple off of E-Bay for friends at less than 65.00 each, but it took a while until they came along in the listings as people who know what they have do not part with these. If nothing else, Harbor Freight is now selling a Hong's-of Taiwan knockoff for less than 40 dollars...I'm just not big on Taiwan/China/India anythings. You get what you pay for, after all.

The combination of the two above mentioned tools will easily allow a nice smooth bottom with no half-moons to fair in. Easy. Sweet!

If you are really into chemicals and do not like to grind, chemical strippers sound like a real good option. I've never used the peel-away product, mainly because of the cost, but again our man Ebb has come through for us with an answer to that problem. I will say, though, that I have seen bottoms where that stuff did not do the trick no matter how much was applied...took off a lot, but still needed sanding. God knows what kind of paint was on the two boats I am thinking of in particular, but it was tenacious.

Good old fashioned methylene-chloride based "aircraft stripper" works well, too, but you have to be careful to get a feel for how fast it will work on a particular bottom so as not to leave it on too long, and you have to be sure and rinse it VERY---VERY!---well, including scrubbing snot out of the bottom with a scotchbrite. It eats fiberglass just as readily as it eats paint if not moreso, and it tends to make a home in the surface porosity (hence the scotchbrite), waiting to wreak havoc with the adhesion of the new barrier coat and/or paint! Beware!

So much for chemicals...another option is to sandblast. Again, containment is probably a priority. I've seen some guys who do it with regularity who are very skilled and make it look easy...it really takes a careful eye and a good feel to do it well, though, and done poorly or heavy-handed it will dig holes right in there. Even with a really skilled man (figure of speech, sorry...I have absolutely no doubt that a really skilled woman...or even a really skilled hermaphrodite...could do this very well) doing it, there will be fairing to do later. I have never sandblasted a bottom before myself, but I think I could do OK as I have blasted other things plenty with a variety of media. I thought of doing this to the Triton as I do own a smallish "siphon-pot" type blaster, but figured it would take forever...the pro guy I've seen contract to do it in our yard has a rig that looks closer to a firehose!

OK...Here's the last bit. Ebb mentions powerwashing, and I should put this one in. Our yard has a VERY mean, gasoline-fired pressure washer...I have no idea how many PSI, but I am told by a co-worker that it really will take the skin right off of you. When fitted with the rotating-pulsing-jet nozzle (a shower massage for the inquisition?) it will, given enough time taken, strip an entire boat bottom of ANYTHING. We had one fellow with a 35' powerboat who actually wanted his bottom strippped this way. I'm sure it cost him dearly, but in 3 hours' time it was completely free of paint save for a few spots that needed a small bit of sanding to remove the last and most tenacious spots. If you have a really big, really mean powerwasher to deal with, you might give it a try. Wear your raingear...and your boots...and a mask (Cuprous oxide and TBT taste like crap and stain your teeth a sort of bluish color, and you will eat some if you do not have something over your mouth)...and definitely some serious eye protection.

Some amount of sanding/grinding is always going to come into play, so I will offer this thought as well. I see people all the time coming out from under the boat and Vizquene wearing respirators and tyveks...with bottom-paint-colored faces. If it is hot, you will sweat...and wet the stuff, and take it into your system. This is not good, and if you really do it good for a week or two may leave you feeling less than stellar. There is an old boat-plant trick for grinding 'glass of putting vaseline on your eyelids and below your eyes to catch the fine particulates...and you can give yourself a "barrier coat" of sorts by applying liberal quantities of vaseline to all the parts of your face not covered by your respirator or your suit's hood. You'll sweat it off after a while, but you can wash your face off with the nearest hose, dry and reapply as needed. Helps keep the yack off of your skin and hence out of your system, y'know?

OK, there's all of the commentary I could possibly chime in with on bottom stripping. Maybe even a quarter's worth!

:D

Dave

[ebb]

Hey Dave, well, I like to think sometimes about bucking tradition.

Those folks that inspired me to post this thread would have killed themselves with any other method. Absolutely. Maybe that was the real motivation, rather than environmental. As it was they had absorbant work clothes on, which got soaked - and one time near the give-up point I looked over and saw they all were covered with the multicolored stuff hair to toe, hands & arms covered with the gunge., except the female who I reckoned was a bit smarter than the males.

The Alpha could have hired the yard locals to do it as he really did not have the knack for it. In this case it had to be his first time for a bottom. These days you can admire a guy for diving right in - but a better indicator of a fool is if he can't dress for the job or take care of the crew. Have to read the product instructions carefully and follow them to the letter.

No, you might have any combo of bottom on an old boat. I guess I was lucky with 338, using the PeelAway.

Grinding off bottom paint IMCO requires a pro. You need a positive air-flow full face mask and to be taped in to your suit. I've seen the idiots, completely blue or red, grinding without protection. Their Darwin Award will be an oxygen tank and a shorter life. There is never adequate protection at the yard here, I'm often breatheing somebody else's fumes & toxics, and my own, and we're downwind from the freeway, and I sometimes forget to put a mask on when mixing cabosil. My huevos are shrinking.:eek:

Consider PeelAway. Add a day.

[commanderpete]

This is what I've heard:

Peel Away 1 is not recommended for fiberglass.

Peel Away 6 is O.K. and available at Home Depot.

Peel Away 7, West Marine Peel Away, and Peel Away Marine Safety Strip are all the same thing.

Peel Away 7 is supposed to be a little stronger than Peel Away 6.

I also read somewhere that the most important part of keel to keep smooth is the leading edge-- the first two or three feet from the bow.

I bought a telescoping pool brush to rub the bottom of slime during the season. This way I don't have to jump in the water. I don't use it much since I'm kinda lazy.

I use the Micron Extra slime blocker bottom paint $$$$$. But, I don't think it works that great.

[ebb]

Where you heard that C'pete?


I have just called Dumond Chemical (number from the web site for PeelAway) and, they say.....

THERE IS NO PROBLEM USING PEELAWAY #1 ON FIBERGLASS.

Unless you have a problem spending less money. Number 7 is also OK to use on fiberglass. It is a special wallet formulation for peeling dolars.:D



There is in the April 'Sail' a short piece called 'Stripping Secrets' that mentions some more chemical strippers and asks some yard foremen what they use. Also lists some estimates, self and pro. No, what I would call, 'practical' information.

It will only increase your resolve to do it yourself if you haul at a yard that will let you do it, and not make you buy a 'marine' stripper from them retail!


PeelAway also makes a stripper for boats that already have an epoxy barrier coat. Don't know the cost, it is expensive no doubt. I would call the company anyway and ask if PA #1 will work. 338 has had extensive epoxy work done below the waterline since I stripped the old layers of bottom off. I would call first if any "upgraded" boat needed stripping again.

[commanderpete]

Research beats rumor anyday.

[Theis]

My Ariel had no barrier coat and I took it down to the raw epoxy using chemicals. What I recall being alerted to just before I started the project is to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the stripper works on fiberglass. A conventional stripper from the hardward store, from what I was told, will go right through the gel coat, as I recall, and present a problem no one wants to have. I stuck with the WM stuff and it worked just fine - and I don't think it came to $100.

Now as to the barrier coat, nothing seems to get that stuff off, including a sander. It stays on (I haven't tried chemicals).

But how about this for a new problem. Recently I have found various places where the gel coat, underneath the barrier coat, forms little bubbles of water. When the boat is hauled in the fall, the "bubbles" ranging from 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch in diameter can be popped, and water comes out. Apparently there is water trapped inside the hull that gets to it and, not being able to get through the bottom paint, pops the gel coat. This year it is a particular problem with the aft end of the keel, where water has been trapped for years in the foam filler.

Nothing I am worried about, but it is a pain to grind out the soft spot, refingish the "dot" with a barrier coat several times to build up the thickness, and then refinish.

Any comments?

[ebb]

Capt Theis,
Solsken, #82, is an older one in the fleet. Being fresh water, hauled in winter, and subject to freezing - could there be cause for the blisters here?
We know all polyester boats have water in the laminations all the time. A hauled boat might have water collecting or staying in the lower part of the hull. The water comes into the hull from the pressure of the boat in the water. In a older boat. we may have blisters caused by stress rather than modern age (1980 on) blisters caused by a number of reasons but generally by water soluable chemicals in the polyester - stress coming from gelcoat/mat swelling and comtracting differently and separating at weaker points causing water to collect. The water picks up acid then from the laminate and swells. Maybe freezing contributes to your problem.

Here's something interesting:
The acids in the bubbles attack the polymer chains which can "break off links which are then dissolved in the liquid. This reaction is ester hydrolysis (don't we feel better having a name for our disease? ebb) It is self perpetuating because the addition of the broken link to the solution creates additional acid which leads to more attack." A much slower process than the 'modern' blisters. Although it was not clear from the paper as I scanned it if this has been observed in a 45 year old lamination. This is very close to a sugar cube scenario. I would (and am) doing everything possible to extend the life of 338 by barrier coating outside and in. outside with at least 3 coats of epoxy.

Read all about it from Doctors Rockett & Rose "The Causes of Boat Blisters" at
www.daviscoltd.com/nams/Documents/Blister_Report.html

It's worth reading.):eek:

[Theis]

Those were the very things that went through my mind when I was deciding in 1995 whether or not to rehab the vessel. Yes all those things are right, and, for the timid, he would flee at the sight of an older boat.

The original hull did not have the barrier coat (the conventional wisdom was that the gel coat was waterproof - a barrier), and I did not have the problem in those days of bubbles on the surface. Apparently the mositure inside could get out without popping the gel coat (and the bubble is not any deeper than the gel coat, but it is filled with fluid).

But the boat had 17 years on the trailer to dry out - except for water that accumulated in the bilge from rain - before the barrier coat was applied. And yes, it was exposed to23 years of freezing and thawing with water in the foam in the keel and in the bilge. As for stress cracks, when I took all the paint off, they were there - on one side - and had been of some concern. But there is no leakage through them, and a random examination did not show that the cracks went further than the gel coat (cracked just like it was topside, but not as bad.

But through all that, and with no TLC, these gel coat pops (which I understand are very common) never happened before the barrier coat - and even then it took three years. And their location is very localized, but different locations each year. Now they are just a PIA - fortunately they don't form a line - like they would if the hull were cracked.

I guess no one else has had the problem.

[Hull376]

Peter,

We have another experiment going on my boat. It was out of the water for a year, and I had all the bottom paint sanded off, and even had part of the top layer of the gel coat removed. Moisture meter indicated a dry laminate. Then had it all re sealed by rolling on 5 coats of vinylester instead of epoxy barrier coat. The resulting finish is not absolute perfection, but its better than adequate. My gel coat had a lot of small spider-webby looking cracks, and in some areas, there were pin holes below the top finish in the gel coat that appeared as the gel coat was sanded. The vinylester filled them all in. I posted a few pictures last year. I think we all decided they weren't blisters, since they didn't get to the surface, but looked more like a less than perfect application of the gel coat when the hull was laid up. I think ebb thought they might have been caused when spray gun applied resin during the build process. Anyway, I'll certainly be looking things over quite closely when I get hauled next Nov. for a new coat of bottom paint.

[Theis]

Keep me posted. I think my barrier coat is vinyl as well, not an epoxy. I have to read the article that EBB brought to my attention. There are a lot of pages to go through, but it seem interesting. I'll be looking forward to how you fare.

[ebb]

There's John down at the yard. he's taking the bottom off his project with a 2amp Porter Cable (SlickSander?), a fairly small and fairly light random orbit with the motor on top using five hole paper. There's a fitting out the side what connects to a vaccum with small diameter hose that doesn't weigh anything at all. He insisted I try it. Not bad, I'ld have to do it in small sections too!

John's boat is about 4 feet away from a highly finished frostwhite Triton. He has no plastic tarps down, and he's not scheduling sanding when the wind is up. Must be fifteen boats being worked on.

There aren't too many coats of bottom paint on his boat, but it is old, and has been out of the water awhile. He buys sheets of 24 grit peel & stick floor sander paper that he cuts into disks, and then punches the vacuum holes with a cheap punch (Harbor Freight.) Don't recognize the vacuum, it looks like a beer cooler/lunch box, and sucks 98% of the dust into its innerds. John wants to try some 16 grit. Because the hull is so hard it looks like it's been sanded with 120.

He's doing it in sections, when a piece is done he paints on some underwater highbuild epoxy, sands on that for a spell. Don't know what the floor paper costs, he's a deal on that as well. - but this is a very clean low budget bottom removal system. No chemicals and very little blue dust.:cool:

[Theis]

EBB: Thanks for the link to the article about blistering. Very informative, but I recommend to anyone that takes it on that they start out well rested and have thick coffee available.

The article is helpful and informative.

1. I now realize the reason for the blistering on my boat in one spot. The location fo the blisters is the approximate location where there had to be extensive through hull fiberglass work several years ago (but not many years in terms of Solsken being in the water) When work is done right, you can't see it, so I had forgotten about it the repairs, but the blisters are about where joint between the original hull and the repairs would be. As pointed out in the article, that is where I would find WSM (Water Soluble Materials) and the WSM cause the blisters.

2. The article suggests that whenever you see, or suspect blistering, puncture them ASAP to let them drain and be cleansed. They will get worse if the WSM contents inside the blister remain.

3. I had not realized how complex fiberglass resin was, and how many combinations of ingredients may or may not be used by a praticular boat builder. Perhaps one of the reasons that Pearsons hold up so well is that they did not have such a variety. In particular, it is possible that some of those ingredients are used because they are cheaper - not better. The buyer would never know. The buyer of a new boat has not a clue as to the technology used for the resin layup, the meaning of the procedure or the chemicals, whether the gel coat was air dried, etc. If the boat looks bright and shiny, it leaves the show room floor - no questions asked.

4. As for the stress cracks on the bottom gel coat, I realize that that is quite common, and to be anticipated (although the stress cracks generally are the result of stresses between the fiberglass and the gel coat. Needless to say, before rehabing, they abounded topsides as well.

Thanks again for the reference.

[Hull376]

ebb,

From your article, " Many of the older polyester boats which did not blister, but showed crazing, probably were made of highly leachable polyesters. The group at the University of Rhode Island has developed a method for increasing the leachability of WSM from composites and thereby preventing blister formation. What is not known, at this point, is the effect of the porous gel coat on the long term strength properties of the polyester. This is a subject on which research is continuing."

So the good news is I think my hull has the crazing associated with leaching, so won't get blisters. The unknown or potentially bad news is, the boat may eventually melt away like an Ice Cube on a hot Texas day!

:p

[Theis]

When I rehabed Solsken, I used a 1/8" Dremel routing tool bit to rout out all the above water cracks - a big job. What I found was that once I went through the gel coat, the glass was very solid, so that if the cracks were caused by WSM, it didn't appear to have any effect on the underlying glass.

Having said that, I don't know if I could have seen a hairline crack in the glass resin itself, but if there were leaching and/or blistering, I would have seen that, I presume.

[ebb]

Doctors Rockett and Rose have bestowed an unexpected mortality on our Ariel Commanders, haven't they? Now, like their skippers, the old gals have an actual life span too. We can deny our aging problems together - porosity, cracks, sagging and chemical reactions. We can try to extend both with good potions, cosmetics, plastic surgery and please with pricey new clothes and trinkets and lots of attention.

I do feel that much more tender toward the little beast (or is it paranoia?) now that I can just make out her heart. When I pat her flank she quivers as she did when she first entered the water decades ago! Hope she's not under the weather today.:D

[ebb]

Aside from all the workaday problems and contaminations in the laminating process, there are only two kinds of polyester used for boats. The good - iso. And the bad - ortho. It's completely obvious from the way Ariel/Commanders have prevailed that Pearson used the best isophthalic polyester resin available for the hand layups of the hull, deck and liner - and the gel coat. The material is proof of its superior chemical stability and flexibility.

All of our shrinking days are long gone. Probably nearly all of our resin swelling days too. IMHO all of our problems with the gel coat are mechanical rather than chemical. and related to age. Cracks appear in or at corners. or where fastenings were cinched, or where the coat was built up too thick. Or where too much was going on.

Wouldn't you say that after 45 years Ariel/Commanders are pretty inert? The only worry perhaps is whether the resin is going to let go of the fabric as the boat is pulled and pushed and punched by water and wind. Any tests on the aging of organic resins since that paper was written 20 years ago?

If our old resin was highly leachable, I'ld say that whatever wanted to leach was leached.

What we need is a true penetrating agent that would soak like water into the porous carapace of hull and deck and harden up in the interstices with fresh new rubbery strength. A penetrating anti-aging cream that really worked.

[Theis]

Have a question in regard to fiberglass aging. My recollection is that for fiberglass boats that are over 20 years old, insurance companies don't (or didn't) want to insure them - i.e. insurance was difficult to get. I remember one insurance company dropping insurance on my boat because of its age. Is this still true, and why? Currently I have boat US insurance and there appeared to be no problems with aging, other than they wanted to make sure the boat wouldn't sink when it first went into the water.

My understanding had been that the insurance companies didn't want to risk aging fiberglass.

[ebb]

Lloyds is the only insurance company that will take on any risk. All the others bet on sure things only. BoatUS must base their willingness to insure old boats on plastics industry and government records and tests, wouldn't you guess? I believe no survey of durability has shown any structural degradation of marine plastics composits from the 60s, with possible exception of sandwich panels. But then I'm no researcher.

Somebody at BoatUS has factored into their risk accesment that first decade fiberglass boats are cool. Maybe there are some old tanks and barges still in service, but I bet the military has long since obsoleted their unfashionable craft. No records kept any more. Accelerated aging test procedures on recent composites can't have any relevance to our historical resins.

So who has done any surveys or testing of our PORUS glass boats? Even to find out if any chemical reactions are still occuring under the gelcoat? That 20 year old paper refered to here is the only one that even mentions "HIGHLY LEACHABLE POLYESTERS" that I've casually run into on the net. Maybe that phrase is a highly imaginative invention of a technician filling in unanswered questions at the end of controversial report.

I sure would like to know if any more resin is leaving my boat. So would BoatUS no doubt. In the meantime, and remembering that Ariels and Commanders have evidently made it safely across oceans, and Tritons circumnavigated, epoxy barrier coats and lpu is the way to go.

I remember in the past West Marine was totally uninterested in insuring old boats. Now that WM has gobbled up BoatUS. I hope that insurance for the rest of us remains available.

[Theis]

I found it interesting that when I reinsured my boat after being out of the water 22 years, all that Boat US needed, as I recall (other than registration procedural stuff) was a photograph of the boat in its current condition.

My assumption (and you know what that means) has been that their concern was whether the boat had been maintained,their principal concern with an older boat being that someone is not trying to insure a beat up clunker to sink the boat and collect insurance. In other words, if the boat shows TLC, they will put their insurance on the line. Plus, for an old boat, the amount is not that mch. So, what do you think about my assumption?

[c_amos]

After you get done stripping the hull.... how much bottom paint did it take to re-paint it?

[Westgate]

I am in the process of removing all the bottom paint on my boat. I think there are at least eight layers!!

I am going down to the old gel coat. Before I bottom paint should I barrier coat? The gel coat appears pitted and crazed.

If a barrier coat is necessary does anyone have any recommendations as to what a good product would be?

Thanks for any help!

Andrew

[Bill]

Before I bottom paint should I barrier coat?

Not unless you're ready to leave the boat out of the water for three months or more. ;) Manual has a section on the procedure and the need to "vent" the water from the hull first.

[ebb]

Andrew,
Most of us are VERY interested in what condition you ultimately find your gelcoat on the bottom. It's going to be somewhat different than the topsides.

Others here, and myself, have chronicled what we found. My official surveyor at the time I bought my Ariel found some blisters that miraculously disappeared when my eight layers of paint were removed. My chemical removal method and some vigorous scrubbing left color in the imperfections of the gelcoat. A lot of recorded history, plus a big badly repaired booboo by the factory in the form of a hole in the bottom of the keel!

But generally the gelcoat below the waterline on 338 had none of the modern blisters caused by poor materials and lousey production methods of many boats made in the '70s, '80s, etc.

Any cracking should be forensiced for deterioration of the laminate. Star cracks might hide some delamination. Should be ground out and filled the same way an old through-hull is closed. I believe it is safe to assume that small cracks exist in the gelcoat alone and do not enter the fiberglass.
Suspicious areas should be sounded with a ballpeen hammer for deadness.

Revealing what is under the layers of bottom paint is a good thing, not only for you, suh,:cool: but for all us lazier owners as well!!!

If you are filling an imperfection with epoxy gel you can add some unversal white and forge an almost as-good-as gelcoat repair.

Barrier coating is well covered here in the Forums. I think it should be done to keep moisture from migrating into the polyester laminate. I can't remember what I used, but I chose a white one so that when paint was removed again it would be an indicator. When you look for a coating it's maybe better to look for a designated barrier coat because gelcoat is sometimes hard to get a coating to stick to even after sanding. Has to do with the filler in the gelcoat.
BUT on Little Gull, I ended up with multiple coats of low viscosity epoxy with powdered copper mixed in. (epoxyproducts.com) I consider these (8?) coats to be also 'barrier' and would not remove them. I also doubt that coppering the bottom this way will do what Trinidad (blue, green, red, and black) can do, and will roll on bottom before launching.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
It is the nature of polyester gelcoat to crack. That is what it does.
If the cracks are tight, you can't pry off any chips, begin neutering the cracks with two part 100% solids no blush epoxy laminating resin. The stuff is runny, you want to jab the resin into the cracks with the brush. Cut the bristles short if need be. This works on deck also.
I personally would then wipe the areas clean with alcohol dampened, barely damp, paper/rags. Leave the resin to harden or start to set up in the crazing. Then fill with 407 and epoxy paste. 407 will give you a chocolate color filler. Use a plastic applicator so you leave little build-up of compound behind on the repair to make next sanding easy.
Heavily sand the whole underbody gelcoat in prep. Most barrier coats are systems, so there will probably be a primer. Some barrier primer systems have a high-built sanding one, so that after the final 120 grit bruhaha the barrier will roll on smooth as silk! imco.
It is, of course, entirely OK to buy a high-end barrier epoxy and apply it without a primer. It is in the nature of the coating. Most coatings are meant to do a job without fuss, like a special coating for leaky water tanks. That's what was used on Little Gull's bottom. The copper hard coats were put on top of that.
Much satisfaction and relief when done.:rolleyes:

[Westgate]

After 10 hours on the sanders/grinders we made a bit more progress. Bought a new PorterCable RO sander for the job and it gave up the ghost at 4PM today! Box store trade in tomorrow AM!! Forgot to take pics but will do so tomorrow. The topsides look pretty good so far. There are a few cracks but nothing major yet. The bottom is another story. Heavily cracked gel coat. Crazed spiders everywhere! We're talking crack crazed arachnids! I few pieces of gel coat missing here and there.

Very happy that I am doing this. After the job is done I'll know what's there and be more confident in the hull. I too have a "bad" repair job in the lower leading edge of the keel. Looks to me like somebody hit something. I'll photo it tomorrow. Also uncovered the old propeller shaft patch up.

Drilled a few holes -very close to the bottom of the keel just forward of the shoe. Solid thru-out no hollow space. I don't have a void there as it was dug out and incorporated into the bilge (I think). I drilled a hole into the bilge to confirm this theory!!! There is a weep of salt water coming out of these lower holes. Not more than a drop, drop kind of flow but water is there. "My keel is shedding those salty tears!". Looks like it might be coming out of the laminate but really hard to tell. Bilge is bone dry so not coming from there. I suppose that there could be a void more forward?

We have decided that the hull really needs a barrier coat so we are going to leave it out for the summer. It kills me to do this as I'll miss some great spring sailing but I'd rather have a solid water tight boat. My job is really busy during the summer so no sailing then anyway. Will also be some piece of mind having Arthur on the hard during hurricane season. Thankfully we now switch to the monthly hard time rate which is much more reasonable. I was totally stressing out about getting everything done in two weeks, so I feel better that I can spend a bit more time planning and executing the tasks that need to be done. Our plan is to take the whole boat down to gel coat

We may tackle the decks..............may being the opperative word.

Looking forward to the longboard baby!!

Andrew

[Westgate]

Here are a few shots of the hull. Still not completely stripped but we did make some progress this w-end. I figure we are over half way so that's encouraging. I will be very happy when this part is done!

Also posted a few close ups of the hull. Photos aren't great but gives you and idea. Topsides look good. Bottom shows signs of crazing and a few bigger cracks. The gel coat on the keel is badly pitted. The old boot strip groove is also visible. All these sins from the past were hidden under paint. I closely inspected the hull prior to peeling and none of this was evident.

Andrew

[ebb]

Andrew,
No surprises there in the photos.

Much said eleswhere here about water in the hollow spaces where the ballast keel is.
Drill holes and get it drained, if you haven't It will help dry the hull out for coating.

[bill@ariel231]

Andrew

nice to see a bottom that hasn't suffered from bondo repairs. a little thickend epoxy, some long boarding and she'll be as good as new.

cheers,
bill@ariel231:)

[Westgate]

Bill/ebb:

Yes I agree. There are plenty of imperfections but hell the boat is 42 years old! No Bondo. Only one repair on the leading edge of the keel and it looks pretty good.

Bill FYI my wife saw Periwinkle here on the website and is now insistent they we paint the topsides of Arthur dark blue! Great, my first sailboat paint job and we have to use the most difficult colour :eek:. "I" also like your cream decks but I think "we" are going with traditional white. Blue trinidad for bottom and a white boot stripe and we will be good to go! Thanks for providing such a fantastic looking boat for inspiration and a goal to work towards. If Arthur looks half as nice we will be very pleased!

Andrew

[Tim Mertinooke]

Andrew, you are not the only one who has fallen victim to the allure of Bill's paint job. It is indeed nice! Bill, did I see a recent reference that you were a COUPLE weeks away from launch?

[bill@ariel231]

thanks, the paint it getting a little tired after 5 seasons. A couple hours with the buffer will put it right this year. i may repaint the hull next year (but that moves the launch date to the middle of May in order to get good painting weather in southern New England). This season my launch window is the third week of April (meaning the boat needs to be ready at 0800 on the 14th). That's not far away. :)

p.s. my earliest launch to date was april fools day. (burr!)

[Westgate]

Bill I 'm sure you have said so elsewhere but what was the colour and type of paint?

Andrew

[bill@ariel231]

Most of the topside paint on A-231 is Interlux.

The Decks: Interdeck "Cream" (YJC089) for the horizontal surfaces and Brightside Polyurethane "White" (4359) against the vertical surfaces.

The Hull: Brightside Polyurethane "Dark Blue" (4316) with a Rustoleum "Sunflower Yellow" Bootstripe

Bottom is Interlux Fiberglass Bottomkote ACT - "Gray White" (7740B)

for Hull color, the "Sapphire Blue" (4241) is growing on me that may be my next paint job.