Galley Cooktop Choices?

[tpalmer]

The previous owner of Mariel (hull162) took the sink out and didn't need a cooktop. I plan to make a couple of short cruises between Mobile and Apalachicola over the next 6 months and need to develop a working galley.

My plan so far is to buy a glowmate single-burner butane, followed by a Origo 2-burner alcohol and finish with a Magna Bar-b-q, along with a microwave (at some point). If you have any experince with any of these, let me know.

[marymandara]

Microwave????
To each his own, I guess...

I had one of the Glowmaster butane stoves and liked it pretty well, the canisters are spendy and that part was a pain. Seemed like I always ran out of gas in the last cannister when my dinner was 1/2 done.

I've been really happy with the propane Magma grill. Be sure and buy one of those little orange airtight boxes to put the propane cannisters in if you want to store them safely down below. It is also well worth buying the stand-alone base for the grill so you can use it on the beach. I have the so-called "stove/BBQ combo", which comes in handy when it's time to boil up the crabs. If I had to do it again, I'd spring for the oversized "party-size" model. No one I know who bought the charcoal model has been truly happy...some have said they were, with a pained expression!

Personally I am not crazy about alcohol stoves just because they don't burn all that hot, and in a lot of places finding the alcohol is a pain. If you ever were to go south with the boat you'd be really hard pressed for fuel. There are lots of old 2-burner Kero. stoves out there for nearly free...parts are still available if you look around. If you dislike the smell, you can splurge and run it on lamp oil.

For a single burner stove, the old seaswing is hard to beat. If you look hard in the seajunk stores you can find the kerosene models for 75.00 (primo) or less (project). Most of the parts for the optimus stove they use are common items you can get at the industrial supply house, and if there are parts you can't, they are still available plentifully as long as you do not mind mailing away to England. FWIW, I have 3 different friends who live aboard year round and have no cooking apparatus other than a kerosene SeaSwing. One of the fellows uses it as his heater, too, by upending a small saucepan over a low flame.

In the Triton, I am installing a 2-burner propane range but also carrying a kero. seaswing as a backup and for particularly foul Wx...you really have to see how well that gimbal works to believe it! In addition is the trusty magma grill.

I grew up with alcohol stoves, and I'd say also that you can get some great deals on the old pressurized ones...and that I think the hysteria about them as a safety hazard is really overrated hooey so that everyone would buy new stoves. It's a fire-breathing item, and like anything else that is on fire in a confined space needs to be respected, right?
All the same, after using butane, propane, and kero., I'd be hard-pressed to EVER want a cold-burning alcohol stove in my boat again.
Supposedly a butane stove burns hottest, but I had a race with my buddy and his seaswing...and lost. His water boiled first even tho I had a headstart while he screwed around for 30 seconds lighting it!

Dave

[tpalmer]

Does the Magna grill use 2 types of propane? I don't have a propane system on my boat. Are the smaller (lower pressure?) canisters safer (don't require a sniffer or over board vent).

Your article was most helpful.

Thanks, Tommy Palmer

[marymandara]

The Magma Grills come with a regulator that takes the small, relatively low-pressure canisters that are sold everywhere for camping gear and propane torches, and then you can buy the hose and adaptor assembly to run off of a larger, higher-pressure tank as found in installed marine systems, outdoor gas grills, etc.

They sell a little canvas bag to hang on a railing and hold the small bottles, or you can buy the airtight orange plastic boxes that look like a plastic ammo can but a bit larger and thus safely store them belowdecks.

As an aside, I've found a lot more luck using the squat coleman-type canisters than with the taller skinnier propane torch-style ones. No idea why unless it's Murphy's law in action(the skinny ones hold the same amount but are often 1/2 the $$!)

Hope that helps. Please do give some thought to the SeaSwing or other kero. stove--I think you'll find they are a really nice and economical option. If I had known about the SeaSwing, I'd have not bought the 1-burner Glowmaster I lived with...there's no comparison. I have a 30-year-old SeaSwing and it's (with a small amount of TLC up front) good as new. Now that's a solid investment in my book!<G>

We also have a kero. bulkhead heater to install with the new interior. The propane ones tend to make it rain from the overhead in a damp environment (not unlike a propane stove, or worse yet the alcohol ones) where the kerosene burns hotter and dries the boat some. Mary doesn't deal well with petroleum stinks aboard, so we'll run it on lamp oil when needed.

I know a couple of fellows who have installed cast iron cook stoves in their smallish sailboats, and they are by far the best for keeping the boat warm and dry in winter. One of the fellows got a bit creative with some simple parts from the industrial store and the farmer's co-op and made a dual-fuel, propane/wood stove, which was terrific! Took it out to head to Mexico, but it was dynamite until then, we used to all congregate down on Jay's boat when it was snowing and the floats were iced up and hang out in shorts (I can't explain the rest of this tradition, really) eating large amounts of corned beef and drinking cheap beer.

Tom's cookstove on the Vega even has an oven, and he makes some mean bread...although he makes it all in the pressure cooker on the seaswing anymore. Woodstove is only used for winter heat, and I'm not real sure why he still has a propane system. I think he was going to dual-fuel the woodstove but never got to it.

Whatever the stove, the pressure cooker is the big thing to get. If you are thinking at all of a seaswing, or any proper stove with the pot-holders, you need to pay close attention to the diameter.
Modern pressure cookers are completely un-scary and a true necessity for cooking on a boat in my book. There are a lot of nice European ones to be had, and I've found e-bay to be the best source...lots of them for sale brand new. I looked at lots of different ones in the stores before I bought, and I think the Italian ones are nicest, myself.

If you have an inboard model, BTW, you already have the makings of a proper propane locker in the form of that huge lazarette...a bit of 'glass to seal it up, and you're most of the way there. Friend of mine has similar in his Albin-Vega 27, and I had planned same for DECISION until I suddenly expanded from "I" to "We", Toby and Wayne suddenly owned Dee, and I had this Behemoth Triton on my hands...<G>

Best,
Dave

[ebb]

Capt Dave,
Now you're cooking!
Given the price of of a Broadwater or Force Ten swinging stove - and the amount of room they take up, even the two burner with the broiler - those Sea Swing stoves look pretty good.
You bring up the fact that they are not meant to take a ten inch pressure cooker.
Do you think the fence on the cooker can be altered to take the larger pot? Will they take the weight and swing properly?

[tpalmer]

Dave,

I have to 2-pronged approach to upgrading the systems on Mariel(hull162). Long term upgrades without budget limitations (ie a pipe dream) and a short term down & dirty functional approach (ie cheap).

Long term I want to get propane and converting the aft lazarette where an out board would go is an interesting idea(I have an inboard atomic 4). What would it take and how would it effect the weight distribution on the boat?

Thanks, Tommy

[marymandara]

In terms of the stove (Ebb's question), the seaswings we want (kero) are of heavy (1/4") cast aluminum...so I'm not sure just exactly how you'd go about modifying one. Sat here and stared at one for a while, and still don't see it. They will, however, take plenty of weight. 5 pound brisket, plus potatoes and carrots, plus water, plus the weight of a nice stainless cooker...what more could a man want!<G> The newer swings for the sterno cans or the little dangling propane bottles are not near as stout. It's worh looking around at a lot of pressure cookers, I've seen some tall skinny 8-Qt. ones that would fit. A friend of mine also came up with an innovation of sorts to keep the lid on even a tall pot in hairy WX by splicing up a length of 1/8" Amsteel with a hook at each end in lengths appropriate to each of his 3 pots/pans.

As to converting the lazarette, the object would really be to make a vented, water and gas-tight enclosure back there...take a look at a comercially available propane locker and modify from there.

The weight balance issue?? Well, the propane will not weigh near as much as an outboard! The boats are rather sensitive to weight back there, I used to carry the minimum I could in the laz since you can watch the boat speed up as you remove stuff from it and place it below.

Certainly none of the stuff you could pack in back there is as unkind to the boat's performance as the Atomic install is...I had one in the Commander and had the opportunity to compare to an Outboard Commander that was otherwise pretty similar in terms of sails, rig, etc...and the difference was night and day! Before I decided I'd rather just have da big oars, I had planned to remove the A4 and cut in an outboard well in the laz. Once the inboard was gone the boat was a freakin' rocket! There's also a great deal of stowage space to be had in the engine hold, plus with the engine gone there is a huge keel sump into which one could build a large water tank! At that rate, I'd mount the propane bottle(s) in the cockpit and make an outboard well! Each his own, just my thoughts.

Best,
Dave

[marymandara]

I should think out loud a bit more here on the stove issues...

IF I still lived on the Commander, and IF it were still just me, I'd probably have abandoned the propane locker idea by now. IF.

The only reason the Triton gets propane is the 2 burner range with oven...and there are a few key reasons I have that going on:

1--I got one out of the dumpster in a condition that I was able to repair and make look nice.

2--Mary (actually a "Maria") is a 20-year-plus food professional/kitchen manager type, plus she is of good Italian-Portugese stock (she claims this has something to do with it...) and likes to cook. Maiden name was Del'Toro, as in bull, as in sometimes I know not to argue too much.

3-- the range I "mined" was of the so-called european compact size. There is very little functional difference between that and the so-called standard 2-burner size but a great difference in the weight and amount of space it takes up. I have , however, seen the good old 2 burner-and-oven Hillerange/Seaward Princess used for 250.00 (of course, you'll spend some $$ making that special work right.). I've seen the kerosene version for less than that! Rarely see a deal on the compact ones, and I would not be running out to spend 1300.00 on a new stove!

4--Fuel availability. Used to be you could get kero. in every teeny corner of the world, but all my voyaging friends advise that now the only fuel you are likely to find on a teeny atoll is propane. Kero still happens fairly easily, but not as easily as the propane. Alcohol? You must be joking! Suppose you could burn everclear...and you can get the alcohol burner for the old optimus-based seaswings, BTW (got one just in case!)

5--Grandma's coffee cake recipe.

6--Jiffy blueberry muffins.

7--Tater tot casserole.

You can bake on a single burner, too, though.
Our friends James and Mei Baldwin aboard the twice-circumnavigating Triton 384 (ATOM) make do with a single-burner primus-type stove and are very happy about it. On that basis I had gotten out from under the range until M (usually until that point all squeamish about my regularly reaching into marina and boatyard dumpsters, or hanging the kid in by the ankles if I couldn't reach) spotted the Eno range. "STOVE!!! DAVID!!! STOVE!!! LET's GET IT!!!). LOL!!!

Dave

[tpalmer]

Someone said that if cooking on your boat is close to the way you cook at home, you'll enjoy the process better. Of course there are limitations. So here are some foods I would cook.

Pasta, rice, potatoes (can you tell I'm not on the Adkins Diet)

eggs and bacon


fried anything: is it possible to deep fat fry food on a boat or is it just too much smell and mess?

I guess my real question is: What do you cook on your boat and what is just too much trouble ?

[drm901]

We've used a pressure cooker (both on the boat and at home) for all kinds of roasts, soups, etc. I much prefer the throw everything into the pot and go topside and enjoy the weather.

[ebb]

Ok
Force 10 makes a one-burner 8" diameter capacity Seacook stove that retails around $120.
It uses a 16.4 ox propane bottle. I've read these little bottles are available world wide. Bottles can be taken off partially filled and put back on again at will. Adapters are available for foreign bottles.

Kuhn-Rikon has a 50 yr Anniversary Pressure Cooker that is 8" diameter and 3 3/4 qt capacity. Available around here for $115. There is also a more expensive pressure cooker of the same dimensions and capacity.

It would be great if there was a marriage here. The problem is whether the cooker will fit into the stove. The special has no front handle (opposite the long handle) and over the phone the salesman said the hndle on the special was 'longer.'

I'm going to persue this, as this brand new stuff option is a lot cheaper than a new s.s. box stove.

IMCO there is no safe cockpit propane locker type refit/remodel for the A/Cs. Unless you can figure a straight thru unrestricted drain-vent at all angles of heel a cockpit locker is too close to the waterline.

Bottles will have to be stored above seat level to be safe and, probably, legal. On a cruiser, I personally would not completely trust an 'ammo' box type stowage for the one pound bottles down below.

[commanderpete]

I do alot of cooking with a pressure cooker. Works great.

Except for that one time.............

http://members.aol.com/pzgr1/injury.jpg

[tpalmer]

This Seacook 8" stove is looking more and more like my first galley addition. Simple and cheap.

Sailnet has a good article about accomodating the sailing experience for your mate. The author made the case for getting a vacuum sealer.

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/learningtosail/index.cfm?articleid=ouread0050&tfr=fp

TP

[ebb]

Wholey Jehosephat, Cpete, lookths like the explothion knockth out yer teeth thoo!
Must have one of the oldtime pressure cookers that had a weight that danced on the lid. The Swiss pot has a '5 point overpressure safety system.' But then they're trying to perthuade you to purthase one.

Capt TP's sailnet page has the swing stove for $99.

Wonder what I'ld have to do for my girlfriend to get her to give me a boat? Since she hates boats, it might be another fixerupper, to keep me ashore!

[marymandara]

Lucky thing you weren't at one of the old OarClub Corned Beef Nights--we'd have probably just hacked it off for you and stuck it in the cooker again until it looked like brisket!

Corn Neighbor, anyone???:rolleyes:

[ebb]

Force 10 does NOT make an 8" single burner gimballed stove any more. Maybe the existing design once did hold an 8" (maybe it can be altered,) but the inside grate over the burner has an integral wire rose loop-de-loop that is adjusted to hold a smaller 7 inch pot.

It is probably one of the stupidest improvements imaginable - now the common 8" pressure cooker which you normally would use with this stove in rough water can't be safely held in, because there is a whole bunch of twisted wire OVER THE BURNER.

The gimballed part which is a s.s. shell is wide enough to hold the pressure cooker. You might imagine I sent off an incensed email to Force 10 telling them how they could attach pot holders to the shell - where they would be away from the burner and therefor wouldn't get burning hot and were therefor more user friendly. I also told them there was another way with the wire rose pot holder gismo that could be fit over the top of the shell if they wanted to. Boy, did I tell them!

Forespar, I believe, make an 8" seaswing, but it is 7" DEEP. I don't know if there is a slot for the p. cooker handle. If there isn't, then their stove is equally stupid. (But could more easily be altered.) I'm going to wait til I see one.

I figure that if these people can't do a simple cooker right, how can one trust them on anything else they market. One can spend a 1000 to $2000 for a multiburner stove with a grill or oven. Then you have to fork out for the propane installation and the bloody locker with the valves and solenod and tubes and bubba tanks.

The seacook looked to me like a great alternative to all the bs and the space the expensive stuff takes. I was thinking it would be cool to mount maybe two single stoves in the lined two burner gamballed stove space and be totally upscale and versatile. For $200.

Ha! Force 10 knows this too. Suppose other cheaters like me took the cheaper way out. They wouldn't be able to sell as many grossly overpriced doodahs. What's our profit margin on a $99 retail product anyway? Hell, let's make it unusable and then we'll disappear it from the market.

I sent it back - we'll see how easy it is to get a refund from sailnet.com
I got free shipping coming, cost $22 plus the grief to send it back. And sailnet.com is STILL advertising the Force 10 as an eight incher! None of these corporations really seems to care about the consumer.

NOPE, there will not be Force 10 anything in 338:mad:

[Tony G]

Ebb....................simmer down:D

[marymandara]

Hey, Ebb...

For you, specially for you...I have a spare, original, Optimus SeaSwing (Kero). Needs some elbow grease and TLC, but I have yet to see one that couldn't be made work like new with very little effort. I was sort of saving it for...I don't know what, really. Bought it and then ran into a lot of used items from an estate that had an absolutely perfect, NOS one. I wanted to sell it, but Mary vetoed that!

Anyway, I kept this one around figuring I'd clean it up, tweek it out and hawk it off...still as it is. Even has the mounting bracket!
These are terrific little stoves and ROBUST (!)...and I know how you like that!<G>

For some reason I never can get hold of you by e-mail, even when you tell me to...So if you are interested, get hold of me, OK?

( commander280@yahoo.com or maryraindrop@attbi.com )

Dave

[ebb]

This seems to be a good time to put
eborregaard@hotmail.com
here. Also. Because the private message system of this forum defeats me every time I try to use it. There is a neteze address associated with my name that seems to absorb messages, as I never seem to retrieve them, so if the address says >neteze< it won't get to me.

There has been a lot of information, new friends, memorable exchanges, some wonderfully outrageous. Great photos. Fantastic! Don't know that I could have done without this Forum. Likely more work on the boat! Fabulous community here! :cool:

[tpalmer]

While visiting my mother and brothers in Jacksonville,FL, I'm going to make a side trip to St.Augustine to check out Sailors-Exchange (WWW.sailors-exchange.com) to see what kind of sea-junk they have. My main goal is to find something to cook on. Maybe I'll get lucky and there'll be an old 8 inch stove will be there. TP

[ebb]

It's been awhile. The timer ran out on this cooktop thread.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/cookingfuels.php
(And timer went out on this article... Realized, looking back, that it's archived,
from GOB Vol3#2 M/Ap 2000, "copyright 2016". Thought it was current.)

But then again... whatz changed in thirteen... or sixteen years?? ...right, usual
suspects, they're still here in 2016. Their timer could & should be almost over.
At the end of her paper she has convinced me (and herself, I think) that not
one really deserves a place on board, especially below where a single spark
can blow the deck of your boat and spoil your day.

Well researched, well written, well organized look at stoves from the FUEL
angle. Might help, seeing them compared this way. Comparison charts, too!

If you aren't a seagoing cook like me, there is an interim out with cooktops
using small propane bottles. Method isn't green, but it's clean. Take a look at
China's latest 'marina hob.'
CampChefEverest2-Burner CAMPSTOVE http://rei.com/product/824171/...
Appealing looks, s.s drip tray, rounded corners! 20.000 BTU burners!! but also
can be turned down to an honest simmer. Piezo* start, 16.4oz propane bottle.**
Wish they made a single hob, the two burner is rather large for the Ariel galley.
The rather large gas bottle attaches awkwardly to the side, extending its length.
It is a campstove, doubles as a backup for power outages, and as an extra.
Objective review...http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Camping-Stove-Reviews/Camp-Chef-Everest
Propane is a petroleum distillate.
* >spark<!!

Propane is considered clean burning, leaving no CO2 footprint. However, the
canisters are a huge problem... nobody knows what to do with the empty's.
You buy 'em, you own 'em.. Nobody wants them. End up in the landfill. SMART!


It won't be too long until - on an all 48VDC electric Ariel - that a solar powered
INDUCTION HOTPLATE will be the top cooktop choice!
Solar PV are also coming right along: Just saw a pic of Solar Cloth sails (Sail mag)
on a sled cruiser, made by Bainbridge, I believe. Look like they just patched on
panels, but it's happening! Gather it in! Electric storage tanks are getting better,
too, $$$$.
www.treehugger.com talks about truck drivers having "seriously efficient
airconditioners" and finds Kingtec Technologies' 48VDC SOLAR POWERED A/C
with Morningstar Tristar charge controller... which see. Unit much too large for
an Ariel. But they'll have one you can hold in yer lap before long!

'Low-tech' SOLAR BOX OVENS have been around awhile. Have an idea for a
collapsible passive cooker... no fuel, no electrics. Take apart for storage. There's
a toolbox sized hybrid kickstarter with builtin electric plate, that automatically
kicks in to finish cooking when clouds gather. Sunfocus Solar Electric Hybrid.
http:www.solarcooker-at-cantinawest.com/ {red flags -- watch it!!
This is a great resource site. VOCs in some ovens is the problem. Check it out. }
Keeping stoves aimed at the sun on a boat is a prob. Has to be worth a try.


LIQUID FUELS stink, always seem to become problematic, toxic, bad company.
Gas fuels under pressure are bombs. Who wants to be stuck living with a bomb?
What solar (and wind) promises is the intelligence to make our own personal fuel.

How on earth did we get into fossil fuels? It was free. All we had to do was suck
it up and burn it. Still doing it, after more than 150 years, to this very day...
breathe it, eat it, drink it, wear it, trash it... 8 billion of us altering the planet,
transforming our atmospheric chemistry into something far less auspicious than
what we had given to us before the madness of frak-headed fo$$il fuel mafia.

From a blog perspective: There are nothing but disappointing compromises
messing with flammable liquids for propulsion, heating and cooking. Leaving
the grid, going offshore, with bottles, cans and tanks of fossil oils and fuels
secreted throughout the ship, is ridiculous.... when green alternatives are
already here. We're on the edge of a more desperate reality. Believe me, there
will there be no more holy human resurrections when this lonely planet loves
us no more. Better take care of this one, now.

Burning one gallon of gasoline makes a 19gallon CO2 footprint. One gallon of
diesel makes 27gallons of CO2.

............................My boat should leave no footprints............................


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**YouTube. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of youtubes telling us how
to refill 'Coleman Bottles' (16oz net weight canisters~ ) using a $20 refill
adapter from your 5gal 20lb 'BBQ' tank. If you haven't done it, here's some
tricks to do it right:
~ {Assuming my oz/gram scale is correct, and the net wt also, a brand new
1lb Coleman Cylinder weighs 30.15oz. Minus the tare = 14.15oz propane}

NO Pre-Chilling! FULLY Refill a 1lb Propane Bottle (Avoid 700%
Markup on Propane) Coleman by WheeliePete. Afterwards, read UPDATES
just below picture. Important. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD1CmorB_qM
Understand that Coleman canisters are never filled the whole way for shipping,
to allow for expansion. Considering how these may end up on a boat, seems
like a good idea not to fill to bursting.
When considering a 20lb propane tank for littlegull, decided there was too much
engineering, too many parts: pressure gauge, solenoid, regulator, supply hoses
involved, to guarantee an always safe permanent locker, that would positively
drain heavier than air propane leaks overboard. This also applies to where we
keep rustable bottles on the boat. Using small bottles inside the cabin SEEMS
to be safer than all the parts & connections of a 20lb hookup. BUT certainly, it
is a lot safer to cook outdoors in the cockpit with the 1lb. ONE MORE THING:
Must install a spark-proof gas detector -- with alarm -- inside accommodation.
[Metal 1lb Coleman cylinders are not meant to be refilled. However, the jerks
also made them unrecyclable. That's what this is about. Haven't got a chance.
Older cylinders may have leaky vents. (All electric looking better and better!)

Mr Heater Propane Tank Refill Adapter widely available. GanderMtn $12.99.

WheeliePete shows us what forceps are for when refilling 1lb canisters. Fly-
fisherman Orvis Power Jaws Forceps $15. Barb crusher for catch&release,
split-shot crimper. Curved jaw hemostat, s.s. Has a tiny pin set in one jaw
about 2/3s back from the nose, use it to clean out the eye of a teeny hook.
http://www.orvis.com/p/power-jaws-forceps/24lc SPECIFY CURVED JAW.
(The $6 straight one at RiteAid is not a precision tool.)
OTHER USES: Hemostat means it can be used as a third hand because it also
clamps. Pull needles through sailcloth and leather, bend & solder electric wire,
remove ticks & matted hair from dog, hold tiny nuts, small assemblies,
computer work, undoing knots in small stuff, relieve canister vent.

These are patented, well designed, jaw-beautifully-tapered specialty pliers.
'Comments' universally positive by fishermen. This 5" tool is much more than
you'll ever need for releasing vents in Coleman bottles. BUT it is sturdy,
exquisitely crafted, multi-purpose eye candy -- with large gold loops for gloved
fingers. *****... Didn't know you always wanted one of these!! Get two.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Have the Baldwin gimbaled primus burner. Sometimes seen installed like gimbled
stoves with the burner at counter height. The pendulum effect is less violent
lower in the boat. But I will locate it slightly closer to center by the companion
way, upon the counter, almost out the hatch! Kero is a smelly fuel... and I'm
one who will get it to smoke -- have a learning curve somewhere around here,
and will give it a fair chance... If I found a tiny kerosene heater, makes better
heat than propane, and will be directly vented out the cabin top and make a
smutty footprint.