Rotting away and lost in the Bay!

[Anthony/Bina]

HELP! We are the new owners of the commander #155, our first sailboat, and we are eager to take out our boat. Yesterday we almost lost our engine in the SF Bay. The clamps that hold the engine (Nissan, 6-hp outboard) to the motor well come loose under heavy throttle.
The motor clamps to a block of wood that appears to be fiberglassed into the lazarette motor well. It seems to be deteriorating and is too soft to properly hold the clamps.
Can anyone out there answer these questions?
1. Is the original outboard motor mount made of wood on one side? Or did the fiberglass wear away on ours?
2. there is no way our motor will clamp to this wood, has anyone tried fiberglassing or applying any other products to allow for a proper mount?
3. Has anyone else had a similar problem with their motor moving on them, and if so, how was the problem solved?

[Bill]

Never saw any wood on the ob mounting bulkhead, only fiberglass, but it could have been covering a section of wood. We have protected both sides of the attachment area with a ss plate to prevent damage. Without seeing your problem it's hard to suggest a fix, but it sounds like you need to replace the wood and re-fiberglass the area.

Construction seems to vary in this area from boat to boat. In part, Pearson may have varied how it was finished and in part it's the result of owner modifications.

[commanderpete]

Welcome aboard.

The fiberglass on my bracket had mostly worn away to the wood below. Assuming the wood is still solid, make sure its dry and grind off any loose fiberglass. Then clean it up and give it a coat of thinned epoxy. Afterwards build up a bunch of layers of fiberglass. Thats what I did.

[reids]

On commander #138 the fiberglass was worn away down to the wood. The wood was in good shape, so instead of glassing it in, I used my favorite all time boat stuff (since buying a boat) Over the wood ( i chiseled out a small rotten area) I applied Interprotect Watertite, a 2 part epoxy. I love the stuff, it is waterproof. Just let it dry, sand it and paint it. it is designed for gel coat blister repair, but can be applied up to 3/4? of an inch. My motor mount where I used it has been great, no problems and that was 2 season ago. Incidently, proper repair of the drain hole there is VERY important, that is how the water can get into the wood as well. ( I dried it with a blower dryer for several days, then used my favorite stuff to epoxy in a rubber tube cut flush, epoxy and painted the ends of the tube in place. where the tube exits the fiberglass. I did not dry it long enought the 1st time becasue water eventually pushed its way out around the tub. You need to do this after a haulout. Good luck

[SkipperJer]

Commander 270 is my first boat too. I'm in a DIY boatyard on the Chesapeake that could pass for a Pearson museum. At least half the Ariels and Commanders have a 3/4" piece of plywood epoxied to the inner wall of the motor well to beef up the fiberglass. I think this comes from the trend toward heavier, higher horsepower outboards. My boat came with an 8HP Sailmaster (quite a grunt). I read somewhere that Alberg expected these wells to house 4hp motors. Big difference in weight, torque and wear and tear. Mine is torn up too and is on the list for this winter.

Most outboard brackets have holes drilled through them to bolt the motor to the bracket or transom in addition to the clamps. My shade-tree outboard mechanic highly recommends that I install bolts next year. According to him the clamps were never designed to be the only thing holding the motor on to any type of boat. He recommends three fasteners: clamps, bolts and a steel safety lanyard looped through the lifting handle in case the first two fail.

[Hull376]

I just redid the motor mount on 376. Last time I did it was when I was 18! This time, I ground off all the laminate on the fore side of the mount to expose verrrry rottten and waterlogged wood. I chisled it all out as best I could. Then I inserted a new piece of plywood. Oh yea, I also drilled out the old drain tube. Next, I fiberglassed over the exit for the tube, then filled the whole works with a lot of epoxy from back up in the laz. Last step was to redrill a hole for a larger drain hole (OEM was too small in my opinion--- clogged up from time to time), insert a new piece of PVC, then epoxied it in. Eureka! Solid as a rock, and should be 25 years before I have to do it a third time!

[Anthony/Bina]

good to know were not the only ones with this problem... Here is a photo of the area... was this drain hole always wood? or PVC lined?
When I clean up the rotted wood, can I glass over it? or do i need to dry it with some method before?

[commanderpete]

That wood looks to be a goner. Replacement would be best, and probably easier in the long run.

Before you build up that area too much, take a look at the clearance for the engine clamp screws. I barely had enough room to back out the screw clamps without the handles getting hung up on the ledge opposite the motor mount. That's why I left that area indented.

I doubt your engine is small enough to fall down that hole. If I'm wrong.....well....its not my fault.

[SkipperJer]

He's right. Clamp clearance can be an issue. I think that's where the 3/4" piece of expoxied plywood on the inner wall of the well works well. It add strength and most motors still seem to fit. Think about those bolts too.

[tcoolidge]

Had the same experience too. I did the same as has been described by others (cleaned out the rotten wood, sealed it with epoxy and a layer of glass) but thought the compression of the motor mounting screws would destroy the glass in no time so I went to the local plastics manufacturer and got a scrap of plastic (polyethelene actually) and cut it to fit where the wood had been and screwed it in to place so the motor mounts would tighten down against that instead of the glass. I also backed it with a thin layer of neoprene which really cut down on the engine vibration. It's been a couple of years since it did my repair and it hasn't given me any new problems.

[Tony G]

I couldn't help but notice the size of these lazarette drain holes here. They appear to be 3/4" or larger. Is that the size Commanders came with or is this the result of owner modification? 113 has a 3/8"(at the largest)hole in her lazarette. I figured that these boats were just that dry:D Tony G

[mrgnstrn]

OK, I give, what is the drain hole for?
It looks like it drains the wrong way (i.e. drains the ocean INTO the boat, instead of vice versa).

I don't think I have a drain hole on the forward end of the O/B hole. I don't think I want one, I have enough problem with shipping water in the O/B opening, and down into the bilge. In fact I have often filled the bilge up to the floor boards when in choppy water and a stiff wind. Of course a baffle in the opening would help a bunch, but that is on the list for this winter.

[Bill]

Early model Ariels did not have a floor in the lazarette, that's why you have no drain. In later models, the lazarette was also isolated from the rest of the boat's interior.

[mrgnstrn]

Oh!
Well, that brings to mind a good question: Which is better?
Isolating the laz seems like a pretty good idea to me.
Anybody have other experiences?

[Mike Goodwin]

How early?
#45 has a watertight laze with drain hole & it looks original .
As I understand ,#45 was from the 2nd month of production, 1962 .
I rarely get water coming in the outboard well too.

[tcoolidge]

1 vote for enclosing the lazarette. Somehow having a way to ship water directly into the bilge would bother me. The amount of water that can come in through the well when you have the rail buried is surprising. It seems like the drain holes might be a little bit custom. I have a 1" drain that angles aft in the lowest part of the lazarette and is more vertical than those shown here. It drains the slosh from the well without any problem and doesn't take on any water. Baffles are a very good idea. Might be an interesing topic of discussion to find out the various solutions out there.

Tom

[Bill]

How early? Boats around here up to at least #76 came without the area enclosed. All were enclosed by owners, so you find a variety of fixes. Some, I'm sure were influenced by the later factory revisions. The owner installed drain in #76, for example, was originally a 1/4" bronze pipe. I have since enlarged the drain to about 1-inch. The ss covering bracket for the ob, however, cuts about a 1/3rd of that.