Gennaker/Asymetrical Spinaker

[Theis]

I think this year I will get one of these asymetrical foresails for light wind, aka gennakers, that don't use whisker/spinnaker poles. I am interested in any dos and don'ts, and experiences others have had with the gennaker/asymnetrical jib. Also, any comments about the sock to bring them down. My interest is for broad reaching and almost downwind, not tacking; for cruising, not racing.

In this field, I an a neophyte. A gennaker, in my defintion, is a light nylon foresail held at three points: a tack connected to the bow plate, the halyard at the masthead and clew going right to a block mounted right at the stern on the side the sail is on.

These bags are big, about 400 sq. ft., dwarfing the main and the 170% jib combined.

Thanks.

[Theis]

Thanks for your reply.

When you say curising spinnaker, is that the same as what I am referring to as a gennaker - an asymmetrical foresail with the tack tied to the bow?

If so, how do you find it in light wind?

Is the bag so bulky it is impossible or difficult to handle and store (assuming 3/4oz cloth)?

Do you use it often, or is it so cumbersome and dangerous that you rarely use it (nice to have but never use sail)?

Do you have trouble holding a helm, i.e. does steering become impossible on a broad reach or near downwind?

Would you recommend having one for light wind cruising to another Ariel sailor, who doesn't have a crew of young dudes to do this and do that on command?

I doesn't seem like many people have gennakers, and that cause me some concern.

Thanks in advance for completing my survey.

[Theis]

Thanks. It is such a temptation. If it fits into you cockpit locker, then it must be relatively small (not like the #1 genoa which almost requires trailing a support dinghy.

Peter

[Theis]

I bit the bullet and got the gennaker. I'll report on it next summer after I have used it. It is about 500 sq feet of sail. The sail I selected was a Doyle. This is to share some comments I heard from the sailmakers (which was like pulling teeth, I might say).

My purpose for the gennaker was for a downwind sailing, recognizing that I sail shorthanded, or with guests rather than hotshot, hot blooded young power sailors as crew.

1. Gennakers, or asymmetrical spinnakers, are apparently fairly new, being a product principally of computer aided design and manufacturing. They are a fairly complicated cut, I was told, and but for the computer, unlike a symmetrical spinnaker, would not be possible, at least for real world prices.

2. A gennaker is not a gennaker is not a gennaker. The major lofts will largely treat a gennaker as a single variety, the one version being a one size fits all. However, there are differences in the angle of tack under which they are to be employed. The average gennaker is good from a close reach through a broad reach. A problem occurs as you start going closer to downwind in that the main will blanket the average gennaker, so they are not that useful, like at 165 degrees off the wind. The way that is resolved is to build the gennaker with "broad shoulders" which rise above the main to catch the wind. However, this "broad shoulder" gennaker does not do as well up wind, so you both give and get something. I purchased the broad shoulder version.

3. Also, I found out, the Ariel, with its low aspect ratio, creates its own problems. The first I just mentioned is the blanketing of the lower portion of the spinnaker by the mainsail. However, the second is that because of the low mast height, it does not catch the winds at a higher elevation. In light winds, the gennaker and the broad shoulderswill help substantially in this regard.

4. If you consider a gennaker, be mindful that the sail is only one of several parts of the entire rig. The sailmaker can provide items a, b, c(optional) and d. For the rest of it you are on your own.

a. The stuffer is the sock that the gennaker is contained in when put up or when doused. My understanding is that the gennaker can be mounted, and left mounted, inside the stuffer. Then when you want to use the sail. it is already raised, and you just raise the stuffer to the masthead, and, voila, you're under way. Generally the stuffer comes with and is part of the sail order, but do not assume that. Stuffers run, depending on the brand, either about $150 or $250.

b. The turtle is the bag the gennaker and the stuffer go in. It is different than a sailbag in several ways, but the bottom line is that there is a place for all the components so that the sail can be easily mounted and it does not become tangled.

c. A "billy" or whatever it was called - it seems to go by different terms = is a clamp that holds the tack of the gennaler to the forestay. I have been told that I don't need one and to forget it. I have been told that I should have one and need it. I don't know but don't think it is useful because the foot of the gennaker flies away from the forestay. Perhaps only when going close to the wind (not the broadshoulder version) is it useful.

d. A tack line. This is the line that holds the tack - foward foot - to the bow fitting. At the bow fitting the tack line goes through a pulley and is tied on the bow cleat. As you go further off wind, the foot of the gennaker is let out further. This also means, and I have to figure out how I am going to do this, that the block that attaches to the bow plate should be forward of the forestay.

e. You can mount either one or two sheets - for cruising one seems adequate. The sheet is 1/4" line, and generally fixed to the sail permanently. The length should be 1 1/2 times the length of the boat.

Alternatively, you can mount two sheets. When you gibe with the gennaker, the sail passes around in front of the forestay. If you have two sheets, one is on mounted on either side. With two sheets, the length of eacy should be twice the length of the boat. The disadvantage expressed to me of having two sheets is that the extra line gets in the way.

f. Blocks for the sheet lines need to be mounted to the deck as far astern as possible . The conventional track blocks on the Ariel are not far enough astern.

g. I should have mentioned this earlier. The gennaker does not use a whisker/spinnaker pole as a spinnaker does, and that is why it is so relatively easy to mount for sailors that don't have the young, strong and fit crew.

One other tidbit I picked up. This was from Sobstad Sails out of Cleveland. The guy in charge is an old Ariel sailor and he says there are several of them out there. In his day there was a racing fleet of 28 boats, and it is down to perhaps a dozen Ariel/Commanders as I recall he told me.

For those of you that frequently sail on just the large genoa, with no mainsail, he commented that the design of the Ariel, with it's long keel is built for that. A single foresail is how it sails best when some sail needs to be dropped. He went on saying it looks wierd, and others may think you don't know what you are doing, but that is the way the Ariel/Commander sails best.

This has been my experience as well, but no one else seems to do it so I stopped doing it. Now I know there is a reason, and a good one.

[Theis]

You keep your boat looking pretty bright. It looks nice.

Thanks for the comments. I don't have the stern rail so perhaps I can put mine back a few more inches. Geometrically, you are dead on - the angle changes so insignificantly by moving it back a bit that, hey, who cares.

I'll let you know what I do - because, obviously it is necessary to meditate on such a profound issue seemingly for an infinite duration before drilling that first hole and wondering if you are making the ultimate mistake.

Thanks again.