Winch Handles--Ariel #39

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

Huh

Thought I registered as Jerryo when the forum re-opened. Oh well. I'm still looking for winch handles for ariel #39. Bill and Al had some leads for me, but I lost them when the old forum went away. The new forum is great, btw.

[Theis]

I think a lot of us have been looking for winch handles for the
#1 and #2 southcoast winches, largely without success.

Maybe we could get someone, like the successor to South Coast (I think that is Racelite) to mak up a batch of a half dozen or so or each.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

Are you volunteering to organize this? :)

[Bill]

Hey guys, local nautical flea markets often have someone trying to sell those old winch handles. I've mentioned Flower in Alameda, CA. Gotta be more like him around other yachting locations.

[Theis]

I have been in touch with the company that has manufacturing rights and they are not interested in either making them to stock, or for order as ones and twos. I don't know what their required volume is, but don't believe it is much. i would be willing to contact them again, (or Bill, perhaps you would be more appropriate) and see if they would be interested, and how many would be involved to make it worth their while.

However, before we start, my thought is that we need some idea of how many would be interested in the #1 and #2 handles. That would be my suggested starting off point. Perhaps Bill could mention it in the Newsletter to test the water.

Bill's comment is good, but I have not been able to locate any #1 South Coast handles. Everyone I speak to tells me they are impossible to find, so there must be a demand outside of Ariel owners. I bought a #1 Merriman last year from John Flower, who was very helpful. It had to be ground down to fit, which John and I both knew, but that was the closest he could come. However, apparently the reduction in bar size so that it would fit was sufficient to weaken the handle so that the bar broke after a couple uses. Looking at the handle closer, it was, before the grinding, weaker in the bar than the South Coast handle. So now I have paid for a winch handle, paid a pretty piece to have it re welded, and when I return to the boat, don't think it will fit with the weld, nd even then don't kow if it will break again.

In summary, the concensus is that there should be a handle in a seconds place somewhere. We all agree on that proposition. My shopping has led me to conclude that somewhere is nowhere. Is there any way the South Cast handles could be located using the web? Bill, how often does this issue come up in a year?

Peter

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

I'm not sure what winches I have--I don't see any identifying marks on them. The main halyard winch is smaller than the 2 for the genoa, and I'm reasonably sure they're original. The handles were a locking bayonette style. I wouldn't mind buying a few extra--depending of course on price. I have had no luck searching the web, but I may not be looking in the right places and as I said, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for. I'd hate to replace the winches, but I suppose that's one possibility.

[Bill]

Measure the width of the opening through which the handle slides. About an inch and it's a #1. About two inches and it's a #2. Not sure beyond that.

[Ken]

I was just on E-bay today 1-26-02 and found someone selling a winch hande that you might be interested in. Go to ebay web site, sports, boating and type "winch handle" in search and it will find. Below is the description but you can't see the photo unless you get on the web site. Auction ends today 1/26 but can be bought now for $45.00

Ken


Chrome bronze winch handle
Item # 1504418702



Antiques & Art:Antiques:Maritime
Sports:Sporting Goods:Boating & Water Sports:Gear & Accessories:Other Accessories





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Description


This winch handle is in beautiful condition. It measures 11 1/4" long, 1 1/2" wide, 5/16" thick where it inserts into the winch. The grip is 4" tall and is made of wood. It weighs 2 1/2 lbs., and will be shipped from zip code 33461.



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[Bill]

Those are the dimensions of the #2 winch handle and should work fine.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

Yes,
I measured the openings last year, it should work. My memory is a bit fuzzy, I thought mine might have looked a little different. It's better looking than the piece of bar stock we are currently using.
Thanks for the tip, I have a bid in.

My embarresment at dropping it in the water is tempered by the fact that my partner dropped the handle for the halyard winch the previous year. Still looking for the smaller handle, and perhaps even spares (both sizes) if they're available. I'm also still interested in finding out what it would cost to get some made.

Thanks again for the tip. I check ebay from time to time, but not often enough apparently.

[Bill]

It was asked how often the subject of replacement winch handles comes up on the board. Not often, but the subject does appear now and then after someone drops a handle overboard :) These occurances seem to be declining as people upgrade their winches.

If someone wanted to take on the project of reproducing winch handles, I'm sure he/she would find a market. Take the original handles to a forge and see what they say. Note that the release button and the axel for the handle on the handle are seperate from the main casting.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

Well...

I lost the auction for the winch handle. After looking at it again I was certain it was the correct handle. Here's a picture, and thanks again for the tip Ken.

[Theis]

I'll contact my favorite maritime forge and see if this interests them and the price. Stay tuned. It might be nothing, but then again .....

[Al Lorman]

Now that I'm selling my boat, I think I can safely sell the two spares I have. I have one each of two different sizes (which I haven't yet measured). One fits the coach top winch, and the other, larger handle was probably for primary winches which were replaced by Lewmars. I'm open to suggestions as to fair prices.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

Al,

I have no idea what a fair price is. I bid $40.00 (and lost) on the handle pictured in this thread. I need the pictured handle and a smaller one for the halyard winch.

Jerry

[Bill]

The local flea market guy here gets $50 for the #2. Not sure about the smaller #1 as they seem to be in very short supply and could be even more expenseive. Theis might know since he negotiated for a #1 with John Flower.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

Theis,

Do you have a picutre of the #1 handle?

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

BTW... When I bid on the handle on Ebay I asked the seller if he knew what winch it was for. He said he didn't know, but that it fit a Merriman perfectly. I was certain from the dimensions and picture that this was my winch handle, but now I'm uncertain. Are the Southcoast and Merriman that similar? How about other winches of that vintage?

[Theis]

I have a Xerox copy of various angles of the #1, but don't have a photo. Perhaps I should take one. I have not had luck converting the xerographic image to jpg., but then perhaps I should try again and use more patience and skill. I will do that, and if it doesn't, I can send you a set of images.

As to the difference between the South Coast and the Merriman, they are significant, but not obvious differences. The Merriman is a bit wider and thicker than the SC. It can be ground down and will fit the SC winch and looks perfect.

The problem is that the center slot of the Merriman, where the latch is, is alsao wider than the SC. Thus, when ground down, the Merriman is weakened, the two bars astride the latch are not strong enough. At least in my case, the bar, whene it goes through the slot, broke alongside the latch after a couple uses. This winter I had it welded, but have little confidence that welding will solve the problem.

Peter Theis

[Theis]

This is what the # 1 winch handle looks like

[Bill]

The #1 handle has the same shape as the #2, only smaller. Peter, I don't recognize the handle in your photo.:confused:

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

That is most certainly NOT my winch handle. I think I found the smaller one, still looking for the larger handle.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

This is the 9" handle I got on ebay. Still waiting for delivery. Lost the auction for the 11" handle.

[Theis]

Gentlemen:

My apologies for that photo, nd the humongous size. I thought I had deleted it.. The scan is good, but my editor does some wonders of nature. I can resize the photo so it is appropriately sized, save as a jpg, and out comes this wall sized photo, a multiple of the actual size that was scanned.

I'll try again to perfect this art.

However, it does show the problem with the handle you purchased, which is the same problem I had (You may have purchased a Merriman handle.)

With the South Coast, the bar that goes inside the winch top is narrower than the handle itself. In all liklihood, you will have to grind down the bar so it will fit in the winch top. Once you do that, the bar is significantly enough weakened so that it will not support tightening up the jib halyard without breaking.

I will try to post a better picture - top view - showing what I am referencing.

Sorry again about the wall sized picture. I probably should not have admitted it was oversized, but simply said it takes two people to carry it forward and we really get the jib halyard tight using it.

Peter

[Al Lorman]

I have one of each available. If I can find them, I will measure them tonight to make sure that they match the sizes mentioned above, and then post them for sale.

[Theis]

Interesting, and in light of Bill's comment, it makes me wonder what I do have.

In your picture, it appears the #1 has the same width bar that goes throught the winch top as the body of the handle itself. Mine is not that way. Perhaps I don't have an original issue after all.

Now I'll have to figure out a way to get the image on to this sit, from a top or bottom view, so I can hear a unaminous chorus asking "What is that?" (It does work though)

Peter

[Theis]

I believe you.

Question #1: did you replace your #1 jib winch with a locking winch, do you use a wire winch with a cleat, or just a cleat.

Question #2: So did I hear you say you would sell me that #1 winch handle that is just laying around on your bed?

Peter

[Theis]

I exchanged my South Coasts for Lewmars, for the sheets only. I still have the South coast for the jib halyard. What did you do for that? A wire drum with a cleat? a locking winch?

Did you replace the wood blocks under your winches? They don't show the cracks that I have. Or did you just fill the cracks in with something - like what?

Peter

[S.Airing]

I have a Harken #6 on the mast for the genoa halyard.sorrry no pictures. I did replace alot of the wooden mounting blocks about 9 years ago or so,not that big of a deal.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

So...did anyone end up with a spare south coast #2 handle in all this? I'm still looking for one.

[S.Airing]

After all this,my advise is don`t waste the money on winch handles for way under sized and out dated winches.Pluse anyone that has them wont sell them .Spend the money on proper sized and better winches.

[Bill]

Steve has a point. If you can afford it, new winches are the way to go. Standardized handles fit all!

Check out Defender Industries trade-in program for Lewmar. I purchased two 16st's for a very resonable cost -- and they didn't really want my old winches:)

[Theis]

I just received a quote for the #1 winch handle to be specially cast for about $100, and for the #2 a little bit more than that. Certainly that price is a lot less expensive than a new winch, and also avoids the problem of installing a new winch.

At that price, could anybody get back to me if you are interested. I need to know what the real level of interest is at that price. Bill, could you put it on the tom tom in the next Ariel Newsletter to see how much interest there might be?

Peter

[S.Airing]

I would look at the long term,what are you going to do the next time the handle goes over the side,and dont think it wont happen.

[Bill]

I agree. And, you can get new handles that float!

[Theis]

I've had the memorable experience of having a floating handle go overboard and I know just what to do. You keep going. By the time it would take to drop sails and turn around, the winch handle is lost somewhere out in the deep blue only to "resurface" when it washes up on shore. A better alternative is a spare handle, in my opinion. Besides, I have better projects for this spring than replacing a winch on the mast - and as for long term, I am only looking ten to twenty years out, so the long term is not that relevant.

Peter

[S.Airing]

If you plan on having handles made you might want to go to the Trition web site and see if others might want some,if you got enough maybe the price would be lower.

[Al Lorman]

I have finally located the box with my spare winch handles. I have one each of #1 and #2. Since it will cost over $200 to have new ones cast, I'll sell the pair for $150, plus shipping. If that's an unfair price, let me know. I can be reached at ajlorman@aol.com.

[S.Airing]

Here is my Harken#6 on the mast.

[Ken]

Just saw the following on Ebay today:


Ken (Ariel #399)
Tampa Bay, Fl


OLD STYLE SOUTH COAST WINCH HANDLE ~ USED
Item # 1812489951



Sports:Sporting Goods:Boating & Water Sports:Other Items
Sports:Sporting Goods:Boating & Water Sports:Boats, Watercraft:Sailboats




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Description


SOUTH COAST WINCH HANDLE
You need a spare!

This beautiful old style winch handle is hard to find, especially in this condition, as it's no longer manufactured. This one is in excellent condition, works perfectly and has an unbelievably good polish, showing little wear on the chrome over bronze, except on the shank. This may be your chance to get a great winch handle at a great price. Length is 14 1/2" overall, Shank is 1 3/4" wide. Teak handle.


:>:cool:

[Brenda Kelliher]

I have almost succeeded in removing one bronze winch - have to drill out the 6 bronze screws in the base-plate - there seem to be rusted steel nuts on the bolts underneath - a pain!

The other winch ( the pair have #1 and trident symbol - Merriman? on top)

I cannot shift the flat screw - about 1 1/4 inches across - on the top of the winch to prise off the top plate, ease up the drum, and get at the bolts securing the winch through the fiberglass ....tried WD40, tapping with hammer and broad screwdriver - ( tried all directions, as those old winches went different ways on port, or on starboard )

I am replaing the winches with larger 2-speed Barlow ... I singlehand here on the Severn River near Annapolis ...and the original winches are simply too small for my need


Any ideas on how to open the top of the winch :o

and/or does anyone want these winches - plus the accompanying handle ???


Brenda

[c_amos]

How many wench handles of what type are needed?


I know a guy who is a great machinest, who could make some up (the originals are cast, so these would not be exactly the same but they would work).

Post if you would be interested (which ones, and how many).
Price should be very reasonable.

THanks

[Brenda Kelliher]

I am trying to open the top of the winch so I can disassemble and drill out the 6 bronze screws that hold the winch base on the fiberglass mount ...
have found a tip on a Pearson resorer site that the end of the actual handle is designed to fit the open screw on top of the winch - makes sense! will try tomorrow ...

I have a handle to fit these winches ...

I am replacing these winches and handle - therefore they are available if someone is looking to restore with original brinze winches, for Ariel, Ensign - possibly also the electra ...

Brenda

[Bill]

Yes, the tip end of the winch handle is the "screwdriver" for twisting the large machine screw holding the durm to the base of the winch. Down pressure and a counter clockwise twist should remove it easily. A #1 handle should move the screw in a #2 winch, but obviously not the other way areou. Primaries on Ariel and Commander yachts were #2 South Coast or Merriman winches.

[Theis]

Using the handle as the "screwdriver" in the slot in the bolt holding the drum on, I had to use a wrench gripping the bar of the winch handle to break the bolt loose. Use of the handle to twist should not be recommended if it the bolt doesn't come easily because the handle can twist. Putting the wrench low, near the "blade" of the screwdriver handle, keeps the handle from twisting

[Brenda Kelliher]

I tried again today after applying plenty of 3 in 1, I far prefer to WD 40)

Thank you for the clue on how you opened the winch .... gorgeous day today on the chesapeake

Discovered the handle end will not fit into the slot in the large screw - though it looks like an original handle -

I will try a deck key ( like for diesel filler cap) next weekend ... hate to think of the job of drilling out the central hard bronze screw ...

anyway - in frustration cleaned and oiled the other winch and reassembled it ... can reopen and grease properly in 2 minutes ...

lo and behold, both winches work now - but correspondents are right - these #1 winches are way too small for the genoa ... I have sailed on old S&S's of the early sixties - and they had far bigger winches ...

and the base-fitting handles gouge against the mahogany coaming ..

thank you for the advice!!!

Brenda

[Mike Goodwin]

Forget WD-40 or 3in1 oil , get some PB Blaster . The WD in WD-40 means 'water displacement' that is what it was made for and what it is good at doing ( ever wonder what WD-39 was like? ) . Not really a good lube or freeing agent compared to the real thing like Blaster.
Blaster will loosen muffler and manifold bolts , frozen turnbuckles . Just apply it a couple of times 10 minutes aparts , give it a light tap and turn . Very amazing stuff . All good auto parts stores carry it .

[frank durant]

Brenda..I always liked those old style winchs where the handle slides into the base.Nastalgic I guess. ...Mike..I didn't know the 'WD' bit..thanks .Gotta try BLASTER out.I've got a 'rusted tight chuck' on one of my drills,so it'll be a good test.

[Jerry O'Sullivan]

...what a great boat it was. I had trouble getting those big screws to stay IN the winches. I'm pretty sure the winch handle fit the slot, and could be used to tighten the screw. And if I wanted to disassemble corroded metal parts without a torch, I'd stat with blaster :)

[c_amos]

Pair of South Coast winches on E-Bay, with handle

Title says South Coast 26's (!) but I doubt that is right. measurements listed in the add seem to be right about the same as ours.

Link to Southcoast winches on Ebay Item number: 250000294413 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SOUTH-COAST-26-CHROME-BRONZE-WINCH-PAIR-W-HANDLE_W0QQitemZ250000294413QQihZ015QQcategoryZ312 81QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

http://i3.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/38/56/42_12.JPG

[Gravey]

I lost my #2 winch handle last week. I believe the winches and handles are original equipment--not chrome plated, but plain bronze. The handle had an ivory-colored plastic grip. Any recent news on possible replacements would be appreciated.

[Bill]

I lost my #2 winch handle last week. I believe the winches and handles are original equipment--not chrome plated, but plain bronze. The handle had an ivory-colored plastic grip. Any recent news on possible replacements would be appreciated.

Local marine flea markets seem to always have several of the old winch handles. At least around here (SF Bay). There's a flea market coming up on Sept 9, put on by our yacht club. They do it again in April. Several other yc's also hold them throughout the year. Check your area for possibilities.

[Theis]

I have fully operative bronze South Coast #2 winches and winch handles. If that is what you are looking for, let me know.

[Gravey]

Theis,
If you have a #2 winch handle for sale, I would be very interested in making a deal with with you.

[SkipperJer]

I'm also looking for spares for #1 and #2 after two close shaves this season. Nautical flea markets in the Baltimore area have turned up nothing. I missed the auction on E-Bay. Bill, I'd be willing to compensate someone in the S. F. area if they really do show up there fairly often. Put me in touch with someone by private e-mail if you'd like.

[bill@ariel231]

skipperjer

If you strike out on the west coast, recommend you contact Sam @ wickford marine consigment 401-295-9709. When I was there last week I saw a whole pile of flat style winch handles. If you call with the dimensions & depth of the slot he may have a match...

http://www.marineconsignment.com/

cheers,
bill@ariel231

[c_amos]

So, the time has finally come.

Faith has shed her winches...... :(

I am getting ready to mount the Lewmar Ocean 16 self tailers that I bought last year.

I need some winch handles. I like the new Lewmar 'One Touch' handles (http://shop.sailnet.com/product_info.php/products_id/33547)that have a bar under the bottom that allow easy release from the winch.
http://shop.sailnet.com/images/2914_0044.jpg


I think the reason I like them so much is that thier 'new' idea is the same one that South Coast had over 40 years ago. :) http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10014/Wenchposq2.jpg


I have a problem. I want to see these go to another Ariel. Just the handles can sell on Ebay for almost as much as I paid for the replacement winches. :eek:

So, if anyone is interestred in a swap... a pair of the Lewmar handles above, for a pair of the South Coast winch handles pictured... please let me know.

Oh yea, and with the handles I can toss in a pair of South Coast winches, Winch mount blocks (need some work) and the original handle mount brackets in the picture below.

http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10014/Wenchposq1.jpg


Please PM me if interested.

[c_amos]

.... or (of course) Commander... :)