Season Prep for Water Tank

[Theis]

Does anyone have words of wisdom for what should be done to make sure water in the manufacturer issue water tank is good at the beginning of the season?

I have been putting in a half cup of Chlorox into a full water tank and letting it sit for a couple days. Too much Chlorox? Too little? Too long? It is difficult to boil the water while in the water tank, I have found. Suggestions? Secrets? Will I die this year a few minutes after my first Bourbon and water?

[Al Lorman]

Here's a link to Peggy Hall's instructions on flushing a water system. She seems to be the guru on this subject.

http://archive.sailboatowners.com/archive/archiverview.tpl?rid=2003006080456.48&forumabr=as&fno=441&&_ptitle=ptitle%20rtitle&&model=none&forum=none&andor=wo&keyword=water%20system%20flush&pr=p,r&ssite=SBO&srt=pdate&start=4&max=20

[ebb]

You (we) are already way beyond the EPA's safe limits for chlorine ingesting. It is all our paper products in the bathroom and kitchen and work place - it even leaches out of the milk carton into the milk. It's in our clothes against the skin. We've learned that derivitive (chlorine-driven) chemicals leach out of everyday plastics into our systems. Chlorine reacts with other fibers to form one of the most dangerous toxins ever created by the chemical industry: dioxin. You and I cannot get away from that one. Chlorine is that same baby epoxy is made from, and bleach does the same damage to our immune system when we drink the stuff. Even In The Smallest Quantities. Because we are already contaminated. Even the EPA says so, which means it's bad. It's a bad problem, folks. It is Dupont Dow's most lovable chemical ingredient of all time.

Chlorine will screw up the body's ability to heal itself because it enters into our system by mimicing hormones. It is responsible for all the horrible, ie, real bad, cancers and abnormalities we get in our mid-sections and our brains. Male and Female

I wonder if a salt or alcohol (Bourbon) solution with pure water would be a safer flush for the tank?

[Al Lorman]

The preferred alcoholic beverage for flushing water systems is vodka, not bourbon.

[ebb]

Probably the best way to clean a tank is to blast it with extremely hot water. This will kill most bacteria.

An alternative, IMCO, is to wash it out with a solution of baking soda (base) and then with a solution of vinegar (acid.)

Do this a couple more times: base/acid flush and you'ld have a naturally cleaned tank with no damage to you or the environment.

Hot water probably is the most ethical.

[Bill]

I like the vodka fix. Maybe just leave it in there all the time :p

[Mike Goodwin]

Clorox must be neutralized or bacteria will grow in it's oily residue. Clorox is a base and must be countered with an acid , vinegar is the most benign of acids .
A sanitising solution of clorox and water is ; 1oz to the gallon of water . Any higher ratio is dangerous . Flush the tank with white vinegar after cloroxing to neutralize it .Grain alcohol is the usual additive to water tanks .

[Bill]

More vodka?

[ebb]

Two cups of vo... er
chlorine in a 16 gallon water tank sounds too extreme! Maybe the waste tank...

[Theis]

This is very interesting. But to fill a 20 gallon tank with vodka makes the water tank worth almost more than the boat (certainly worth more than the skipper of such a party boat).

The comments about Chlorine are particularly interesting - and Mike's opinion appears to contradict Peggy Hall' insight. My recollection is that Mike is closer, but why is the quantity of Chlorine so important, if it is to be flushed before the real water is to be pumped in? Why is the length of time as Ms. Hall stated relevant? Does the Chlorine in the municipal water system, when it is put in the tank do anything?

What raised the flag on this issue originally was my concern and understanding that Chlorine can combine with certain growths and become particularly lethal, as EBB noted. I was also concerned that whatever growth there is in the tank could be loosened by the Chlorine and become part of the water that I am enjoying with my Bourbon. Lastly, I had concerns that the Chlorine could react with the metal, particularly the galvanized steel tank (although there may be the same problem with SS), and loosen or combine with the lead/tin or other heavy metal and make a really nasty cocktail.

I still drink the stuff in limited quantities but don't feel so good right now and don't know if I will make it through to the end of.....

[ebb]

Poisonally, I would take steps to replace a galvanised drinking water tank with something more neutral. We humans need zinc and iron and other minerals in our diet but they must come from vegetable and/or animal sources. Currently, mineral iron is frowned upon, especially for guys.

You point out that probably not all the growths in the corners of a tank will be flushed out. You may have residual chlorine captured there. Chlorine reaction with tank metal surfaces sounds very valid to me also. I wouldn't discount any possible leaching action or chemical reaction by chlorine. Nor the plastic jug it is sold in. What is created by chlorine can be undone by chlorine. I wouldn't use chlorine even to sanitise a plastic tank!

Other sailors, I read, who have second thoughts about using tank water will limit its use to washing up and carry bottled water to drink. Let's not get started on what's in bottled water!

We have good reasons to fill tanks with edible non-chlorinated water - and to filter the hell out of it befor putting it in your body.

A water tank should have large, easy to access, easy to use cleanout ports that will make maunal washing of the interior easy to do. Using baking soda with a white vinegar back is the best way to go!

Chlorine isn't the convenient solution it used to be. It never was!

[Theis]

I was just joking on my last input. I haven't really died yet.

The baking soda and vinegar routine sounds like a reasonable alternative. As I recall the tank is a 20 gal tank. How much baking soda? How much vinegar? Any ideas? For how long?

Incicentally, I assume we are talking about flushing the system with these chemicals and then putting in regular city/marina potable water. Correct?

The heating idea could be done if a large enough heating element could be found to insert in the hole - but that may present other problems, or maybe not.

What about water purification tablets such as the Iodine tablets.

[ebb]

That's the whole thing isn't it, the conveniences we accept. Like putting 'contaminated' water into the tank we're going to drink from later. For the water department chlorine is merely a convenient system to deliver a Product for a Profit that looks good and is reasonably free of pathogens. So it's convenient to think the chlorine will disapate befor it gets to our throat. There are already delivery systems using ozone - but people are too brainwashed to insist on it.

We better run it thru a Brita first. You and I can't Buy the propaganda that chlorine is ok to ingest. It's not ok to forget about it. If it kills germs it will kill US. A plus B = C. Water with chlorine in it is Not potable!

As an example of convenience we insist on: women have a problem with the pure white bleached tampons some use. Toxic shock syndrone, wasn't it called? (Colatteral Damage, says doopont)) Some died, didn't they, for convenience's sake? Here we all are with compromised immune systems - you trust them, my friend?

But, my daughter tells me, even the alternative health orientated companies have not come up with a marketable tampon (they can make them safe) because only a pure white sterile looking product will sell. And I guess no ad company thinks they can sell a off-white product to the ladies.

That crystal clear fluid we put in our tanks is the same color as carbontetrachloride. Looks good enuf to drink. CHEERS:eek:

[Mike Goodwin]

1-Put 2 gal. of water and 2 lbs of baking soda in the tank.
2-Sail hard for 4 hours with lots of pounding to weather on both tacks crossing large tugboat wakes whenever possible.
3-Return to dock and drain tank, flush with fresh water .
4-Add 2 gals of white vinegar ( no Balsamic, Ebb )to empty tank and repeat step 2 & 3.

This makes cleaning fun and a chance to have a drink or 2 if you are so inclined .

[Theis]

Mike:

Is that what you and others do or is it theory? If that is well founded, that is what I will do, but its work doing all that pumping/filling/pumping/sailing - 6 to 9 times the tank has to be emptied.

Incidentally, EBB, on an environmental note, I live in an area that could be the poster child for urban sprawl, but most of us live on well water. The municipalities also use well water. A friend of mine just related how he purified his well (he has allergies) by putting Chlorine down the well as he was told to do by the well people. They contended that we have iron water and that there a lot of microbes that flourish on that type of water, or some nonsense like that.

Talk about terrorism. That really scares me that Mr. and Mrs. America are polluting our aquifer (there is no other source of water really) by pouring chemicals into the aquifier - and it is not regulated. Once in, it can't be gotten out, and waters in the aquifier travel miles over many years.

[Mike Goodwin]

I have a removable monel water tank , but I would do the shake and drain approach if my bow tank was usable. Just drain to the bilge and pump out with the big pump , that way you clean the bilge too!!

[Tony G]

Geez-I just took the tank out of 113, checked it for leaks, ground out the the funky blue 'resin' and tabbing in preparation for reinstallation. Mayby I'll just install a reverse osmosis, de-ionization unit, chase that with a little ozone and wash it all down with UV sterilization! Maybe just drinking the lake water would be better for me-giardia who?!
Theis, drinking the well water IS blind faith. Pay the hundred bucks to have a good independant lab test it for you. Folks not more than a couple of miles from here have ammonia levels over 8ppm! We don't really know what ALL is down there. Water from these wells tastes like blood(Fe) and chlorine flushing is common practice. Birth defects in this area are to me unusually frequent but within the norms or averages I've been told. It seems the real problem is that we are an agri-based economy around here and we don't want to entertain the idea that we did it to ourselves.
Ebb, they call us paranoid:confused:

[Theis]

News: I spoke with a sterilization engineer for one of the major drug companies yesterday and got the low down.

1. Forget Bicarbonate of Soda routine. It does nothing other than remove oders (the Arm and Hammer box confirms this - there is nothing on the directions about cleansing water or water holders). It is useful for swimming pools to adjust ph levels and for water containers only to remove odors.

2. If you have a galvanized tank, do NOT use Chlorox, as Chlorine will react with the with the Zinc. For stainless, Chlorox is OK. For drinking water is so little Chlorine in drinking water that it has no effect on the zinc. Although there is enough Chlorine in marina water to prevent those little puppies from causing anything, there is not enough to cleanse what exists, if anything.

3. If you want to use water, all you need to do is fill the tank with above 138 degrees F. So you could lug 160 lbs of boiling water down to the boat (20 gals) and put it into the tank and that would work, since there is no way the water would cool fast enough to not sterilize the tank.

4. BUT, there is nothing to worry about. There is nothing in the tank that is harmful. What is necessary for growth of little things is not there - even if there is rust. There is no light. There is no food. There is nothing for little critters or photosynthesis. You need not do anything, except perhaps flush it out. Don't worry about it.

5. He suggested a 40% solution of hydogen peroxide for those that are still concerned, but then admitted that unless you are an engineer for a pharmaceutical company, that would be no way you could get the stuff.

6. He went on to say that if you are still concerned, flush the tank and drop some iodine purification tablets in the water. That would have none of the drawbacks of chlorine, but do the job.

7. So with that in mind, I went to West and bought some Aqua tabs

In summary, concern about fuzzies or their microscopic relatives is much ado about nothing, and bicarb is useless.

[Theis]

The stuff I used (that I bought from West and is called Puriclean) is Sodium Dichloroiscyanurate 6% (It sounds terrible but hopefully works). I put 100 grams in the 20 gals of water, left it for 6 hours, pumped it out, and put two flushes, the third stayed.

My water tank is from the 1960s, and has never given anyone any problems. However, after 40 years, with everyone so uppety about their water, I figured it was about time I did a thorough cleansing. As you can tell from this dialog, there sure is no concensus on the proper course of action.