coamings

[Robin]

For the last two years I only did touchups on the varnished woodwork on my Ariel, Mischief. And this year it's showing, so...
I've never been able to get a really good finish sans sags on the coamings so I'd would like to take them off this year.
Has anyone done that? I've taken out all the screws I can see and they still seem pretty secure. I'm afraid to start chopping away at them in case there's something holding them in that I'm missing.
Thanks
Robin

[commanderpete]

If your coamings are attached like those in the Commander, there should be about four big screws on the inside of the cabin for each coaming.

These go in to the forward part of the coaming boards. Forgive me if you knew about these already.

I hope to take my boards off this winter and do them up nice.

In the past I've used varnish (too much work) and Cetol (rubs off too quick).

I'm thinking of trying Bristol Finish this time, its a two part mixture something like epoxy and costs a fortune. I hope its the magic bullet for this job.

[Robin]

Thanks for the answers guys.
I'll be out there this weekend pulling and prying.
I couldn't quite make out from the photo if you have the same blocks I have near the cabin--some of the screws go into those blocks. That might be what I have instead of the screws into the cabin like on the commander.
The previous owner used epifanes varnish and I've kept that up--it looks so good I can't resist. Besides I kind of like varnishing.
Robin

[Theis]

I used Epiphanes varnish and can't recommend it enough. It has been on now for 6 years and looks like new. I put on fifteen to 20 coats. If you go to the trouble of taking the coamings off, as far as I figure, put plenty of coats on so you are not faced with the problem of taking the coamings off for half a lifetime.

Epiphane is true spar varnish, not the poly varnish that cracks and peels off within three years - at least in the midwest. It is good stuff and I don't know if it can be beat.

[commanderpete]

I found out what you mean about the coamings being difficult to remove. I had to force a very thin paint scraper into the gap where the sealant was and move along inch by inch. They finally yielded to that and alot of strong language.

Here they are stripped and mostly sanded

[S.Airing]

Hey Commanderpete,they look as good as Sirocco`sI see you figured out how to post larger pictures.

[Robin]

Nice photos. I actually did some damage when I was getting mine off--the wood kind of splintered in a few places, but it won't show when they're back on. I've put on a coat of paste wood filler--so I can start varnishing any day now.

[Ken]

Looking for suggestions on replacing my very cracked and original winch pads. Has anyone had the honors of making new ones or having them made? Please let me know !!

Ken (hull# 399)
Tampa Bay, FL

[glissando]

Ken,

Consider the nice bronze winch stands made by Spartan Marine. You can get them at Defender (2002 catalog page 269). They look traditional, are heavily made, and are a nice improvement, in my opinion. See the photo.

Tim Lackey
Triton 381

[glissando]

Oops...I guess the photo was too large. Try again.

[S.Airing]

I had to redo my winch pads a few years back,they are just built up of tapered 1 or 1 1/2 inch pieces of wood.If I had to do it again I would go with the metal pads like on Glissando.The whole assembly comes apart,you need to replace the cracked wood,not just fill it in with something.

[Theis]

Another viewpoint:

My wood bases are cracked but I have not figured out any reason to replace them. They are held on by four long screws going through the cockpit coaming, and a bolt passing through the deck. I can't envision them coming off (knock on wood) and have not experienced any apparent weakness. I have Lewmar winches mounted on top of them.

However, what I have done is to load the splits with plenty of varnish (the first coats being thinned 3 parts of thinner to one part of varnish initally, then 1 to 1, then 3 varnish to one part thinner) to seal the wood where it is crecked so it doesn't rot. If the pedestals are rotten, then there is a different issue. Personally, I like the look of the wood.

[Ken]

Thanks for all the suggestions and input. Those bronze ones from Defender look like the way to go.

Ken

[John]

"The time has come, the Walrus Said,

I am about to remove my coamings on Valhalla. I don't know what to expect from reading the messages here, but I will know more after this weekend.

My assumption is that the base of the coamings are through-bolted and the aft bolts are going to be interesting to get at. Or is there hope??

John G.
Valhalla
Commander No 287

[Bill]

The coamings on our Ariell were fastened with wood screws that go into a stringer behind the bulkhead.

[commanderpete]

No bolts, only wood screws. The coamings will only be difficult to get off if some tenacious sealant was used on the backside.

Unfortunately, I've been getting some experience doing this job.

Last year, I removed the boards and refinished them with Bristol Finish. Turned out to be a disaster. After about three months the Bristol Finish began to fail. Imagine my dispair.

This year I took the boards off again. I stripped off the Bristol Finish and I'm going back to varnish. Epifanes is beautiful stuff.

When re-mounting the boards, you don't have to butter the back with sealant. You can just run a bead at the edge where it meets the deck.

However, I think some sealant on the back is a good idea to hold the boards on. I don't want the stress to be concentrated at the screw holes, possibly causing the wood to split.

I don't usually use silicone, but I might for this job because the grip is not too strong. The boards will pop off easier if I have to do this job again, hopefully not for a long time.

[John]

That sounds like good news. My coamings are due for some serious work, and I didn't want to damage either the coamings or the boat. I will take a nice slim spreader,however.

It went from 80 deg to 32 deg in 24 hrs here but I hear reports that spring may come one day this year.

[commanderpete]

I read about one trick to break the grip of the sealant. Get a guitar string and push it behind the coaming. Work the string up and down as you move along to break the seal.

I believe one of our Triton friends, Nathan or Tim, came up with this idea.

Using the paint scraper/putty knife was slow going. Bring several to act as wedges.

[John]

What a great idea. I think I may go looking for some thin wire at the hardware store. My guitar is long gone.

There is a small chance that the coamings are bedded with dolphinite. I am thinking I will use as it as it stays soft.

Are your coamings through bolted or screwed to a backing strip, as suggested earlier?

[dasein668]

That was Tim's idea... but I supplied him with the guitar string! :p

I nearly destroyed my coamings getting them off... They were installed just with screws and silicone and for something that's not supposed to stick very well, it sure held on tight! But I was planning to replace them anyway, so I wasn't too worried.

My new ones will just have some polysulfide at the screw holes, I think. Having installed them once already, I'm confident that the screws alone will hold them A-OK.

Nathan
dasein668.com

[John]

Most of the polysulphides are "low strength" adhesives, I think. I just want to bed it, not glue it on.

Ice must be out of the river up thayar in Gorum, I'd think.

[dasein668]

That's true. Something like 3M 101 is somewhat adhesive, but it's a pretty good sealant for screw holes, and I'm literally talking about a little dollup at each screw hole just to keep water out, not bedding the whole coaming. But one could certainly use something else for that purpose, as preferred. And if you are planning to bed the whole thing, definately use something else!

Yup. Ice is out. But we're still having that lovely "wait a minute" new england weather. Tuesday was 84 degrees, and I slept with the windows open. This morning I found my seedlings frozen solid and its about 35 or 40 with a stiff breeze blowing.... lovely. :rolleyes:

[John]

I have used Dolphinite, and both 3M and BoatLife seem to have good polysulphide products, so I'll find something. My fear is that water can collect on the outside seam and I have had problems keeping varnish along that outside seam. That's why I think a bead will be better than a dollop at the screw holes.

Being from away and all, I don't get all the local news from family. I was in Saco about 10 days agao and thought I read that the state has purchased additional land in the Pool at Biddeford. What'r they doin up ta Augusta???? That's not going to turn into a bird place is it???

The weather is not much better here on Cape Ann. I might as well go to Madawaska and check the snow there.:rolleyes:

[Theis]

A note here might be helpful. I used 101 polysulfide along the entire coaming. First, when there is spray and water on the deck, it keeps water from dripping from the deck on to the seat - a comfort issue, particularly if you are on the high side..

It also protects against water and ice becoming sandwiched between the fiberglass and the wood, and rotting the wood. It keeps that connection dry, in other words.

Lastly, this year I am refinishing my coamings (Epifanes again). With the polysulfide, I can remove the screws and the coaming stays in place while I refinish it. That is a real convenience.

[dasein668]

Theis: Good points about the water incursion. But, in my case, I'd rather remove the coamings and refinish them inside when necessary, so I don't want the coamings to stay in place without the screws! Just a matter of preference though. So I guess that might bring us back to just running a bead of silicone at the top edge. On the other hand, 10 to 12 coats of spar varnish probably will be sufficient to protect against rot for the minor amount of water that might get caught in there. Freezing over the winter would be more of a concern, I'm guessing. Hmmm. As usual, many issues to balance!

John: With the non-stop war coverage up here, I haven't heard much about the Biddeford Pool purchase--or anything else, for that matter! As far as Augusta goes, its tough to tell in advance what will really happen with any given administration. My grandfather is a long-time family friend of the new Gov, and has a very positive view.... time will tell!

Cheers all,

[Mike Goodwin]

Why not use the material designed for the application , bedding compound ? I'm pretty sure you can still buy Dolphinite bedding compound at a 'real' marine supply store. It comes in qt. or gallon cans and is a paste designed to do just what you are talking about and nothing more .

[Bill]

We've used a polysulfide bedding compound to create a bead along the edge where the boards and deck meet. Done it twice in the past 20 years. First time in 1978 we were replacing Dolfinite. The R&R in 1998 was easy and the boards came away with just a little help from a putty knife.

[John]

Well....Tomorrow the WX is supposed to be in the Mid-50's and sunny here on the Beautiful North Shore (of Boston). I will have more to report on tomorrow night, after the bunny work is done. Heh heh:D

It does help to spell correctly. Dolfinite, a product from Woolsey, is still available in pints and quarts. Interlux has a similar product, called Boatyard Bedding Compound, as well. Dolphinite is a bottom paint and wax company, in my back yard (Ipswich).

Dasein668: Hmmmm, my great-Uncle was president of the Maine Senate for a number or years. He didn't seem like a politician though. and he did have some interesting times. Are we linked by politics as well as sailboats??

John
Valhalla
Commander No 287

[John]

Saturday is almost over and the cover is off Valhalla! The coamings are still in place. I seem to have some recalcitrant No 16 x 3 in screws. The smaller one holding the winch stands and 3 holding the coamings do not want to move. I plan to attack with the largest screwdriver I have and also an old hand drill with a screwdriver bit. I have already twisted the head off one of the screws on the winch stand.

John
Valhalla
Commander No 287

[Hull376]

Try heating up the screws . Several quick passes over the head with a propane torch at lowest flame possible (and a fire extinguisher handy!) will soften the gunk and make it start to turn. I did this to remove both the coaming boards and the old winch pads. DO THIS CAREFULLY AND SAFELY. The big bronze bolt in the winch pad which goes through the deck was really stuck, but the heat made it move without messing up the slot. Replaced the wooden winch stands with the Spartan marine bronze castings from Defender that Tim suggested earlier in the post.

[John]

Kent,

Thanks for the tip. I might give that a try. I do have a very large screwdriver as well.

What did you replace the bronze screws with, stainless? I haven't guaged them but they appear to be about 16 x 3"

BTW, do you have a Commander? My winch stands are fiberglass and I have had the same problem with them that I have with the gellcoat on the topsides. It has alligatored and cracked. In several places I removed sections of the gelcoat and have filled the area, and then used a light gelcoat on top. The Spartan bronze stands look like a good replacement.

[ebb]

may I suggest you stick with bronze'
unless you want to advertise your fastening pattern
with shiney silver points of light.

[John]

The screws that are in there are plated bronze. I think chrome plated. There are also little cups to capture the heads of the screw and they seem to be stainless. I am looking for a source for this hardware. Have you found a good one??

John
Valhalla
Commander No 287

[ebb]

it's just that 338 has its coamings screwed with large (14s, 16s? maybe larger)plain unwashered bronze screws that are hard to notice. Looks original. Hell, after 40 years and umpteen coats of Cetol, any fastening would be hard to see. Yours might have been replaced in the past. Might look to see if they are actually bolts now. (That's probably what I would have done, as it allows you some control in bending the coamings in place.)

Finishing washers and screws come in brass, ss and bronze, ss at www.jamestowndistributors.com
Those large fat screws might be available by the piece online. You'ld never know that if you were ordering from their paper catalog.
Their phone order people are easy to talk with, my experience.

It's understandable that ss is used because it's available and a third the price of bronze.

[commanderpete]

I ordered these last year from Jamestown.

Silicon Bronze Wood Screw Flat head 14 X 2 1/2 inch ($1.35 each)

They didn't have bronze finish washers, so I used brass ones.

Over time, both the bronze and the brass will turn dark.

[Hull376]

I've got an Ariel, John. I considered making new winch pads, but looked like too much effort after making new coaming boards, hatch boards, traveler track, mast step, etc, etc, etc. The blocks that attach the coaming boards to the side of the cabin were the final straw. Could probably do them in my sleep now, but oh, the learning curve (and angles and angles and more angles. What was Pearson thinking?)

[John]

Kent,

There is only a 90 deg turn on a foward slant with top parallel to the deck. My coamings are built with a block cut to the angles to meet the house and the grain running up and down. Then there is a cap piece on top of the block. This assembly is bolted to the coaming and the holes plugged. Congradulations on remaking that piece.

John
Valhalla
Commander No 287

[Hull376]

John,

Here is the devil himself, taking the form of mahogany.

[Hull376]

The devil disappeared before I could post his picture. Got him again.

[mbd]

Wow Kent! I've been combing the coaming threads and came across this one. Nice work!

[Rico]

I spent most of this weekend disassembling my Commander... The coambings are off... Pheeww! And so are ALL the other bits that are not a part of the molded fiberglass... (Pictures soon)

I read about the recommended polysulfide bedding compounds. I am unfamiliar with these; does anyone swear by one of these products to use as a sealer for the coambings and/or also as a proper general bedding compound (if applicable)?

Thank you.

[ebb]

Man, that silver 'coaming block' is abso lutely GORGEOUS!
Amazing what they did with aluminum back then!;)

[commanderpete]

Life Calk and 3M 101 are pretty much the same thing, as far as I can tell.

Only problem is they both turn yellow over time.

3M 101 only comes in large tubes of white.

Life Calk is available in white, teak, mahogony, black and small tubes, if you need that

[Tim Mertinooke]

Make sure when you do bond the coamings with any type of caulk that you lightly tighted the bolts and allow the caulk to dry for at least a couple days (polysulfides dry very slowly.) Then once cured, tighten them up snug. This will prevent you from squeezing most of the caulk out initially and will make a nice gasket that will keep water out of the screw holes. I used the mahogany colored lifecalk (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2770&familyName=Boatlife+Life-Calk+)when I refurbished my brightwork and was very satisfied with its application ease and performance this past season.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/00002258.jpg

[Rico]

Thanks - I'll give lifeCalk a try...

Great Coambings Commanderpete - This is what I am after!!
I'll be needing quite a few tubes as I've removed EVERYTHING!

Thanks for the link Tim - AND the tip. Good insight...
How did you like the Mahogany color for the coambing joints vs the white?

[Tim Mertinooke]

I'd use the mahogany color again if I were to redo the brightwork. It blends in very well. Just be sure to clean up any that gets on the white deck. I had a small section that dripped out onto the white deck and it was obnoxious to remove. I wondered after I did it what it would look like if one were to take mahogany sawdust and sprinkle it over the wet uncured caulk whether or not it would make it blend even better. I suppose one could do a little experiment with the idea. Good product, but have the acetone and paper towels on hand.