Holding Tanks

[Sea Smoke]

I am considering putting Sea Smoke into a charter fleet in Rockland, ME for next summer. There are 3 things that I need to do to get her into compliance, 2 are easy and the 3rd seems to be more difficult. I need to update the Depth sounder, the rocks under the Penobscot Bay have a tendency to be hard! This isn't much trouble, it should be done pretty soon. I need to install a high volume bilge pump. Sea Smoke is quite dry, the current rotary bilge pump removes the little water that makes it's way into the bilge. If I am allowing others to use her, however, I think a Gusher or similar is in order. I plan to mount this in the Starboard cockpit locker, with the handle coming out just behind the bridgedeck. This should be operable for the cockpit or with a bit of leaning, from the cabin.
The stickler is updating the sanitation facilities. Sea Smoke currently has a marine head with a direct overboard discharge,. The coast Guard frowns on this, and if she is in charter, I'll need to bring her into compliance. Has anyone retrofitted their Ariel or Commander to meet current guidelines? Wher does on locate a Hholding tank, what size is appropriate, Y Valve installed, what kind of sewage pump etc., etc., etc. I look forward to hearing any ideas that this esteemed group might have. Fair Winds and Big Sheaves, Thomas Howe.

[Bill]

The smaller of the two West Marine portable toilets fits perfectly in place of the marine head. Ss holddown straps are available. The capacity is good for about three days. This option is a lot easier and less expensive than installing holding tanks.

Placement of holding tanks is problimatic. Too far aft and you affect the boats performance. One possibility is under one or both the maincabin bunks. Small, flexible tanks may work in these locations without cutting into the bunk.

One of our members in the Chesapeak Bay area added a holding tank some years back. Maybe he will share his experience.

[commanderpete]

Tom,

My Commander came with a marine head and holding tank. The tank is under the starboard V berth. I don't know if the Ariel has the same corresponding space. I'll try to get some pictures and post them.

To have this professionally done would be big bucks. You also have to run hoses up through the deck for a vent and pump out.

While its nice to have a proper marine head, it still causes me worry, despite the fact that the thru-hulls and sea cocks were replaced when the head was installed.

Sometimes I worry that I've forgotten to close the sea cocks when I leave the boat. If a hose lets go, the boat could sink at the dock.

More boats sink because of their plumbing than from storms and reefs, etc.

If you have the option, I would go with the porta-pottie and seal up those thru-hulls, especially if someone else is going to be sailing your boat.

I'll work on taking thos photos this weekend.

Regards,

Peter (still sailing in December in NY)

[Sea Smoke]

I've considered the Porta Potti, but the boat may be out for several days at a time, and the idea of sleeping in the V-Berth with 5 days of waste lurking just below makes me a little shy. Also, I'm not sure that the person who will be managing the boat would be pleased with the prospect of dealing with the emptying tasks. I know that to have a proper system installed might run some dough, but I plan to keep this boat for q while, and the benefits of having it done correctly might outweigh the downside.
Anyway, I appreciate the comments and hope for more input. Still sailing in Kansas,(60 degrees predicted for this weekend!), Thomas Howe.

[Brent]

Someone on the Pearson list on Sailnet mentioned this article recently, http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/phall.htm
It is probably the best and most detailed I've read about how a marine head and holding tank should be installed and the pitfalls to avoid.

This winter, I'll be ripping out the head that came with #66, sealing the thru-hulls and buying a porta-potti. I agree with commanderpete; having holes beneath the water line--for any reason--just makes me too nervous. Besides, porta-potti's are much less expensive :)

[Dan Maliszewski]

I have to agree with Bill and Brent on the portapotty. Two years ago I replaced the head on Adele M with the smaller West Marine unit and never looked back.

PS Hello, Bill. I finally got registered. If any questions on my 18 oz. vinyl winter cover, fire away.

[bkeegel2]

I too Have gone the Porta-Pottie route, but I have just put caps on the thru-hulls. For those of you who have removed them, what did you go through? How much glass and reinforcing is involved? Is it worth the effort?

[Bill]

It was easy to remove and fill the holes . . . I had the yard do it :D

[bkeegel2]

Bill,

That may be the route to go. How many hours did the yard wind up charging you for? Was the materials cost significant?

[Bill]

The holes were filled about four years ago. At the time, the yard was quoting $80 per hole:>

[commanderpete]

$80 a hole sounds reasonable to me. I've never done this, but I read somewhere how to do it right.

If I remember correctly, you put a waxed flexible backing on the outside. The fiberglass around the inside of the hole has to be beveled back quite severely. You then fill the hole from the inside with gradually larger circles of cloth.

I could look this up if you want to tackle the project.

In the meantime I'm trying to figure out how to get this new scanner I bought to work so I can post some pictures.

[bkeegel2]

Pete,

Thanks for the offer, but I think I have a procedure similar to the one you spoke about. t looks like a lot of work. I think I'll keep that project on the list for another year or so, and then decide if I want to fork over the $$ or appply the elbow grease. I've got enough on my plate for now, I'm sewing new cabin cushions and replacing the windows this winter, painting the deck (again) this spring. These projects will keep me occupied for now. I'll let everyone know how the hole job goes if I do it myself.

I have a great book for these types of projects called "This Old Boat" that tells you how to do just about anything you might want to undertake yourself on your fiberglass boat. It is fantastic at sitting on my bookshelf and making me feel guilty when I eschew an improvement project to take a daysail.:)

[commanderpete]

OK, here are some photos of my holding tank set-up under the V-berth, with the cushion and cover removed.

[commanderpete]

Let me try that again

[commanderpete]

Here's another (I hope)

[Theis]

I'll relate a different regimen. A Porta-Pottie was used to replace the original Raritan toilet, and I got rid of it. I was not wowed by the concept of that stuff floating under everything, and the problem getting it out (there was no hosing to the deck). Worse, I feared a spill in high seas.

My Ariel has an outboard, so if yours does also, this might be an alternative. I do long cruises and the holding tank is a concern. I put a 13 gallon holding tank under the cockpit floor, essentially pressed up against the rudder post, sandwiched between the two cockpit lasarette peg boards and mounted so it was level.

For a toilet I used a macerator toilet for these reasons: Flushing takes less water; the smaller 1" hose is easier to get through from the front to the rear of the boat (it bends); and the space is essentially otherwise unusable .

The breather tube goes into the engine well - as high up as you can get it, and on the side opposite side holding tank breather fitting. The pump out is aft, just forward of the end of the lifeline on the port side. The input is the original Ariel input. The original output has been capped.

I placed an anti-siphon fitting just ahead of the tank, between the tank and the toilet, and also one on the input line. This latter is mandatory (and the former one may be also)

I was concerned about the weight of a full tank (13X 8#/gal = ca. 104 lbs when full) being that far aft, but have not had any real problem. In fact, when the hull is only slightly noticeable rocking backward, that is my guage that a pump out station should be the next destination.

[commanderpete]

That's a brilliant solution.

Who needs the tank underneath a bunk, or those ugly hoses running up to the deck. Besides, if the hoses run up from underneath a bunk, you will need cushions cut to fit around them.