Adjustable Backstay

[Ed Ekers]

I am looking to rig an adjustable backstay on Pathfinder. Is there anyone who contributes to this board that has changed the rigging to accommodate this change. I currently have an adjustable turn buckle which works fine, but I would like to be able to adjust the backstay tension while on the run without having to go to the stern and spend time cranking. Any ideas.........Thanks.........ed

[Bill]

Took photos of one adjustable backstay arrangement on our dock. I'm considering a similar arrangement for MAIKA'I. There is only one turnbuckle and it uses a low tech adjuster - block and tackle. My old boom vang will work just fine.

[Bill]

And the upper end . . .

[ebb]

Just asking here-
Wouldn't it be better to have the turnbuckle(s) on one or both sides off the plates?:confused:

[Bill]

Good question -- no good answer:) Saw both alternatives on other boats, but as I recall, some/all did not have adjusters. This weekend I'll try to get some more phots. (Removing the boom so we can have the rig shop replace the internal rope-to-wire outhaul halyard.)

[Bill]

Returning to the scene of the backstay adjusters Saturday, I found only one setup where there were two turnbuckles used. And, all but one of the single turnbuckle setups attached the turnbuckle ABOVE the split of backstay cable. The following posts are some examples (can?t seem to find the photos of two odd setups . . .)

[Bill]

Another single

[Bill]

And another single

[Bill]

Some more . .

[Bill]

Still more . . .

[Bill]

How about some hydrolics? Great way to adjust the backstay -- for a price!$! :)

[Bill]

This is an even more impressive hydrolic adjuster setup. Check the index . .

[Bill]

For our final offering, here is the backstay adjusting system on one of the flat out racing boats . .

[Bill]

Yeah, I can't figure it out either . . :D

[ebb]

Have to protest here. Ekers has gone too far to get back first place. This is too much of a remodel to an Ariel stern!

With a scupper like that: blondes, booze and backstays will all get washed overboard, if they doesn't get tangled up like that tiller has!

[Tony G]

Just a quick question here because I have not yet learned to fully appreciate the fine art of racing. How does one know how much tension is enough? In the first pic of the 6/29 additions there is a line attached to the split (what's that called) and to the block system so, I'm assuming, one couldn't get too crazy and over tension the backstay. I didn't see anything like that on the others. Further, some 'adjusters' appear to be eased all the way out and still have tension induced by the block system while some appear to have none. Is there an industry standard that is normally recognized and adhered to but just not comonly known or is it really a free for all?

[Bill]

Yes, the block system you referrred to is used to put tension on the backstay. There are several other ways to do the job, e.g., hydrolic cylinders, tensioning wheels and turnbuckes with handles. A split backstay offers a relatively inexpensive solution - if you have the split backstay, or if you are considering adding one for other reasons. In my case, the weakness of the backstay chainplate presents such an opportunity.

As for "how much" tenison, that is learned from experience or trial and error. In our case, about six complete tightening turns of the turnbuckle from the "normal" setting gets us close. The problem is trying to change the tension after leaving the dock. The second problem is rememberin to loosen the tension when we get back.
And, the third problem is remembering the best settings. Which is why you need to "index" the system for repeatability.

The backstay photos were all taken at the dock, so with the exception of the boats without adjusters, backstay tension should be minimal.

[Ed Ekers]

Tony,
The short line that you noticed is a safety line (wire). It is there in case the adjuster should give way. This wire is connected to the back stay (top) and most likely the rigging going to the chain plate at the hull (bottom) If this boat is an open ocean racer it is a required set up by rule.

As far as how much tension do you put on I offer my experience as a start. I have assisted a few others in rigging their boats setting up standing rigging. When we addressed the adjustable tension systems we would use the max load that would be placed on the weakest link. Often the head stay since it is a single wire and will tension as more back stay is applied.
After setting the mast up the way the owner wanted it in terms of pre bend or rake we would place a gauge on the head stay and tension the back stay with the adjuster. At the point that the head stay reaches appx. 75% of the recommend load we would call that full adjustment. Some sort of mark would be made somewhere so no more tension would be applied. Often we will use an old batten with numbers attached to the adjuster. Much like the one pictured with the hydraulic adjuster.

As far as what is left on at the dock most skippers will just back off all the tension to let the rig relax. Often this is forgotten until you walk away and look back and someone says "hey we forgot to let off the back stay". But with beers waiting at the club we will get it later (<; ....ed

[Bill]

Here is probably the least expensive of the backstay adjusters. It just replaces the turnbuckle. One handle is connected to the upper turnbuckle eye and the other to the turnbuckle body.

#1 with handles extended

[Bill]

Here it is with the handles closed.

#2

[Tony G]

Bill
Is that the backstay adjuster on Pathfinder by chance? It looks simple enough as to not suffer from technical difficulties. Wait a minute...isn't it normally choppy and rough out there in the bay? So who gets to make adjustments on the run, the most experienced crew member or the least?:p

[Scott Galloway]

Ed,

I have one of the the adjusters shown in the photos most recently posted by Bill on my Ariel, "Augustine" hull #330, in your own home town if you want to see one up close. My photo below is not a closeup. My adjuster is identical to that pictured in Bill's photos, except that I mounted mine higher to permit use of the adjuster after raising the mast with the tabernacle while underway after passing beneath the bridge. Previously, the original installation at deck level was awkward to access when the lazarette hatch was open for motor operation. At the height shown the the photo below, you can adjust the backstay while standing in the aft end of the cockpit. However, since the lower end of the adjuster is not fixed, I had to devise a wrench that holds the lower part of the unit and the lower section of the backstay so that it will not twist while the upper end of the device is tensioned. That wrench as made from a few Orchard Supply store hardware items.

[ebb]

Psssssst. Capt. Scott, hull # 338 over here!

Have you any photos you can post here of your mast
raising and lowering while under way drill ???

Would rerally like to understand how it is done, and what
needs to be gotten together befor 338 gets her upgraded rig rigged.


If you are ever entered in the Mast Raising Nationals, I would be
there to record the event!:D

[Scott Galloway]

Ebb,

Sorry Ebb. I don't have any photos of the tabernacle in operation, but next time I am sailing with a crew, I will take some photos. When single-handing, it would be a bit too much to steer, lower the mast, hold onto the mainsheet. and snap photos. I don't allow anyone forward of the cockpit while the operation is in progress. People can get hurt, and the foredeck is a mess of wire line and spars.

The operation is pretty simple actually. I break the backstay at the tensioning device, and attach the top end of the backstay to the end of the boom. I use the top of the backstay (from mast top to boom) and mainsheet (from boom to traveler) to lower the mast. You have to physically lift he boom by hand to get it started down. Boom guys on either side running from the upper shroud turnbuckle to the end of the boom in combination with a permanent section of my lifelines running from a deck fitting forward to the same upper shroud turnbuckle stabilize the boom laterally, and prevent the upper shroud from bending at the deck. What goes down comes up. It is important to have a boom vang, or so the theory goes. The further that you lower the mast, the heavier it is to lift. The forward hatch is the limiting factor. Of course it pays to have a long mainsheet. I use a four to one ratio mainsheet block set, but I also have a four to one /eight to one if I have need for it. Frankly the latter is overkill unless you are going very low. The extra line becomes problematic when sailing. One jibe downwind, and you have yards of spaghetti in the cockpit with which to deal. Therefore I customarily use the 4:1 block set. Garhauer is the way to go. Their stainless steel bearing blocks are practically frictionless.

[Bill]

Wow! It's been eight years since we last looked at this question. Maika'i is still waiting for her adjustable backstay, but at least we have some (Ebb designed) hardware to begin the process . . .

[ebb]

WOW! indeed!
and litlgull still waiting:( too.

The Alberg Interview thread of yours, Bill, that brings mast rake to light again -
brings this interesting subject up again.

Noticed, for instance - reading (since eight years!) Scott's last post here,
and Scott meticulous with keeping his up-to-date Augustine as original as possible
- that he has to LIFT the boom to get the lowering started on his mast.

That's interesting because I believe it means he has the mast set with an aft rake.
The mast tensioned for lowering but with loosened rigging doesn't just fall forward.

Ebb will never be lowering the mast on a run like them crazy SantaCruz sailors.
So having the mast at the start of the procedure in a stable condition
in a glass smooth location does
seem to make this scarey drill more plausable!