Dodgers anyone?

[Tony G]

It's still way too cold to so much as touch a power tool around here so I've been doing some perspectives and doodelingwith lines. I keep gravitating back to adding a dodger to 113, maybe even laminating a hard dodger that pops off for transport. How many of you out there have a dodger on your ariel and how do you like it? What are the strong points and what don't you like? When looking at the wonnerful pics of everyone's boats here(yes I download them all) it seems like the dodger gets miniaturized and I'm wondering if there's still enough room get through the companion way comfortably. I know there's some hotter issues burning on the board right now and I've plenty of time before we get to dodger manufacturing, but I'd really appreciate some 'real experince' info. What the heck, even if it's only your opinion and not your experience I'd still like your input.
Some thoughts I'm entertaining are incorporating the dodger into a larger canvas and screen 'room' that covers the cockpit for another cabin area when on the hook(land of 10,000 lakes, 10,000,000 mosquitos). Soft-top vs. hard-top. Maybe even raising the boom a couple of inches. Much, much more to be read before I do something that wacko! This boat will probably never race with me at the helm so I'm not so worried about that tack.
Tony G

[ebb]

Geoff's hard dodger, for example, does raise the question of windage in a blow and control of the Ariel - and that you'll probably loose it if you pitchpole or get swept by a comber. On other forums, everyone agrees that it's difficult to get a hard dodger to look good - but all experienced cruisers (except the masochists) agree they're necessary for the quality of life, a cruiser's life.

Aestheticly I'd agree that Ariel's look best with a pram style dodger where everything folds down. Maybe it looks more shippey because it is part of the rig rather than an extension of the designer's coachroof sculpture.

Instruments, including a centerline compass (Geoff - and me too) can be mounted on a molded dash over the forward end of the companionway. The hard dodger creates another room or covered porch where you can put things. It's a real solid grabbing point when you're standing in the cockpit or leaving and entering. And a place to rig a midboom travelor and the solar panels. Maybe the propane can be mounted on the seahood. and/or the inflatable. Theis has a gorgeous pram hood and flexible solar panel installation which in terms of weight saved alone could be thought of as ideal for voyaging.

I'm all ears...

[Bill]

Dear Tony--
We have had our dodger on Ariel 321 LADY J for about the last seven or so
years. No other feature on the boat has been as favorably received by
the First Mate as the dodger. It was fitted by the canvas people who
designed and installed it. There is plenty of room below the boom for it
to fit. When using the companion way, you do have to duck under it, but
it is not a tight squeeze. The boat has a solid vang, and the only
concern is to tieup the main sail cover so that it does not flap and
scrape the top of the dodger and thus wear through the fabric. This
dodger has a stainless steel frame to which the cloth dodger is attached
using large-sized plastic zippers to give a nice, tight fit. It is no
big deal to take down or put up and stowes neatly in its own bag when not
in use. For the last five years I have given up taking it down and
putting it up and have just left it up through hell and high water with
no serious problems, except to douse it with a recommended chemical to
preserve its water-proofness.
Altho the ads show a skipper standing on his hard-top dodger (without the
main being up), I see little advantage over a canvas dodger. Nowadays,
the canvas never seems to wear out, and tho the blue color has faded
somewhat, the canvas as suffered little by the constant exposure to the
elements by leaving the dodger up more or less permanently. The cost of
the dodger, including design for the boat, materials and labor, including
installation on the boat was just a shade less that the cost of a new
main sail.

I have two major recommendations:

1. Always opt for the optional additional hand rails on each side of
the dodger, and at the aft end of the dodger. They provide hand-holds
that make it much safer as you move from the cockpit up to the mast or
bow of the boat.

2. Regardless of cost, opt for the very best plastic windows for the
front and sides of the dodger. There are now available plastic windows
that are resistant to scratches and UV radiation and which will not
"fog-up" as they age.

LADY J is usually the solo boat with its dodger up during YRA races on
San Francisco Bay, since competitive skippers probably cringe at the
thought of the additonal windage (except when running with the wind), but
I've been happy to trade that off for a comfortable, non-tiring passage
across the Slot (so called) with an ebb tide pushing against the late
afternoon 25 knot wind coming through the Golden Gate, with the spray
coming off the bow and running down the the plastic windows of the dodger
without the need to even wear foul-weather gear.

Best wisher, Gene Roberts 312 LADY J.

[Tony G]

Gene
Thanks for your experience based input and your recomendations are noted. It's only within the last six or seven months that I've been able to stomach the looks of hard dodgers. Alot of them seem to have that slapped on 'shack' look but I'm finding more and more that blend better with the lines of the boat. A few years back Good Old Boat mag. had an article by an individual that built a hard molded dodger that had the shape and lines of a canvas jobbie. 'Looked traditional and had good hand holds too. Aesthetics aren't the driving force behind this idea but I have to say why ruin a good looking boat!
Tony G

[Theis]

A word of caution. It depends on your size. At 6'2", I have a hard time getting below (safely) with a dodger. Maybe I could learn a technique. I don't have a dodger on Solsken.

[Tony G]

Theis
That's legit! It's also why I'm leaning toward a hard model with an extra set of hand holds for going down and the whole thing maybe a little farther fore than most for clearance goin' top. It just never looks like much room! From the gallery threads I see number 407 has some appliances added. I think I'll pester that nice couple next:D

[Theis]

One other point, at least where I sail. Sometimes I have to get below fast to get something, such as tools, or the seas and circumstances are not favorable. I place a value on not being encumbered and being able to get below and back up quickly and safely, even when the boat is over 30 or 40 degrees.

[Scott Galloway]

It has occurred to me that with the relatively low boom on the Ariel that a hard dodger, or hard-topped canvas-sided dodger with a removable (perhaps sliding) panel in the top would offer some advantages. Cabin access would be much easier without having to remove the whole dodger. A lower profile dodger would also be possible with such a design. Has anyone ever built or considered building such a dodger?

[ebb]

Thanks Gene. And Theis makes an excelent point on access thru the companionway. [Must have been Airing with the hood - you guys with dark hulls, your boats all look alike!]
Thinking about preserving the good part of the hard dodger I can see a sturdy ss pipe arch right there at the end or the cabin at a suitable height with a pram hood extension and side pieces that hold the cloth and tubes in place.

I imagine Geoff had that in mind with his hard top.

Made some 'storey poles' for testing just how far aft of the c'way you could go with the rigid part. Just about anything makes it difficult because we go below thru the top of the cabin. Being a wannabe live-aboard I may have to perfect a diving technique for rapid egress.

Strong hand holds under the arch and reasonable abs is probably the only way. BUT then we are supposed to go down ladders facing them. Probably some c.c reg about that. If we had legs like a bird I can see going down backwards.

Research reveals that hard dodgers are watertight (lines aft from the mast?} and keep breaking waves and heavy spray safely out of the cockpit.
It provides standing and leaning {taking sights) and hand holds, making standing in the cockpit safer.
A rigid dodger and the seahood significantly expands the surface area of the deck.
The wind and wave shield part of the structure provides a visually better mount for the compass and other instruments (like the sounder) There is also a dry and handy place for the binoculars and nightvision scope, the radio. charts and expensive toys.
Fabric doesn't do so well in the tropics. A hard dodger is more insulated from heat, cold and noise.
It is part of the boat and adds "another room."
I'd like to add that the hard dodger also makes a midboom mainsheet rig possible. And I, for one, would really like to hear opinions on this from potential cruisers? :D
Do you racers really like the mainsheet in the cockpit like that? Puts a big part of the cockpit off limits wouldn't you say? Seems to me ANY kind of an arch in the back here would be a great improvement.

[george copeland]

Houdini has both dodger and bimini, designed as an integrated system of sorts that allows a tallish fellow like me to enjoy some freedom of movement in the cockpit--and get some protection from the Texas sun and wind. The dodger has a zipperred center panel that rolls up, making movement through the companionway easy. We only keep the center panel closed in the winter-sails on days that tend to freeze-off body parts. The bimini zippers to the trailing edge of the dodger and is cut so that I can remove that panel and have clear standing and moving room in the forward half of the cockpit. With this portion secured, I have to stoop a bit to move around under it. Overall, I like the combination of dodger and bimini. If I were to do it over again, though, I might work in some way to raise the boom a bit and then raise the bimini frame a tad. As it stands, though, it is low enough not to look lumpy on Houdini--and Houdini gets lots of big compliments on the water, something I'm vain enough to like so much that I hesitate to change for mere comfort.

[Hull376]

George,

Who made Houdini's combo bimini/dodger? Someone here in town (Houston?)

[george copeland]

The bimini/dodger was made in Clear Lake---and I can't remember the guy's name right off. I'll have to go back through my records to get that info for you, but I will get it for you.

[ebb]

Must be a hundred* photos of mostly soft dodgers on this site - including Ariel.
http://www.newjsi.com/dodger%20pictures.aspx
www.newjsi.com/east%20coast.aspx

google
East Coast Dodgers


*actually about 340!

[Bill]

Here's an interesting drawing from the above site:

[ebb]

Can't make sense of that sketch, can you?

This was just for liberating ideas, so no recommendation is attached to this outfit by me.

The 'A' price is about $1125 for an off-the-shelf Ariel dodger. Which in the present incredibly devalued dollar seems pretty reasonable. To get the windows to last longer you have to add on the cost of covers. And I've read that you can get a sunbrella fabric with vinyl laminated to the inside which makes cleaning (mildew) a breeze. All more bucks.

W A Y down at the bottom of one of the pages there is a line that says all custom dodgers are made in the 'west coast style.' Anybody know what that means?? West Coast Style may mean that it is more expensive?? Hah!
Or maybe the style uses 1" tubing, which is way more sturdy. And expensive.

And a dodger that stays up all the time needs a grab bar along the cockpit end. And probably a couple short rails on the sides. They'll be used constantly.

[Tony G]

It looks like they are suggesting you attach one of the frames to the coaming(top or side). I'd say that's a view from the top looking down-wooden shoe?

East Coast? West Coast? I thought all dodgers were from L.A. or Canada ;)

[ebb]

Clever, mon! it's an overhead view!

I think the west coast or california style refers to a dodger that is cantilevered off the end of the cabin without a strut down to the coaming. ?

Making getting in and out easier, I suppose. Or cranking on the winch with the handle. What about side curtains, though???

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Look at
Custom Marine Canvas (google)
www.geminicanvas.com/cuttingedge1.htm
Here is a guy talking about a hard windscreen concept all in pipe and rag like it is an invention of his. Damn sure it is. I wonder if I could approach him to do the folding pram part for 338's hard windscreen? His is a clever way of keeping the profile low and still allowing access below - using a unique hinge on the rear struts. Well, I think so, anyway.

A guy on another forum relates an experience with a Wavestopper "hard top" dodger. He took big green water over the bow that came along the top of the cabin and went right THRU the dodger onto his wife's back just as she coming up the steps. The zippers were pulled apart by the weight of the water on the removable windows. They managed to zip them back in again and continue on their merry way. Wave Cropper, maybe.

[Howard]

Originally from Brooklyn (those Dodgers), so it is EC. Mine came from Island Nautical and has been a blessing.

[c_amos]

On the 'must have' list before I depart of the 'long trip' are a good bimini and Dodger.

I have looked at a couple of prducts made to order, and while the quality is good, it is obvious that the prople making them thouth rather highly of thier efforts... :eek:

I have looked at the 'kits from Sailrite, and am thinking of buying their bimini instructions. (http://secure.sailrite.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId={2CC9A527-778B-489B-8CE9-2793904EVEREST9F533}&ic=100772) I already have a Sailrite Aprentence sewing machene that my First Mate has fixed, and has going nicely. :D

I really like some of the work I have seen here on others boats, especally Frank's bimini that attaches to his dodger (like so much of Frank's work). :)

I wonder if anyone has some insite, drawings, dimentions or pictures that they have not yet shared with the forum? :confused:

[c_amos]

The dodger & bimini (sunshade) Frank had made for A-50.

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=3083&stc=1&d=1142523945

[Howard]

I have a framed dodger that I have added to 50. Also got a screen that zips to either the framed bimini, or the loose sunshade and goes to the coamings and around the backstay at the motor well, effectively creating a screened room out of the cockpit areas for overnights.

[c_amos]

I have a framed dodger that I have added to 50. Also got a screen that zips to either the framed bimini, or the loose sunshade and goes to the coamings and around the backstay ......

What did you do with the one that Frank had fitted? Do you still have it? IF so might you be interested in selling it? :D

[commanderpete]

Ariel Dodger on ebay (without frame)


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Pearson-Ariel-26-Sailboat-Dodger-Navy-Sunbrella_W0QQitemZ250360404478QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear?hash=item250360404478&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 #ebayphotohosting

Island Nautical

Custom Crafted Marine Covers

Dodger for Pearson Ariel 26 Sailboat
9 oz. Navy Sunbrella acrylic with zipper opening front window, Portholes windows on sides, Chafe stripes.

(Stainless Steel Frame not included)

Normal List Price: $750.00 Yours for Only $250.00

For more Great Boating Gear and Supplies visit our other EBay items up for sale. Check out NEWJSI's other items!

If you have any questions or want to buy more please call us at: 800-652-4914

[Tony G]

I dunno-that doesn't LOOK like an Ariel. May be another one of those 'buyer beware' type auctions. I have too many experiences of that nature to draw upon and would be willing to provide support to anyone considering taking a bite out of this one. Nothing against the seller what so ever!

But, if you could get the frame hoops I bet you could get it to fit an Ariel. I'd offer $400 for everything:D

Thanks for the hunt, CPete. You're a trouper.

[Tony G]

I have a framed dodger that I have added to 50. Also got a screen that zips to either the framed bimini, or the loose sunshade and goes to the coamings and around the backstay at the motor well, effectively creating a screened room out of the cockpit areas for overnights.

Hey! I demand photos! And I'm truely shocked that I'm the first here to do so:eek:

[commanderpete]

It's a little confusing because Howard had an Island Nautical dodger on A-355. He sold that boat and bought Frank's A-50.

Pics of A-355 here

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1436

You have to install the snaps yourself to the boat on these dodgers, so that may have change how it fits.

The auction is a bit curious, and I would be a bit leery too. Obviously, they didn't build the dodger on spec. Maybe the buyer backed out, or it didn't fit. I would certainly want to get a plausible explanation

[ebb]

"..didn't fit..."
I think the ad says there is no frame either, just the soft stuff.

[epiphany]

"9 oz Sunbrella" - hmm, IIRC, that is 3 ozs lighter than any Sunbrella I have ever worked with/bought...

[Bill]

As one "matures" the joys of sailing include a desire for a wee bit more comfort. Thus, the addition of a dodger to Maika'i. Originally on Lady J, it is classified as an "off shore" dodger, and boasts hand rails for the crew as well as significant bracing. Photo #1 shows the dodger framing in process. The next photos show the completed dodger – first with the window covers and then with the covers removed. (The covers extend the life of the Mylar windows.) To contend with the occasional "warm" summer day on the central SF Bay, the middle window zips out of the dodger :rolleyes:

[Bill]

The one headache, was working around the Gahauer rope clutches. As is visible in the photos, it meant "holes" in the dodger so that the clutch levers can be operated through 180 degrees. Original coach roof hardware placement did not anticipate a dodger . . . There is one significant benefit from having the openings for the clutches – they now can be operated by the crew from on deck when working forward of the dodger.

[Bill]

Finally, a comment on the esthetics. The dodger is not very flattering to the boat’s figure :o Comfort does involve compromises . . .

[bill@ariel231]

very nice..

question: what is the height of the dodger above the bridge deck?

[Ed Ekers]

Mr. Bill, I have a couple of questions. My first thought was/is this a sign that Lady J has been pasted on to a new skipper? Also I remember the dodger being blue, if I am correct hoe did it become black?........ed

[Bill]

Mr. Bill, I have a couple of questions. My first thought was/is this a sign that Lady J has been pasted on to a new skipper? Also I remember the dodger being blue, if I am correct hoe did it become black?........ed

Lady J is up for sale. Actually, it's the slip that's for sale. ;)

New cover is the answer to the color question. Old cover was shot. Plus, with modifications to the frame, it no longer fit. To allow for easier access to the cabin, we raised the height from the deck by about seven inches. That required longer aft braces and shorter side grab rails. The boom now just clears the top of the dodger. (Unlike Lady J, Maika'i's gooseneck is fixed at the lower band on the mast.) Last Monday's test sail in light air turned up no clearance problems. :)

[Tony G]

Bill
I think Maika'i looks sharp as a tack with that new dodger. She looked just as beautiful without one I should add.

How about a gallery thread for Maika'i? You have added photos of her here and there to other threads over the years, how about giving us a tour?

[mbd]

Here's a pic of the dodger on "Lady J" from a few years back when Gene was kind enough to take me out on the bay during a visit out west. That is one nice sturdy dodger!

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=2430&stc=1&d=1122510316

PS. I'll second TonyG's request! Let's see a nice layout of racing Ariel!

[Tony G]

Mike

Thanks for the archival photo. It gives some perspective to the changes made by Bill. Again, I think it's a sharp addition to 76/Old Yeller/Maika'i. Did I miss a moniker?

[Bill]

. . . how about giving us a tour?

:o Well . . . Although some trim is back, below decks is pretty much stripped out -- not even any cushions -- and the forecabin is a disaster area. We've focused our limited abilities mostly on the "sailing" and exterior aspects and let the other stuff slide. The next "ten year plan" includes putting some of our efforts below deck . . :rolleyes:

[commanderpete]

Fine looking boat there Bill, and the dodger is just right

This is the only photo I've ever seen of a dodger on a Commander

[Tony G]

Yeah, you may have the only photo of a Commander with a dodger, CPete. Maybe my brainpan is too lose but that looks okay to me. Actually, I've never noticed before how a Commander could take pilothouse type hard dodger... By George!! I think you've got it, man!

Who's quick with the CAD? We need a prototype drawing:D

"IT COULD WORK!!"

[Rico]

Hmmm...
NOT bad looking little dodger for a Commander, I must say...

I can certainly think of a time or two where I wished for a bit of spray protection... But 99% of the time I sail in weather that is quite nice... and a bit of a soak is not usually a big deal...
It looks like this set-up would be easily and cleanly removable?

Very nicely made Dodger Mr. Bill. Nice work around the clutches! I like the black color; it would match the Mephisto Cat's gray hull...

[joe]

otherwise known as "artificial shade" here in Oklahoma:)