PDA

View Full Version : Propane Powered Outboard Motor......?



ebb
12-22-2002, 08:02 AM
Happy Solstice Everybody!

leaving you with with a little brain candy for the new year......!

Theis
12-23-2002, 05:03 AM
Too dangerous. Use Compressed Natural Gas. Drag a small "submarine" (natural gas gas tank) behind and make people think a whale is following you. Have some more brandy.

Brent
12-27-2002, 07:57 AM
The vapors for both are heavier than air and each is flammable.

Sounds like an intriguing idea. The exhaust would be much cleaner than with a gas engine.

The only downside that I can see (off the top of my head) is that you would probably want a dedicated propane locker for the fuel tank(s). Perhaps some alteration of one side of the lazarette?

If Ebb can do it for a large outboard...

Of course, you could always use those disposable propane canisters, but those probably wouldn't provide much range.

ebb
12-27-2002, 11:44 AM
Hey there Brent,
I did bumble into an Aussie or Kiwi site that was flogging a propane conversion for Honda hoggs (like 90 & 150 hp.) Nothing new under the sun, eh? But they seemed more interested in finding corporate and government customers with a green mandate than showing off their invention to the public. Anyway, havn't turned up that site again.

It does seem like somebody would market a conversion kit for the millions of smaller motors out there. It IS greener and cleaner. Many folks lash the cannister(s) to the pushpit often with yachtsey color-co-ordinated sunbrella jackets. Might consider that easier and safer than a dedicated locker. I guess the challenge is to get pound for pound efficiency with gas. Maybe that is not a problem, maybe it's just getting it accepted, marketing. According to a cruiser site propane is almost as available as gas now, everywhere. I think I'd rather deal with propane than liquid as a safety issue.

And dealing with one type of fuel for all the toys would definitely be a big plus. No? I'd go for it if you could easily convert the ob back to gas if you had to.

Been racking my bean trying the propane bottle (and backup) in various protected places. Aft in the cockpit would be my first choice too. But the dedicated locker drain would be too close to the waterline IMCO. I think even if you dared to cross them like they used to with cockpit drains (leading to opposite sides) there would be maintenance problems with the hidden tubes. And you need total access to the solenoid, valves, and hoses. And that access HAS to be in the cockpit. I haven't found a readymade access hatch that is close to the squat 10# and fit the c'pit well side OR the top.

{You could conceivably buy a West M. readymade drop in gas locker and maybe fit it in up front like it was an anchor locker, haven't checked but it would be a difficult fit I think, taking up too much space - and unless on sale it's outrageously priced. Then lead the safety drain out well above the WL But the locker I saw was maybe 20" deep, too deep!]

There is probably better installation possibility on the side you have the stove, whatever, in the forward part of the cockpit. maybe using part of the bridge volume. Wonder if anybody has thier bottles here?? The locker drain still might be too low to the waterline to be safely open while underway.

Bill, below mentions a coach deck mount. Be real difficult to design a locker that wouldn't look like a gun emplacement. Tim L., I think, has a nekid tank installed behind the mast. On the Ariel it'ld be right on top. How would you lead the tubes? Capturing methane off the composting toilet is the only way to go.:eek:

Bill
12-27-2002, 12:09 PM
How about strapped to the mast? :p

BTW - LNG is lighter than air. Had an LNG stove in the 30 footer and kept it in the port cockpit locker. No problems - except finding the stuff. Luckily for us, Sven's Marine (less than a mile from our slip) carried exchange bottles.

Brent
12-28-2002, 08:01 PM
I used to be one of those environmentalist wackos that Rush Limbaugh always talks about--but that's another story... Anyway, I recall a number of different publications that describe how to convert a standard gasoline motor to use propane or CNG.

Real Goods used to have one, but I can't find it now. I used to have that literature lying around, but I became more realistic as I got older and probably trashed it years ago...

A search on Google using "convert gasoline engine to propane" resulting in a few hits. Try this one: http://www.propane-generators.com/

They sell conversion kits for gensets; it should probably work for the average outboard.

Brent
12-28-2002, 08:09 PM
I took a look at that site I found; those kits are less than $200.

I may look into this further; my inclination has been to get a 4-stroke because of the economy, relative silence and because it is better on the environment. Granted, a 2-stroke will still spew unburned fuel, but propane is better on the environment than gasoline, correct?

This definitely needs more research...thanks Ebb, for awakening the idealist ;)

Theis
12-28-2002, 08:30 PM
I'll second Bill's comment about natural gas being lighter than air. My understanding and research shows that ropane gas, if it escapes, will sit in the bilge until an untoward event happens. That is why propane is not supposed to be used on boats. CNG, on the other hand rises and is suitable for a marine environment. I do use a propane camping stove but use it outside and in the open only.

Mike Goodwin
12-29-2002, 05:30 AM
Seems to me the propane conversion would have to be on a 4 stroke . Where is the lube going to come from that a 2 stroke needs , and that oil is half the polution problem with a 2 stroke . So by going to a 4 stroke you are already cutting the polution and fuel consumption .
What are the figures against 2 stroke , 4 stroke and propane converted ?
Plus , you know it will void your warranty !

Brent
12-29-2002, 12:55 PM
Still, there is no warranty to void if I buy a used motor :)

CNG is an idea, but where would you get it? It's piped into my home, but I'm not sure where it is available in tanks like LPG is.

ebb
12-30-2002, 07:53 AM
Thanks, Brent, for the generator site. Been running thru the fields of all propane possibilities myself and it does look like it just a matter of hardware and market rather than 'invention.' The conversion would require a modified carburetor (some holes drilled larger with others plugged) and a vacuum controlled flow regulator. If there was call for propane I would guess that the manufactors would develop a bi or trifuel carburator.

Propane roughly equals gas in gallons used. Not much benefit there. But it stores indefinitely, burns cleaner. There seems to be more likelihood of breatheing gas fumes than propane when you think how careful the propane system would be installed. Sailing/motoring in terms of odor would be cleaner.

In the oil cartel, the more we use, the higher the price goes. Propane used to be cheap, but now it's tied in to gas and diesel prices. They even road tax it if you put it in your pickup.

And in our little ships there definitely is the problem of portable tank stowage.

Ariel was designed to use the now obsolete two stroke ob. Wonder if we have a British Seagull faction of antigue outboard enthusiasts. Too bad they can't be cleaned up with a conversion.

Propane, evidently, can be run in diesels. No? Ahh, there's nothing like tradition to keep us on an even keel:rolleyes:

commanderpete
12-31-2002, 08:13 AM
Yeah, but will this new engine chill your beer?

http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

ebb
12-31-2002, 11:57 AM
C'pete, besides finding this jetchiller site, how you read it? It's painted in caramel colored varnish or sumpin - can't hardly get my eye balls to keep from sliding off the screen. Maybe them kiwis should cease sucking brew outa aluminum cans.

In case there's any other wackos interested in propane chilled beer, C'Brent's generator guy emailed back saying his kits liked more calmer machines than OBs and didn't think they'd do well in the marine environment anyway.

Anybody outside of CA surely is deprived of Lagunitas Brewing Co's "Sweet Release": Brown Shugga. An ale with big shoulders. Definitely don't drink and drive with this one. These brewers like to hop the hell out most of their brews - this one has a near perfect ballance of sweet and bitter. It is an excellent alternative to your hoitytoity New Year Eve's bottle of Veuve Clicquot Ponsardin at a tenth of the cost. Cheers............auld acquaintances...........

Tony G
01-01-2003, 08:58 AM
Ebb
I know it is proper to be as green as possible but why would you try for an alternative fuel when you're hoping to cruise this little boat. Locating fuel and facilities could be difficult it one opts for something out of the norm in a foreign port.
With the modifications you've made to your lazerette you should easily be able to accomodate a behemoth 4-stroker. Plenty of power, readily available fuel, greener that a two-stroke(at least). And besides, didn't you say you were thinking about a diesel monster once in one of these threads? They have such a romantic chater to them as they slide by...thuka thuka thuka weaze...
Well, I didn't mean to toss alot of bad carma your way but scince nobody asked why....
Tony G
ps I finally got around to removing the support beam the other night. It happened about midnight, started with a very big screw driver then progressed through a smattering of pry bars and ended with an eight pound maul.

Theis
01-01-2003, 10:49 AM
Tony: That is a great repair technique. I just emplopyed it with my computer when it kept crashing spontaneously. The screwdriver and prybar were at hand, ready if needed, but I started with the maul and that seemed to take care of it. Has been working fine for the past couple days.

I concur with your opinion about fuel. On several occasions, when I have been low and there has been no marina open or in the area, being able to take the gas can a couple blocks to the local all night gas station, get it filled up and head back to the boat has saved the day. Knowing you don't have the fuel to get back to port, or manoever while in port, is a danger to avoid.

Peter