Sheds

[Tony G]

Hey Ebb, how do you? 'Like your shelter? It's getting close to that time of year round here when the cold north wind starts blowing and it gets cold and rainy only to put down a layer of ice before it starts to snow. Well, maybe not that bad, but it sure seems like it. 113 doesn't fit through our warehouse door so it sits outside all year(the horror). That means I have 'bout two weeks in dead summer to work on anything that can't get wet. I made a cover-uh actually two covers last year. The first one was tall enough for me to get around in and out and such but only lasted about a week until 30-40mph winds smashed it. Had a picture of the carnage but alas I deleted it from my files. Cover number two isn't going anywhere but has no room for me to work on her when covered. I've seen 'instant garages' that look similar to what you have over 338 at some of the local hrdwr stores but I haven't seen any of them around here in use.(maybe they all blew away?) The Mrs. isn't too fond of spending rubels on the boat right now as she just dicovered OUR recently purchased Garhauer rigid boom vang. 'But if I had one of those shelters(sugar booger) I could get all the work done on the boat in half the time.' (What'dya think, will she go for it?) Anyway, what I meant to ask is how strong of winds do you regularly have around there and how long have you had that shelter up? We're looking for at least two years of realatively maintenance free shelter. thought about building one like Glissando Tim's but then I'll have a pile of wood lying around waiting for me to erect it.(I assume your shelter came in a box, and that looks much tidier:D (smilely face two)). Thanks for your ear Tony G.

[Mike Goodwin]

I built a shelter like Ebb's for a 35' ( shelter was 45' ) a couple of years ago . Used electrical conduit and those silver& black poly tarps .
I would do a ply roof & tarp sides if I had to do it again . It stood through 5 hurricanes and a handful of nor-easters (60mph) . Orient the building to the prevailing wind and it will last twice as long , ours ran NE-SW .

[ebb]

Tony, The tent comes from Northern Tool (catalog). About $530 for the 11'x25' model - Plus shipping by truck which was more than $100.
www.northerntool.com
1-800-556-7885

To work on your ship, unless it's on its side, you have to mount the tent frame and all on some sawhorse type construction. You can just see a bit of that in Bill's first shot of the yard tractor. Look for a tall model tent like for an RV or a boat and the price skyrockets.

The tent, in a marina at the end of a parking lot, is exposed to winds constantly. Sometimes it can really shake! The material has held up for the year plus it been standing.

But, while the frame is powdercoated metal tubing and will last forever, the tarp is that silver plastic which we all know will give up after a year in the sun, mine is holding up for now, it's quite elaborate, held on to the frame very taut with quoit bunges and a lot of stiching. Northern gave me the makers number (Larin) you can get a replacement for around $200 from them. It's a very good design IMCO. You see ads with snow piled around the tent!


Up north you'ld probably choose to mount the tent on a 25' long 3' high box to keep the winter out. The tent is aimed at the northern auto/motor boat market, comes with screwin cable tie downs. It sounds like you can set it up semi-permanent. I've had to use the boat as the anchor in the yard, roping the frame to the stanchion-props.

Filtered light comes in thru the material, which is a real plus. I got the tent for the rain but it has been a blessing in cutting the intensity of the sun and in being a wonderful wind bubble. It creates a great work environment. I won't have any trouble selling it. Buttoned up you could keep it warm inside.

Is is, however, a tent. The bow (tent=25' - boat=26') has rubbed thru the end panel and there is no fix I know of short of sewing on a patch. If there is wind your house is dancing!

[Tony G]

Holy cats Mike you're a tough critic. After five hurricanes and a bad phone call I probably would have left! When you made your conduit frame did you go all out a buy the x-clamps or did you use some other method of joining all that pipe? What didstance did you space the uprights(stud?). 'n'how 'bout that plywood top? Is that just for longevity or did you have certain probs that you'd like to avoid all together. The way I figure that's 10 sheets of ply at the very least. 113 is trapped in the middle of some buildings. Kind of in the center a 'U' surrounded on the North, West, and South but because it's on a trailer it's at roof top height to the North and West and that's where the most damaging winds come from. Hopefully this winter I'll have a 'year round' shelter. I'm getting cold just thinking about it! Tony G.

[Mike Goodwin]

We made our own connectors , sleeve fit from larger conduit .
Spacing was 3 or 4' centers .
10 sheets should do it @$100 at most , cheaper than the big tarps .
We added a ridge pole on the inside to avoid chafe , a 2x4 on it's side .

[Bill]

Another source for boat sheds. Xtreme Shelters has a line of tough but inexpensive shelters. Saw one set up in Iowa during a 40 knot (cooold) wind earlier this month. They use galvanized tubing/pipe for the framing. The 20 x 10 is $200 ("system" model). Check 'em out At:

http://www.extremeshelter.com/products.htm

[Tony G]

Bill
I checked out the extreme shelters. The one thing that keeps me from jumping in is this universal 'whatever by 20' thing!! Doesn't anyone else shelter 30 something long? Are we the only ones out here? Poor 113 is once again draped with that ugly green tarp for the next 6 months. well, I hope the tarps hang together that long. The wind and temperature gets tough on things around here in winter. However, I think we have devised a plan to fit it inside our warehouse next spring. Oh my God-it's starting to snow!:(

PS What's shakin with Ebb these days?

[Bill]

Ebb is busy with the grape plantation and waiting for boat hardware. We plan a visit to #338 in the near future and will take more photographs.

A note on Xtreme Shelters. You can purchase kits that do not include the long poles. You can add them when the kits arrive. This would allow for extending the lenght or width or height of the system. Of course, you would then need a different canvass cut . . but maybe Extreme would do it for you. If interested, you might ask.

One note about Xtreme. It's a pretty small firm. We could not contact them last week because they were "out pheasant hunting!" :p

[ebb]

Had a little ole storm blow thru here the other day accompanied by our first rain of the season. Knocked down trees and fences and all that and totally disassembled the tent over the boat by ripping out the stiching of the front panel which bore the brunt of the wind. And then ripped apart the roof and side panel bungee cord assembly which holds all the pipes and connectors together.

I wasn't around but I heard about it from the guy next door who had spent the night in his boat. His description of the chaos was like one of those weather channel specials where dazed and suddenly philosophical survivors of hurricanes fumble for the right horrible words.

Called up Northern Tool who have discontinued this line of "garages" - except for "warranty commitments."

Just happened to have a new replacement tarp because I'd seen some delamination in the panels some weeks befor. What with the wind blasting thru and the shredding of plastic the deck and cockpit was covered with the flakey dust of disintegrated grey tarp.

[ebb]

listen mates, get yerself a stiff tent like Capt. Tony's. We have a system presently rolling thru here making records again I think. A plastic tent is a miserable thing in high winds - and roaring gusts. It's very self destructive.

Rigged dozens of crisscrossed Home Cheapo candy cane colored lines - spider-webbed from frame to parking lot bulkhead and a recycled piling the harbor master miraculously dropped conveniently right at the entrance of 338's again extremely portable garage.

Furled up the windward end, bundled the boat in it's own silver slicker and let the wind and water streak thru the inner sanctum. Then like a coward I left it shuddering and bending and the sawhorse legs do-se-do-ing to the howling music. She had to take care of herself.

The blue tarps on other project boats had already been stripped and shredded Their silver tarps were lifting like waves off their frames and making the thumping sounds of warfare. Didn't know that I rated an ale but I stopped off and bought two anyway. Cheers.

[Tony G]

Well, this was unexpected but we have to move 113 to a new spot. I was able to find a rental unit that will allow me to work on her while there. So it looks like more time, effort and money will be spent setting up a new shop. The plus side is she will be 7 miles from home instead of 20. It is a new building with somewhere around 14 foot ceilings, better electrical and I will have my tools in the same building as the boat. It's not heated, yet, and we're approaching the end of the season as far as boat work is concerned. So I'm affraid all I will get done for the remainder of this year is trying to find all of the 'stuff' I've accumulated over time, preparing her for the road trip and setting up the new bay.

We'll post photos as they come. Fingers crossed...

[ebb]

Tony, hope the move goes easy and doesn't cost too much!
Any new building in Minnesota would have to have decent insulation,
maybe you'll luck out there.
You need an excuse to work on the boat during the winter!
There are pretty efficient heaters around. Maybe there's one you can sell later
when the boat leaves its new digs.
Oh. frabjous day!

google: Woodshop Heating Options
www.woodweb.com>KnowledgeBase
google: Heating Woodworking Shop - by dalec@LumberJocks.com...
lumberjocks.com/topics/1383
Like one of the guys says:
If you can keep the space at 45 degrees when you're not there,
But ramp it up quick when you arrive to 60/65... that would be ideal.
Good luck!!!

[mbd]

Tony - good luck on the move AND the heat! I'd hate to think of your "Nude Honky Workshop" with no heat! Then again, maybe you Minnesotans are a lot tougher than the rest of us. :)

[Tony G]

Thanks for the well wishes. Had a chat with the building owner yesturday and he's going to spring for the insulation if I intall it. Oh no, itchy fiberglass, I wouldn't want to, I couldn't-well okay. Turns out his brother rebuilt a 40+foot wooden Cris Craft not so long ago just a few miles down the road from here and our paths are destined to cross.:D

The bay is 16 feet high, 17'-4" wide and 42'-10' long. It has two 50 amp outlets for electric heaters. It is going to be a tight squeeze to get all of the tools, tables, benches and the boat in there and still have room. Therefore, I spent most of lastnight searching compact/small woodshop layouts. It appears as though I may have to rebuild some of my cabinets to get a workspace that has a good flow to it. Previously, I built everything to fit the carved up space that was my shop.

And I'm not tough, Mike. I'm trying like hell to get out of here!

[ebb]

Well, you got two foot centers on the walls - if you have to insulate those - other tenants next to your space?
Walls don't go to roof, so first thought is creating a ceiling. But what kind of height over the boat deck do you want there?
Doesn't look like any code will allow hanging a ceiling over that space - too lightly built.
Suppose you insulate the roof - but then you have to extend and frame in the top of the walls.
Hanging encapsulated insulation from the roof will take a couple guys I think.
You see these white insulation bags in the ceilings of bigbox home improvement warehouses - the stuff is held up with wires.

Naturally I would avoid plain fiberglass, not only gets in your face but in your lungs.

There is a 'foam' COTTON material used for friendly insulation - doesn't weigh anything - I'm sure your codes require minimum R-30 for exterior walls. The thickness will be at least 6". For the glass too. Be easy to staple in ENCAPSULATED glass between the studs.
What about the roll up door, is that insulated? What is it 3000 sq ft?
(I've been stooping on the deck of litlgull all these years because of the sloping sides of the tent roof. Standing up to work on the deck would make it so much easier to get it done. But, after the walls are stuffed, would it be possible to batten up some roll plastic on the joists overhead? The space might heat up pretty good without insulating the damn rafters.)


You don't want to get into sheet rocking as part of your deal with the landlord.
There is a plastic mesh you staple over the cotton batting. Still you probably need a vapor barrier.
But if you install pink fiberglass, you will no doubt finish off with Tyvec on the walls and ceiling -
which could be code for a vapor battier. Your landlord might go for that.
Encapsulated bats might be left the way they are.
It might be more cost effective (whot you say?) and MUCH quicker to have an insulation contractor come in and do it. Like a day and a half.
Or get the landlord to do it.
If you close the space, what can you do about ventilation?
An A/C over the door?

Can't remember: you got a trailer?

Still, sounds like a bunch of sweat before the big chill....!
And $$$
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________
I just went back over about half of your Gallery Fruits thread. ...ALL the gorgeous work you've done... You must be nearly there!!!
Side stepping and wasting time getting another space together must be a real downer.
Maybe you can staple vinyl to the framing in the new place and find a decent space heater that will kill the chill when you show up. Dead air spaces have some insulating properties.
I may get into the water before you!!!:cool:

[Tony G]

We got the new boat bay walls and ceiling insulated and sealed the whole space with vapor barrier. I just ran fiberglass battens down the walls and stapled them in place. The ceiling was a bit of a chore as we went with 4' x 8' x 2" rigid styrofoam sheets. Thankfully, a friend loaned us some of his scafolding which made a tough job tollerable. Then we rented a 24' u-hual and got most of the tools moved in. There is not much room left for a boat but we'll make do. It is a big, big improvement over the old work space. No more smacking my head on trusses or shoveling snow off the deck inside the building. Yeah-that's what I said. Hopefully lastnight's snow melts off by this weekend makeing the move a lot easier. Fingers crossed.

Pictures will follow.

[Tony G]

We got all of the boats moved this weekend. The fishing boat found a new home as we haven't even come close to using it for the last two years. Except for a flat on the chase car everything went smoothly. We cleared the old shop door with 1/2"-3/4" to spare! It was cold and windy and I told everyone our main goal was to get her out of the building and we can repair anything that might happen. And that was all that was needed;) I was anxious to see her from a distance. My biggest concern was turning such a lovely craft into an eye sore with all of the changes I've made. I did manage to snap a few pics but right now I don't have a way to post them. My camera is first generation with a patch cord and a nine (?) pin plug and now all I have is a lap top with usb ports. Maybe I can sneak into my old office sometime and jump online...

[ebb]

Great life changes
are like that. We squeeze through with 1/2" to spare.

You've done some beautiful and innovative changes to your boat.
When you're done and you've splashed, none of the tight stuff will matter.
Nobody will notice the changes.
What you do with your boat is how it always was.
How it is meant to be.

Hate to say it,
IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME.

[Tony G]

Pictures at five...

[Tony G]

Of course those are out of sequence but you get the idea..

[mbd]

Nothing at ALL wrong with those pics, Tony. Those coamings are beautifully proportioned to the lines and shape of the boat. Looking good!

[Tony G]

Well so far there is nothing new to report from the new nude honky workshop as far as bote werk goes. I try to get up to the shop a couple of hours a week if for nothing else just to see the gal. But when I do get focused enough to get something done, finding, organizing and reorganizing tools, parts and supplies eats up about all the time I spend there. And while the space is not heated yet, I find it relatively warm in there compared to the old shop. I swear the other morning when it was nearly -20F it felt closer to 0F...what am I doing here???

I've been doing some searching for a reasonably priced heater as I am getting cabin fever and a sore butt. The problem I keep encountering is most of the 220-240V heaters have that funky household sized electrical plug like you occationally run across on airconditioners. This building has outlets wired in that are identical to your typical clothes dryer. I have considered wiring a pig-tail that changes outlet formats. I'm sure that would be an electrical faux pas but it might have to come to that save changing out the power cord with a replacement clothes dryer cord. Burning wood is not an option here and even if it was I don't think I want to buy a chainsaw, find the wood spit and stack and move it. Lord knows I did plenty of that growing up and I'd like to keep that just a fond memory. I will probably make a simple solar air heater that can be placed outside the overhead door and vented into the passage door for those late spring and fall days that are ideal for such a unit. I suspect something that simple will greatly extend the bote werk season in these latitudes without the need for supplementing with electical heat now that I have a sealed and insulated shop(yea!!).

The need to keep the cash lay-out low and investment value high is crucial as I am 'in between' careers and the current job I have secured is very part-time and pays like it. After more than fifteen years I am no longer in the pet industry. No more seven days a week jobs for me! No, I didn't leave with a pocket full of cash. The 'ex' did and that 's okay because that was important to her. My new work hours are 5:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. six days a week and that leaves me a lot of time to find something a little more fulfilling. Or at least something that pays really well and demands as little time as this 'McJob'does! Ha-ha-ha. At my age, I don't know if I want to go back to the slog. Part of me thinks 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year might just be too much. Especially because it somehow always seems to end up being 60 hour work weeks. I'm leaning more toward the 50 hour week, say, 30 weeks a year. Yeah, that's it...

But I digress, this about shops and particularly electric shop heaters. So short story long, do any of you captains have any ideas? Heat or job related. Just want to say 'Thanks' in advance as I will probably go take a nap now-Whew!

[ebb]

Good Luck on that work change, Tony.
big changes can be horrendous disruptors.
You seem to be on top of it.
Your next home DOES have a keel!

www.northerntool.com
Quellet Portable Heater - 240V 4000W (17Amps) Model#OCH4000. $114.99.
[utterly utilitarian, probably imported from Uzbekistan]

Northern Tool is a good place to start looking.
Product info has a picture of the prong type that comes with it.
READ THE REVIEWS - which seem authentic.
(Tip from one reviewer on how to rewire if not your plug type.
Prongs are sidewise straight in type not the circular twist in.
However, it is unclear which plug type is actually supplied. ASK.)

Have not used this heater myself.
Fan noise would be a problem. Six foot cord.

[Tony G]

That's the kind of heater I'm looking for-strictly utilitarian, bells and whistles not necessary. As far as fan noise goes I'm not too worried about that. From the searches I've done so far clearly we're going to have to change the power cord no matter what heater we get. Unless we hang a clothes dryer in the corners ;)

[Ariel 109]

Tony,

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Propane-Heater-Convection-TC102/dp/B000PDNQSU

I use one of these on construction sites to quickly heat things up, it works great. You don't run them continuously so venting isn't too important, still be careful. Those electric heaters will take hours to heat that space up and are really expensive to run. You could stick a "safer" DeLonghi electric oil-filled radiator type heater inside your Ariel to keep things warm inside the cabin and allow your epoxy work to set up. And a ceiling fan will help with keeping you comfortable in that tall space.

Ben

[Tony G]

Ben

We already have a propane unit very similar in design to the one you linked above. I used to use that in my original Nude Honky Workshop and I will attest to the fact that they will heat up a space quickly. That building was built in the 1940's, got flooded with 3" of water every spring and had about 1/4" of the vermiculite insulation left in the ceiling, which drifted out of the various cracks and holes everytime the wind shot up over 20mph. So needless to say lack of ventilation was never a concern there. This place is sealed up tight with seams and fixtures taped, but more importantly, Bob has a 'no open flame' rule and I gotta respect that. It is an unfortunate fact that we're just going to have bite the bullet and pay to heat up the space. Once up to temp. it should stay there relatively easy.

[ebb]

Northern Tool has pic and info on an infrared hanging fixture that looks like a flourescent shop light.

TPI Ouartz Infrared Spot Heater 57" Model #OCH-57-240v $169.99.
must be hard wired.
As you know infrared heats solid objects which then heat the space.
Couple reviews should be read.

There is no fan in these heaters therfore in theory they should cost less to run (and be quiet) than a warm air heater in a large space.

While there is no open flame om either of these heaters, imco they aren't safe if there are solvents in the room.

[epiphany]

I'd go with 2 heaters:

One being the oil-filled, radiator style Ben mentions, for general area heating. Put that inside the boat, inside that shed, it will make a comfy temp for working. I know, because I use one on my boat, which is the same as yours, sans shed. ;)

The second being a small, radiant type - where you can see the coils or quartz lamps glow red. Point that heater at what you want to get hot (warm) - like if you need to bring the resin up to temp, or if you are outside of the hull cutting cloth or prep or whatever... The cheapy WalMart $18 one works as good as the more expensive ones. I think that most of them are 1500W.

Looks like a nice work area! Too bad about the 'no flame' policy - I used to keep one of those turbine-like kero heaters in my surfboard factory. Sparked that sucker up for 5 minutes every half hour/as needed, and it was cheap-o to run, and heated things up really fast. :)

(Preemptively: Yes, I understand/understood the dangers. ;) )