Rudder Post Bearing-a lower one?

[RobertheBruce]

Hello Ariel/Commander friends-

New Ariel owner (hull 318). I've learned a tremendous amount from the collective wisdom here. Lots of little projects--mostly woody ones, and will post pictures--mahogany forward hatch, companionway slats, coaming boards, etc. My brother-in-law and I sailed it home from Boothbay, ME to Portland in one long fabulous day. I got 3-4 more august/sept. days out in Casco Bay before the tired genoa blew into pieces. It had a good run (52 years!). One issue: There was always slop/lash in rudder that felt ominous. I finally discovered the source: no bearing in the rudder post down where it comes out of the hull (the one at the top was present). I've seen lots of picture of Ariel rudders, but none with a lower bearing. Is this normal? When I reinstall I plan to push a nylon bearing up into the hole in the bottom of the hull and fit the rudder. I'm expecting a big improvement. Any similar observations/experiences out there?

Cheers-
bruce

[Bill]

The rudder shaft is held by the rudder post bearing at the top and the rudder shoe at the bottom. If both are in good good condition, there should be no "slop" in the shaft. Are you certain that the rudder shaft bearing is not the problem? We've had orders for many bearings because of "slop" problems that develop over the years. Just the presence of the bearing does not indicate that it's OK.

In any case, another "bearing" is not really the way to fix the "slop" problem. If the bearing is not the problem, then likely the problem has something to do with the rudder board's attachment to the rudder shaft. The pins that hold the rudder to the shaft could be loosening up. Tougher fix than just replacing the rudder shaft bearing. :)

[RobertheBruce]

Very helpful thoughts! I believe my rudder post bearing at the tiller is fine, so maybe it was waggle in the bronze pins/shafts holding the wood. More to explore... Cheers! Bruce.

[ebb]

I've just 'advised', on rudder removal, my basic experience on the subject.

If I may, like to add a couple things:

Nearly all boats with our style rudders, like the Triton, for instance,
have a sleeve bearing where the rudder shaft enters the boat underneath.

A/Cs do not have a bearing there because of the way the rudder is removed
from the boat. Go to the thread, Rudder Removal, for that. It would be
impossible to remove rudder with a bearing where the shaft enters the hull.

It's six feet from the rudder shoe to the sleeve bearing in the cockpit. There
is an added feature to our rudder system that looks insignificant but is very
important for taming the shaft.
This is a copper strap on the keelstock that pierces the blade about
half way up which supports & holds the rudder shaft to the keel.

I've seen these permanently removed.
I've also seen an Ariel in the yard that came in with NO rudder shoe, the
rudder attached entirely to the boat with just the copper strap and, I assume,
the head fitting. The boat, from the cruddy bottom had sailed into the
marina. It left after a bottom job the rudder still dangling without a shoe!!

Because there is no intermediate bearing thruout the length of the shaft,
Pearson put the strap there to keep the rudder shaft aligned with the shoe
in case of grounding. Or chance lifting of the rudder assembly.

Maybe shows the importance of this insignificant copper strap.

More slop can be found in the tiller head connection to the top of rudder
shaft. There if the head has any slop the key will wear the keyway in the
top of the shaft and cast keyway in the collar of the tiller head. A338's
is soworn it requires a specially made key.

Slop can also be due to the often forgotten sleeve bearing and flattened
O-rings, which Bill will send to you at cost.

Imco the cantilevered tiller head assembly needs regular maintenance and
replacement of the O-rings that also keeps water from entering the cockpit
thru the rudder tube.

Need to carefully examine the tillerhead for wear, or even damage. Imco,
it's a good idea to have a removable bearing under the bustle. But
really impossible to find a simple and direct way to do it!

The copper strap is important to taming of the rudder shaft and should
not be removed. Also, the whole weight of the rudder is on the rudder
shoe, which has caused problems for some boats (including Ebb's Ariel.)

[RobertheBruce]

Thanks! I now get the geometry involved in removing/attaching the rudder: a lower bearing would make it impossible, without removing the shoe. I got my rudder off very easily by just dismantling the top, removing the bronze strip, lifting the rudder an inch, then scooting the bottom out of the shoe. (though had to dig a little trench in the dirt) to let the rudder down/out.

So there's nothing to be gained by adding a lower sleeve bushing I guess? One just seems to belong there...

Cheers-
bruce.

[Bill]

Bruce, find answers to most of your questions by first searching for them. A search method using Google works well and is described in the Off Topic forum. (It was hidden in another thread for awhile.) The Google search is way better than the forum's.

[joeniver]

Roberthebruce:
Is/was the gap on the top and bottom of your rudder as bad as mine or worse or better.
Thanks


1002310024

[RobertheBruce]

My rudder gap was not noticeably bad...These picture actually don't look too bad. I think my "slop" problem was indeed loose pins through the wood.




Roberthebruce:
Is/was the gap on the top and bottom of your rudder as bad as mine or worse or better.
Thanks


1002310024