outboard well plug....

[animaljosh]

does everybody have am easily removable plug that fits securely in the outboard well when not in use? Im a new owner, of an inboard that also has the well, and just realized the "plug" comes out easily with the removal of two thumb screws. I thought it was glassed. Just wanted to know if that is a standard bit, or if I got lucky? Certainly is a great option in my opinion!

[Bill]

The well was added by Pearson to the boats without inboard engines. If you have both, then a PO upgraded to inboard auxiliary power. BTW - all the ob wells came with a plug from the factory. For more information, please use the search function. Lots of discussions.

[Tony G]

BTW - all the ob wells came with a plug from the factory.
I was not aware of that, Bill. That means owners were losing outboard plugs at a much higher rate and percentage than bic lighters! I'm not a statistician, but I think that pencils out..

(Rest assured, when the winning lottery ticket comes in, I will make sure every A/C owner gets a replacement plug.)

[ebb]

I challenge anybody to SEARCH for something specific
[sorry, this repeated itself....]

[ebb]

I challenge anybody to go into the SEARCH function
and come up with an answer to 'outboard well plug' - 'OB motor plug' - 'OB well cover'

The search function reduces your prompt to something shorter that makes no sense.
When you get the threads there are 60 or a 100 of them - with no clue where your goose is.
Like a page number or a post number......

We have a chinese search engine for a boat website. (No tickee, no shirtee)

Example: typed in
>outboard well plug<
into the Search request window.
Search verified with
>outboard, plug< [note the introduction of the puntuation mark - which makes the search phrase meaningless.]
and 36 site threads came up. I randomly select: Ariel 387 - "Arthur".
Scrolled through 40 posts to page 3 where finally saw the meaningless phrase accented in yellow, post 43.
This is a picture supported thread - our 'clues of probability' were in one or two photos along the way....


There happens to be on this thread a good example of the factory well hole flange, post 38
But NO example of the plug or cover or fairing plate or whatever it's called.

No satisfaction.
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If I type into the Search window >OB well<, it'll come back >OB, well< ....as if 'well' is considered an adverb - rather than a noun.
Like: OutBoard, well....... well, are you really sure you want to look up outboard?
Outboard, of what? Do you mean overboard? Onboard?

"The word is too common, or too long, or too short to be included in your search."
THAT is an actual quote telling me, the victim inquirer, why the search wasn't accomplished. Really.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
[VBulletin is a product of Jelsoft Enterprises, a subsudiary of Internet Brands, located in ElSegundo CA......
since they are right down the street, maybe we could ask them to reset their product >soft, ware< with a nautical dictionary?:D]

[captcraig]

Outboard plug? I was afraid to ask. But now that you bring it up. I'm wondering how much reserve bouyancy you gain by having a good plug that allows little or no water in the well. Ever seen the Harbor 20 with their swing out trolling motor ( no hole in the boat)

[ebb]

Very rough guesstimate....?
4 feet - one foot wide - across side to side at the transom....
add another 4 feet - one foot wide - across at the bulkhead....
make them one foot deep = 8 cubic feet.
Add another odd shaped 4 feet across UNDER the bulkhead ones....
Total 12 cubic feet volume.... ballpark.
12 X 64 (weight of saltwater per cube) = 768lbs, give or take.

Now add the pounds of water you might have in the cockpit in a storm?

What might the stability of the little ship be..... with a TON of water in it?:eek:
This... in more or less the OPEN end of the Ariel? Always possible, Right??
If the boat is down in the back end, what's going to keep the water out?
A bucket?
.................................................. .................................................. ......................
It occured to me, what with modern reverse transoms with no rear bulkhead
that are completely open for drainage....."Martha, have you seen little Billy....?"
that if you open the access hatch just behind the rudder post in the Ariel, leave it open.
Take the lid/plug off the OB well and leave it open too. BIG scupper, goodbye water.

You'd have to seal that area (and the cockpit) with epoxy or rubber paint so no water
can find its way below into the cabin thru the stern* or cockpit locker lids.

Have yourself a huge exit for anything that comes on board....including a tuna fish.
littlgull has a version of this.....the cockpit and OB well are open and connected together.
Water can't stay in unless the plug is in the hole.
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It's another kettle of fish to keep the stern locker sweet smelling and dry.
Pearson didn't design it to be dry.
BUT, You have to have a working, tightly fastened, gasketed lid for the OB well. You are going
to need it when sailing....because water comes right in the well when the boat is squatting.
So it has to go on & come off in a second - if you have an OB.
Hence, the wingnuts! Must be something better than wingnuts?
.................................................. .................................................. .....................
*Some owners have found that the bulkhead of their well (that's also the cockpit blkhd.) often has a leak.
Some have also found that the foam filled deck around the OB hole is filled with water and
probably gasoline. Water leaking in ends up in the sump or bilge.

[SkipperJer]

Bill, I'd like to believe the collective knowledge here is readily available but I have to agree that the search function is at best clumsy and extremely time consuming. Its a tedious process of sorting through piles of threads thrown back based only on a word search not real relevance.

As a newcomer years ago I was enough of an experienced web user to try the search function many times before I just started posting threads on what were obviously going to be much discussed topics among those who had been around longer than me. I've never failed to get an answer from fellow boat owners and enjoy the interaction with other sailors. Since that interaction is one of the most valuable results from being registered here I can't imagine why I'd go back to trying the word-search based "search" function. The fun of the conversation is way more valuable than the tedium of slogging through word=bingo searches.

[mbd]

Let Google do it: at a Google (or another) search prompt, type the string below:

site:pearsonariel.org "OB well"
-OR-
site:pearsonariel.org "outboard well plug"


It's very slick and just searches the within web address after "site". Also, the quotes tell it to search for that exact string.

And yes, it's not quite as fun as the "conversation". ;)


NOTE: If you cut/paste the above, make sure you don't also copy the URL tags that the forum automatically puts in there.

[Bill]

Also, be sure to put a space following the "dot org" before you start the quote marks. Failing to do that, I just got error messages or links to "wells" and such :mad: We need to add this capability to the user instructions .. . .

[ebb]

Is it possible for the Search window [up at the top of the page here] to already have
www.pearsonariel.org
in the window - so that all a search person would have to do is type in (burp) "OB well" ?

Ok so the search has to be googlized. But google is everywhere.
Maybe a little google hatch could pop open on my server's address bars
when ever I'm on www.pearsonariel.org
that would have the site address typing ready to go....with me needing only to type in the request.
Is this something to ask my company's comptech to do?

Am I understanding that I have to leave the ariel site and go to my home site's address bar
(which I believe is "google-ized") to enjoy this specific access app? Zap!

[mbd]

You can do it without the "www." too to simplify things. i.e. "site:pearsonariel.org sculling" (I edited my original post to reflect this.)

The FireFox browser will also let you add a "Search Engine" using this same idea. I'll have to research it though, it was a long time ago that I last did it.

[captcraig]

I was looking at a Harbor 20 that has a swing out electric motor (trolling motor) that hides in the aft lazerette. Its a nice set up that needs no hole in the bottom of the boat and of course is only for light or no wind as it doesn't have much thrust. You can google Harbor 20 images and see a pic of the set up. I have never been very fond of gasoline on any boat and was thinking of engineering (southern engineering) something similar on my Ariel. Sounds like the outboards tend to leave the boat a little heavy on the stearn. Haven't heard much about the torquedo electric motors but they are a little stronger than the typical trolling motor. Anybody think that sounds crazy? If I had an inboard I would certainly consider the electric conversion
P.S. Bills job must be a pretty tough and thankless job as he has to keep up with all the new comers like me from just blabbing and posting away, so I just want to take my hat off for all the hard work he does. It takes a very vigilant person to keep up with all that. Thanks to Bill I'm already a little better about looking through the old wisdom on here.

[Bill]

P.S. Bills job must be a pretty tough and thankless job as he has to keep up with all the new comers like me from just blabbing and posting away, so I just want to take my hat off for all the hard work he does. It takes a very vigilant person to keep up with all that. Thanks to Bill I'm already a little better about looking through the old wisdom on here.

And, to continue . . . please search on electric outboard motors, etc. There are a couple of people on the board presently involved with making such a conversion. :)

[captcraig]

Searched and searched but didn't see a post on a swing out mount like the ones on the Harbor 20. Probably wasn't holding my mouth right. Maybe the Slocum approach to an auxiliary is the way to go. I certainly enjoy his company anyway.

[captcraig]

Ebb, I suppose if using the outboard hole as a large scupper one could put a large flapper valve in the small access behind the rudder post to prevent back flow. Do you think back flow would be a problem in heavy following seas? I had a Cal 20 with the outboard well in the floor of the cockpit and always expected more slosh than I ever really got. Funny story about that Cal 20 if anybody is interested.

[ebb]

Hope you did see what 'we' have on electric OB motors.
Not only pricey motors like the Torgeedo but also inboard home built electric.

Looks like Harbor 20 Torgeedo is lifted in and out of its mount,
held in place by a sort of bent pipe or tube that obviously also protects the cord.
Torgeedo is also available with its own battery on top of the unit.

Something like this might be adaptable for a stern mount on Ariel/Commander.:cool:

To push an Ariel you'd probably need their newest more powerful machine
that comes at a very powerful price.
.................................................. .................................................. ........................
Capt Craig. A flapper valve in the well sounds like a great idea!
You'd have it fitted in the lid. Now that I think about it..... a duckbill 'valve'
like the ones used in heads would be pretty simple to experiment with.
Water pressure from inside would funnel the water out - but any dollops wanting in
would close the more or less limp 'bills' of the opening.

How about two sheets of rubber one on top of the other (for starters).
The bottom piece is the bendy one that with inside water pressure will bend open.
It wouldn't have to be much of an opening imco to let a lot of water out.
I see it as a wide slit in the material.
The rubber sheet on top is stiffer but still somewhat pliable, to be able to
withstand the shock of possible incoming water, which closes the bendy sheet
against the thicker one.
The slit opening in the lower sheet is offset from the opening in the heavy sheet.

Of course the well itself has to spend some time out of the water stream
to allow water weight inside the well to bend open the lower sheet
- because persistant outside water pressure would not allow drainage.
Idea is like a powerboat transom flapper valve.
The sheet idea might allow the concept to work horizontally.

Needs research and $$$ and time.
Sheet rubber from McMasterCarr.
The OB well RUBBA-DUMPA might be a separate alternative lid.

Or designed something like an access-plate that inserts into a prepared hole in the well lid.
[OK, now, let's talk about marketing this baby!!!;)]

[captcraig]

I don't care what the design is as long as we can call it a Rubba-Dumpa (LOL) I read your post on patents and that is so true, My buddy and I tried to get a patent and after about 10k wasted and realizing that vendors insurance was going to cost 20k we gave up. I actually saw one of the Harbor 20 designs up close and demonstrated. The bent tube was on a hinge and the whole thing swung up and over the side 270 degrees right out of the lazerette. I was pretty impressed. I did see the electric conversion photos (inboard) and the two boats with side saddle type setups. I hope to take A157 on some blue water and think maybe the motor well might be better for wet storage rode, fenders, ect., for now anyway considering how much an electric conversion cost. A157 has a 9.9 setup and after reading the post about wieght I think that I'll be inclined to remove it. Then if I miss the outboard I can just put a lighter one back in.

[Bill]

Maybe a review of A-C significant offshore adventures would be instructive. They represent real world testing of Alberg’s designs.

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1017-Voyage-of-Commander-quot-Faith-quot-Chicago-to-California&daysprune=-1

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?395-Commander-in-March-Issue-of-Sailing&highlight=Mediterranean

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?927-Sailing-an-Ariel-to-Hawaii-and-back&daysprune=-1

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?887-Tony-s-UHURU-%96-Ventura-California-to-Brisbane-Australia&daysprune=-1

www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?777-Passages-on-Ariels/

[captcraig]

Thank you Bill for the post on those voyages, I'll soak it up when I get home from work tonight. I think there is also a guy local to my area that sailed trans-atlantic or tanspac on a Pearson of smaller size, Triton or Ariel not sure. I already have people trying to talk me out of it. I've been dreaming about it since I was 16, hope I'm not too old at 53. Joshua Slocum left when he was 50+, of course he is(was) twenty times the sailor I am.
P.S. a couple of those came up blank

[Bill]

P.S. a couple of those came up blank

Edited & now all active. Added link a to the thread "Passages on Ariels?" where this discussion may get moved :)

[captcraig]

Thank you Bill for sharing Erics voyage. As I read I was very impressed with how bright he was. Was moved when I saw that he had passed away and realized that I had just read something sacred. I would be honored to use some of his good ideas on my boat.

[sinbin]

This may seem a bit heretical, but after sailing "Sinbin" upwind from Angel Island to Fortman Basin against a front, I decided I was sick of bailing. So, we sealed the plug with Sika flex, beefed up the transom from the inside with glass and plywood backing plates, bought an outboard bracket from West, and hung the outboard off the transom. That was in 1995. Three outboards and a standing rigging later, "Sinbin's" transom is still intact. Down below, she is dry as a bone.

[Bill]

Sinbin has been very lucky. In the early 1980's we almost lost an Ariel in the South Bay because of a transom mounted outboard. Nasty, choppy seas down there at times in the afternoon. I'll see if the article still exists in our files.

[sinbin]

Thank you. "Sinbin" has been a lucky boat in more ways than one. Maybe it's the repetition of letters in her name. I am contrite, and the plug is very useable for the next owner.

[carl291]

Thanks Tony,,,, Let me know when you will need my address!!!!!!

[goodsteel53]

I must agree... the search engine on this site is frustrating at the very least, and while no offense is intended to the folks at the top... we love our boats, and this home site-(thank you very much!) ... is there no better search option available? I'm on lots of different sites, and NONE of them have the problems this one causes.

[ebb]

A338 no longer has an OB well that has an original type lid.
For those of you that have this feature, including those with an inboard,
imco it is very possible that a oneway rubber valve could be worked into the lid/hatch cover.

Not my idea to use a duckbill valve to vacate water from a boat.
CRMarine has a small (1") duckbill (actually more like ducktail valve) for draining boats while underway.
Mixed reviews. Looks to me like the valve is just too small.

DUCKBILL CHECK VALVE
OK, go to www.general-rubber.com and take a look at their Flex-Valve 4200 Flanged.
And the 4100 Slip-on that can be hose clamped to pipe.

Valve comes in sizes from 1/2" to 48".....yes, FOUR FEET ! Might find something that would fit thru
the well hatch. I think we're looking for a not your normal everyday valve.
Can see a useful dump valve around 4" - 5" - 6" larger or smaller.....(haven't done the valve volume math.)
Depends on whether you see the OB well as a primary exit for automatic transfer whole cockpit draining.
Getting rid of tons of water quickly is something a cruiser might be thinking about.

Have not seen or held these particular valves. The color data sheet makes the valve's proportion look right, imco.
They are designed to open with very little pressure - which is what we want.
And to work against seawater backflow they'd probably have to be somewhat pliable and stay closed easily.
Come in many natural & synthetic rubbers, I like EPDM or Hypalon.
If you design any part of a dump system that has the rubber duckbill underwater,
would guess you want to keep marine growth at bay. EPDM can't be painted, but airboat antifouling is available.
Good thing about mounting one or two of these things in a lid, is that you can access them for
inspection and maintenance. EPDM would require almost no maintenance. Maybe Lanocote like they do propellers.

Smaller flex-valves might be good for any exit out the hull. Unsightly, but since
rubber duckbills do an important job simply and maybe cheaply, they might become fashionable!
Sorry, haven't priced them.
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:DKICKER-SLICKER
Seems to me, if we have an OB in the motor well, we might find just the right sized duckbill for the WHOLE OB
lower section and propeller (12"?) to fit thru into the water. And when retrieved - by merely pulling the motor
back up thru the gland - it would close and nicely keep water out of the laz.
And still be available for sudden evacuation events !
Maybe add a modified circular Prop-Gard around the blades to get the OB to ease back up?
[Larger sized sleeve valves get very heavy, so while the idea is interesting at least to me, it's not feasible....yet.]

[captcraig]

Dang, just wrote a long comment and lost it. I'll check the General rubber site, sounds interesting. A157 should be home (OKC) soon, snows a melting in N. MI.

[captcraig]

That folded bill check looks like something that might work.