mast electric wiring

[ebb]

Looking around the web trying to get an idea of what is current on mast wiring.
[EDIT The archive thread "All those wires inside my mast gotta go" might add more info.]

Main focus has been, that since the mast is being rigged to allow dipping, or lowering and raising,
how are the electric wires, the VHF coax, going to be handled at the foot of the mast?
Methods vary and the tips, photos and ability of tipsters aiming complexities
at my level of ignorance & confusion ..just flies on by.

There And Back Again is about all aye know of DC wiring.
Most descriptions and even diagrams don't include the Back Again of wiring - which doubles numbers, volumes and weights of wires that must be bundled, supported, passed through conduit (or not)

and out of the side of the mast, probably, and then down thru a deck fitting to a terminal strip inside - or BETTER: something that
will allow actually combining tricolor & steaming wire sets into plugs & receptacles (Deutsch HD10 Series Connectors www.wirecare.com)

Litlgull's mast will have a Hella tricolor plus anchorlight and a Aquasignal 'masthead' steaming/foredeck light combo.

Question. Is this cable a good idea for the harness:
>Ancor Marine Grade Round Mast Series Cable 14/5.<?
The cable has 5 separated/insulated wires encased in a 1/2" diameter vinyl sleeve (white,green,blue,red,black)
and comes in 16lb 100 foot rolls. 30ft of this stuff weighs 4.8lbs. Single 14AWG primaries weigh .69lbs per 30ft. (16AWG primaries are .48lb per 30ft.)
Jamestown has what looks like a great deal: $150 for 100ft, plus cross country shipping! Is this the time time to get electric wire for the mast?


Would take this 14/5 to the masthead for the LED Hella lamp (NaviLED Trio 2NM Tri-Colour Nav Lamp with All Round White Anchor Lamp
- has no strobe function.) 3 wires: Black Negative - Red Positive/4W Port/Stbd/Stern - Blue Positive 2W Anchor.

Is it legal to use this single bundle to make the circuit? (2 returns - the green and white - and wrap a black negative down the bundle to the terminal or connectors... and back to the battery.....3 UP, 3 DOWN = SIX... Correct?)
Seems logical to keep wires conveniently contained thru to the cabin disconnect terminal under the mast and then on to the battery/panel ? ?
About half the roll, 50ft, would reach from masthead to the companionway where the battery box is.

The other half (minus 15') might be used for the AquaSignal at spreader height.
Changing out the original steaming bulb(12V/10W) for a festoon LED.
But the tiny foredeck 12V20W halogen bayonet bulb has no LED retro, yet.
This fixture is also 2 positive, one negative...3 UP, 3 DOWN = SIX.
Assume the foredeck light gets used infrequently, since it's a night vision destroyer.

Need to be set straight on this.....
The Duetsch HD10 series doesn't have a 12 pole plug. There is a 14AWG goldplated six pole plug. A separate plug for each light could be done.
But you'd have to have two 1 1/2 hoses out of the mast and two 1 1/2 thru-decks into the cabin. Unheard of.:eek:
Called up wirecare.com, talked with a very helpful Phillip who told me that the diameter of the six pole plug is 1.14OD (about 1 1/8")
which means that it probably can be passed thru the inside ( 1 1/4") of a Marelon 1 1/2" 253 series hose tailpipe thru-hull.
A second thrudeck would be needed. OR an ondeck junction box that would be impossible to waterproof.

Obviosly plain wires to a terminal strip is going to be the only way. No nice plugs.:o Damn!!!
All cables and coax, with enough room for future cables, and enough room to pull cable and wire spaghetti in and out of the deck, could be routed thru a single 1 1/2" hosebarb fixture.
The antenna cable could have its own Newmar waterproof thru-deck fitting. But if it can have a disconnect I don't know. Have read that coax should be an unbroken run back to the radio - difficult to do! Would like to do away with the VHF antenna on the masthead if possible?
Feedback? Ideas please.
Thanks.

[Commander 147]

Ebb

I'm not an electrical engineer either but I believe I know enough to handle rewiring Destiny and I'm willing to help you in any way I can.

You said you know that you need "there and back again" when it comes to DC wiring. What is not clear is if you know the "back again" does not need to be a seperate wire for each positive cable going up the mast. You can actually use one single negative cable coming back down the mast for all of the positive cables going up the mast as long as the wire (negative side coming down) is large enough to handle all of the return current of all of the electrical devices on the mast being on at the same time. And here is where LED lights really give you an advantage. For example my mast head all around anchor light is an OGM LED light that draws a whopping .15 amp at 12VDC. That is next to nothing and it comes from the factory with a 20ga pigtail. So the wires going up the mast can be much smaller and lighter if you plan to use LED lights.

So for your example you will need a positive cable for your anchor light, another positive cable for your navigation lights, another for the steaming light and one more for the deck light. That's 4 positive cables and one negative for a total of 5 cables going up the mast. The negative cable just needs to be large enough to handle all of the current going up the 4 positive cables.

Also like you Ebb I'm going to have an Aqua Signal combo steaming and deck illumination light on Destiny's mast. And I know that just above the spreaders is the most common place for this light. However using the CAD software I frequently use and after determining that the deck illumination light was at a 15 degree angle to the mast I was able to determine that to get the light to shine 6 foot in front of the mast (2/3's of the way to the bow) I had to mount it at 7'6" from the top of the mast extrusion. When mounted just above the spreaders the light shines only 4 feet in front of the mast or less than half of the way to the bow's stem head fitting.

For Destiny my mast wiring will go up a PVC conduit (which will also keep the wires from getting tangled in the halyards) so I will use 4 individual cables (I'm currently not planning on nav lights at the top of the mast) bundled together in the conduit. These wires will come out of the bottom of the mast through a hole in my pivoting mast step. The hole in the bottom of the mast step will also allow all water to drain out so none will be left sitting inside the mast to cause corrosion. These wires will feed forward to just behind the forward hatch where they will go through the deck via a Seadog Line 4 pin connector model 426264-1.

My VHF antenna cable will come out of the mast at the same location as the DC wires. To penetrate the deck I'm using a ScanStrut water proof deck seal DS21A-S. This deck seal allows me to pull a cable end up through the deck with the soldered connector in place when I unstep the mast. And while a continuos VHF cable would be the ideal, it just is not practical for me. So I will use a barrel connector just below the deck to connect the mast cable to the cable routed inside the boat for the VHF.

I don't know if any of this helps you with your plans but if not I will try to answer any questions you have. I say "try" because you tend to come up with some pretty good questions.

[ebb]

Thank you, Jerry.
Did order a 100 foot spool of 14/5 from Jamestown. Enough for a single run to & from the the Hella.
From RI across country to CA - wonder what the carbon footprint cost is for that bit of recklessness?
Anyway, if I do come to my senses with your help, and use smaller AWH guage, the wire jacket might be striped and 14AWG singles used elsewhere in the boat..
Still, my assumption is, for EACH nav light: 2 positive THERE and 2 positive BACK-AGAIN with two negs - one of which can be combined into a shared BackAgain with the second light. Still is two wires. Understand the combined BackAgain single might have to be a heavier wire to take the load.

Haven't done the math - but from what you say the 2NM LED Hella won't be pulling much juice either!
The Trio uses 8-28V - consumes less than 2W combined. All round White Anchor less than 2W. Comes with a separate 18" of 3core cable 3X0.75mm(?) with a female plug.
SUPPORTING THE HARNESS
Did estimate that an all 16AWG changeout out for the 14AWG would save about 3lbs in the mast. It's still 11 wires.
Instead of pvc conduit (not knocking it) An interesting alternative is to insert wire bundles into singlebraid polypropelene rope, using it as conduit, and then stretch the rope tight with the cable INside it between eyes or thrubolts at the masthead and the base, thereby hugging, protecting, and supporting the cable. Pull wire out of the braid anywhere. Don't know yet if a 1/2"D cable can be inserted into a 1/2" single braid. I would have four ropes in the mast. Two, up & down, for each light unit. And a fifth for the coax.
In tube conduit you'd still have to support the wire bundles, and guess you have to use those woven metal constriction devices that tighten around wire when you hang'em (like the singlebraid.) Can't remember if I saw them in stainless - It may have been their cost that put me off. The braid idea (gotten from a sailor's blog, which I can blueline here...) will be great later on if the base insert and the masthead fitting are installed with easy removal in mind (hex cap screws, butyl, Forespar TEF45 or Tefgel.) - easy to extract the bundles.

AQUASIGNAL
Must admit that a Cad is a gigantic Detroit convertible from the '60s with fins.
So I found the 1/2 sheet instructions that came in the box with the AquaSignal. One side shows how to mount it - but not where. Reverse side has a sort of chart that when I actually looked at it was a lux or lumen chart showing what happens to the foredeck light at various heights off the deck - like your Cad, I presume. The little drawing seems to confirm your finding:
One lux (lx on the pic) = one lumen per square meter (wikipedia)
One lux is the ambient light of a full moon overhead in the tropics. 100 lux is a very dark overcast day.
At one meter from the light source we have a small cone of 520lux. At two meters the cone of light has increased minimally but the lux has drastically dropped to 130 ! Add a third meter more and it's now 58lux. At 4.5 meters, about where our A/C spreaders are, we have 27lux and a 17degree light-cone on deck - which indicates that the illuminated border stops about 2+ meters (7ft) out from the foot of the mast. (My extrapolation from AquaSignal's picture.)

The fixture is sold as a "masthead/foredeck light". The little chart certainly assumes that one
placement of the light in their illustration is 32.80 feet above the deck producing 5.2lux at the deck in the dark.
A 4+ meter wide light-cone from the mast. It's about 6lux for our 30ft mast, if you wanted the light at the nasthead.. Quite a difference from the one meter light intensity of 520lux to a rather piddly 5.2lux 10 meters below on deck (in their pic.)

USED AS A STEAMING LIGHT
CoastGuard regs have a certain number of feet separating steaming light from the nav lights on deck that you need to turn on when you want to be a power boat. Since this combo has a navigation function, THAT prevails and the foredeck light is secondary, and merely convenience. Too lazy to look it up right now, but it's about a minimal ten feet vertical separation we must have between the red/green lights on the cabin or in the pulpit & on the stern and the steaming light above on the mast.
On a light colored deck there may be enough reflecting illumens escaping the downlight cone at 4.5 meters above the deck - and extrapolated 27lux
with the light cone border at 2+ meters forward from the mastbase. Have no concept of how much light that actually is.
There is also a shadow problem. Someone working the foredeck would be in the way of the lumens coming from the mast. There isn't a single sailing sog on the web who'd confess to wanting the combo light at the masthead.
And it is a lumen problem with a halogen change-out because no LED is yet made that matches the punch that tiny bayonet bulb can produce. A baseball cap with some LEDs in the brim might do better!

For now.
Thanks Jerry. I'm not going to let this go just yet!
Sure like to see how YOU tilt your mast with a central wire feed into the mast cavity. I'm set up for a SantaCruz/Huntington roll version which just
rolls the mast to lower it without adding a plate for a hinge. The front 2 inches on the mast is radiused and plugged with a 3" tall glue-up chunk of G-10 - which certainly could use a lightening hole thru it to pass wire cables into the mast from inside the cabin. Have ordered EPDM chemical rubber tube from McMC for a mast side exit into the deck. Would be nice if the tube could stay clamped when dipping, probably not.....
Have no clue how to waterproof the access if it went thru the bottom plate that the mast sits on. Howzit done? Certainly cleaner....
Would like to see your rig for the upper shroud 'hinge' for the lowering/raising - hope you can share that plate of spaghetti ! !

[Full and By]

EBB,
re: mast wiring bundle
A couple of years ago I refitted a Norwalk Islands Sharpie that had internal halyards inside an unstayed composite spar. I put large wire ties...industrial grade long ones from home depot...about every 18 inches or so ... and let the long tails on. They're sufficiently stiff to prevent the wandering of the bundle inside the spar, and won't foul the halyards. It worked great and I'll use it again. Not my idea...I saw it somewhere and copied it.

[ebb]

Full&By sir,
yes, nylon ties left long in the mast, gets a lot of pros and very few cons in cruiser forums..

And your mentioning it :cool:gets me thinking that ONE polypro cord stretched from the bottom to the top inside, instead of having its center filled with wire just be used to support the bundle by simply tying the bundle to the cord. With nylon ties!

Conceptually,
it's arguable that mast wire in conduit is the best way to go with new work because that way the wire is guaranteed NOT to move. Moving wire in a mast causes wear and woe and any number of problems down the line. Leave a couple fish lines in the conduit, so you can add another couple wires or data cable later on. Couldn't do that with an octopus nest of nylon tie.

So, at this moment, for this project,
one cable bundle goes to the masthead for the tri-color.
The coax VHF antenna cable goes separately to the masthead.
Another bundle goes to the Aquasignal combo light.

I'm guessing they all could share the SAME ONE SUPPORT ROPE using ties.
Maybe the polypro could be changed out for a no stretch dyneema cord. Quarter inch?
Or even a 1/16" s.s. wire* (which I read about on one site and now think something like also works with the nylon ties.)
However, a synthetic cord is more squeezable and imco would guarantee that nothing moves, up or down or sideways for the next decade, all bound together like that.
Believe I read where one guy blunted the sharp cut ends of the ties by melting them. For this weight of wire have the long-tail ties closer spaced. 12"?

The mast has to be horizontal for this - with masthead and base ends removed.
So I imagine you'd build the harness by the side of the mast, and when ready pull it thru with the suspension rope.
Stainless eyes fastened inside the mast provide anchor points for tying off.
A two fastener fairlead eye type fitting might be better, as a single shank eye might get cranked badly off the mast wall.
A 5/16" thrubolt might be better - it would, inside the mast, be a ROD to attach strap shackles to -
and might allow some positioning of the whole wire deal, especially for those with internal halyards.
The tighter the support rope/wire the better for the cable clinging on to it AND the lead going from the bundle to the light fixture.
These leads off the bundle to individual fixtures outside the mast are precarious and worrisome. At this point!
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*This guy didn't say if he used a mini turnbuckle to get tension on this wire - but that is a good possibility!

[Full and By]

Hi Ebb,

The eye to secure the strain relief cord is a good idea if you're going to take the mast head casting off...a huge task on most older boats due to corrosion for a number of reasons. I have used nylon cord in the past just fine. It's easy to make up the single harness next to the mast...you'll get the proper exit point for the wires to the combo light below the spreaders. I always use the strain relief cord with a binding hitch around the bundle every foot or so..just loom it up all the way down the mast. I also always put in a spare messenger or two...nylon chalk line works well....parallel to the bundle (not in the bundle...)when I pull it in in case I need to replace a single, bad bad wire for one reason or another.

fwiw...2 cents

best,

Bill

[Full and By]

IMHO, plugs never work except for the day you install them, and wiring hanging inside the mast just attracts the yard goons that want to bang in around in the yard so they can strip off the insulation, or cut it off when they step the mast.....or so I can make the wrong connections in the 3 minutes I have to splice it up when the mast is being stepped at the yard. This error will last for an entire season..a luminous monument to my own stupidity that instant.

So I like the wiring exiting the side of the mast near the heel and getting the whole bundle down below where it is clean and dry (of course) and well lit to make the connections in a terminal strip or J-box.

Take a look at these pics. I've used this technique before and it gets a little better every time.

[Full and By]

Your mast wiring bundle enters the cap through a semicircular hole in the edge of the cap at deck level, rises up over the rounded lip of the deck ferrule, then descends below deck to a J-box just ahead of the mast support on the overhead. Boat wiring comes up the mast support and exits the support near the top...to the J-box. You can put terminals on the wires and keep them on through the seasons ...they'll fit through the ferrule. While not "watertight" (it would leak if the boat were to become a submarine all of the sudden) it relies on the principle that water will not, generally, run uphill. It's a pretty dependable principle. I've used this 4 times over the last 15 years and I'm happy with it. I like fiddling with my wiring connections sitting on a bunk with a beer nearby, not bent double, upside down, bifocals inverted, making the wrong connection with one hand in the dark. I love that the A/C 's have deck stepped spars for this and many other reasons.

Have fun,

Bill

[ebb]

Hey Bill, Thanks for the spare change!

Way more than that, it's an eye opener for me.
Ideas that work. Ideas that are working.
Thanks for sharing.

Getting top and bottom aluminum castings off A338's mast was a humbling experience.
Don't believe it is an experience to share - it was in a word a PITA.

But I will recommend that it be done. SOON.
Of course if your A/C has been in freshwater for 45 years, you probably can and should take the fittings off to see what you got.
Making the decision to remiove the corroded mess on a saltwater boat is an individual call.
It all depends on your relationship with the water gods.

I know now that the mast on A338 was long overdue for renovation when I got to it.
When I first bought the boat I sailed it without proper instruction for a little, not a lot. The gods were with me - the mast couldn't have gone another nautical mile in San Francisco Bay!

Thanks for the binding hitch alternative and telling that a messenger line will work just as well for a tied bundle if you do it right!:D
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LATER EDIT
Bill, yor next post (#8) snuck in while I was hunt and pecking my response to yor first (#6).
Can say that A338's mast is now redesigned as a rocker, a no tabernackle forward lowering and raising mast. I think I understand Jerry earlier saying that he also is planning on a lowering mast but I don't know how he's doing it because I think I understand him saying that his internal mast wires will go inside the cabin thru a hole in the center of his mast step.
Believe I responded that I didn't think this was possible. The mast moves (ROLLS in my case) forward when being lowered, which means that the wires will be pulled out of the entry hole by the mast while this is happening. Of course the wire terminals will be off the block, would be removed, to allow this if there isn't slack. My imagination toggle has been misfunctioning recently so I may be facing the solution for this problem without actually seeing it. Original Pearson entry was thru a maybe 3/4"D three inch tall pipe in the center of the mast step - which is fine if you remove your mast the $250 marina way. Maybe Jerry will have a very short collar there. Possible!

[ebb]

OK, Bill, I think words in the posts above were changing as I was reading them!

You've got a nice simple system there, as you say, that's good for tinkering.
But wouldn't be too impossible to more than temporarily waterproof with RV butyl tape(not-putty).
And something - a couple short machine screws threaded thru the cap, run into correspoding no thread holes in the upright thru fitting - to keep the cap from getting lost!

Who would have thought of altering the mast step underneath for wire conduit with a simple cove cut into the base with a router? Nice!
Assume that of course.
Haven't done it, but can you really get the wires to do those sharp turns? Wouldn't have thought it possible! Under the mast step.... yes. But under the cap and over the stand up....?

BUT....there are plenty of others here, who aren't rolling their masts, who can use this innovative and direct method.
Your way with the cap, would work just as well for wires coming out the side of the mast.
The wires could be protected where exposed with self-amalgamating tape. (Rescue Tape)

Still waiting for Jerry to tune back in with his solution to direct under mast wire entry. Be SO O O O much simpler !

[Full and By]

Ebb,

Tell me the story about getting the mast head off...did you use chains and a V-8 SUV?

Sawzall?

A small fire of some sort?

I need to do it, I know.

My boat came from freshwater Lake Union, Seattle, in 2011 but spent most of it's life...so far... among the San Juans saltwater.... Standing rigging renewed about 10 years ago, and fitted then for a very nice Schaffer furler. I bought a new North 135% jib last summer and the main is newer and looks great. All new running rigging last summer...I use two-part dyneema halyards so cabintop winches are not required any longer. Some pics are in technical:"Painting C-295's deck"

[Commander 147]

Bill

I'm sure Ebb will tell you his story but I can tell you when I took mine off I was not able to salvage a single screw that held the mast head in place. I ended up drilling them all out, having the old holes in the mast welded shut and when I put it back on I will need to locate the new screws in a new location to avoid the remaining portion of the old screws firmly inbedded in the mast head. They are now part of the head much like a tree entwines it's roots in the soil it grows from.

[Commander 147]

Ebb

I'm tuning back in to show you what I am doing with Destiny's mast wiring. My setup is probably differant than yours but like you my mast will raise from the front of the boat. I'm using the pivoting mast step that came with destiny and have already designed my lifting system which will use the boom as a gin pole and the mast will be stabilized with temporary baby stays. My boom will be relocated in the vang pivot location during mast raising.

But back to the subject at hand. The first picture is of the mast base mounted to the pivoting mast step.8334 You can see a hole in the mast base in this second picture that I will also drill through the stainless mast pivot it is mounted to. Then the wires will come out from under the mast and go forward to where they will go down through the deck. The first picture shows the area where the wires will come out from between the top and bottom of the mast pivot8335.

[ebb]

Jerry, that's a neat mast plate indeed.
I still have the front hinged Buzz Ballenger version (1/2" pin!) that has the top plate sit flat on top of the bottom one. Not using it.
I like your lofted version because it will allow having a taller collar fitting thru the deck. To resist incidental moisture. My new Huntington Beach style rolling mast sits on another Ballenger plate inside a couple tall vertical plates welded to it, that the bolt goes thru: thru both plates and the mast with the pivot at exactly two inches off the plate the mast rolls & sits on! The plate will most likely be blocked up to the correct height if needed.
So I might construct a collar of sorts. But it's not going to happen.

The possible hole for the wires, inside a very constricted mast footprint, will no doubt bend wires too radically when lowering the mast. A wire 'bundle' is not limp and rope-like They will bind. Maybe a TWO inch diameter scupper could lead unbending wires thru without hanging up anywhere? Yah sure! Waterproofing that would be no problem, would it?

Just checked back to your post. Good thing, because there I discovered that you are entering the mast wires thru the deck well forward toward your pivot. Why didn't I see that? Denial? Anyway that is the only place where there are less corners, so to speak, for the bundle to hang up on. It's only a few inches at the most but it obviously it'll be enough. And below, there's the aesthetic of dangling wires dang in the middle of it all.
Not possible for litlgull's mast because the front of it is cutaway into a radius. Have no doubt yours works as planned!
I'm sure you'll have it figured to lower & raise without messing with the wires at all! That's the deal.

Wonder if I'll be able to do something similar with a rubber umbilical hose off the side of the mast. That's the challenge.
One problem is to find a protective tube of great flexibility that will allow everthing to stay in place when bending through 90 degrees. Don't believe a super flexible UV stable rubber hose exists. Maybe bicycle tire tube?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
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PVC TUBE INSTALLATION
A 'guest' was looking at an old thread: "All those wires inside my mast gotta go" on the whoz-online-page, so I peeked in.
It's the one Scott Galloway started. At the end of the second page, at post #26, bill@ariel231 shows a very neat (if a bit messy) way of attaching pvc tube to the inside of the mast - WITHOUT RIVETS. Thread dates from 2007. Wonder if it's still attached?
Have to go there to find out how........
[:confused:mmumble-snarf..how does bill the magician get 6 wires? for the steaming light that is half? the distance up the mast? to turn out the bitty? hole in the side? of the conduit - and then out? the side of the mast?...mumbull...ah humm...?]<brain drain in process.
Not even a well trained mouse with a messenger line taped to its tail could do it...
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
way later EDIT: FullnBy Bill asked a direct question about getting the cast aluminum fitting out of the top of the mast. Running thru the thread
I realize he may not have been kidding.
A338 must have always been a saltwater boat. The masthead casting is rough pitted and shows its history.
It is visually still strong:
The stay clevis pin holes show minor wear after four decades. But the flanges the holes are drilled thru are gnawed and gouged.
Can't recall exactly, but having this fitting right here I can see that four of the six tapped holes have been drilled out. Two of the holes have the remains of the old screws at strange angles still inside the holes. There were also some added screws that may be remains of that jib-block tang that
caused disasterous corrosion to the aluiminum above the sheave box, eating it away. There was I remember a great white pad of oxide under the
tang. At the time I didn't understand what that stuff was, I thought it was some kind of bondo caulk!
Essentially the removal process was drilling out existing and broken screws with cobalt bits, probably with increasing bit sizes. It knocked out finally. But it was welded on and compacted with white oxide. These fasteners were/are right at the top of the mast, so I must have been as careful as I can.:rolleyes:
The eight or so empty holes are now filled with LabMetal. The sheave slot - corroded open to the top of the mast - may have made it easier to knock out the casting. The casting is imco still pretty massive and heavy. Don't think it's crystallized. Originally a very nice casting. And amazing that rigging was directly connected to it all this time. Almag.
The corrosion up top may have been helped along by stray electrical currents from wiring. Almag cleats, in almost new condition, had to be destroyed to remove them, because the fastenings were corro-welded to the mast. Had to saw off the heel casting - nothing could be done to get that SOB out. In fact the corrosion and perhaps the immense pressure of the mast on the step belled out the extrusion all around the bottom - so it was really jammed!

I'm convinced that anytime we put any metal next to any metal - aluminum to aluminum especially - we must completely isolate the pieces. Decommissioning A338's mast is a great lesson in aluminum corrosion. Can't merely use tape to isolate. Use a teflon paste in every screw hole and between every piece of contact metal AND any other kind of material like winch pads and thru-mast fittings. Use 20mil underground plastic tape and
teflon gel.

[ebb]

Raising & lowering an A/C mast with the navigation harness going thru the step is something
aye hadn't believed possible untill Jerry said he was doing it that way.

You know, so how is he going to do it?
Whether your step hinges on the front of the mast or rolls like the Huntington Beach/Santa Cruz method, the mast does move forward as it dips AND aft again as it comes up to vertical.
It's not much but the harness as it goes thru the step into the cabin has to negociate an immovable and constrained access hole.
The wire in the hollow of the mast can be positioned anywhere but the limited placement of the hole thru the step has to allow the harness to adjust as the mast lowers - and at the same time it is apparantly lengthened forward into a curve.
So it has to be somewhat flexible but still stiff and smooth enough to return to its normal position.

The second problem is waterproofing the hole under the step - coming thru the mast step. Woke up this morning thinking about this -
but didn't have the bright-light revelation you're supposed to get. Maybe it's as simple as putting a hose barb riser (and some way to access a hose clamp) over the hole. A piece of hose could simply extend up into the mast... length yet to be determined : guess 6 to 10 inches. Hose piece and harness in it has to take care of itself when the mast is doing its 90 degree thing. In other words the hose piece would stay captured (not attached) in the mast when the mast is entirely horizontal in the pulpit. You'd see the hose in a tight radius bending 90 degrees into the mast after it's lowered. Its role, along with keeping deck water out, is guiding the wire harness, keep it from kinking. Mast in lower case, the hose might want to flatten a little!

The necessary, adjustment of the harness will be entirely rigged in the hollow of the mast - where there's plenty of room. Harness slack will come off the end of the support rope/cable/tube at the bottom of the mast, maybe it's an extra loop, an extra length of harness to suspend to aid in lining the cable up with the flexible tube. Has to be determined by experiment.
Perhaps an S-CURVE loop of harness could be controlled by a coil spring or bungee. Maybe it's merely matter of keeping the maststep tube lined up with the harness. The harness leads into the hose and barb which is as far aft in the mast footprint as possible, but it may turn out to be closer to the middle of the footprint than the pointy end.
The harness lead inside the cabin has to be tightly locked in place so wires cannot pull away from the terminal block.

SO, the harness/wire/cable is not actually vertically moving at any time. It is attached to the mast or conduit or strain-relief rope. But maybe we need a little added wiggle room at bottom to deal with the hose in the step.
Neither does the hose actually move, it is attached to the deck. Neither is it that the cable moves in the hose - it is the hose moving over the cable. It is the mast changing position that's moving.
The harness needs guidance to stay relative to the hose opening - so it can't get hung up. Maybe a 1.50" hose is the way to go. Big hole - a big barb - big yet short piece of fat slippery polyethylene hose. Harness wire is stiff, if it bends it may want to stay bent. That's a problem!
It may turn out that no finagling is needed at all with springs and bungees - the harness may slip in and out of the pipe unaided. But there is a rub....
Crossbeam in the Ariel is right underneath the mast step. Attempting to avoid the beam, the cable opening into the maststep may have to be made at an angle, rather than vertical. Barb hose fitting could be 90 on the deck - but the hole thru the deck has to avoid the beam as much as possible so as not to weaken it. It's probable that wires have to exit into the cabin side of the beam - aeshetically a real pain! Ariels may have to use the alternative mast side/thru deck access to lead cable into the V-berth area where more casual cable curves are acceptable.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________
The challenge is to be able to lower the mast by yourself. If you don't want to do it alone, with casual help you would be able to take it down and pull it up again with a little practice - without having to pay exorbitant fees. I believe Ariel/Commanders are the perfect boat for this skill.
The ability to dip & raise the mast at will for an obstruction ought to be in every rigging upgrade. This ability would sell the boat when it comes to that. Cool, if the mast is down and horizontal on the deck when the boat is ready to haul for the winter. Or even to refresh its bottom.

Jerry, can you reveal a little more on your thinking on this problema? Please...... A Greatful Robber!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____

THE SAILOR'S SKETCHBOOK
One way of rigging for SINGLE-HANDED MASTING is explained & illustrated in detail by BRUCE BINGHAM in his Sailor's Sketchbook, International Marine 1983.
His sketches appeared in Sail magazine from 1974 through 1983. It's out of print and should be republished.
The book is a masterpiece - his expose on SINGLE-HANDED MASTING a revelation in itself
- and moreso because his drawings show what has been proven to work. Mast wiring harness is not covered.

It's my lookout to make the 5pg copy of Bingham's great How-To
available to anyone (no cost) who sends me an address on the 'private' mail channel we have here. Tried to cleanup some page notes of mine.
NOTIFICATIONS in tiny letters on the bar at the top of the menu page is the only clue to activity. I never notice it, so prod me here in the Forum if I don't respond promptly.
I go now to Patt's Copy World and make a dozen sets.

[Full and By]

Here is a photo of the terminal block where mast wiring is terminated. Note the hole in the overhead that is the bottom of the deck ferrule, and the hole in the mast support for the boat wiring that leads back to the panel. Access...is the key advantage here.

I will probably replace this Home Depot terminal block with a proper junction box when I get around to finding one....

[Commander 147]

[QUOTE]Jerry, can you reveal a little more on your thinking on this problema? Please...... A Greatful Robber!

Ebb

One of the things I cannot do is feed the mast wiring directly into the cabin from under the mast. I do not want to compromise the support beam that supports the mast. So my wires will just be hanging out of the bottom of the mast while I raise the mast and then the electrical wiring will hook to the deck terminal forward of the mast. The VHF cable will go through a deck seal next to the deck terminal for the elec. wiring.

So my mast raising method is greatly simplified and will look something like the picture below. The thin red lines show the baby stays that will stabilize the boom and mast during the raising process. They will all be removed and stowed below once the mast is in place.

[ebb]

Wheeeew! That's a relief! But inner eye says it can be done. It'll just take making an actual fullscale model, maybe a fiberglass rep of the mast's bottom 3' - and experiment. A time consuming venture, especially if I did it!
I feel the cable lead would go thru nearer the pointy end of the mast footprint. Cables could enter thru the Ariel maststep and miss the compression beam, but be on the main cabin side. Not good.

If you had a hollow compression post you could bring the cables in thru the Commander hole-in-step to a terminal block cut into the tube!
Take the wires down to the cabin sole and from there lead aft thru cabin furniture?

We be warned by experts about making radical turns with coax.
But, having just done a bunch of web crawl on the VHF anomaly, no company cable specs mention the caution. In fact the spec sheet for Times Microwave Systems LMR-400-UF advertises its stranded center conductor and outer rubber jacket is designed for multiple bending/flexing cycles.
So..... cable contortions thru litlgull's accomodation isn't an issue - at the moment.
(LMR400 has a VOP of 85% compared to RG214U with 66%. LMR dilectric foam is said to be closed cell polyethylene, which protects the conductor from Connector Leak* - because salt moisture won't wick into the body of the cable. VOP is 'Volocity Of Propagation' - speed of electrical signal thru cable.) Everybody seems to love LMR. But even if it's flexible, it is 3/8" diameter.

If the mast is to be lowered without disconnecting from the inside terminal (a worthy challenge) I think the cables can just as well come out the side of the mast and enter thru-deck into the V-berth area, where exposed cable is a little more hidden and easier to manage.

I'm guessing that IF the bundle exits the mast and dives into the deck takes a longer curve (comes out of the mast higher up) - and if the deck entry is forward** of the tilting axis of the mast - a generously BOWED bundle might make this SECOND sideways bend without having to unclamp the hose off the deck barb and yank the wires out (previously disconnected from the terminal.)
This has to be figured out - because the HINGED MAST DOES MOVE FORWARD when being lowered.
There has to be enough of the cable transition hose available because it is not going to stretch. It's an attitude adjustment.
We want the cable bundle to be neutral, so to speak. Don't want wire to get bent out of shape. Drip loop & cable coil inside mast bottom may contribute some looseness if any strain or twisting is caused by raising/lowering.
It's a problem for a front hinged step - a rolling mast needs a couple inches - but the front hinged step has at least six to negociate.
**It would seem that placing the cable thru-deck more forward of mast vertical could 'catch up' with the mast's forward position when lowered. The forehatch on an Ariel allows little forward thru-deck placement. - not enough for a full 6" offset. R&D needed. Don't know about the Commander.

COAX APPARTHEID QUESTIONS
We are cautioned in forums that coax should not be bundled with the nav cable. Nor cuffed together with ties or together sharing the same PVC conduit. What are the proximity rules? Coax and nav wires share the MASTconduit. Can they be bunched at the foot to make the transit out of the mast and thru the deck? What about the run aft to the panel? Can they be close, or must the VHF be entirely separate from electrics?

Haven't yet found a protective hose/tube to cover the trasition bundle. Maybe a bendy reinforced polypropylene helix A/C hose. But a piece of "Lay-Flat" Water Discharge Hose is thinner and more likely to take an odd bend as the mast is raised/lowered. Cheaper, UV protected, and easy to replace.
Much of this fine tuning won't matter if the setup is limited to getting the mast down and up twice a year.
If masting is finessed, it's more likely that the uber upper two thirds will get more attention. However, when the mast is in the pulpit, it's dangerously over-balanced and the top out or reach. To be inspected & worked on, it has to be disconnected anyways and shifted aft over the boat.

The Ancor 14/5 cable arrived from Jamestown.. It is a honkin 1/2"D white cable with five colored wires packed tightly together with some kind of extra insulation filling all space between the singles. Looks like it has to be kept DRY. Stranded wire and the cable is bendy - but it's stiff. Makes me think that it could work (as proposed) in a tube delivery THRU THE MAST STEP. The LMR coax as well. These items come rolled, and therfor have a memory curve that's useful positioning cables in an interior tube for the mast-down bend. Imco the thru-hole in the step could be made to work!

But any more R&D here is not happening. So it's out the side of the mast, and in this Ariel, into the V-berth. Figure with allowances for easy curves, ups and downs, and the ubiquitous drip loop ...50' may NOT be enough length from the masthead. Likely a 60' piece of LMR for enough slack. Per foot cost is about the same as the 14/5. Pricey. Not including "harsh environment connectors", and all the other doodahs.


QUESTION about 14/5
Is it OK to use this 14/5 for There-and-Back Again wiring? Up one set of colors - back another set of colors - IN THE SAME CABLE? ? ? Thanks!

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
* Look into Coax-Seal and Coax-Wrap. The wrap is a silicone based self-amalgamating tape.
The seal comes in rolls like butyl tape with paper separator. After wrapping the connectors, form it and squish it into a tight molded seal.
They say t's removable after being cooked in the elements without contaminating the connectors or the cable.

[ebb]

Hey Jerry,
Looks like you might be a 'friend of the sketchbook'. [tho I don't see that particular sketch in the Bingham article.]
On the last page Bingham tells us that his famous cat never was.
Altho there were cats he modeled "along the way: Fingers, Jasmine, Gotcha, Geraldine and others."

But 'Sherman Hoyt' was a real mouse!

Who Bingham says (in past tense, since it's been 30 years since the Book's publication) "Carried his own passport (a certificate of origin, complete with photo, customs stamps, bill of health and the associated array of paperwork) to alleviate problems of entry into foreign ports. He was more a source of fascination to boarding officials than a hindrance, more than once diverting the attentions of inspectors from a questionable cargo of grapefruit."


There's been talk here over the years of "masting" as Bingham calls it - BUT none to my knowledge has shown us how they do it

:DSo it's up to you, Jerry, to document the deed for us - AND SHOW US HOW IT'S DONE.:cool:

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________
"As I approached the St. Augustine Bridge while heading north from Miami in the Intracoastal Waterway,
I clearly saw dozens of saiboats lying at anchor on both sides of the span.
Within seventy yards of the bascule, I spotted the sign...."Out of Order".
A passing skipper then informed me that the bridge would not be operating for five days.
So, I simply lowered my mast and chugged under the roadway." Bruce Bingham's intro to his 'Single-Handed Masting" article.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________
....Just attempted to find out something about this treasure we've been robbing all these years.
Of course google, as usual, goes diddling off the subject ASAP, playing word games like some stoned-out junkie...
So much pleasure this guy has given us
....where is Bruce Bingham's photo, bill of health, and associated array of paperwork ? ?

[Commander 147]

Ebb

I fully intend to show how I do it. I am very confident in my method because it is very similar to methods I have used previously and because a good sailing friend of mine who is also an engineer helped me with the math to engineer the system in a manner that the loads on any of the members were not to high. He was working on his mast raising system at the same time we worked out mine and he has been using his for a year now.

I am in the middle of the recore on the starboard side of Destiny right now which praise the Lord is not as bad as the port side was. I put some balsa in the bow this morning. When I finish the 4 spots I have opened up now I will be at a point where I can actually set things up to try it out. That will allow me the chance to show you the system and size my new shrouds and get them ready at the same time.

Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the Sketchbook (YET) but was able to find the picture from my previous post in Daniel Spurr's "Guide to Upgrading Your Cruising Sailboat". I think I need to add the Sketchbook to my wish list for birthday's and Christmas and maybe my daughters or grandkids will be able to get it for me. This is my 4 year old grandson Nathan who I think will be my sailing buddy and possibly the future owner of Destiny.

[ebb]

Proud Gramps, Fearless Nathan, Nifty hats, Cool cheaters!:cool:

Adventure ahead! That's one great photo!:D

[ebb]

Here are some mock ups of the mast to deck hose/cable connect.

[ebb]

[The mock-up is for a radiused forefoot mast. Imco a front hinged mast-step, apropos the hose, makes no difference in what the hose does.]
First photo
Mast vertical. The hose is TPR* rubber with an external polypropylene helix support. It's vacuum hose and looks tidy but would be better with a smooth exterior.
Second pic
Mast down. Hoses when they get thick walled become very unbendy. In this photo conventional lay-flat fire hose is tried - and with the mast horizontal it's in quite a twist. 'Lay flat' 1 1/2" polyester fabric over nitrile or buna'N rubber. Not really an exterior product.
Third
is a side-on view of the duct hose. The deep loop is slightly collapsed which means it is under pressure.
But note that the thru-deck fitting is accessable, and with the mast temporarily in the pupit the clamps can be unscrewed, the cables removed from the interior terminal, and the wires 'easily' pulled up out of the deck.
Assume the horizonal mast position is a rare occurance.
Fourth
shows the ducting again and the tight radius loop. You can see mock cables of old stiff anchor warp coming thru the ply.
Fifth photo
shows blue low-pressure pvc on pvc lay-flat water discharge hose. It's about as pretty as
the firehose when it bends, but it's cheap and extra length would store in a neat tight roll.

They all are about 18" L. The hoses are 1 1/2"ID. The fittings are Forespar Marelon and will have the dubious distinction of the hosebard installed on the exposed side of the mast and the deck. Inside fitting diameter is 1 1/4", which is not much of a hole to pull wire and connectors thru. But it is 1/3 more area than what the 1" gives in wire room.
The flange nut is rather loose making water-tight installation problematical.
The mock cable does not move in any of the hoses due to the action of lowering and raising.
It looks like the straight tails will make for less radical cable bends and easier wire dismantling. IMCO.

It is amazingly difficult to find a nice smooth hose for the job. Many ducts with better ozone and UV credentials have spring steel wire in the helix. So some very flexible hose cannot be used. Hose with plastic helix is never very flexible. But might be used like the duct hose example.
First choice in rubber would be EPDM, but it turns out this stuff is always thicker than thinner and while flexible might not make the tight loop seen in the test.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________
*TPR (also TPE, TPU) is also found as ARH Thermoplastic Rubber Hose. A mix of vulcanized rubber and styrene thermoset plastic. It has a polypropylene helix wear strip added onto the plastic-rubber tube.
As we can see nobody has a brand on it yet, known or is mis-known by acronyms. Said to have good ozone and UV resistance. ARH has a nice piratical sound (Wallace Beery), hope that's the one that sticks !
No advertiser seems to know what the acronym stands for: ARH could mean AirRubberHose OR ArmedReconnaissanceHelicopter OR AromaticHydrocarbonResin, take yor pick.
MacMasterCarr has 1 1/2"ID for $3.86ft in 5' pieces (pg233) Can be had in FDA all white for that special yachtsy look. [Most catalogers sell hose only in full coils of 25-50-100ft.]

[Commander 147]

Ebb

One comment about your options. You might find that the jib sheet catches on the tubes every time you tack. I had a problem with that on my last boat and had to devise a shield to keep it from happening. That is why I plan to keep my connections low to the deck and behind the forward hatch where they will be less of a trap for the jib sheet.

[ebb]

Jerry,
Meant to see if the deal was possible.
Haven'tn seen anybody else do it. I'd really like to see what others have done.
This more-or-less waterproof solution is only a compromise. Had to find out where the hole in the mast was going!
I'm supposed to be painting the mast.

Maybe a temporary short line can be set up off the mast to the cabin top that would keep the sheet off the tube ?

On the Ariel I put in a larger Bomar hatch which left a bare two inches for the barb fitting.
That two inch space is right up against the strongback inside. But inside the V-berth.
Believe an unaltered hatch and strongback Ariel will have more wiggle room.
It will require some work to get the fitting in.
The position in the mockup photos represents the only place on A338 where there is a chance of getting the cable inside.
Do your jib sheets come back THAT close to the mast.....?


Tried various locations using the slots in the ply. There has to be a dozen other, better ways of doing it.
Chose the deck fitting to be as close to the mast step as possible.
Tried different lengths of hose. The hose led me to the taller position on the mast.
The mast thru-barb is on-center 11" above the top of the step plate.
My deck thru-barb is in the two inches running just in front of the plate. Which inside is just in front of the beam.

And I forgot to allow for the maststep pad. Reassembled the jig with a 2"H block under the step.
No photo. And discovered the duct hose did not need to be longer.
Must assume that when the real stuff is being put together there will be some tweeking.

If you are going to run your cable in hose, I'd guess with your front hinged step you can lower
the mast cable exit to about 6" up from the plate. Leaving the deck fitting as I have it,
you will need some very flexible hose to make the loop when the mast is down. And be hard put to shorten it, I'm only guessing!
And guessing again, you'll most likely be using a smaller diameter hose as well.


You could stuff the hose into the mast without a fitting, like Tim Lackey did.
Saw it on his Triton 381 mast pages, but later went back to confirm and couldn't find it. And his mast
was not the raising kind. Done like that it takes a very satisfactory slant down to the deck fitting.
And a corresponding short piece sanitation hose can be used. Just make sure the mast can drain.


Putting the umbilical hose off the left side of the mast must have seemed natural to me. Is one side better than the other, I wonder?

[mbd]

...You could stuff the hose into the mast without a fitting, like Tim Lackey did.
Saw it on his mast pages, but later went back to confirm and couldn't find it. And his mast
was not the raising kind. Done like that it takes a very satisfactory slant down to the deck fitting.
And a corresponding short piece sanitation hose can be used. Just make sure the mast can drain.

Here you go Ebb:

A thread on the Plastic Classic forum:
http://plasticclassicforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4496

And from the Contessa 26 he redid: http://www.lackeysailing.com/equinox/april09/40609.htm

8536

[carl291]

EBB , why not some type of deck fitting where the loop of wire need for the mast swing when stepping and unstepping would be under the deck and before moving the mast you simply loosen a clamp pull a length of wire above deck for the slack needed for swinging the mast. Even if the deck fitting was just some sort of nipple and butyl tape was stuffed in the hole to seal the wire exit. i think it would beat having a loop of wire exposed on deck.

[ebb]

Mike, thanks for bringing those blue-lines in. The Triton 381 mast stuff is gone.
But we do have a good discussion going HERE on ways to get nav wires to the battery.

Carl, I don't believe in actuality (not tested yet obviosly) that the cable in the transition hose
moves at all in the hose. I don't think it does. Found nothing tugs on the wires/rope when the mockup mast is moved up or down.
Using rope and not cable which is more slippery. Still, all the action seems to be in the movement of the hose.
The turns out of the mast and into the deck will hold the wires in the tube. Proof will be in the pudding.
Maybe a simple clamp, placed in front of the terminal block below can be divised to stop any possibilty of cable being yanked.

Imco supported cables in the mast can make it easy to have a neutral circle/loop/driploop inside the bottom of the mast
befor diving into the hose - without worrying about the wires snagging.
What was said in a post above about the wire moving because the mast is moving is pure paranoid speculation,
(maybe it's speculative paranoia.:p)
The cables do have to be supported so there is no sag on the fixture connectrions.
And it looks like connections to the terminal in the V-berth can be installed almost ready to be pulled up the chute.
Meaning that the cable wires would be disconnected at the terminal and merely pulled up out of the deck. When part of the plan.
THAT IS, after the hose has been declamped and pulled off the barb on the deck. [How that could be done is proposed in post #32.]

Course you have to put up with the damn hose when sailing.

Trip was to figure out if full on waterproofing was possible. Yes.
Then find out if the mast could be dipped without messing with the cables - and that looks possible.
It's a different book when the mast is being decommished for the season - then more deliberate work
has to be done. But in the spring it'll be a piece of cake to put the mast back up with full navs and radio.

And raising the mast by yourself is having cake and eating it too ! ! ! Jerry promised.

[mbd]

I just couldn't believe Tim would DELETE something, so here you go.

:D

v1.0: (1st pic)
http://www.triton381.com/projects/restoration/maststepping.htm

v2.0:
http://www.triton381.com/projects/maintenance/windinstruments.htm

v3.0: (2nd pic from pg 2)
http://www.triton381.com/projects/maintenance/refit2008/april09/41109.htm

[mbd]

Pic: Found the deck end of v2.0

And his interior treatment of the wiring: http://www.triton381.com/projects/smallprojects/smallprojects3.htm

It's ALL here in this Plastic Classic Thread: http://plasticclassicforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4496&hilit=mast+wire+chase

8539

[ebb]

Mike,
well, aye couldn't find it, but then aye'm having problems finding stuff these days.
You're right, it's not Tim's style to delete!

I distinctly recall there was/is also an appalling interior shot of the wires
on the 'wrong side' of the strongback. It would have given anybody
eternal determination to find some way to lead in mast electrics on the forward side of the beam!

Thanks Mike, we're on the road to the finding the BEST way to get those pesky wires to the battery.
Think I'll try to aviod the black anaconda wire treatment.....

How about that roll of wire hanging on the Contessa mast ! ! !
It's an extarordinary amount of weight - and expense.
I'm surprised there isn't yet a no-corrode fiber-optic type electric harness
for our dinky bunch of navigation lights.

Like waiting for lithium boat batteries, and hydrogen fuel cells, when they ought to be here NOW -
at a decent price. In the mean time, back to Thomas Edison.............
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

In the 'king of the world' photo of the kid ( bp2blogger on the plasticclassic blue-line )
that 30 degree fitting coming off the mast looks real shippy and right-on.
Looks like it is a 1" stainless frame fitting - and that weatherable hose can be found to slip on to it. Looks like Trident 1 1/8" pvc sanitation hose.
There is mention of a 90, but I'd guess the guy means there is a straight-thru at 90 to the deck.
There is no way to get cable, and coax never, thru a corner 90.
If you did, you'd be using liquid soap & vile language to pull them out. Imco, if we have a movable mast: a very flexible hose with a generous bend in it has to be factored in. It would be nice to see if that 30 could be used. But, don't think 1" is big enough to be versatile.

It looked to me, when fiddling with the jig at home, that straight-thru barbed fittings were the only way to get the various hose & duct loops to work for A338's masting - when the mast (mock-up) was lowered thru the vertical/horizontal arc.

In fresh water, with an on-deck waterproof junction box , you could have cables & coax terminate in plugs.
Maybe convert a Pelican #1120 case. But offshore in salt, corrosion rules and connections have to be made inside the cabin.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________
Commenting on Mike's pic of the thru-deck fitting, post #30:
This shows why thru-hull fittings are the best for this app - we get to clamp the fitting in its hole and any added fastenings are secondary. It is possible on the larger thru-hull (for example, 1 1/2" Marelon) to drill holes for screws in the mushroom head, and even with some fiddling, also the flange nut. A338 has to dispense with the exterior nut - the mushroom head inside fastened to the backing block and has the screws. In this case the fitting is permanently bedded with polysulfide.
Gotta see what Jerry comes up with.:cool:

[ebb]

Last Sunday's ALBERG FLEET breakfast at the Oakland Grill was a most worthy event.
Company was great, the humor sharp, the food fantastic, Ben Wells turned up, ebb passed around photos of the hose trials.
Talked with a founding club member, who sails engineless up and down the WestCoast,
Canada to Mexico and SanFrancisco Bay. Somebody to closely listen to. ! ! !
- who had this to say about how his harness is connected on deck for his 'masting' operation.
(Have to get a focused look at how he's done it, and maybe get some pics.)

OK, here's the logically simple solution how and where to make the mast harness connections to the interior..........

Do it with the best marine connectors available
IN THE HOSE.
But of course!

He also uses a straight out the mast, 90 degree, thru-fitting - which naturally means a longer hose to make the loop.

Haven't done this yet obviously but see it like this: maybe it's possible to have separate connectors for each circuit in the hose, Only guessing. Single circuit male/female 3or4 pin plugs would be smaller in bulk and could possibily be arranged one above the other, allowing separate cables from each to bypass another plug connector within the 1 1/2"ID hose. Or maybe all navigation lights + the foredeck could be in one multiple pin plug - plus the VHF coax to its own connector. Only wires enter the mast.
Only wires enter the deck and go directly aft to the main panel/battery. No terminal block inside, no on-deck junction box! Amazing!

Moisture inside the mast means eventual corrosion in the hose*. How would you manage access to the connectors?
Loop(s) of extra wire in the mast - and extra wire, available inside the V-berth would make it possible to replace compromised plugs using fresh wire. That seems correct.
MUST have enough slack in the bundle of cables inside the V-berth to be able to pull about 18" of it back out of the deck fitting
to make it possible for the unclamped hose to slide out of the way of connectors - for trouble-shooting - and unplugging the cables. That seems unusual enough ! ! Don't know yet how it's finessed on Mark's Triton. The hose HAS to move to hook things up, and to unhook them things.
The mast stays rigged and vertical while this is happening. System obviously workable for a non-tilting stick.
What better scenario to decommision a mast?

The hose becomes a major contributor in keeping moisture away from the electrics.
A versatile system makes it easy to renew the hose at will.
Would help to find ways to keep rain out of the mast.**

Something like this is being sailed right now.
What will we come up with? Anybody else thinking outside the junction box?
IDEAS ?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
* http://www.wirecare.com/deutsch-connectors.asp?selectedDelimiter=6&Series=HD10
Batts Racing, another purveyor of Deutsch Connectors, has a more informative site with guides & how-to.
We can rent the special crimper.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
** The only real water entry into an A/C mast is up top where the halyard sheaves are. An unmodified original mast sheave is imco a water catcher.
Damp is the culprit.
[Since the mast is 30 feet of hollow aluminum that gets hot in the sun, it should follow that if there was entry for air into the mast bottom
(from hopefully a drier accommodation) and a way for the air to rise and exit out the top, we'd have natural ventilation THRU the mast. Air movement keeps the micro-climate drier inside the mast.]