Ariel and Commander metalwork

[Commander 147]

I have a couple questions for the collective wisdom of everyone here on restoring the metalwork for my commander. When I'm done with her restoration I would really like to install the Commander emblem on the combing so when she is at the dock and people are strolling the dock looking at boats (like I often do) and they see this beautiful boat sitting there but don't know what she is they will be able to figure it out. But both of the emblems are corroded and one of them has a tine broken off of the trident. Also my hull plate is corroded as you can see in the picture below.

What are my options to correct my issues? Ariel 109 (Ben) I know you are really good with metal work. I hope you will chime in but I would also like to hear from anyone with experience restoring these parts.

Can these parts be restored to like new condition? Am I better to have them remade? I need advice.

[ebb]

(that is an old thread here)

Jerry, That is at least one thread in the Forum here that covers this.
I don't know the key word(s). The Search function for the Forum is very picky.

They are available new I think from Bristol Bronze, but not finished.

What you show in your photo looks to me in very good shape.
That's the two pronged Triton spear there, isn't it, on top of the blue peter?
Couldn't you have them plated? Chromed? Nickel would be perfect schmaltz.

Left plain would be cool, but the blue background could be painted in after and clear coated.

I believe some threads also had photos of restored and/or new emblems and builder plates.
Here's a few:
>Commander Name Plates<
> Commander Emblems <
> Name and logo trim piece <
> Pearson Ariel name plate <

What we need in our Search function is for it to pick all these up at the same time.
There are probably more.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
That Pearson logo flag is also found as a burgee, but not 'authentic'.
>flag chick< on ebay features the burgee on the page that came up with a three-prong staff and navy blue,
but she advertises custom - and I think reasonable.
Maybe she could be persuaded to do it correctly???
All the other Pearson yacht owners might appreciate it.
I think the Pearson blue on the plate is called MEDIUM FLAG BLUE

[Commander 147]

Ebb

Thanks as always for your help. The Triton spear is supposed to be 3-pronged (my other one is) but one of the prongs broke off. After work today I will run some searches based on the info in your post to see if I can find the previous info.

Thanks again

[ebb]

Jerry,
Beg to differ.
I have a Pearson Triton burgee on my kitchen wall here, and I'm looking at it.

TWO PRONGS

Same on yer plates.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
DANG! I see what you mean on the builders plate.
But I'm half right, if not half fast: Triton (certainly a 3 in that name) is really a two-pronger!

[Bill]

Search on "logo plate"

Here is what BB reported in 2004:

From Bristol Bronze: "The Commander Logo is in process now. We should have the initial batch of castings in about two weeks. The part number for the Commander logo will be BB0304 and it will sell for the same price as the Ariel logo."

Roger W.
Bristol Bronze
401-625-5224
--------
Note:
Plates are $50 each + $6.50 S&H

PO Box 101
Tiverton, RI 02878
401-625-5224
www.bristolbronze.com

Suggest you use the part number when asking about the plate.

[mbd]

Some threads:
www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?212-Name-and-logo-trim-piece
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1407-Commander-Emblems
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?355-Purchasing-amp-Chroming-Ariel-Nameplate
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?932-Bronze-Fittings-Hardware-source

[Commander 147]

I sent them an e-mail to see if the parts are still available. I'll report back.

Ebb

Here is a picture of both of my logo plates.

You know you would think one would be laid out opposite hand of the other but mine are not. Good thing you can't see both sides of the boat at the same time.

[ebb]

Wouldn't it have been great had Pearson done that!!!

But you could mount the starboard side logo plate
with the face in. You're going to chrome both sides, right?


OR mount the starboard side emblem on the INSIDE of the starboard coaming.
WOW, what an inspiration.:rolleyes:

Of course, you have to be parked at your slip in the correct oogling direction to show off BOTH plates at once.

Somehow I don't think this bit of Pearson bling will make a bit of difference to what you will have when you're finally on parade!!!

[bill@ariel231]

Jerry

if you talk to Roger, please ask him to update his catalog. When i last talked to him i recall he also had the stem fitting for the triton (same as our part) and the Ariel Portlight frames cast from the patterns i made in 2005.

good luck,
bill@ariel231 :)

PS. the 2008 catalog shows the following compatable parts:

BB6204 Commander Logo $105
BB4904 Ariel Logo $90

BB2106 Stem fitting $375

BB3506 Rudder Shoe $385

BB3101 Tiller fitting $215
BB3901 rudder cap $245

[Commander 147]

Mike (Ariel 414)

Somehow I missed your post. Thanks for the links I appreciate it.

Bill

I will call Roger to discuss and let you all know the results.

[Commander 147]

And all of the parts you listed Bill appear to still be available and based on the fact he told me the Commander logo was $105.00 each I think the prices are the same also.

I asked him if he was going to update his catalog soon and he said he had no plans to do it soon.

Roger is very interested in getting any original parts from our boats so he can make castings from those parts. He will return the original to the owner and then he can include these parts in his available listings going forward.

He said he had the large port lite available (I assume for the Ariel) but then he said it was 2 feet by 3 feet which did not make sense to me. I am contemplating sending him one of my fixed port lites so he can make a mold while they are out of the boat.

[Bill]

I am contemplating sending him one of my fixed port lites so he can make a mold while they are out of the boat. Searching the board for port lights, etc., will turn up the following:

The Utah firm, Historical Arts and Castings, has the original Rostand molds for the large port lites, opening ports, tiller fittings and other hardware used in early Pearson yachts.

Historical Arts and Casting, Inc
5580 W Bagley Park Rd
West Jordan, UT 84088
801-280-2400
eden@historicalarts.com

[Lucky Dawg]

Here is a picture of both of my logo plates.

Jerry, I have a matching set! 3 prongs on one and 2 on the other. Sadly, I was there when Prong Number Three snapped off the starboard triton. Tried to reattach it with JB Weld, but it didn't make it through the chroming process.

[bill@ariel231]

Bill

I talked to Historic Arts a couple years back.. they don't have our tiller head fitting. the tiller castings on hand match the Pearson Vanguard (1.25" shaft) and the newer fin keel pearson 26. I ordered the larger fitting as an experiment. it was way too big for the ariel.

i don't know if anyone on the board has tried to chase down a set of portlights and opening ports from them. The on line catalog shows just the opening port.


roger has my molds for the Ariel portlights (if he can't find the patterns on the shelf, they are yellow with green markings indicating the pearsons that use the same part number). He probably has a set of rough castings on the shelf too from when my set was cast. here is a link to the thread:

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1227-Large-Portlights


cheers,
bill@ariel231

[Commander 147]

Jerry, I have a matching set! 3 prongs on one and 2 on the other. Sadly, I was there when Prong Number Three snapped off the starboard triton. Tried to reattach it with JB Weld, but it didn't make it through the chroming process.

Kyle stay tuned. I sent the picture to Roger to make sure what he had matches my originals since his catalog does not show it but does list it. If so I will probably buy 2 new ones from him and have them chromed (or maybe not I might leave them bronze) and I will have the left over 3-pronged one I can send you.

[ebb]

Good to hear Roger W is going strong, and Bristol Bronze still makes things.
The 1" rudder post - TILLER YOKE (BB3101) $215
and - RUDDER HEAD (BB3901) $245
certainly in the catalog drawing on page 29 looks like our oringinal honking tiller head assembly.
Personally think it a very heavy and awkward fitting, but have been interested in getting the rudder head part because the old one on A338 is chewed up.
The keyway is worn (channel sides no longer 90 degrees), the tightening/squeezing bolt area is a mess and imco not designed really to be able to close the nearly 1/6" gap to tighten it around the shaft.
Perhaps the old rudder head has gotten work-hardened over the years and a fairly newer cast one from Bristol would squeeze better? $245 plus shipping:eek:

A worn keyway is a real problem because any looseness or wobble wears the keyway more.
The square key mating the two channels in the head and rudder shaft is doing ALL the work!
The problem may be the key (1/4" 316) which is probably harder than what Bristol used to make the rudder head. The key in the keyway should not move at all.
Not sure if this is solvable.
Do think that customizing the 3/8" hinge bolt so that there are NO threads except for the nut only where the nut tightens is a way to lessen wear and tighten up the hinge parts. The head cannot be drilled out for the next size up bolt.
The tiller yoke/strap bolt has to be shimed somehow (thin bronze and/or delrin washers?) so that wobble here is reduced to zero. Good luck.


All this to ask the board here if anyone got themselves a new rudder head (BB3901) and matched it up with their old tiller yoke (BB3101)?

Is it a match, exact match, for our original rudder head?

I wouldn't want to have to get the whole fitting from Bristol. $455 plus shipping!
and the price list is dated 2008.

[bill@ariel231]

I have seen the part in person. It is a good match dimensionally. The departure from original is that roger through drills the hole for the shaft and keyway vice the blind hole and domed surface of the original

[ebb]

What a calamity!
Don't tell me the keyway is milled all the way to the top too?

Bill, something is jogging in my head....
Is this the fitting (the one that still has a top) that you drilled and tapped in two set screws?

That would be the only way on a thru-drilled head that you could keep the head where it was supposed be. Otherwise it would slip. Unless the keyway had ends. Certainly the keyway in the new shaft on A338 doesn't end in the correct place so the key in the head would HAVE to be captured, and I can't see how that would work.
UNLESS YOU TAP IN TO THE KEY WITH A SET SCREW ?
But with an open top rudder head that alone would NOT keep the head from slipping on the shaft. But might work pretty good in the old one.

Have to add in the screws, only way!
Went and got the head here
and I can see that it will be fairly easy to add a couple set screws.
Sorry about my memory....but larger set screws can easily be put in at 90degrees from the keyway into the rudder shaft. Meaning thru the sides of the fitting.
What size? Bigger the better here, I guess. 3/16 / 1/4" ?

If you put a set screw into the keyway, that would be 1/8"?
Bill, grant me enlightenment, it's not too late!:D

Now I recall you saying that you better remember to back these screws out when taking the head off the shaft!

Since I guess you DID DO THIS, how has it worked out?.... problems?
Thanks, Bill

[bill@ariel231]

it has been about 3 years since i last saw the bristol bronze tillerhead casting. I definitely recall the shaft thru drilled. as for the key way, i think it was also thru but i may be wrong there.

roger does his own machining so you can ask for the keyway any way you like it in a new casting.

as for the set screws.. my shaft key way is 1/4 inch. i put two set screws in the body of the tillerhead i can't remember the size exactly, they look like 1/8th. the set screws bearing down on the key stock definitely took a lot of play out of the tillerhead to shaft connection. I drilled and tapped only the tillerhead, the set screws were installed so as to pressed the key into the keyway on the shaft. i got 8 or 9 years of service with tiller head after i added the set screws before i found one in a consignment shop with less wear.

[Ariel 109]

Jerry,

I'm of a few minds about those coaming name plates. You can easily find a company out there that can restore the original Pearson plates. Plating and polishing can get rid of the pitting. There are plenty of ways to reattach with solder broken parts on pot-metal. I've had work done like this on old motorcycles I've owned. Parts that were pretty rough came out beautiful. But if you had them made out of bronze I'm sure they would stand a better chance of holding up while getting knocked about in a marine environment. I bet the re-plating price will be close to or more than getting new bronze parts from Bristol Bronze. And I'm a fan of patinaed bronze over chrome plating on a sailboat. Lastly, I'm sure most of us are missing those pieces because our Ariel and Commander ancestral owners got sick of taking them off and then back on each time they re-varnished their coamings.

On the builder's plate issue I would leave yours be. It's in pretty good shape for it's age. The enamel is intact. It's your old girl's lucky dog tag.

If anyone has a spare original Pearson builder's plate, any condition from a lost hull I would like one for my Ariel. My plan is to weld over the old number and re-stamp it with 109. Those two bare screw holes, which once held the my boat's builder's plate, in the lazarette bulkhead stare at me when ever I go sailing, kind of like a Steven King story, egads!

[ebb]

Great!
Yes, can see keeping the key immobile and exactly were you want it with TWO.
It's also possible to get the head off with the key under pressure from the screws, without catastrophic damage.
The set screws are hidden in the back under the hinge bolt so it's possible to screw things up.
It's a great failsafe upgrade!

[bill@ariel231]

regarding the builders plate topic... A231's plate was twisted at some point in the past and the blue enamel flaked off. is there a process for restoring the blue enamel or is a fix with blue gelcoat the best path forward??

[Commander 147]

[QUOTE=Ariel 109;23847]On the builder's plate issue I would leave yours be. It's in pretty good shape for it's age. The enamel is intact. It's your old girl's lucky dog tag.
QUOTE]

I sure don't want to mess with lady luck!!!

And the more I thought about it the more I liked the idea of the bronze logo on the dark coamings. I think it would just look better.

Thanks for your input Ben.

[Commander 147]

OK, Kyle if you would like to have the logo that has all 3 prongs on the spear then send me your mailing address and I will send it to you. Roger is sending me 2 new bronze ones in a week or so.

[Lucky Dawg]

That would be great! Thanks a ton.

[ebb]

The Pearson Oval builder's plate that came off A338 is some sort of dull silver pot metal that hasn't corroded in any way I can see. Looks almost crisp and new.
It does NOT have the BluePeter color background and there doesn't seem to be any sign of scraping or wire pad marks.
There is around the letters tiny pits that look like what you'd see if the piece were sandcast and too close to the embossed letters to be buffed away.
It's obviously not pressurecast pot metal.

Across the bottom of the oval it stands embossed as BRISTOL, RHODE ISLAND, U.S.A.
(Trip to the Jersey Shore thread - post 124 - the S-boat oval Herreschoff builder's plate is a dead ringer for the Pearson's. Assume except for size and material, the proportions and lettering exactly the same!)

The drawing in the Bristol Bronze catalog also shows an oval generic builder's plate that has PEARSON across the top
and PORTSMOUTH, RHODE ISLAND, U.S.A.

Assuming Roger has not made any of the Bristol plates, is there any interest in this Forum in having a bronze plate made?
My (assume original) pot metal plate looks in pretty good shape.
I might be persuaded to mail it to Roger
so he can use it as a casting model
IF I get a written promise from him to return it. And a bronze one that I will of course pay for.


Anybody interested in a bronze BRISTOL, RHODE ISLAND builder's plate?
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
I haven't taken the time to read all our posts here or in the archive threads.
I apologize if somebody else has got this going and I missed it.
Would like my Ariel's number stamped in the field of the bronze plate with the same large numbers as my original. May depend on the price Roger wants and a concensus here of what the cost should be for plates buffed and ready to mount with the boat's number stamped.

[Ariel 109]

I thought the builder plates were made from bronze. In the pictures I've seen the exposed metal has a green oxidation. Now I realize it's just the underlying plating of copper that held the chrome to what I believe is an aluminum casting. That complicates a restoration of the glass enamel a little. But there are ways.....

Ebb, I'd love a bronze builder's plate.

[ebb]

Hey Ben, Great!
So I took the plate off the wall where it was hanging on a nail with the 'new' bronze Pearson Ariel logos.

It measures 3 13/16" X 2 5/16" and is about 3/32" thick.
Has a surprising heft to it, definitely could be bronze. But under the kitchen lights
it is a glitzy silvery colior, with even more of the sand casting marks.
Would make a better belt buckle than a real builder's plate!

Put a couple new bats in the gram scale and it weighs in at 3oz.
So it has to be some sort of exotic lead/silver/something alloy rather than the usual zinc/aluminum/whatever like old diecast car door handles were made with.

It certainly LOOKS acceptable. Has four small scratches.
The boat's number is banged in - slightly crooked - with 3/16" numbers.
Can see the effect of the punching on the backside of the plate which overall shows the mini-pores of sandcasting.

Certainly has more going for it than the plastic plate that Roger says in the catalog he used as mold for his PORTSMOUTH plates.

Haven't called Roger yet. He may have these BRISTOL plates in stock, but never made it to his catalog.
The A338 plate would reproduce in bronze a more authentic looking plate imco.
And naturally, being cast by Roger, will be authentic!!!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________
By the way this plate is made for glass enameling. There is a raised border around the perimeter,
around the two mounting holes, all the lettering is raised, and so is the 'field' where the numbers are stamped.
In plain bronze with a jewel-like medium blue it'll sparkle like a sapphire on a ring in the cockpit.
Might want to bang in the numbers before the plate goes into the oven to have the glass melted.
Now THAT'S bling!

[bill@ariel231]

A-231's plate is also missing the blue background and is clean enough to pull a mould. i am in roger's backyard. ebb, if you want to make contact with roger on a bristol ri old school pattern i can act as clerk of the works and offer A-231's plate as a sample (of course, i will also want to get my original plate back!)

Another good option is Mystic River Foundry...

[ebb]

! ! ! My bloody plate is BRONZE... ! ! ! .
It was the cheap looking silver color on it that threw this fool off.

Took a dremel carbide bit to the backside and ground into the bronze.

Whatever the thin plating on the bronze I don't think it can be removed
so I'd still be interested in a plain bronze copy. And have it glass enameled.
My theme for bronze on the boat is to let it all go brown or green.
What's that called: funky chic?

It is a NICE casting.
And I just know that somebody will point out that the silvery plating will compliment the glass enameling, because silver (or maybe it's nickle) makes a better mirror effect than a copper color would!

[mbd]

Bronze looks great! (IMHO) :)

http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=3365&stc=1&d=1150080077

[ebb]

THAT is Fantastic. Next to that varnish, couldn't ask for anything better.
That is what patina on bronze is all about.
To hell with the chintzy glass:p

[Ariel 109]

! ! ! My bloody plate is BRONZE... ! ! ! .
It was the cheap looking silver color on it that threw this fool off.

My theme for bronze on the boat is to let it all go brown or green.
What's that called: funky chic?



Well that's a relief, bronze is easy to enamel. Let's see how Paul's Commander #5 plate comes out before I begin churning out re-enameled Pearson Builder's plates.

Funky chic, hmm. Don't forget shabby chic and cracker barrel.

[Commander 147]

THAT is Fantastic. Next to that varnish, couldn't ask for anything better.
That is what patina on bronze is all about.
To hell with the chintzy glass:p

That is the image I had in my mind for the Commander logo being bronze instead of chrome plated. And that I think looks great.

[Rico]

My Plater touched-up my hull number plate a few years ago:
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=5762&stc=1&d=1239813258



More details at the begining of the thread here:
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1552-Commander-155-Mephisto-Cat

These old metal pieces come back very nicely. As I recall, he did a very light plating on it, followed by a light polish. This brightened the metal & cleaned the enamel nicely. It is shiny & bright blue still, as is the rest of the stuff he plated...

Ebb... To add a bit of clarity to the above discussion on 2 & 3 prong triton designs - the Pearson Triton does have a 2-pronged triton design as a class logo, but this is quite different than the proper 'Neptune's' triton used both on the Pearson logo and on the Ariel / Commander logo design.

I do not have the Commander logo shiny bits on C-155, (very sad!) and the coambings show no evidence that they were ever present on this boat.

[Commander 147]

Rico

I thought I remembered your hull plate being new looking (like everything else on the Mephisto Cat) from another post on your gallery pages. Your's is the only one I know of in like new condition. Like every other trade there are good platers and some not so good. You must have found a good one.

[bill@ariel231]

Rico

a question.. did you rechrome your builders plate with the enamel in place?

is there a prefered order for a recreation of the original builders plate? plate then enamel or enamel then plate??

thanks
bill@ariel231:confused:

[ebb]

The plating process requires nasty alkali and acid cleaning/prepping chemicals the EPA doesn't approve of, and get nasty about.
So there are very few plating outfits around. Especially in California.
Years ago I had some bolts and nuts chromed. I think there's like 5 or 6 steps to the process.
Steps requiring copper and nickel layers to be flashed on the steel.

Took them to a mom and pop called Carrera Plating (Santa Rosa Plating Works)
where the result was truly impressive. Can't remember the $$$.
How do you plate threaded pieces and have them able to turn?
(They're still in the phone book, 2011)
Plating bronze is probably a simpler process than chroming steel, BUT

I echo the question: how can you plate the metal with enamel or even glass enamel on the piece?

Chrome is not the way to go with our builder's plate, it probably would be nickel.
Which I now believe is the silver metal "flashed" on the bronze A338 plate.
Imco if it was finished it would be thicker looking and have more oomph.
Nickel won't corrode, but will patina depending on what the nickel is alloyed with.

[There is an 'electroless' process (the work is not placed in an electrolyte) that can deposit nickel on any surface, wiki has a description.
Maybe that's how Tony had his plate renovated? The exposed metal would still have to go through a base and acid cleaning]

[Ariel 109]

Bill, I think the process is plating after enameling. The enameling oven's heat would damage a thin layer of metal plating. There are some pretty good do it yourself plating clips on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0xFlIQ9MhQ

[Commander 147]

That would be great!

Kyle, I have the logo plate ready to go out but I really want to see the ones that Roger ships me before I send it. Roger does not even have a picture of the ones he sells so I feel a little nervous about sending my old one off until I see the new ones. Hope you don't mind.

[Lucky Dawg]

Anytime in the next 6 months :) No prob. If you don't mind though, I'll delete my address - those google / yahoo data crawlers that frequent this site make me nervous.

[Commander 147]

Please do so. I have it so it no longer needs to be there. You can send me an e-mail through this forum and when I get it I can send you one so you have my e-mail address. That way we don't need to share those here either. I will delete your address from the quote in my post also.

[Ariel 109]

Here's a shot of the builder's plate from Paul's Commander #5 that I'm attempting to re-enamel. I removed the enamel by heating the plate with a gas torch then cooling it rapidly in a bucket of cold water, that removed most of the old cracked enamel. Bead blasting remove what remained and gave the plate a nice finish.

I'm going to get a silicone rubber mold made of the plate and have a bronze replica made for my boat, with the number blanked out, so I can punch my hull number #109. If there's a demand I can get some more produced, let's see.

Ben

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/Parlordoor/IMG_0508.jpg

[Rico]

Rico

a question.. did you rechrome your builders plate with the enamel in place?

is there a prefered order for a recreation of the original builders plate? plate then enamel or enamel then plate??

thanks
bill@ariel231:confused:

Hi Bill,
(Sorry it took me a while to reply - I somehow missed your question)

I re-chromed the original plate, and YES, the plater did it with the original enamel in place. It was not cracked and it remained in good shape through the plating process which involves some nasty chemicals & processes. I do not know the specific technique he used, He told me very confidently that he'd done similar things before and said he'd take care of it... He did.

The enamel on C-155's plate has not been renewed apart form a nice polishing...

- I magine that if you were producing a new one, you'd plate the new bronze plaque and THEN add the enamel... But I've never done anything like this so I am only speculating.

BEN: Beautiful plate you have there - nice work! (pretty number font too!)

Note: I seem to always refer to plaring as 'Chroming'; as a generic term simply out of habit. - As far as I understand, and to be clear technically, I should say that I believe that all my metals have been in fact Nickel-plated.

[Ariel 109]

Got back the new builder's plate that I had cast from a mold made from Paul's Commander #5 plate. Still need to clean up with a file, bead-blast and punch in my 109 hull number. Then off to attempting the enameling on both Paul's plate and mine.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/Parlordoor/IMG_0562.jpg

Here's what half of the rubber mold looks like.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/Parlordoor/IMG_0563.jpg

[paulsproesser]

Ben I'm glad you found a way to get your bristol hull plate and I'm honored you used mine for a template . I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the next step with you, you are a crafty fellow for certain and I wonder if anyone knows which was the last hull # to be produced in the old hereshoff plant?

[Ariel 109]

Thanks Paul! Purchased the ultramarine blue enamel powder from a jewelry supply house in Midtown Manhattan, so I'm almost ready to light up the oven. Just need to find some time in this week's busy schedule.

Ben

[Ariel 109]

Here are the two builder's plates ready to be enameled. Paul's original #5 plate looks to be made out of copper and my copy #109 plate is made out of bronze. I found it kind of intimidating to punch those stamps into my new plate. I was sure I would mess up but everything worked out.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/Parlordoor/IMG_0579.jpg

[ebb]

Ben, PLEASE give us a couple shots of how it's done, not just the results,
which I'm sure will be fantastic. What kind of beads, what blaster, do you have it done?
The piling of the powder. The open door of the oven. "Welcome my little plum.."
What the plate is put on get bronze even heat all over. I don know but stuff like that.
I think ther'll be some interest in how it's done!!!

[Commander 147]

Ben

I'm really interested in seeing the end result. Watching the process is fun but seeing the end result will make it worth the wait. Especially since it appears you are doing all of the steps very well so far.

So if I'm following this correctly you will do the enamel next and then the plating. Is that correct?

[mbd]

Why cover them up?? You can stop right now with perfection - those are freaking gorgeous!!!

[Ariel 109]

Went in early this morning to attempt the enameling of the builder's plates. Here's a picture of Paul's Commander #5 plate just out of the kiln. The next step at this point would be to get it chrome plated. But I really like it's present patina, not too sure it would look better buffed out. Not a fan of chrome plating on sailboats, it seems like it just doesn't last very long in the marine environment.

The bronze #109 plate didn't take the enamel, cracked off while cooling. I need to get another formulation of enamel or cast a plate in copper. We will see.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/Parlordoor/IMG_0581.jpg

[Commander 147]

Ben

Does the enamel come out of the oven that smooth or does it have to be buffed after it comes out?

[Ariel 109]

Jerry, it is that smooth right out of the kiln.

It's a pretty interesting process, when I get some time I will describe the whole method.

Ben

[paulsproesser]

Ben, my observation from dealing with brazing of different metals is that copper relenquishes heat faster than bronze or brass it may be as simple as leaving it to completely cool in the oven slowly or it may require an acid prewash or some type of bonding agent , I'm confident you'll get it figured out and great job on my plate thanks again and yours is beutiful in bronze so if you have to make a copper one keep the bronze one and mount it in another place, down below or something thats what I'll be doing with the portsmouth plate I have and I'm looking into having my plate nickel plated would prefer gold but dont think i could afford it.

[Ariel 109]

Thanks, Paul. I will mail out your builder's plate on Monday.

I have learned that bronze is not easiest metal to enamel. Getting another plate cast in copper is what I'm going to do.