Trex decking and Mark Parker's Triton 'All Ways' #516

[ebb]

Well our Search feature doesn't pick this up. No surprise.
But years ago we posted a thread on this decking subject.
Mark Parker, an ER doctor and sailboat craftsman parexcellance, covered his Triton's core rotten deck with Trex - a composite wood and polyethylene (plastic Teak) material.

His method was quite unique and well written.
http://www.tritonclass.org/mir/PARKERDECK.htm
is still available.
The article appeared in GoodOldBoat Jan2001.

The reason why I'm mentioning this is that the good doctor did a year's test on the material to see if it would hold up. And it seemed to. He laid down the material in a traditional teak deck pattern - nibbed ends and king plank - which obviously took extraordinary time and care to do.

A class action suit against TREX has appeared on the net - can't find a date - that details the material's failure to live up to its 25 year life expectancy. In fact the material has discolored and begun falling apart in less than a year for some customers.


A recycled wood dust and plastic bottle composite is certainly a fine ethical choice for decking an old glass boat.


I wonder if anybody knows what happened with MARK PARKER's deck on ALL WAYS?


I was thinking of using such a material on the cabin sole
and on the cockpit deck.
(Have a feeling that adding even an 1/8" thick teak suibstitute to an Ariel deck would add too much weight - and haven't considered that.)
Am interested in whether TREX has worked well for other users???

[Tony G]

Ebb,

I've tried in vain to reach Mark Parker several times and several ways regarding All Ways toe-rails. All to no avail. Even tracked him to Placecia down in Belize.

There are two different spots out here that I've been able to see trex in action. One site is an elevated walkway on the North side of a building well protected from any sunlight by trees. The other is a South of the house deck with virtually no shade, an over-filled hot tub and a spastic 80lb. labrador with long nails and short attention.

The walkway gets shoveled regularly in the winter and has no real scratches to speak of (yes, I look at it everytime I'm there wondering where it can go on the boat). It also never seems as 'slick' as typical wood decking under those soggy fall leaves.

The sun deck gets no care what so ever. Maybe a sweep once or twice in the fall. I can't see any real discernable deterioration as a result of the sun but it does have some dings from moving furniture around and a few minor groves from 'Matties' nails.

Do you really think there is that much of a difference between an Ariel and a Triton as far as weight handling ability?:confused: You're scaring me...

[ebb]

Don't know if West Coast (fiberglass decks and fiberglass coamings and East Coast plywood composite and wood coamings - I think that's correct) Tritons are weight comparable as there must have been a difference between them. Tritons are bigger boats and deeper keeled than Ariels.
The type of boat, cutaway but full keel, lead ballast, slack bilges... evidently forgives extra weight with less penalty than modern boats. I'm sure I don't know.
Weight has always a price to pay.

TREX has had a bad name for having a problem with mold. "Green" composites with reclaimed polyethylene and wood don't rate as well as plastic lumber without wood flour, dust, cellulose, whatever. See if you can google:
How Green Is It? Composite Lumber for Consumer & Residential Applications
The paper rates some 50 plastic lumber products! The rating is not marine specific but gives some idea how the products compare without dealing with online forums.
My feeling is that an ALL polyethylene plastic lumber (Bearboard, PlasTEAK, Permadeck) will not be glue-able. Trex, Geodeck, Fiberon, Veranda (the ones with wood fiber) do allow gluing.
But the price you pay is that the material may want to separate under certain conditions. On forums TREX is on the bottom of everybody's list.

Conversely 100% plastic wood substitute cannot be used for decking on a boat - because it can't be glued. And if it can't be glued it can't be thin section - as in the MarkParker opus.

[mbd]

Sorry if this isn't exactly on topic here, but I ran across this recently and it seemed sort of relevant. sort of. This guy redid a Typhoon and said "all of the trim is TREX". Lookslike he just finished, so we can't know how well it'll hold up.

Cape Dory forum:
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=24025

His link on the Renegade Cruisers forum:
http://76.162.31.52/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13578&sid=430a3a00ac0af102b38258f40049a380

His photo album:
http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/sovereigndiver/Cape%20Dory%20Typhoon%20Weekender/

Pics from the album:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/sovereigndiver/Cape%20Dory%20Typhoon%20Weekender/NewBoomSheet.jpg

And...

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/sovereigndiver/Cape%20Dory%20Typhoon%20Weekender/8Augstarboardstern.jpg

[ebb]

Mike,
I have this warm feeling that all is right with the world
when these guys work on their (All burger) boats and make them pretty again.
And of course talk about them and post their rewards.


And that plastic wood does look good!
And we have to assume that Trex finally got their ingredients together.
(lettuce, tomato, sesame bun, mayo, mustard, ketchup and pickle.):p:p
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________
TREX
google> Trex Company, Inc - Company History
www.fundinguniverse.com.../Trex-Company-Inc-Company-History.html

A fascinating story about a non-environmentalist recycling bread out of Nevada landfill sites for chicken feed needs to find something to do with the plastic sacks the bread comes in - gets this idea and melts the bags with wood waste from cabinet shops and extrudes the first Trex. Then $ells the company to MOBIL!
Don't ask what's in your eggs.

Wonder if Renegade Don, or any of us, are aware of where this stuff originates. Not knocking it - as it is vastly to be preferred than using lumber from dwindling rain forests.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
From the bling standpoint I wonder if anybody varnishes this TREX?
Since the wood fibers are not totally encapsulated in plastic deterioration is a problem. Be great if one of the two part varnishes could be used - not only for looks but protection.

[ebb]

Can't resist this:
A new biodegradable cutlery has appeared at the deli where I get my soup and salad. It's made of potato starch and soy oil. (SpudWare, VegWare) Has a nice beige color - looks like a new kind of plastic but is more sturdy than the styrene stuff was.


So is it out of the question that another entrepeneur won't come along and offer cockpit coamings made out of potato chips and plastic bags?:D

[mbd]

I ran across an article here on EpoxyWorks.com (http://www.epoxyworks.com) under "Epoxy Techniques & Materials" called Gluing plastic dimensional lumber (http://www.epoxyworks.com/16/glueinglumber.html)

PDF Document here:
http://www.epoxyworks.com/16/pdf/GluingLumber.pdf

PS. Ebb, I'm afraid you're going to have to try and read past the West System plugs throughout. :o

[ebb]

That's a goodun, Mike!
Any brand epoxy ought to do the trick.
Interesting that 'burning' the surface with a torch gets your best adhesion.

Would think that fresh milled or sanded TREX would expose lots of wood fiber for glue to stick to also. Thinking that melted polyethylene when manufactured isn't going to soak into wood dust too well.
The other 50/50 composite product called SmartDeck is evidently made with OAK dust. The West System epoxy failed at the interface - which is not surprising considering that tannins cause - can cause - any epoxy glue failure - like in laminations (Ebb please read..).

Polysulfide should work for a black caulk line.
Two part as well - miserable stuff to work with!
And that newage silicon/urethane hybrid (LifeSeal) as well.
We did a thing here on Bostick hybrids being used for these synthetic decks.

It's the 100% polyethylene lumber (like Starboard) that can't be glued
- with one very expensive 3M exception.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
google> Synthetic teak deck - Boat Design Forums
lively Go-Round on the PVC/Vinyl (all plastic) deck coverings: TekDek, NuTeek, Flexiteek, PlasTeak, PlasDeck
Some of these have different websites with the exact same words on their Home pages.
It's also the wrong kind of people involved. Big bad petroleum.
Interesting that two CORK companies pop up in the fray: Seacork and Marinedeck. They don't get hot in the sun like the vinyl stuff and add insulation . They are lighter in weight and probably do a better job at anti-slip. They also don't look like cheapo flooring. The strips look exactly like cork. These are both controlled substances in the US and can only be installed on megayachts by professionals.

All of these paste-on marine flooring is really EXPENSIVE.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
IPE is the all wood upscale decking of choice these days. The stuff is heavy and hard and if dried properly loves to sit in the sun with minimum surface cracking. Someone should slice it into thin strips and glue it up for a deck.
It's not a teak substitute. It gets a nice mild grey tone over its dark color when aged. Doesn't gray out entirely like teak It's twice as dense and doesn't need any dressing.

I've been using Meranti Hydrotek marine panels in Little Gull's interior.
I started with the usual 1/2" plly (one stub bulkhead) - quickly went to 3/8s for what I thought was structural - went from that to1/4" and now to 1/8".
The panel material is awesome. All panel and cleat sections in an Ariel interior are pretty small areas. Panels can be skinnied down to nothing and still be plenty strong.
Can easily imagine cutting strips of 1/8" Hydrotek and gluing it down for the cabin sole and the cockpit. You couldn't sand it if you caulked with goop, but you could come up with a satisfying narrow strip for the stripes - like 1/8" thick maple 'planks' are available from Constantines. The veneers on the 1/8" mahogany look more substantial that what you'd find on 1/4" teak veneer deck ply, so the meranti would take 'light' sanding. Gorgeous mahogany color when sealed. Gonna ruminate on this inexpensive option.

[ebb]

Jamestown:

cork - 74"L X 1 1/2"W X 3/8"H = $46.40.

teak - 72"L X 1 3/4"W X 5/6"H = $24.35.

plus UPS
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
TREX,
The question still is will it stand up over time as a decking material in such a thin section?
And how does its weight compare with cork and teak decking?
Dr Mark put 1/8" thick Trex on his deck. With all epoxy - how has that lasted?. My guess is the weight compares quite well with the cork.

Can't imagine that I will ever buy Marinedeck 2000.
Not even for coamings.:rolleyes:
imco

Trex - 72"L X 1 1/2"W X 1/4"H = ?